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Don't sell VVD to Liverpool


SaintPete

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I've not been on Saints Web for a fair while, so apologies in advance if this has been covered many times before. I wanted to say something before (what seems like) the inevitable happens ...

 

I've not been following the transfer speculation up until now, but I see today that Liverpool are odds on favourites to sign VVD. Can we as fans have a say in stopping this from happening? I understand that we might struggle to keep hold of a player of VVD's quality but it would be an absolute farce that we would sell yet another player to Liverpool and our best player to them two years in a row.

 

I can't recall any club ever selling as many players to the same side (and in the same division to boot). This constant selling of our players to Liverpool is turning us from a well respected team into a laughing stock and it is miserable to see as a fan. In my humble opinion, if the board even countenance selling VVD to Liverpool it shows a complete contempt for the fans.

 

Last season we finished above Liverpool and yet couldn't wait to sell them our best player, hastily in a cut price deal while we didn't have a manager to complain. Why strengthen your rivals (at the time) while weakening yourselves? Even this season Liverpool have looked decidedly average without (their player of the season) Mane.

 

What's the point in supporting a team if you're just acting as a feeder team for another club in the same division? A club who openly mocked us for selling them some players a few seasons ago.

 

Enough is enough, I say we vote with our feet and threaten a walk out if VVD ends up at Liverpool this or any season.

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Don't sell him to anyone

 

Whilst I do agree with you, I think the attraction for good players is to play at the top level (and for a lot more money). I would be pleased if he stays but I doubt he will.

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I've not been on Saints Web for a fair while, so apologies in advance if this has been covered many times before. I wanted to say something before (what seems like) the inevitable happens ...

 

I've not been following the transfer speculation up until now, but I see today that Liverpool are odds on favourites to sign VVD. Can we as fans have a say in stopping this from happening? I understand that we might struggle to keep hold of a player of VVD's quality but it would be an absolute farce that we would sell yet another player to Liverpool and our best player to them two years in a row.

 

I can't recall any club ever selling as many players to the same side (and in the same division to boot). This constant selling of our players to Liverpool is turning us from a well respected team into a laughing stock and it is miserable to see as a fan. In my humble opinion, if the board even countenance selling VVD to Liverpool it shows a complete contempt for the fans.

 

Last season we finished above Liverpool and yet couldn't wait to sell them our best player, hastily in a cut price deal while we didn't have a manager to complain. Why strengthen your rivals (at the time) while weakening yourselves? Even this season Liverpool have looked decidedly average without (their player of the season) Mane.

 

What's the point in supporting a team if you're just acting as a feeder team for another club in the same division? A club who openly mocked us for selling them some players a few seasons ago.

 

Enough is enough, I say we vote with our feet and threaten a walk out if VVD ends up at Liverpool this or any season.

 

From a moral point of view you are absolutely right, however, there are no morals in football or loyalty anymore. Yes we have a contract with players, but all this amounts to is that the club are guaranteed a fee for that player should a bigger richer club wish to purchase him. There is no point in making him play out his contract, as he will either hand in a transfer request or refuse to play, either way it just would not work; the so called fair play scheme bought in by the F.A. is probably the most unfair system ever dreamed up by anyone. Put yourself in the same position in your own job, a competitor head hunts you and tells you that they will double your salary, what would you do? Of course you would, the only way to stem this would be a salary cap based on what the bottom ten in the premiership can afford, it won't happen, so I am afraid that as soon as we get some good players in the team, bring them on and make them great players then one of the top six will buy them, sorry but we are stuck with it, so the top six will remain the top six for a very long time assisted by the fair play system, and before you all shout Leicester City, yes one offs can and will happen in sport, just like Foinhaven in the national at 100/1

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From a moral point of view you are absolutely right, however, there are no morals in football or loyalty anymore. Yes we have a contract with players, but all this amounts to is that the club are guaranteed a fee for that player should a bigger richer club wish to purchase him. There is no point in making him play out his contract, as he will either hand in a transfer request or refuse to play, either way it just would not work; the so called fair play scheme bought in by the F.A. is probably the most unfair system ever dreamed up by anyone. Put yourself in the same position in your own job, a competitor head hunts you and tells you that they will double your salary, what would you do? Of course you would, the only way to stem this would be a salary cap based on what the bottom ten in the premiership can afford, it won't happen, so I am afraid that as soon as we get some good players in the team, bring them on and make them great players then one of the top six will buy them, sorry but we are stuck with it, so the top six will remain the top six for a very long time assisted by the fair play system, and before you all shout Leicester City, yes one offs can and will happen in sport, just like Foinhaven in the national at 100/1

 

I understand all of this, however we do have a choice in not selling him to Liverpool. I would be very surprised if much bigger clubs than Liverpool aren't interested in VVD and also be surprised if Liverpool are the height of VVD's ambitions anyway. Don't sell to Liverpool!

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VVD has the look of a player who will move elsewhere if not this summer, then next. I don't particularly hate Liverpool for constantly coming in for our players but it has happened so often, it's getting a little embarrassing and all the stupid jokes on social media about it are tiresome. In VVD's case, if they don't get him, someone else will. Just from trolling other forums, Liverpool fans seem more desperate to get him than others.

 

When they nabbed Lambert it really irritated me because they had no real need for him and he wasted away the season on the bench.

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I find it odd that he'd end up there when so many are interested. I'd imagine the majority of big clubs to be interested if they have the money. Far rather he went to Chelsea, City, Barcelona, Madrid etc. He's good enough for anyone, just frustrating to see players at Liverpool. Be even more angry if they get him for a good price. If there's competition for him, he should be going for a big, big price. People talked about Mane and a fair price as if we should have been giving Liverpool a fair price! If you don't want to sell and the player is under contract, it should take a silly bid to get them. Fck doing any clubs a favour with this one.

 

Still, if and when he does go, along with Rodriguez no doubt, we can surely hand the new manager an £75m transfer budget.

 

I supposed it'll be like Mane. Liverpool will get him if none of the super-powers want him.

 

£50m is still a very good price.

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He might want to go but the club does not have to sell him.

With 5 years left on his contract we can make him stay one more year at least.

 

This

 

I understand all of this, however we do have a choice in not selling him to Liverpool. I would be very surprised if much bigger clubs than Liverpool aren't interested in VVD and also be surprised if Liverpool are the height of VVD's ambitions anyway. Don't sell to Liverpool!

 

And this

 

I find it odd that he'd end up there when so many are interested. I'd imagine the majority of big clubs to be interested if they have the money. Far rather he went to Chelsea, City, Barcelona, Madrid etc. He's good enough for anyone, just frustrating to see players at Liverpool. Be even more angry if they get him for a good price. If there's competition for him, he should be going for a big, big price. People talked about Mane and a fair price as if we should have been giving Liverpool a fair price! If you don't want to sell and the player is under contract, it should take a silly bid to get them. Fck doing any clubs a favour with this one.

 

Still, if and when he does go, along with Rodriguez no doubt, we can surely hand the new manager an £75m transfer budget.

 

Stuff £75m. He is under contract for 5 years. He can hand in as many transfer requests as he likes, if what ever price is asked isn't met - up front - he doesn't go anywhere. Go on strike? Don't get paid, don't play, lose your way in world football.

 

For me, anything less than £100m - all up front - is a no go. And even then, NOT TO FEKIN' LIVERPOOL!!!!!!

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He might want to go but the club does not have to sell him.

With 5 years left on his contract we can make him stay one more year at least.

 

Strictly speaking, we can make him stay another 5 years.

 

Relax anyway, Ralph has already said there'll be no firesale this Summer.

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Would be severely ****ed off if we sold him there. Or anyone else for that matter, it has gone beyond a joke. Scouse transfer embargo please.

 

I'm afraid to say it will be one of the biggest scandals in world football but one day the truth will come out that Les Reed has been on the Anfield pay roll all along. It makes a lot of sense when you think about it.

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I'm afraid to say it will be one of the biggest scandals in world football but one day the truth will come out that Les Reed has been on the Anfield pay roll all along. It makes a lot of sense when you think about it.

 

I hope your tongue was firmly in your cheek.

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VVD could go to one of the more currently successful clubs in European football right now but Liverpool remain one of the biggest clubs in the world, regardless of their lack of success in recent times. This is a reality that some clearly need to grasp. Liverpool play world tours where thousands turn up, they get big sponsorship deals etc. I know people still think the world begins and ends on the shores of Britain but the world sees things differently.

 

We just need to make sure we get a minimum of £50m for him when we sell him to enable us to get a couple of other players in.

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:hunt::hunt:

I'm afraid to say it will be one of the biggest scandals in world football but one day the truth will come out that Les Reed has been on the Anfield pay roll all along. It makes a lot of sense when you think about it.

Careful now, one of the many conspiracy theory minded posters amongst us could get all worked up at such a notion

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I'm afraid to say it will be one of the biggest scandals in world football but one day the truth will come out that Les Reed has been on the Anfield pay roll all along. It makes a lot of sense when you think about it.

 

I can imagine it now.."sell us VVD and we will let you win the cup semi final"...

 

If Jose hadn't hated Shaw perhaps they would have let us win the final!

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I think you will find that the player will go where the player wants to go. Players employ agents for vast sums of money to get them the move that they want. If VVD wants to go to Liverpool, he probably will. We could hold him to contact, but that rarely works out very well if the player wants out, so is not really a desirable strategy - it sucks but that's the way it is. Our only card is the length of contract, but that is simply a price bargaining tool. Think he could do a lot better than Liverpool, and whilst you're sick of them, Celtic fans are probably sick of us, but it's just the way the games hierarchy works.

 

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VVD could go to one of the more currently successful clubs in European football right now but Liverpool remain one of the biggest clubs in the world, regardless of their lack of success in recent times. This is a reality that some clearly need to grasp. Liverpool play world tours where thousands turn up, they get big sponsorship deals etc. I know people still think the world begins and ends on the shores of Britain but the world sees things differently.

 

We just need to make sure we get a minimum of £50m for him when we sell him to enable us to get a couple of other players in.

 

They don't pay the wages that Man U, Man City and Chelsea pay.

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I think you will find that the player will go where the player wants to go. Players employ agents for vast sums of money to get them the move that they want. If VVD wants to go to Liverpool, he probably will. We could hold him to contact, but that rarely works out very well if the player wants out, so is not really a desirable strategy - it sucks but that's the way it is. Our only card is the length of contract, but that is simply a price bargaining tool. Think he could do a lot better than Liverpool, and whilst you're sick of them, Celtic fans are probably sick of us, but it's just the way the games hierarchy works.

 

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How come Man Utd and Liverpool NEVER sell to each other then if it is down to the player only?

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How come Man Utd and Liverpool NEVER sell to each other then if it is down to the player only?

We are not in that league, perhaps when we get there, our players will show the same sort of loyalty, but I fear that is a long time off and won't be in my lifetime. At present our players will go to any of the top clubs that want them. I don't like it, but that is the way it is.

 

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This constant selling of our players to Liverpool is turning us from a well respected team into a laughing stock

 

No. Its not. Its really, really not. Third party opinion of the saints is actually very good. We are not a "laughing stock" for selling players (at very good prices) to anyone. All clubs buy and sell. We are in the second tier of the food chain. We sell (mainly good players to clubs above us, off-load to clubs below) and buy (mainly good players from clubs below us). Just like every other club.

 

We are not a laughing stock. Honest.

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I'm afraid to say it will be one of the biggest scandals in world football but one day the truth will come out that Les Reed has been on the Anfield pay roll all along. It makes a lot of sense when you think about it.

 

Blimey that's a hell of an allegation.

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No. Its not. Its really, really not. Third party opinion of the saints is actually very good. We are not a "laughing stock" for selling players (at very good prices) to anyone. All clubs buy and sell. We are in the second tier of the food chain. We sell (mainly good players to clubs above us, off-load to clubs below) and buy (mainly good players from clubs below us). Just like every other club.

 

We are not a laughing stock. Honest.

Exactly, I'm surprised that anybody sees it any other way.

 

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When he goes we should be looking to get the best return we can, so if that is from Liverpool, so what? He will not be our player anymore so why fret? We need to start looking at the bigger picture. We are a football club, not a sad loser who behaves like he keeps losing girlfriends to the same bloke. F*ck em. So long as they keep shovelling money our way lets keep knocking them out of cup semi finals and talking the p*ss out of them for being our B team.

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I think you will find that the player will go where the player wants to go. Players employ agents for vast sums of money to get them the move that they want. If VVD wants to go to Liverpool, he probably will. We could hold him to contact, but that rarely works out very well if the player wants out, so is not really a desirable strategy - it sucks but that's the way it is. Our only card is the length of contract, but that is simply a price bargaining tool. Think he could do a lot better than Liverpool, and whilst you're sick of them, Celtic fans are probably sick of us, but it's just the way the games hierarchy works.

 

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You need to call Man City and explain that to them!

 

http://www.skysports.com/football/news/11679/10900569/man-city-fear-chelsea-and-liverpool-will-drive-price-up-for-virgil-van-dijk

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What needs explaining, the simple fact of the matter is the player basically hold all the cards. He will go and play for whoever he wants to. When you have this level of club vying for your services he can simply pick and choose and tell his agent to do the deal. Other clubs will obviously try to sway him one way or the other, but ultimately he will decide. Vvd will play for whoever VVD wants to play for. Simple.

 

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What needs explaining, the simple fact of the matter is the player basically hold all the cards. He will go and play for whoever he wants to. When you have this level of club vying for your services he can simply pick and choose and tell his agent to do the deal. Other clubs will obviously try to sway him one way or the other, but ultimately he will decide. Vvd will play for whoever VVD wants to play for. Simple.

 

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That is largely true, but still, law of contract still applies.

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What needs explaining, the simple fact of the matter is the player basically hold all the cards. He will go and play for whoever he wants to. When you have this level of club vying for your services he can simply pick and choose and tell his agent to do the deal. Other clubs will obviously try to sway him one way or the other, but ultimately he will decide. Vvd will play for whoever VVD wants to play for. Simple.

 

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So, if he wants to go and play for, say, Wigan next season he will?

 

The player does not hold all the cards. If Chelsea and Man City meet our 70m valuation but the Scousers will only stump up 45m, he won't be going to Liverpool.

 

Heck, we COULD simply say, 'no, we are not going to sell you this summer.' Yes, he could 'threaten to go on strike'; in return we don't pay him any salary. He could sit and rot for months. We have been paying him but not playing him for months already, we could do the same and save on his wages (if he goes on strike/refuses to play). He wouldn't do that, so we wouldn't have to; but we COULD.

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So, if he wants to go and play for, say, Wigan next season he will?

 

The player does not hold all the cards. If Chelsea and Man City meet our 70m valuation but the Scousers will only stump up 45m, he won't be going to Liverpool.

 

Heck, we COULD simply say, 'no, we are not going to sell you this summer.' Yes, he could 'threaten to go on strike'; in return we don't pay him any salary. He could sit and rot for months. We have been paying him but not playing him for months already, we could do the same and save on his wages (if he goes on strike/refuses to play). He wouldn't do that, so we wouldn't have to; but we COULD.

I knew somebody would come up with the "Wigan" analygy, but let's not bother with the totally unrealistic. I'm not bothered who he goes and plays for, but in the company of elite clubs that will court him, ultimately he will decide. Do you really think that a club will get to sell one of the best players in world football to a club that they don't want to play for?

 

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That is largely true, but still, law of contract still applies.

Indeed it does, but as has been proved many times before, policing any player contact once they have made it clear that they would prefer to leave is very difficult in the extreme. Personally I thought the club did this very well with Morgan, so perhaps we can do the same again if VVD decides he wants to move on.

 

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I think you will find that the player will go where the player wants to go. Players employ agents for vast sums of money to get them the move that they want. If VVD wants to go to Liverpool, he probably will.

 

I'm amazed at the amount of supporters who are still stuck in the last century when it comes to transfers. Still believe that one club rings another one with an offer. That clubs can generate an auction and sell to the highest bidder. Basically, what happens in 80% of deals nowadays is the agent will get a selling price from Saints, he will then contact 4 or 5 clubs and offer the player to to them at that price. The agent will then negotiate deals with each interested club . Then,based on the agent/players preferred option, that club will then make Saints an offer. Which will be the "selling price " previously agreed.

 

So if Saints indicated to his agent that they want £70 million for VvD, that's what they'll get. If Liverpool are willing to pay £3 million more, that's not coming to us . Its going straight into the agents pocket for delivering them the player.

 

Of course the big clubs can dictate a bit more, can insist that the selling price only applies to clubs from outside the country or non rivals. What I've been told, and I don't know how true this is, but clubs have agreed a selling price for the following season or seasons if they stay. For example we will sell VvD for £70 million this year, but if he stays his agent has a gentleman's agreement that next year it'll be £45 million. Those are just example figures to emphasis the point.

 

I was told this by somebody close to another premier league club's scouting network. Not the specifics about VvD but the general principle of how the top players/agents & clubs operate. It stinks, but don't forget agents will be touting players to us having already arranged the price we'll have to pay.

 

 

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I'm amazed at the amount of supporters who are still stuck in the last century when it comes to transfers. Still believe that one club rings another one with an offer. That clubs can generate an auction and sell to the highest bidder. Basically, what happens in 80% of deals nowadays is the agent will get a selling price from Saints, he will then contact 4 or 5 clubs and offer the player to to them at that price. The agent will then negotiate deals with each interested club . Then,based on the agent/players preferred option, that club will then make Saints an offer. Which will be the "selling price " previously agreed.

 

So if Saints indicated to his agent that they want £70 million for VvD, that's what they'll get. If Liverpool are willing to pay £3 million more, that's not coming to us . Its going straight into the agents pocket for delivering them the player.

 

Of course the big clubs can dictate a bit more, can insist that the selling price only applies to clubs from outside the country or non rivals. What I've been told, and I don't know how true this is, but clubs have agreed a selling price for the following season or seasons if they stay. For example we will sell VvD for £70 million this year, but if he stays his agent has a gentleman's agreement that next year it'll be £45 million. Those are just example figures to emphasis the point.

 

I was told this by somebody close to another premier league club's scouting network. Not the specifics about VvD but the general principle of how the top players/agents & clubs operate. It stinks, but don't forget agents will be touting players to us having already arranged the price we'll have to pay.

 

 

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This assumes the club is looking to sell by putting a price on a players head.

If a player is on a long contract there is no need to fix a price and the club can simply say "not for sale this season"

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This assumes the club is looking to sell by putting a price on a players head.

If a player is on a long contract there is no need to fix a price and the club can simply say "not for sale this season"

 

Exactly this! Sticking a price tag on a player is last century stuff, im amazed people like Lord D n Micky are so out of touch.

 

"not for sale" gets the bidding wars going

 

Liverpool: "40m" lol not for sale

Chelsea: "50m" lol not for sale

Man C: "60m" not for sale

Chelsea: "80m" not for sale

Wigan: "100m" ok sold

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I knew somebody would come up with the "Wigan" analygy, but let's not bother with the totally unrealistic. I'm not bothered who he goes and plays for, but in the company of elite clubs that will court him, ultimately he will decide. Do you really think that a club will get to sell one of the best players in world football to a club that they don't want to play for?

 

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I used the Wigan analogy because of the way you worded your statement - He will go and play for whoever he wants to. You should have added on the end, 'provided that club offer to pay Saints a fee they are willing to accept for him.'

 

Of course, if Liverpool meet said fee and that is his choice of club, he will go where he wants. However, if other clubs (Chelsea, Man City, etc) meet that fee but Liverpool are nowhere near it, we will not sell him to them. He would then have the choice, reluctantly sign for one of the other (better, imo) teams to get his huge pay rise or stay with us one more season (or half-season) and see what offers are made next time around.

 

Yes, the player has to agree to sign for any club, but they do not hold ALL the cards.

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anyone fancy a swap with lorven and sakho?

 

No.

 

I agree with Minsk, the player does not hold all the cards. If he wants more money and CL football, fine. But no way would we accept 25m less from Liverpool than we are offered by ManC, for example. Only Scousers think they have that sort of pulling power and influence.

 

If KL found out Reed has some sort of connection with Liverpool and we sold a player to them for that sort of difference, he would definitely fired, wouldnt work in football again, and more likely than not prosecuted for fraud.

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Except that most of that money will be " banked " and the rest spent on yet another ineffectual , foreign, attacking midfielder.

 

I think that is unfair..the club have spent more on players than ever...a few years ago I never dreamed I would be watching a team with multiple 10m+ players in the side, let alone with a few sat on the bench most games!

The players have talent, it just needs to be unlocked by playing a system that suits them.

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