Stoke 2 Saints 1 - Reactions

I completely agree that Reed has dropped a b*llock (will probably get told off for criticising him) but MP has to make the best of the squad he has available. We’ve got goalscorers sitting on the bench and a man that now hasn’t scored in 19 games as the one up front. It’s poor management, plain and simple.

It's feckin' incredible really. We can't create many chances and don't score the few we do create, and we try to solve the problem by playing the same team and formation that doesn't create and score chances except for bringing in a "striker" who scores around 1 in every 15 chances he gets.

I really wanted Puel out but nothing's changed under MP2. Should have got Silva. I hope the new Chinese owners are more decisive then the last / current regime - if we've made a mistake then we need to make a change sooner rather later - I can't put up with another season of "propaganda football" as Wee Gordon Strachan would say!

Now to drown my sorrows (again)!

Boufal gave the ball away twice that I counted, but in 20 minutes on the pitch showed more creativity and intent than either Redmond or Tadic have all season. Absolultely mind-blowing conservatism from the manager that he'd rather persist with the 'senior' players established under his predecessors than take a risk with the line-up to try and address our woeful attacking.

Nobody seems the slightest bothered at Neanderthal's antics for the 2nd goal. An elephant would have got up quicker.

I can understand Pellegrino saying that we can't play 2 strikers because we will get overrun, IF the attacking midfield players we have were tackling and helping out well with defending, and it was the only way we can hold the midfield. Since when have Redmond, Tadic and Boufal done this? It's not a problem for us being overrun in midfield, even Man U couldn't do it, and we had 70% possession today. Lemina has given us extra strength as well. I don't see how playing either of Austin, Long or Gabbiadini up front, with one of the others playing slightly wide instead of Redmond (Long and Gabbiadini have both done this previously) can't improve the side.

The other day I watched our win up at Anfield when Lovren scored, and I noticed we had Osvaldo up front, Lambert behind him, Jay Rod on the left, Lallana on the right. Very attacking, but we still didn't lose the midfield and gave the opposition plenty to be worried about so they were concerned about sending too many players forward.

Can dress it up any way but we've lost to a really poor Stoke side.

 

We're negative, don't test the keeper enough and as yet he hasn't solved the Puel problems. Same old rubbish and far too many players underperforming for too long. So bored watching us.

Agree, I said after Wolves at home that we'll struggle this season and have seen nothing to make me change my mind. Dull to watch, create very little , not much enjoyment for our fans this season.

Three times as many passes as Stoke. But we all know the one stat that matters...........XG. Await MOTD

But the aspiring stattos have told us that our xG has been off the charts, crazy tail of the distribution good. We've only underperformed because of variance - cruel Lady Luck has made Longy, an otherwise golden boot contender, look like a shoeshiner. A small dose of mean reversion and we'd already be looking at a 100 goals. To dismiss this is just kneejerkery by the mystics who irrationally believe in watching games.

I haven't seen any of the game, but someone who was there suggested VVD didn't seem committed, Redmond was poor, Lemina seemed to have lost his confidence and, along with others, was bullied, the ref was weak and gave little protection. Right assessment?

 

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VVD played well considering it was his first full match for 9 months, Lemina was ok (how can he possibly lose confidence after MoM performances in the last two games) and Redmond was anonymous !

Stoke are a bunch of whinging bar stewards but our inability to score, yet again was our undoing !

Redmond has been s**t for ages.

VVD played well considering it was his first full match for 9 months, Lemina was ok (how can he possibly lose confidence after MoM performances in the last two games) and Redmond was anonymous !

Stoke are a bunch of whinging bar stewards but our inability to score, yet again was our undoing !

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Redmond has been s**t for ages.

If we're not going to play 2 strikers let's at least have a go with 1 and a half. Redmond has had his chance but he's blown it so he needs to be replaced by Long who's worked hard but is never a lone striker unless the plan is to defend and play on the break. Gabbi needs to be returned to his striker role and told he'll be playing 5 games on the trot at least. At least he knows where the goal is.

That simple change will improve things going forward but the midfield still lacks forward momentum. Boufal needs a run in the team and Tadic should start to wonder whether he'll be the one for the chop.

Defensively we're not too bad but the individual mistakes are costing us dearly. However it's really the lack of punch up front that is the problem. Once we go behind you can sense the anxiety.

God knows why we stick to this 4-2-3-1 formation, we could play any combination of Tadic, Davis, Redmond, Boufal or JWP behind Long and we will never get enough goals.

 

It's just ****ing bonkers to have a team struggling for goals and having Gabbiadini and Austin on the Bench. We have a good selection of Centre backs, two good attacking full backs - 3-5-2 is the obvious formation.

This. Didn't see the game today but sounds like we were a few minutes away from a draw that would have limited the negative reactions here. Second half v Man Utd we looked like a proper team - Lemina outstanding. Romeu is quality. VVD too with his head in the right place...so we are a confident striker or two away from finding our mojo. Austin is not it IMO - looks overweight and a yard or two off the pace - has done for a while. Long is a provider not a scorer. Gabbiadini is our only true striker...give him a run with creative playmakers behind him...Tadic and Boufal, Redmond on a good day. Part of the issue is none of our midfielders are goal-scorers...their default mode is pass / walk the ball into the net before shooting - that is coaching and has to change.

Trying to muster enough enthusiasm to get cross about this but can't!

Main thing is, though, MP's press conferences are more lively so it's not all bad.

The manager needs to grow a fu_cking pair and change things as it's clearly not working. Also, drop Redmond.

Got soaked getting to and from the ground but home in 30mins makes a pleasant change.

I am not allowed to mention one consequence of not scoring, so just agree with most, that a difficult season lies ahead but I cannot mention were we might finish in the league.

If we're not going to play 2 strikers let's at least have a go with 1 and a half. Redmond has had his chance but he's blown it so he needs to be replaced by Long who's worked hard but is never a lone striker unless the plan is to defend and play on the break. Gabbi needs to be returned to his striker role and told he'll be playing 5 games on the trot at least. At least he knows where the goal is.

 

That simple change will improve things going forward but the midfield still lacks forward momentum. Boufal needs a run in the team and Tadic should start to wonder whether he'll be the one for the chop.

 

Defensively we're not too bad but the individual mistakes are costing us dearly. However it's really the lack of punch up front that is the problem. Once we go behind you can sense the anxiety.

We get plenty of team suggestions on here, ranging from sensible to bizarre in the extreme, but I'm struggling to remember a time when there was such a concensus. Gabbiadini has to replace Redmond.

The biggest selection dilemma now is Maya/Hoedt. If we can't slot Gabby and Long in, as above, maybe we should play to strengths and go 3-4-1-2.

Forster

Maya VVD Hoedt

Cedric Romeu Lemina Bertrand

Boufal/Tadic/Davis

Long Gabbiadini

with Lemina given licence to go forward much more and link with the front three.

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Gabbi on, Redmond off.

This was screamingly obvious after the Palace game.

Reed has seeked a Poch clone and come up with a Puel 2.

Depressing.

Reed has seeked a Poch clone and come up with a Puel 2.

 

Depressing.

Another case of fitting in players into his system rather than chose a system that your players allow

Tweeted Adam Blackmore before the game there was more chance of VVD scoring than any of our strikers. Wasn't far wrong. Should give all our center backs a game and we might see some goals

We've actually gone backwards from Puel, particularly going forward.

Basically change the system to make us more adventurous even if we are still losing or leave.

The sale of Mane and Pelle in the same window has killed us.

And Big Vic. It was certainly a terrible decision. I don't know what the hell Puel was thinking.

And Big Vic. It was certainly a terrible decision. I don't know what the hell Puel was thinking.

We're sold before Puel.

Went to the game today- this is how I see it:

Forster had a very good game, saved the pen ofc and made decent saves in the first half.

Cedric was poor, crosses were terrible and in general was growing in frustration as the afternoon wore on.

Yoshida good finish but had a few hiccups, albeit didn't lead to much, and same can go for VVD who won a lot of headers and made some incredible tackles, and tbh I haven't seen a replay so I can't say much about the penalty.

Lemina again absolute quality, on the way back a Stoke fan was telling me how he made an incredible, he says block of the season that us away fans would have struggled to see from our end, but he is again proving himself and putting his name in the shop window.

Redmond unfortunately has been terrible, desperately off form and to think he was our Juanmi replacement but is playing consistently baffles me- it is as if Les Reed is forcing MP to play him because if he comes good we can sell him at the English premium. Davis was his usual average best, not spectacular but not crap, and Tadic had his moments.

Long isolated and some we didn't play to his strengths.

On to tactics, why oh why do we insist on playing some crossing game without having a target man of some sort- especially against Stoke who are bloody good at winning headers with their rugby like defenders, not to forget we had horrible crosses today anyway, and I dunno about you but our attackers look so shot on confidence it's like they don't want to shoot in fear! So much sideways passing and if we are gonna play a crossing game, we need numbers in the box or we need to drill a low cross, one of them ones that can go anywhere. Don't get me wrong, when Yoshida scored I truly believed had we got one we could have gone and won the game but alas it was not to be.

On an aside, as my first ever trip to Stoke the atmosphere from the home fans were terrible, didn't live up to the sort of stuff you hear about the Brittannia even when they were winning too! The town itself wasn't brilliant as I ventured after the game, but also the Saints fans were unfortunately not too loud either, shame not everyone chants but it is what it is.

PS- I'd like to thank a gentleman and his daughter for the taxi fare they so kindly paid for me after coming out of the railstation in Stoke. Truly wish I could owe them more.

Just back. MP needs to find a formation to suit the players we have and not the other way around. Total lack of goal threat again - the football is just as boring as it was last season.

Somewhere Puel is laughing in his Beaujolais Nouveau

De ja vu! Like 2004-05 all over again!

Stoke are absolute turd and we lost, very concerning.

10 real men & Shaqiri against 8 real men & 3 fannies . Too soft, pretty pretty , football . Pelle would have had 2 today , for as well as VvD played, & he did play well , he still mistimed a header that was easier than their guys first goal. Someone needs to kick these twts up the arse. I'm sick of tired of travelling up & down the country and watching the same lackadaisical propaganda football. We're too nice. I bet sides love playing against us,

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Well another long day, enjoyable game but hugely disappointing to take nothing against a team that are less talented albeit well organised. My thoughts:

- Forster finished last season well and has started this one well too. It looks like he has his confidence and fitness back after being poor for two thirds of last season

- VVD looked very good. Shame about the pen, but I expected him to look more rusty than he did

- Our defensive set up in open play, and possession of the ball is very good and I wouldn't swap our back line and holding midfielders for any other. The problem as we know is the final third

- I thought Boufal improved us when he came on

- I have said many times that Pelle, after Lambert, gave us a completely different dimension to our play. I accept Mane was a special player who is hard to replace. But you can see in the closing stages of both the Man Utd and Stoke games that when we send a centre back upfront and hit some diagonal balls we see a different type of threat. We badly miss a tall target man. In the absence of one, teams are happy for us to play the ball around in front of them and can defend deeply. Until this is corrected we will dominate possession Look sold defensively but struggle to score.

- Finally I continue to disagree that sacking Puel wasn't either justified or has improved us

I just wish we would try something different in a bid to get the best out of the players.

I would go with a team of:

Forster

Stephens VVD Hoedt

Cedric Bertrand

Romeu Lemina

Tadic

Long Gabbiadini

This would give VVD the freedom to play with the ball out of defence (as he did at Celtic), hopefully make the most of our full-backs, allow Tadic to have the maximum impact, and give us both pace and flair up front. Long can work his way back when needed and we will hopefully see Lemina in a more attacking role too. Of course, it may not work, but can we at least try something new - please!

We're sold before Puel.

When was the last time you watched Southampton & one of our players did something a bit naughty. Left his foot in, or roughed someone up. We're a team if ****ing choir boys, or as Roy Keane famously called Arsenal , a team of Son-in-laws. We're soft as shiete

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Just to say, I watched the whole match here in the land down under. I have just watched it again this morning. We are sh1te! fact. Even the commentators pointed out, that our sideways passing was easy to defend against, and our attack was ineffective. Now me, I rarely criticise my team, but this was truly a dire affair. Redmond was a total waste of space, Long needs to learn the offside rule, as for Tadic, see Redmond. As said by another poster, if something is not working, change it, don't keep repeating the same mistake match in match out.

This was not pleasant viewing, and imho, if we continue to play this boring sideways, backwards football, we will have a season of struggle. Stoke were weakened in defence, yet apart from the last five minutes or so, we never tested them. Things need to change

I can understand Pellegrino saying that we can't play 2 strikers because we will get overrun, IF the attacking midfield players we have were tackling and helping out well with defending, and it was the only way we can hold the midfield. Since when have Redmond, Tadic and Boufal done this? It's not a problem for us being overrun in midfield, even Man U couldn't do it, and we had 70% possession today. Lemina has given us extra strength as well. I don't see how playing either of Austin, Long or Gabbiadini up front, with one of the others playing slightly wide instead of Redmond (Long and Gabbiadini have both done this previously) can't improve the side.

The other day I watched our win up at Anfield when Lovren scored, and I noticed we had Osvaldo up front, Lambert behind him, Jay Rod on the left, Lallana on the right. Very attacking, but we still didn't lose the midfield and gave the opposition plenty to be worried about so they were concerned about sending too many players forward.

UEFA Coaching Manual says it can't be done. Apparently, controlling the game with possession is the only way. Need to sack off Puellegrino sooner rather than later. He has no ideas of his own. Tadic and Redmond are killing us every week. No end product from the former, nothing at all from the latter, yet picked every week in the Groundhog Day Formation. If you lived say 100-200 miles from SMS and you weren't a ST holder, would you be shelling out for the travel, visiting the club shop, paying for tickets, programme and food, and bringing the kids to watch this turgid sh_it? Puellegrino needs to change it or ship out. Expected so much more from him, he has been a huge disappointment so far.

We're not in a relegation battle - we'll beat the teams worse than us, but I very much doubt a top half finish is on the cards. 13th is our level at the moment. Maybe scrape 10th if we have a good transfer window in January, and we do our business EARLY.

So we beat Swansea and Huddersfield?? Your deluded

Yoshi to give strikers lesson on finishing

I'm obviously watching a different team to everyone else and I feel sorry for MP. We look good defensively and in Romeu and Lemina we have an excellent duo who will be difficult for most teams to compete against. The tempo we play at is significantly higher than last season and i don't see the same lack of urgency in the team that there was last year. But the side is being let down massively by Tadic, Davis and Redmond who just aren't contributing anywhere near enough in attacking areas to give Gabbi or Long some service. Redmond is particularly is a woeful player who I think I've only seen him once this year actually take on an opponent. Cowardly football gets you nowhere and in Redmond and Davis we have two cowards.

I'd like to see us try 3412 with Boufal behind Long and Gabbi but I think MP was right about it not being an issue of strikers or formations, we just need the attacking and creative players in the team to start earning their PL wages. Boufal has not had enough chances this season and I think we need to give him a run of games in a central position and ask him to be the main man in this team, because I've seen enough of Redmond to know it will never be him

Incredible how quiet this place is after a defeat. We'd be on 12 pages by now if we'd won

We are 12th so you must be delighted.

Except we have only played one decent team so far, and lost

Just to say, I watched the whole match here in the land down under. I have just watched it again this morning. We are sh1te! fact. Even the commentators pointed out, that our sideways passing was easy to defend against, and our attack was ineffective. Now me, I rarely criticise my team, but this was truly a dire affair. Redmond was a total waste of space, Long needs to learn the offside rule, as for Tadic, see Redmond. As said by another poster, if something is not working, change it, don't keep repeating the same mistake match in match out.

 

This was not pleasant viewing, and imho, if we continue to play this boring sideways, backwards football, we will have a season of struggle. Stoke were weakened in defence, yet apart from the last five minutes or so, we never tested them. Things need to change

The thing is with very few exceptions we've been serving this caĉk up for the whole of last season and all of this one so far. Week after week the same cr@p, sideways/backwards slow tedious cr@p never stretching teams, never getting in their faces, creating **** all chances and missing the vast majority of the few we do create. We sack Puel after allegedly giving him the chance to stay if he changes style and gets us attacking more, then appoint a man who - on the evidence so far - plays an even less attacking game with the same formation and ineffective attackers. WTF basically.

I'm obviously watching a different team to everyone else and I feel sorry for MP. We look good defensively and in Romeu and Lemina we have an excellent duo who will be difficult for most teams to compete against. The tempo we play at is significantly higher than last season and i don't see the same lack of urgency in the team that there was last year. But the side is being let down massively by Tadic, Davis and Redmond who just aren't contributing anywhere near enough in attacking areas to give Gabbi or Long some service. Redmond is particularly is a woeful player who I think I've only seen him once this year actually take on an opponent. Cowardly football gets you nowhere and in Redmond and Davis we have two cowards.

 

I'd like to see us try 3412 with Boufal behind Long and Gabbi but I think MP was right about it not being an issue of strikers or formations, we just need the attacking and creative players in the team to start earning their PL wages. Boufal has not had enough chances this season and I think we need to give him a run of games in a central position and ask him to be the main man in this team, because I've seen enough of Redmond to know it will never be him

There is a lot of what you write I agree with, but a couple of points I'd argue with. Stephen Davis is no coward; his game is showing signs of decline as you would probably expect in a 32 yo. Davis is still a valuable player but rightly will be benched or used as a sub as the season (s) go on. Redmond isn't a coward, but there's no doubt about his limitations and non-team approach to go with his strengths of speed and ability to beat a defender. As much as I like Shane Long, he is never going to deliver as a starting striker, particularly when played up front on his own - at best he has a role as an impact sub, or perhaps played wide. Agree with you about Lemina/Romeu and the Defence - that is sorted but the attack side of things is alarmingly weak.

Make no mistake we were very poor first half. Forster kept us in it.

Second half was much the same until we made the changes.

4-2-3-1 is not working. We are easy to play against. We are slow, one dimensional & low on confidence.

Personally I would change it to 3-5-2.

Drop Tadic, Redmond & Davis.

More worrying is the rubbish that came out of MP's mouth after the game. We didn't play well Mr Pellegrino, we were ****e!!

When was the last time you watched Southampton & one of our players did something a bit naughty. Left his foot in, or roughed someone up. We're a team if ****ing choir boys, or as Roy Keane famously called Arsenal , a team of Son-in-laws. We're soft as shiete

 

 

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100% agree, been like that for ages though. Look how Mourinho took the p**s with our bench when getting sent off last week, they should have told him to f**k off.

Thought we dominated them for long periods and created some decent chances. Fraser had another excellent game, and Boufal put in a positive performance. Stoke away is never going to be an easy game.

Thought we dominated them for long periods and created some decent chances. Fraser had another excellent game, and Boufal put in a positive performance. Stoke away is never going to be an easy game.

Except it was a fairly easy game where we were clearly vastly superior over two thirds of the pitch but failed to make it count.

Same as Swansea at home.

Same as Man U at home.

Etc...

We have issues with the front four. Over the course of a season we simply aren't going to score enough goals with an attacking diamond of Davis, Tadic, Redmond and Long.

Except it was a fairly easy game where we were clearly vastly superior over two thirds of the pitch but failed to make it count.

 

Same as Swansea at home.

 

Same as Man U at home.

 

Etc...

 

We have issues with the front four. Over the course of a season we simply aren't going to score enough goals with an attacking diamond of Davis, Tadic, Redmond and Long.

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Stoke Southampton

Possession

Home30%Away70%

Shots

Home17Away21

Shots on Target

Home6 Away3

Corners

Home5 Away6

These stats are so poor from us 70% possession and 3 shots on target...sweet Jesus....something has the change...