Pellegrino pressing

Some on the forum don't think Saints are a pressing team anymore. The stats appear to show otherwise!

Under Pellegrino in the opening 9 Premier League games of 2017/18, Saints are joint 1st along with Pep Guardiola's Man City...

Lies, damned lies and statistics!

It's pretty meaningless as we have basically only played crap teams who let us have the ball most of the time.

Even Man U aren't really a possession dominating side.

Those stats will change dramatically after we have played all the big boys from mid-Nov-Jan.

It's pretty meaningless as we have basically only played crap teams who let us have the ball most of the time.

 

Even Man U aren't really a possession dominating side.

 

Those stats will change dramatically after we have played all the big boys from mid-Nov-Jan.

Over the 38 games of Claude Puel's season, Saints were 3rd for this stat. Yet people on this forum didn't realise we were pressing a lot.

Garbage in, garbage out.

Interesting that we are pressing then...certainly more than I thought we do.

I think part of the 'no-longer pressing' view many of us have is that in the old days of Poch we'd press, force an error and immediately spring into a fast attack. So the press would immediately lead to action/opportunities/goals (unless of course I'm creating my own fond memories!)

We certainly don't seem to spring forward after a successful press like we use to.

Again, a statistic without any real substance.... where are we pressing? Is this in the oppositions half or on the edge of our box?

Under Poch, it was very evident that we would (try) win the ball back very high up the pitch thus having less space needed to attack the opposition goal.

Regardless, I don't think pressing is the issue, it's more the pace we attack, which this and last season has been painfully slow making us very easy to play against

Lies, Damn Lies and Statistics no way are we pressing like under Poch....under Puel 2 did the rest backed off which is why they played through us so easily at times we never press as a team.

What a load of boll*x.

What a load of boll*x.

This

Again, a statistic without any real substance.... where are we pressing? Is this in the oppositions half or on the edge of our box?

 

Under Poch, it was very evident that we would (try) win the ball back very high up the pitch thus having less space needed to attack the opposition goal.

 

Regardless, I don't think pressing is the issue, it's more the pace we attack, which this and last season has been painfully slow making us very easy to play against

I agree with this, not sure that the "3 passes" can be taken in isolation as a measure.

However, few would argue that City, Spurs, Liverpool and Huddersfield are the teams most known for their 'pressing' game, and they are the other top teams for both seasons (minus Hudds for last year). So there must be something in these stats. I do wonder if there's an alternative explanation though...

Call it the Lemina effect that boy wins the ball back and breaks up play a hell of a lot.

A more realistic statistic would be how many goal attempts were made after winning back the ball rather than how many meaningless passes we made in our own half after winning the ball or how many passes we made in our own half after winning the ball in our opponents half.

If we have 72% possession against Stoke and lose 2-1 with very few shots on target it means we probably won plenty of ball but did little or nothing of value with the possession etc. Pochettino's pressing didn't end up with 18 scoreless matches or nine out of ten scoreless at SMS.

Call it the Lemina effect that boy wins the ball back and breaks up play a hell of a lot.

We didn't have Lemina under Puel for this...

A more realistic statistic would be how many goal attempts were made after winning back the ball rather than how many meaningless passes we made in our own half after winning the ball or how many passes we made in our own half after winning the ball in our opponents half.

 

If we have 72% possession against Stoke and lose 2-1 with very few shots on target it means we probably won plenty of ball but did little or nothing of value with the possession etc. Pochettino's pressing didn't end up with 18 scoreless matches or nine out of ten scoreless at SMS.

Not really. You're confuing two different things: pressing and winning the ball and creating chances. Just because we decide to be negative after we've won the ball doesn't mean we haven't pressed effectively to begin with.

SKD's observation was a good one: any meaningful pressing stat should take account of where possession is won e.g. in the opponent's final third, in the middle of the pitch or nearer our own goal.

Do you get a cup for being top of the pressing league? Does it get you into Europe?

We didn't press under Puel. Dress it up all you want. Romeu was in beast mode last season and did a lot of that work by himself as did Van Dijk. Those stats allow the opposition three passes before we intercept.

Go and watch Pochetino's Southampton and you'll see a team that hounded the ball in packs of two or three. That's pressing. Under Puel we were just well organised and regained possession well. That isn't pressing. F*ck the stats off and your football manager ******** and go and actually watch the games and the difference between the poch saints, and the Puel saints. They were a world apart.

Also, under Poch we pressed from the front. The forwards were our first defenders when we lost the ball. That's not the case with the Puel side as we were more than happy under him to give away A LOT of territory.

We didn't press under Puel. Dress it up all you want. Romeu was in beast mode last season and did a lot of that work by himself as did Van Dijk. Those stats allow the opposition three passes before we intercept.

 

Go and watch Pochetino's Southampton and you'll see a team that hounded the ball in packs of two or three. That's pressing. Under Puel we were just well organised and regained possession well. That isn't pressing. F*ck the stats off and your football manager ******** and go and actually watch the games and the difference between the poch saints, and the Puel saints. They were a world apart.

 

Also, under Poch we pressed from the front. The forwards were our first defenders when we lost the ball. That's not the case with the Puel side as we were more than happy under him to give away A LOT of territory.

Under Puel we only pressed once the opposition got into our half I always felt the plan was to draw the opposition in then win the ball back to open up the counter sadly we were woeful on the counter a lot of the time.

This season under MoPe there seemed to a an opinion, on here when he joined, that he was a manager who liked the high press but I can't say watching us this season has felt like watching a high press game. We have been playing a high line the last couple of home games our CBs have been on the half way line a lot but that might be more to do with the opposition sitting deep more than anything else. Romeu and Lemina have been good at breaking up and winning the ball back this season but generally much further back on the pitch than a poch style high press.

Under Puel we were just well organised and regained possession well.

Yup - I see no reason why winning the ball back within three passes particularly indicates pressing any more than it indicates effective man-marking or any other strategy for regaining possession.

SKD's observation was a good one: any meaningful pressing stat should take account of where possession is won e.g. in the opponent's final third, in the middle of the pitch or nearer our own goal.

How far does three passes get you? That should tell you something.

It's worth noting that Pochettino's pressing was particularly aggressive (and therefore memorable) against the top sides, who were sometimes taken by surprise. I think they're better equipped to deal with that workrate now.

How far does three passes get you? That should tell you something.

 

It's worth noting that Pochettino's pressing was particularly aggressive (and therefore memorable) against the top sides, who were sometimes taken by surprise. I think they're better equipped to deal with that workrate now.

It depends where those three passes start from. Not every attack or phase of possession starts from your own box.

Indeed. It's an imperfect measure but not invalid.

does kicking off after two opposition passes count for this statistic?