does the future look good for Pelligrino?

Wasn't Austin brought in as the Pelle replacement?

Wasn't Austin brought in as the Pelle replacement?

Yeh but he's now **** because he isn't playing (and therefore not scoring any goals)

621 passes, 3 shots on target. That's what you get playing five non scoring midfielders. The manager picks the team, it's a fact that we had the most non scoring matches last season whilst failing to score in 5 competitive games this season. We have scored one goal from play at home, two penalties and two away one from a centre back up for a corner.

Making nearly four thousand passes and scoring three goals from play is total nonsense and proves that most of those passes were played with no attacking intent and were nearly all backwards and sideways. The manager is responsible and by leaving two strikers on the bench is proving worse than stupid. Long a goal every five games, Gabbiadini one every two games and Austin one every two games will get more goals, cause defences more problems and take pressure off our defenders than any of the tippy tappers for possession sake only midfielders we have posing as forwards.

The manager has to change his selection and set up a team that includes the goal scorers rather than picking a numbers system that Brazil played in the 1970 World Cup Final albeit with Jairzino, Rivellino and Pele behind Tostao because it suited the players. Ours doesn't so change it. Citing that top teams play that way is stupidity because they all have players behind the striker that get goals regularly.

The main reason we "miss" Pelle, is because he allowed us to play long balls and put crosses in. He could hold it up and get his head on the ball.

The stupid bit in all this is we should be saying "Pelle was good but we wouldn't need him now because he doesn't suit our style of play", yet he WOULD still help us because we continue to pump balls into the box in the air.

It's not JUST that we continue to pick players not performing, but also because the team and particularly those attacking players don't seem to play to a style that would suit us. I find Redmond exasperating, but it also looks to me like he is carrying out general instructions and not being very good at showing initiative. A concern for me is that Redmond is picked ahead of Boufal exactly because he follows instructions, and that Pellegrino thinks that these instructions/tactics are eventually going to lead to our form improving. It's not.

Wasn't Austin brought in as the Pelle replacement?

He was indeed. He's been a poor one.

He was indeed. He's been a poor one.

Poor signing on big wages. Hopefully we can get rid of Austin and Long (who is woeful) over the next two windows.

The main reason we "miss" Pelle, is because he allowed us to play like my balls and put crosses in. He could hold it up and get his head on the ball.

 

The stupid bit in all this is we should be saying "Pelle was good but we wouldn't need him now because he doesn't suit our style of play", yet he WOULD still help us because we continue to pump balls into the box in the air.

 

It's not JUST that we continue to pick players not performing, but also because the team and particularly those attacking players don't seem to play to a style that would suit us. I find Redmond exasperating, but it also looks to me like he is carrying out general instructions and not being very good at showing initiative. A concern for me is that Redmond is picked ahead of Boufal exactly because he follows instructions, and that Pellegrino thinks that these instructions/tactics are eventually going to lead to our form improving. It's not.

This...absolutely nail on the head, but I think this applies to all our attacking players. How otherwise do you explain the fact that when they 1st started playing for Saints, Redmond, Gabbi, Long, Boufal and even Austin all struck some great goals? Seems to me they've had natural goalscoring ability coached out of them.

This...absolutely nail on the head, but I think this applies to all our attacking players. How otherwise do you explain the fact that when they 1st started playing for Saints, Redmond, Gabbi, Long, Boufal and even Austin all struck some great goals? Seems to me they've had natural goalscoring ability coached out of them.

The dead hand of serial relegation specialist Eric Black is a common thread across both recent Managers

The problem I have with this all is during the 7 games the manager has had plenty of opportunities to change up the players or formation to resolve this and he only added long.

He has had pre-season and 7 matches and we are still unimaginative and goal shy.

I would of expected Pellegrino would of also watched last season's matches and again noted with the same starting players playing this formation meant we can't score goals and yet he still went ahead with the same approach.

How stupid does someone have to be to not see to indicators that maybe this is not the right approach for us.

The problem I have with this all is during the 7 games the manager has had plenty of opportunities to change up the players or formation to resolve this and he only added long.

 

He has had pre-season and 7 matches and we are still unimaginative and goal shy.

 

I would of expected Pellegrino would of also watched last season's matches and again noted with the same starting players playing this formation meant we can't score goals and yet he still went ahead with the same approach.

 

How stupid does someone have to be to not see to indicators that maybe this is not the right approach for us.

Sensible - Which brings us back round to Eric Black....,

I fail to see why we got rid of puel for MP, nothing has really changed.

Like Puel, MP simply will not last beyond the summer (if not sooner) if this is what he brings to the party

I fail to see why we got rid of puel for MP, nothing has really changed.

Like Puel, MP simply will not last beyond the summer (if not sooner) if this is what he brings to the party

Good to see you have moved on slightly of your gone by Christmas mantra.

whats exactly is in his CV that made him the obvious candidate? As I, genuinely, cant see it

if it was purely based on getting an poor team to mid table in spain, there are a whole bunch of managers with experience of the English league (managing in it) that have that

if thats what we wanted we should have been all over Dyche (and ive been saying that for a while, not just based on this seasons start)

Another manager appointed who used to be a defender, and we are struggling to score goals.

So was Pochettino and Koeman? Puel I think was a DM by the way.

So was Pochettino and Koeman? Puel I think was a DM by the way.

Don't forget Nigel was a Goal keeper and we scored for fun under him....

Don't forget Nigel was a Goal keeper and we scored for fun under him....

I miss Rickie

Indeed he has. Resembles a carthorse in his sub appearances so far.

 

Poor signing on big wages. Hopefully we can get rid of Austin and Long (who is woeful) over the next two windows.

Yet all the TV Pundits said he was the snip of the season and so did we. Where has it all gone wrong?

I miss Rickie

Me to. I miss his penalties, his free kicks, his hold up play and his bullet headers at the back post...I even miss his song.....sigh

whats exactly is in his CV that made him the obvious candidate? As I, genuinely, cant see it

 

if it was purely based on getting an poor team to mid table in spain, there are a whole bunch of managers with experience of the English league (managing in it) that have that

 

if thats what we wanted we should have been all over Dyche (and ive been saying that for a while, not just based on this seasons start)

Cheap, out of contract and happy to abide to Les Reeds demands.

8 Games, 4 losses, 5 goals 2 of which were penalties, out of one cup already to a lower league side. Not good at all on the face of it. Then factor in he's got a fully fit side which has been improved on from last season, no fixture pile up Puel had to deal with and the fact that our two wins came courtesy of a last minute penalty against 10 men and a narrrow win against a team who can't even score let alone get a point it's been dreadful.

There will be those that will say it's too early to judge him and that is fair enough but I can't see anything so far to suggest he's even the equal of Puel let alone an upgrade.

Our attacking play is simply telegraphed to the opposition. We never ever turn defenders.

Until we get the opposition facing their own goal we will simply will not score, apart from an individual piece of brilliance (that seems to have been trained out of the players) or a fluke rebound or error.

The tempo and reluctance to mix things up is our main problem, we are so intent in trying to play pretty football that route one is forgotten. Now I can hear people say we don’t want the Fat Sam or Warnock football, but if we only changed our game plan a little, opposition would then have to think, which they currently don’t.

For me an Olivier Giroud type of player is missing, strength and hold up play, with Gabbiadini running and feeding off a target man for part of a game would cause any team a headache.

Why we continually cross from wide areas with no one in the forward line who could head the ball is beyond me.

Changing the manager when we finish 8th & get to a cup final is not the answer.

 

The supporters lost their fuvking head after the league cup defeat & the club should have stood firm, but they lost theirs as well. Oh Claude upset the little darlings, so ****ing what, they needed upsetting. Now they've got a guy in they want to play for, they like , and surprise surprise, they're even worse than last year.

 

But we are where we are. The guys been handed a poisoned chalice, hopefully he can grow into the job and our ****ing idiot supporters don't hound him out.

 

 

 

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We were completely right to sack Puel. He lost the dressing room, the fans and the form / performances at the end of last season was dreadful. Also, lets not forget he was given the chance to change his philosophy, which he turned down.

On the face of it, it looked very harsh to sack him and he done a very good job getting us to 8th, with the squad he had (He owes a massive thanks to the instant Impact of Gabbi for that!), but with all the other contributing factors, IMO the club made the correct decision.

What was the wrong decision was putting all our eggs in the Tuchel basket, when it was pretty unrealistic, and turning down Silva. Silva is the man that should have replaced Puel, not Pellegrino.

That being said, I think we are close to having a very good squad. We need to back him in January and get that creative forward we've been missing for a number of seasons.

Cheap, out of contract and happy to abide to Les Reeds demands.

I have no idea about the last bit, but it does seem to be incredible luck that the guy at the top of our manager shortlist always seems to be out of work

We were completely right to sack Puel. He lost the dressing room, the fans and the form / performances at the end of last season was dreadful.

They weren't though. The ridiculous thing was, if you changed our home and away results around for the last few months of the season, everyone would have been happy enough I reckon, but because a few idiots were unhappy they hadn't seen a goal, the boos started. Surely it was only sensible to get rid of Puel if the club were very confident they had a clear improvement lined up?

So, if we had brought in Silva and made the start that Watford had (other than the 6-0 drubbing to City, which realistically could happen to any team), who IMO we have a much better squad than, would this thread have started?

I do agree that the club should have been certain they had a clear improvement lined up, which I believe they did in Tuchel however for one reason or another that didn't come off at a late stage.

It is impossible to say how Puel would have started this season. Looking at the form at the back end of last year and the squads discontent, IMO it would have been no different, if not worse.

Interesting though that getting rid of Puel hasn't actually resulted in any improvement in our play (arguably we look even worse now then we did last season).

I would have at least expected an upturn in the form of the players this season having got what they, allegedly, wanted with Puel's sacking. I wonder how long it will be before the players start blaming MoPe for their current inability to perform....

Can't help thinking we missed a good one with Silva

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We were completely right to sack Puel. He lost the dressing room, the fans and the form / performances at the end of last season was dreadful. Also, lets not forget he was given the chance to change his philosophy, which he turned down.

So we wanted him to change his style of play, and because he wouldn’t got someone in who plays the exact same style,only worse.

I presume the players he lost included VvD, whose shown exactly which side he’s on. Whereas the other players freed from the shackles of horrible Claude , have ,,,,,,,,,,,played a lot worse. Thierry Henry said if players listen & learn from Claude they’ll become better players, perhaps they thought they were too good to actually be coached and educated. I excuse OR who despite being a shadow of last seasons man, has credited Puel for his improvement.

As for listening to the fans before making managerial decisions, have you heard some of our planks. Most people I speak to,and admittedly they’re all pretty much 50/60 year old blokes (who saw some of the really good away performances last season), thought he deserved another season. When a good 10% of the ground ****s off early before the end or misses the last 2 minutes of the first half to get a pie or **** weak beer down their necks, I don’t think we should take supporters views too seriously.

At the moment it looks like a mistake . We should of backed Claude over the players & supporters. It’s not just the first team, there were signs with Stephens,Sims & McQueen that he was developing these guys and, more importantly, playing them. I’m sure he felt secure in his job, and therefore took a chance on them. This guys on a hiding to nothing, he’ll have to go with the tried & tested , hoping it’ll come good. Take a chance with a nipper or drop an established player & lose a few he’s in trouble . The board have already shown they’ll buckle to player power or fan power, he won’t take the chance. The ramifications of this knee jerk decision will be felt for a while yet, We’re not Watford, changing managers every season may not work for us. It certainly isn’t conducive to developing young players

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We should of backed Claude over the players & supporters.

Fans I can sort of understand, but if he doesn't command the confidence of the dressing room you've got no option. If the discontent was widespread then it's fair to factor that into your decision.

I don't think we can totally disregard the home form either. The atmosphere at St Marys took a big hit and that does affect the team, however good we were away or how ill-informed you may feel the fans are. I normally go to an even split of home and away games and don't remember being particularly jubilant on away days. I was ambivalent on whether he kept his job but there were valid reasons to let him go.

Also: Pellegrino doesn't play in the same way as Puel unless you're using the really broad brushstroke of possession football. We have many of the same problems now, but that's not an argument for keeping Puel.

Fans I can sort of understand, but if he doesn't command the confidence of the dressing room you've got no option. If the discontent was widespread then it's fair to factor that into your decision.

 

I don't think we can totally disregard the home form either. The atmosphere at St Marys took a big hit and that does affect the team, however good we were away or how ill-informed you may feel the fans are. I normally go to an even split of home and away games and don't remember being particularly jubilant on away days. I was ambivalent on whether he kept his job but there were valid reasons to let him go.

 

Also: Pellegrino doesn't play in the same way as Puel unless you're using the really broad brushstroke of possession football. We have many of the same problems now, but that's not an argument for keeping Puel.

The broad bushstroke of possession football does seem to the issue though I'm pretty convinced most fans at SMS don't have the patience for it and most would be much happier with balls being banged down the channels or pumped over the top if it resulted in goals and wins.

They'd also be happy with possession football if it resulted in goals and wins, like it did under Pochettino and Koeman.

They'd also be happy with possession football if it resulted in goals and wins, like it did under Pochettino and Koeman.

Koeman's style was never about the possession and poch's style wasn't the fuax Tiki-taka we have had the last two seasons though.

Indeed, but they come under the same large umbrella. My point is that Pellegrino and Puel aren't playing the exact same way, just getting the same outcome at the moment.

The broad bushstroke of possession football does seem to the issue though I'm pretty convinced most fans at SMS don't have the patience for it and most would be much happier with balls being banged down the channels or pumped over the top if it resulted in goals and wins.

I'd agree with that. Strikes me how after five years of playing 4-3-3/4-2-3-1 and most of the age groups from u23s down playing it, a lot of the fans seem to clamour for 442 clearing it to Shane Long to chase it for Austin to goalhang. Even in League One we played far more attractive football than that.

Koeman's style was never about the possession and poch's style wasn't the fuax Tiki-taka we have had the last two seasons though.

Hmmm, Poch was quite like that. I remember lots of games playing nice football yet lacking any incisiveness in the final third. The best thing about Pochettino was our pressing defensively. Football could even be exciting when we didn't have the ball!

 

 

There will be those that will say it's too early to judge him and that is fair enough but I can't see anything so far to suggest he's even the equal of Puel let alone an upgrade.

It wasn't too early to judge the Dutch bloke at Palarse so they would be wrong.

So we wanted him to change his style of play, and because he wouldn’t got someone in who plays the exact same style,only worse.

 

I presume the players he lost included VvD, whose shown exactly which side he’s on. Whereas the other players freed from the shackles of horrible Claude , have ,,,,,,,,,,,played a lot worse. Thierry Henry said if players listen & learn from Claude they’ll become better players, perhaps they thought they were too good to actually be coached and educated. I excuse OR who despite being a shadow of last seasons man, has credited Puel for his improvement.

 

As for listening to the fans before making managerial decisions, have you heard some of our planks. Most people I speak to,and admittedly they’re all pretty much 50/60 year old blokes (who saw some of the really good away performances last season), thought he deserved another season. When a good 10% of the ground ****s off early before the end or misses the last 2 minutes of the first half to get a pie or **** weak beer down their necks, I don’t think we should take supporters views too seriously.

 

At the moment it looks like a mistake . We should of backed Claude over the players & supporters. It’s not just the first team, there were signs with Stephens,Sims & McQueen that he was developing these guys and, more importantly, playing them. I’m sure he felt secure in his job, and therefore took a chance on them. This guys on a hiding to nothing, he’ll have to go with the tried & tested , hoping it’ll come good. Take a chance with a nipper or drop an established player & lose a few he’s in trouble . The board have already shown they’ll buckle to player power or fan power, he won’t take the chance. The ramifications of this knee jerk decision will be felt for a while yet, We’re not Watford, changing managers every season may not work for us. It certainly isn’t conducive to developing young players

 

 

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Spot on

F*cking Hell, the reaction on here is ridiculous. People are talking about stubbornness because he's played Long for three games....after a five game run in which playing Gabbiadini resulted in 3 goals, 2 from the spot, i.e. he's already mixed it up in trying to find a solution. My guess is that he'll make another change given that this one hasn't worked out. Talk to me about stubbornness when Redmond is deployed as a striker for half a season. I can't help but feel that people are carrying their issues with last season into this one. Regardless of what you think of the sacking of Puel (and in the end I think it was justified because of how sour/toxic the crowd was getting), he was given the time/a season. I can't really remember this level of frustration early on last season, but then perhaps I have a short memory.

 

At the moment it looks like a mistake . We should of backed Claude over the players & supporters. It’s not just the first team, there were signs with Stephens,Sims & McQueen that he was developing these guys and, more importantly, playing them. I’m sure he felt secure in his job, and therefore took a chance on them. This guys on a hiding to nothing, he’ll have to go with the tried & tested , hoping it’ll come good. Take a chance with a nipper or drop an established player & lose a few he’s in trouble . The board have already shown they’ll buckle to player power or fan power, he won’t take the chance. The ramifications of this knee jerk decision will be felt for a while yet, We’re not Watford, changing managers every season may not work for us. It certainly isn’t conducive to developing young players

 

 

Good points, well made.

Indeed he has. Resembles a carthorse in his sub appearances so far.

 

Poor signing on big wages. Hopefully we can get rid of Austin and Long (who is woeful) over the next two windows.

Yeah, thats it, let Austin go and watch him score bucket loads of goals for someone else. Name me one premier league team that refuses to play their top scorer from previous season? Crazy

So, if we had brought in Silva and made the start that Watford had (other than the 6-0 drubbing to City, which realistically could happen to any team), who IMO we have a much better squad than, would this thread have started?

 

I do agree that the club should have been certain they had a clear improvement lined up, which I believe they did in Tuchel however for one reason or another that didn't come off at a late stage.

 

It is impossible to say how Puel would have started this season. Looking at the form at the back end of last year and the squads discontent, IMO it would have been no different, if not worse.

We never ever going to get Tuchel.

 

We’re not Watford, changing managers every season may not work for us. It certainly isn’t conducive to developing young players

 

 

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Do you know how many managers we have had in the last twenty five years? Or how many during that time have been in charge for, say, 100 games?

Managers are transient these days..

I think you might need therapy..Do you think you will ever be over Puel?

We never ever going to get Tuchel.

No **** Shurlock......sorry couldn't resist!

F*cking Hell, the reaction on here is ridiculous. People are talking about stubbornness because he's played Long for three games....after a five game run in which playing Gabbiadini resulted in 3 goals, 2 from the spot, i.e. he's already mixed it up in trying to find a solution. My guess is that he'll make another change given that this one hasn't worked out. Talk to me about stubbornness when Redmond is deployed as a striker for half a season. I can't help but feel that people are carrying their issues with last season into this one. Regardless of what you think of the sacking of Puel (and in the end I think it was justified because of how sour/toxic the crowd was getting), he was given the time/a season. I can't really remember this level of frustration early on last season, but then perhaps I have a short memory.

A few facts, that I cannot imagine anyone can dispute.....

Puel had two games per week, including Euro travels and a long successful league cup run against top flight opposition.

MP, after the shambles of Wolves reserves, has week after week of uninterrupted coaching time

Puel missed his top goal scorer for half the season, and his best player for the other half

MP has a fully fit squad. And Lamina. And Hoedt

Puel was given literally no one to replace Pelle with. Redmond was the replacement for Mane, or perhaps Gabbiadini in January was.

Not only did we get to Wembley without conceding a goal against top flight opposition, including away trips to Arsenal and Liverpool, but we outplayed Man Utd on the day and were denied a perfectly legal goal. With VVD injured.

If all of the above don't adequately explain why we ended up with fewer points than the previous season, throw in the fact that Liverpool, Chelsea and Everton all had no European football.

If, as others have commented, the reason was team morale then I assume those same players are not excelling?

It's time to accept that we have sacked a good coach due to a few poor home performances in a unique season that saw us have three home games in the dead end month of May. A MASSIVE uplift in points from MP is required to fairly account for what is an easier set of cards to play given the above. Let's hope he delivers that and everyone can say it was a good decision. Would you bet on that?

A few facts, that I cannot imagine anyone can dispute.....

Puel had two games per week, including Euro travels and a long successful league cup run against top flight opposition.

MP, after the shambles of Wolves reserves, has week after week of uninterrupted coaching time

Puel missed his top goal scorer for half the season, and his best player for the other half

MP has a fully fit squad. And Lamina. And Hoedt

Puel was given literally no one to replace Pelle with. Redmond was the replacement for Mane, or perhaps Gabbiadini in January was.

Not only did we get to Wembley without conceding a goal against top flight opposition, including away trips to Arsenal and Liverpool, but we outplayed Man Utd on the day and were denied a perfectly legal goal. With VVD injured.

If all of the above don't adequately explain why we ended up with fewer points than the previous season, throw in the fact that Liverpool, Chelsea and Everton all had no European football.

If, as others have commented, the reason was team morale then I assume those same players are not excelling?

 

It's time to accept that we have sacked a good coach due to a few poor home performances in a unique season that saw us have three home games in the dead end month of May. A MASSIVE uplift in points from MP is required to fairly account for what is an easier set of cards to play given the above. Let's hope he delivers that and everyone can say it was a good decision. Would you bet on that?

Sorry the two aren't linked.

Puel wasn't good so he was sacked. MP had nothing to do with that. You can never prove Puel would have been better this season in the same way I can't prove he would be ****e.

MP was appointed and he may also not be good, we don't know yet. Puel has nothing to do with that. Even if we are rubbish it doesn't mean we should have kept Puel.

Sorry the two aren't linked.

 

Puel wasn't good so he was sacked. MP had nothing to do with that. You can never prove Puel would have been better this season in the same way I can't prove he would be ****e.

 

MP was appointed and he may also not be good, we don't know yet. Puel has nothing to do with that. Even if we are rubbish it doesn't mean we should have kept Puel.

You have only dealt in headlines/slogans in your reply. Could you address the different points and either agree or disagree with them?

Our movement is poor. I hope that under Pellegrino we will press higher up the pitch and be a bit more energetic in attack. We need to offer at least a couple of passing options when we have the ball. We just look a bit lazy at the moment.

He needs to start double training sessions, get them fitter and drill them better on what he wants. We are pretty easy to set up against.

OK I agree with the comments about Puel. So he might of had the charismatic attributes of a wet sponge and you would get more passion blessing the pan after a vindaloo. However he did OK 8th in the league and a cup final. Call me a negative nancy or quick to jump to conclusions from what I've seen of Bell Gringo he is pretty well pants.... Championship at best.

Is Pellegrino on the same wages as Puel was?

Reported 3.2m a year i think?

If he keeps on his current trajectory MP will be gone before Xmas IMO. The new board will want a new man for the window.

I don't buy the 'we have bad players' line, they may not be world beaters but they are still hugely underperforming. Heads have dropped because the manager refuses to take any chances on forward selection and the players go on to the pitch believing they won't score.

Gabbi is a good striker, Charlie know how to score and Long makes a very good pest - picked together and given some decent service they could be a useful combination but the manager refuses to deviate from his ultra defensive 1 up front comfort zone.

Puel wasn't a particularly inspiring manager and I wasn't bothered when he went but he looks like a world beater against this guy.