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Thread: Saints 0 Burnley 1 - Post Match Meltdown

  1. #151

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    In my opinion it was a complete smash and grab job from an extremely limited, but extremely well organised Burnley side. I can see posts on this thread describing such opinions as `deluded', but thats how I feel and you will do well to change my mind.

    We dominated the game pretty much from start to finish. There was a period in the second half when Burnley simply couldn't get out of their own half. Literally they were encamped in their third, hoofing it clear with no one 40 yards from the ball. They had nothing in attack at all...or so it seemed.

    I'd argue that our passing back to front was crisp and mostly precise, though not nearly enough from the usually reliable Romeu. We looked pretty solid at the back (no one needs me to tell you that) and we limited them to pretty much two chances, the headed goal and when they got round the back and Wood crossed poorly. Thats it. Two breaks. Jesus. Imagine travelling 230 miles to see your side have two breaks. If I'd done the reverse trip to see that performance I'd be fuming...right up to the point the team scored. Boy does a goal and a win make you forget a performance quickly...

    Returning to us. The central midfield battle was won comprehensively. We kept the ball well and passed our way out from the back playing ourselves out of trouble. Whether you like it or not there were redeeming attributes to our game.

    But I doubt anyone wants to read about those. When you lose and have lost similar games to this week after week you want have a good old gripe about it on here and blame Reed or MP or Redmond. So let me offer my 5 pennies worth. Where we came unstuck, and where we continue to come unstuck is that we don't have the quality of payer able to unlock a packed defence. A team sitting back with 4,5,6,7 or even 8 men back behind the ball, because we are dominating is one we are simply unable to break down.

    Tadic, Redmond, Boufal, Davis, Long, Austin, JWP and Gabbiadini, individually and collectively are not good enough. On their day they all can shine, but week in week out they simply are not quite good enough. There are obvious things like Longs finishing, Tadic's reluctance to shoot and Redmond cutting inside all day long. But there are also subtle things. Take for example the fantastic overlap by Bertrand in the second half, Redmond played him in and Bertrand's shot was blocked. It wasn't the most memorable chance, but it could have been the best one if only the weight of pass was right. but it wasn't. Redmond overhit it a little, Bertrand had to adjust, which took him wider, enabling Lawson to get back and block. And that's the key. The perfectly weighted pass comes from players with outstanding talent and we don't have them. We have good players, but not top notch players.

    And that is the issue. With limited space and decent defenders you need high quality to break it down. The same applied last season. We corrected the issue of a lightweight central midfield, but we have done jack **** to address the quality issue up front and out wide. Who's fault is that? Is it the managers? The board? Any manager will only be able to do so much with these.
    Last edited by Chez; 04-11-2017 at 06:42 PM.

  2. #152

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    We have fired a good coach, who took us to Wembley, faced 50 games and European travel, had three dead end May home fixtures but was either too boring or, according to some, lost trust of key players. Well the latter is laughable as I assume they are now excelling?

    In 30 years and 20 odd managers I have only ever called for three to be fired: Branfoot, Gray and Wigley. I didn’t even want Portfleet sacked as he was just given a bunch of kids. However this guy is taking us backwards. We have wasted many winnable home games (shades of our last relegation), the entertainment for BOTH home and away games is lower than last season with fewer distractions following the Wolves Reserves fiasco and, most worryingly, there is only one team I am genuinely confident of finishing above, and that is Swansea.

    So make that another happy clapper that wants him out now, while we have international break

  3. #153

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    Quote Originally Posted by Pamplemousse View Post
    He's being lined up by ITV to go to the jungle according to The Mirror
    Thank goodness! Iím all for a managerial change at this point but NOT for an anti football, be organized and take a point or a 1-0 if weíre lucky, manager like Allardyce. Him, Pulis, Dyche etc will all eventually be sacked after theyíve kept you up with 0-0 and 1-0 results before you turn to a ****, 30% possession side who canít get a result for toffee.
    Make a change but make it an exciting one, not a premier league stalwart type

  4. #154

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    Quote Originally Posted by doddisalegend View Post
    I think people give Dyche to much credit he is just another anti footballing "everyone behind the ball hope you get a lucky goal" type of manager rather than some tactical genius like a ginger Pullis.

    Burnley where utter turd but so are most of the teams in the PL. It seems now that most teams outside the top 6 are just hard working and boring.
    wish I had read your post before making mine. Could not agree more. Winning games is all that matters to most though...

  5. #155

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    Quote Originally Posted by Saint Albert View Post
    I agree with this. I've been a fan of Dyche but today his team just played behind the ball, parked the proverbial bus and left Woods stranded up front. They scored with pretty much their only effort on goal.
    painful. If only it was a one off. We might actually be better off allowing teams on to us a little. Maybe ht the channels now and then. turn teams, break quickly. Anything so that we create a bit more space as the guys we have don't have the ability to work in such congested areas

  6. #156

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    Quote Originally Posted by wadesmith View Post
    Luckily the international break will almost guarantee the club will get shot of him this week, to give the replacement a week to settle in, so hopefully something to get optimistic about.
    Agreed, it needs to be done now instead of later, we are dropping like a stone and it will get even worse with the difficult games coming, leave it too late and the new manager will be given an impossible task.

    I'm sure the new owners will not want to see their investment take an early downturn so hopefully they will apply some pressure.

  7. #157

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    Not been on here for a long time - probably 2nd half of last season when I was saying we could be in real trouble with Puel, we were not scoring and could not see a very bright future. Got criticised but stand by my comments that 8th flattered us and we were only there as a result of other teams slipping up.

    Really wanted Puel to go and had hopes for the new man - however not enough was done in over the summer - we should have unloaded VVD to anyone other than Liverpool when it all blew up - preferably a European team and used the money to strengthen, especially up front.

    Now it appears we are no further forward if you'll excuse the pun and I just don't get the tactics - why play Gabby alone up front?

    I think that we are in real trouble and need to find a manager who has got what it takes to understand how to get the best out of the players he's got available - have not felt this discouraged about the slide away from previous consecutive seasons of growth and progress as I have over the past 18 months

  8. #158

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    As soon as I heard that Tadic and Redmond were selected I just knew we were on a hiding to nothing.Pellegrino can pack his bags tomorrow and it wont be too soon for me.I've been a Saint since Jan 1957 and in all that time I can't remember a more demoralised set of supporters than there is at present.Wheres the motivation? The enthusiasm? The dedication ? Surely it didn't just disappear overnight.We are currently heading south quicker than an elephants droppings.Unless he goes it will just accelerate.

  9. #159

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    Quote Originally Posted by Chez View Post
    In my opinion it was a complete smash and grab job from an extremely limited, but extremely well organised Burnley side. I can see posts on this thread describing such opinions as `deluded', but thats how I feel and you will do well to change my mind.

    We dominated the game pretty much from start to finish. There was a period in the second half when Burnley simply couldn't get out of their own half. Literally they were encamped in their third, hoofing it clear with no one 40 yards from the ball. They had nothing in attack at all...or so it seemed.

    I'd argue that our passing back to front was crisp and mostly precise, though not nearly enough from the usually reliable Romeu. We looked pretty solid at the back (no one needs me to tell you that) and we limited them to pretty much two chances, the headed goal and when they got round the back and Wood crossed poorly. Thats it. Two breaks. Jesus. Imagine travelling 230 miles to see your side have two breaks. If I'd done the reverse trip to see that performance I'd be fuming...right up to the point the team scored. Boy does a goal and a win make you forget a performance quickly...

    Returning to us. The central midfield battle was won comprehensively. We kept the ball well and passed our way out from the back playing ourselves out of trouble. Whether you like it or not there were redeeming attributes to our game.

    But I doubt anyone wants to read about those. When you lose and have lost similar games to this week after week you want have a good old gripe about it on here and blame Reed or MP or Redmond. So let me offer my 5 pennies worth. Where we came unstuck, and where we continue to come unstuck is that we don't have the quality of payer able to unlock a packed defence. A team sitting back with 4,5,6,7 or even 8 men back behind the ball, because we are dominating is one we are simply unable to break down.

    Tadic, Redmond, Boufal, Davis, Long, Austin, JWP and Gabbiadini, individually and collectively are not good enough. On their day they all can shine, but week in week out they simply are not quite good enough. There are obvious things like Longs finishing, Tadic's reluctance to shoot and Redmond cutting inside all day long. But there are also subtle things. Take for example the fantastic overlap by Bertrand in the second half, Redmond played him in and Bertrand's shot was blocked. It wasn't the most memorable chance, but it could have been the best one if only the weight of pass was right. but it wasn't. Redmond overhit it a little, Bertrand had to adjust, which took him wider, enabling Lawson to get back and block. And that's the key. The perfectly weighted pass comes from players with outstanding talent and we don't have them. We have good players, but not top notch players.

    And that is the issue. With limited space and decent defenders you need high quality to break it down. The same applied last season. We corrected the issue of a lightweight central midfield, but we have done jack **** to address the quality issue up front and out wide. Who's fault is that? Is it the managers? The board? Any manager will only be able to do so much with these.
    Thank god you showed up. I was at the game and this is how I saw it as well. I can understand the over reaction because of the end result, but it really wasn't a game we shouldn't have got anything from.

    Sent from my HTC One M8s using Tapatalk

  10. #160

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    Quote Originally Posted by derry View Post
    We were passing the Central Station on the way in when the team was announced on Solent. I thought about telling the wife to turn around and go home. It is depressing, a manager who thinks he has it right, keeps picking the same attacking dross and anticipating a different outcome, madness. Now he says we controlled the game and will keep playing that way. 63% possession and lose again obviously the way to go. Get rid of the prat and get somebody in that believes in putting the players in their natural positions and playing enough forwards instead of five midfielders and a striker.
    Here here!

  11. #161

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    That was a gutless display. Shocking. Do we actually want to score a goal?

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    Quote Originally Posted by Winnersaint View Post
    Teams like us canít afford to carry prima-donnaís who think they are better than the club. Itís all well and good to hang on to players as a matter of principle, but ultimately itís backfiring on us.
    So that's Van Dyke, Bertrand, Redmond (LOL), Tadic (LOL) all out then. You are probably right, get rid of that lot and the manager and replace sensibly and we will probably improve.

  13. #163

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    any minute now we will have some chump saying drop the lot of them and get the youth in

  14. #164

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    Quote Originally Posted by 9-3 View Post
    That was a gutless display. Shocking. Do we actually want to score a goal?
    what do you mean exactly by gutless? Do you mean players too scared to try and beat a man in case fans get on their back? Not looking for a fight, genuinely interested

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    I've missed seeing the last two games - how did Boufal play today? And was he played in a more central role?

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    Quote Originally Posted by Micky View Post
    Thank god you showed up. I was at the game and this is how I saw it as well. I can understand the over reaction because of the end result, but it really wasn't a game we shouldn't have got anything from.

    Sent from my HTC One M8s using Tapatalk
    For me this totally misses the point. We were the better side and ,no, we didn't deserve to lose if you view the match purely in terms of what happened on the pitch. But we were at home against BURNLEY and we played the same old 1 up front unadventurous crap. If we aren't prepared to go balls out for a win at home against Burnley who are we prepared to do that against? IT'S S.H.I.T.

  17. #167

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    Drop the lot of them and get the youth in.........


    the England youth though!!!.

  18. #168

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    Quote Originally Posted by Chez View Post
    any minute now we will have some chump saying drop the lot of them and get the youth in

    I have to admit its sad how little we've seen of the youth this season doesn't look like any of them are getting near the first 11 anymore.

  19. #169

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    Quote Originally Posted by stknowle View Post
    For me this totally misses the point. We were the better side and ,no, we didn't deserve to lose if you view the match purely in terms of what happened on the pitch. But we were at home against BURNLEY and we played the same old 1 up front unadventurous crap. If we aren't prepared to go balls out for a win at home against Burnley who are we prepared to do that against? IT'S S.H.I.T.
    we played Boufal pretty much off the striker, with Redmond and Tadic pretty high up the pitch. Saying we had 1 up front is a little disingenuous IMO. What formation and personnel would you have preferred?

  20. #170

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    Quote Originally Posted by austsaint View Post
    I've missed seeing the last two games - how did Boufal play today? And was he played in a more central role?
    he played central, but it was quite tough going. Brilliant double spin move early on beating two men must have got his confidence up, but space was so limited he couldn't work any gaps. Not much came off. His little slide rule passes were all intercepted. He gave the ball away a little bit. I'm a fan as was annoyed he was taken off last week as the game was opening up, but just as it opened up this week he ran out of gas. That was only 70 minutes in, which was a little disappointing. MP kept him on but he faded and he either gave up (perhaps knowing he was being subbed) or was dead on his feet at the end as he walked forward when the break was on. For me the key is to keep persisting with him, especially away from home where he might get a little more space earlier in games.

  21. #171

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    Quote Originally Posted by Chez View Post
    we played Boufal pretty much off the striker, with Redmond and Tadic pretty high up the pitch. Saying we had 1 up front is a little disingenuous IMO. What formation and personnel would you have preferred?
    Personally, considering we have zero goal threat from midfield and they don't create chances for the strikers, I would go with a 4-4-2 where the width still comes from the fullbacks and the strikers have some service from out wide where they aren't the only player in the box capable of scoring and thus aren't marked by two men (or more).

    Then of the four in midfield I would either go with a flat four or a diamond - one of them can be Tadic, Redmond or Boufal and then the other three must come from Romeu, Lemina, Davis, Ward Prowse and PEH. We need to retain the quality in midfield to maintain a foothold on the game and cover for the full-backs but at the same time have enough threat in the box to score a goal.

    Continuing with the same as we've had the last few seasons is going to end in tears.

  22. #172

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    Quote Originally Posted by doddisalegend View Post
    I have to admit its sad how little we've seen of the youth this season doesn't look like any of them are getting near the first 11 anymore.
    who'd you like to see?

  23. #173

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    Quote Originally Posted by Lallana's Left Peg View Post
    Personally, considering we have zero goal threat from midfield and they don't create chances for the strikers, I would go with a 4-4-2 where the width still comes from the fullbacks and the strikers have some service from out wide where they aren't the only player in the box capable of scoring and thus aren't marked by two men (or more).

    Then of the four in midfield I would either go with a flat four or a diamond - one of them can be Tadic, Redmond or Boufal and then the other three must come from Romeu, Lemina, Davis, Ward Prowse and PEH. We need to retain the quality in midfield to maintain a foothold on the game and cover for the full-backs but at the same time have enough threat in the box to score a goal.

    Continuing with the same as we've had the last few seasons is going to end in tears.
    Long or Austin?

  24. #174

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    Surely this cannot continue for much longer. Even Reed look worried and embarrassed at the end when he got an earful or two from the crowd near him at the end. Maybe he's staring to worry about what a certain Mr Gao might be thinking? I bloody hope so. With luck he'll be the first out the door followed swiftly by his sidekicks, Black & Watson

  25. Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Chez View Post
    we played Boufal pretty much off the striker, with Redmond and Tadic pretty high up the pitch. Saying we had 1 up front is a little disingenuous IMO. What formation and personnel would you have preferred?
    Respect that people can see things differently but I certainly did not see a formation in which Boufal - or anyone else for that matter - played pretty much off the striker. I saw a frustrated and isolated front man just as I've seen for most games last season and all games this. I would have preferred a formation with 2 genuine attackers and I would not start Tadic at all for at least a couple of games, he's been ****ing awful all season.

  26. #176

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    Quote Originally Posted by Chez View Post
    Long or Austin?
    I don't really have a preference - I think both could do well for us with balls coming into the box early. Austin is obviously the better finisher and has the goalscoring instincts but I think Long's movement and presence unsettles defenders as they can't account for him when he runs across them.

    I feel for our strikers - they get no early service and almost have to manufacture their own chances as the midfield spends too long messing about on the ball. We need to up the tempo and whilst we can do that with out existing formation I just don't think the current crop have it in them to create decent chances when teams put bodies behind the ball. Crossing is more of a lottery in that respect but I think it is harder to defend when you commit more mean in the box.

    The counter-attack? I think you have to concede that is possible and attack with a little more conviction than be pre-occupied with what happens when you lose the ball. It's a bit cowardly in my book. I'm not saying be like Liverpool but you need to give teams something to think about. Organised is all teams have to be in order to shut us out. You'd like to think they would need some quality too.

  27. #177

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    Quote Originally Posted by Chez View Post
    who'd you like to see?
    I like the look of McQueen and think he could do a decent job in place of Redmond. I am a fan of Stephens but by keeping VVD and bring in Wesley we now have 4 good CBs and only play 2 so I can understand that (though I think there is a case for trying three at the back). I was also hoping to see Gallagher in the first team this season and was surprised he was loaned out if I'm honest. I hope Sims is going to get an opportunity when he is fit but not convinced he will. Reed I'm not fussed about not sure he is up to it. Olomola is raw and probably benefiting from his loan at Yeovil but can't help feeling he might of offered something up front (probably as a late sub) with just pace and power.

  28. #178

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    I agree we were generally okay today but the frustration comes from the result on top of other awful performances. The Brighton second half was unforgivable. Today we played well for most of the match. New gk, replaced Tadic and Redmond and we’ll be okay. Will we? Doubt it.

  29. #179

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    Quote Originally Posted by ericofarabia View Post
    Can't be arsed to read the rest of the thread, so probably just reiterating what has been said already. WTF is happening to our club?

    It is now 10 out of our last 13 HOME games ... yes HOME games that we have FAILED to score, and in most of them, not looked likely to score a goal FFS.

    We all knew , except for our management and coaches, it seems that Burnley would come set up for a 0-0 draw and hope to maybe sneak one late on.

    Well phuck me sideways guess what happened? Even more embarrassing is that the defensive away team went for 2 up front before we did.

    Taking Gabbi off and replacing him with Austin was a new low for me in tactical substitutions in a game that we were all over them % wise but not looking like scoring, yet minutes later pushing VVD up as an extra centre forward.

    Just typing this is making me angry at the ineptitude of what is happening to our club.

    This was Burnley FFS ... Burnley ... at home. I really dread to think what will happen to us at Liverpool, Citeh, Chelsea, Spurs and even Bomo in our next 5 away games.
    I've already given up hope for our home games ... 0-0 or 1-1 would be a bonus but expecting 0-1 against anybody.

    I'm normally in The Happy Clapper Camp ..... but rapidly losing hope.
    Gabbi was already over at the touch line when his number was held up so he must have known before that he was going to be subbed. Perhaps he had signalled to the bench?

    The game turned on the substitutions. After Dyche made his swaps we looked lacked direction.

  30. #180

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    Tadic and Redmond and the One Up Front show. Again. And the post match 'controlling the game' comment. Again. Pellegrino Out, and out now!!!

  31. #181

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    Quote Originally Posted by stknowle View Post
    Respect that people can see things differently but I certainly did not see a formation in which Boufal - or anyone else for that matter - played pretty much off the striker. I saw a frustrated and isolated front man just as I've seen for most games last season and all games this. I would have preferred a formation with 2 genuine attackers and I would not start Tadic at all for at least a couple of games, he's been ****ing awful all season.
    Same here. Nobody played off the striker today or if they did they were a bloody long way away from him.

  32. #182

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    Quote Originally Posted by Maggie May View Post
    Would Koeman come back?
    I would agree but he was sacked essentially because he refused to sign a striker and I feel like thats not what we need right now.

  33. #183

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    Quote Originally Posted by Chez View Post
    In my opinion it was a complete smash and grab job from an extremely limited, but extremely well organised Burnley side. I can see posts on this thread describing such opinions as `deluded', but thats how I feel and you will do well to change my mind.

    We dominated the game pretty much from start to finish. There was a period in the second half when Burnley simply couldn't get out of their own half. Literally they were encamped in their third, hoofing it clear with no one 40 yards from the ball. They had nothing in attack at all...or so it seemed.

    I'd argue that our passing back to front was crisp and mostly precise, though not nearly enough from the usually reliable Romeu. We looked pretty solid at the back (no one needs me to tell you that) and we limited them to pretty much two chances, the headed goal and when they got round the back and Wood crossed poorly. Thats it. Two breaks. Jesus. Imagine travelling 230 miles to see your side have two breaks. If I'd done the reverse trip to see that performance I'd be fuming...right up to the point the team scored. Boy does a goal and a win make you forget a performance quickly...

    Returning to us. The central midfield battle was won comprehensively. We kept the ball well and passed our way out from the back playing ourselves out of trouble. Whether you like it or not there were redeeming attributes to our game.

    But I doubt anyone wants to read about those. When you lose and have lost similar games to this week after week you want have a good old gripe about it on here and blame Reed or MP or Redmond. So let me offer my 5 pennies worth. Where we came unstuck, and where we continue to come unstuck is that we don't have the quality of payer able to unlock a packed defence. A team sitting back with 4,5,6,7 or even 8 men back behind the ball, because we are dominating is one we are simply unable to break down.

    Tadic, Redmond, Boufal, Davis, Long, Austin, JWP and Gabbiadini, individually and collectively are not good enough. On their day they all can shine, but week in week out they simply are not quite good enough. There are obvious things like Longs finishing, Tadic's reluctance to shoot and Redmond cutting inside all day long. But there are also subtle things. Take for example the fantastic overlap by Bertrand in the second half, Redmond played him in and Bertrand's shot was blocked. It wasn't the most memorable chance, but it could have been the best one if only the weight of pass was right. but it wasn't. Redmond overhit it a little, Bertrand had to adjust, which took him wider, enabling Lawson to get back and block. And that's the key. The perfectly weighted pass comes from players with outstanding talent and we don't have them. We have good players, but not top notch players.

    And that is the issue. With limited space and decent defenders you need high quality to break it down. The same applied last season. We corrected the issue of a lightweight central midfield, but we have done jack **** to address the quality issue up front and out wide. Who's fault is that? Is it the managers? The board? Any manager will only be able to do so much with these.
    You speak too much sense for this forum!!

  34. #184

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    Spot on

  35. #185

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    Oh btw Cedric is ****ing lightyears behind Clyne.

    Another downgrade Reed and his black box have done.

  36. #186

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    Quote Originally Posted by Chez View Post
    In my opinion it was a complete smash and grab job from an extremely limited, but extremely well organised Burnley side. I can see posts on this thread describing such opinions as `deluded', but thats how I feel and you will do well to change my mind.

    We dominated the game pretty much from start to finish. There was a period in the second half when Burnley simply couldn't get out of their own half. Literally they were encamped in their third, hoofing it clear with no one 40 yards from the ball. They had nothing in attack at all...or so it seemed.

    I'd argue that our passing back to front was crisp and mostly precise, though not nearly enough from the usually reliable Romeu. We looked pretty solid at the back (no one needs me to tell you that) and we limited them to pretty much two chances, the headed goal and when they got round the back and Wood crossed poorly. Thats it. Two breaks. Jesus. Imagine travelling 230 miles to see your side have two breaks. If I'd done the reverse trip to see that performance I'd be fuming...right up to the point the team scored. Boy does a goal and a win make you forget a performance quickly...

    Returning to us. The central midfield battle was won comprehensively. We kept the ball well and passed our way out from the back playing ourselves out of trouble. Whether you like it or not there were redeeming attributes to our game.

    But I doubt anyone wants to read about those. When you lose and have lost similar games to this week after week you want have a good old gripe about it on here and blame Reed or MP or Redmond. So let me offer my 5 pennies worth. Where we came unstuck, and where we continue to come unstuck is that we don't have the quality of payer able to unlock a packed defence. A team sitting back with 4,5,6,7 or even 8 men back behind the ball, because we are dominating is one we are simply unable to break down.

    Tadic, Redmond, Boufal, Davis, Long, Austin, JWP and Gabbiadini, individually and collectively are not good enough. On their day they all can shine, but week in week out they simply are not quite good enough. There are obvious things like Longs finishing, Tadic's reluctance to shoot and Redmond cutting inside all day long. But there are also subtle things. Take for example the fantastic overlap by Bertrand in the second half, Redmond played him in and Bertrand's shot was blocked. It wasn't the most memorable chance, but it could have been the best one if only the weight of pass was right. but it wasn't. Redmond overhit it a little, Bertrand had to adjust, which took him wider, enabling Lawson to get back and block. And that's the key. The perfectly weighted pass comes from players with outstanding talent and we don't have them. We have good players, but not top notch players.

    And that is the issue. With limited space and decent defenders you need high quality to break it down. The same applied last season. We corrected the issue of a lightweight central midfield, but we have done jack **** to address the quality issue up front and out wide. Who's fault is that? Is it the managers? The board? Any manager will only be able to do so much with these.
    Better teams than Saints fail to breakdown the likes of Burnley. It takes quality on the ball and as you say we don't have it where it's needed, in the final third. I don't want Saints to go the way of Burnley and West Brom. I do think if we are going to "control the game" and get mugged anyway we may as well take more risks on the ball. Wholesale changes aren't possible. The manager has to work with what he's got and give the players more licence. Move the ball quicker and be more aggressive.

  37. Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Chez View Post
    In my opinion it was a complete smash and grab job from an extremely limited, but extremely well organised Burnley side. I can see posts on this thread describing such opinions as `deluded', but thats how I feel and you will do well to change my mind.

    We dominated the game pretty much from start to finish. There was a period in the second half when Burnley simply couldn't get out of their own half. Literally they were encamped in their third, hoofing it clear with no one 40 yards from the ball. They had nothing in attack at all...or so it seemed.

    I'd argue that our passing back to front was crisp and mostly precise, though not nearly enough from the usually reliable Romeu. We looked pretty solid at the back (no one needs me to tell you that) and we limited them to pretty much two chances, the headed goal and when they got round the back and Wood crossed poorly. Thats it. Two breaks. Jesus. Imagine travelling 230 miles to see your side have two breaks. If I'd done the reverse trip to see that performance I'd be fuming...right up to the point the team scored. Boy does a goal and a win make you forget a performance quickly...

    Returning to us. The central midfield battle was won comprehensively. We kept the ball well and passed our way out from the back playing ourselves out of trouble. Whether you like it or not there were redeeming attributes to our game.

    But I doubt anyone wants to read about those. When you lose and have lost similar games to this week after week you want have a good old gripe about it on here and blame Reed or MP or Redmond. So let me offer my 5 pennies worth. Where we came unstuck, and where we continue to come unstuck is that we don't have the quality of payer able to unlock a packed defence. A team sitting back with 4,5,6,7 or even 8 men back behind the ball, because we are dominating is one we are simply unable to break down.

    Tadic, Redmond, Boufal, Davis, Long, Austin, JWP and Gabbiadini, individually and collectively are not good enough. On their day they all can shine, but week in week out they simply are not quite good enough. There are obvious things like Longs finishing, Tadic's reluctance to shoot and Redmond cutting inside all day long. But there are also subtle things. Take for example the fantastic overlap by Bertrand in the second half, Redmond played him in and Bertrand's shot was blocked. It wasn't the most memorable chance, but it could have been the best one if only the weight of pass was right. but it wasn't. Redmond overhit it a little, Bertrand had to adjust, which took him wider, enabling Lawson to get back and block. And that's the key. The perfectly weighted pass comes from players with outstanding talent and we don't have them. We have good players, but not top notch players.

    And that is the issue. With limited space and decent defenders you need high quality to break it down. The same applied last season. We corrected the issue of a lightweight central midfield, but we have done jack **** to address the quality issue up front and out wide. Who's fault is that? Is it the managers? The board? Any manager will only be able to do so much with these.
    Totally agree, and have posted similar both last season and this.
    As long as chance after chance is wasted we will struggle. We desperately need one of our 'strikers' to hit some sort of form, or we must import a recognised goal scorer in January.
    Only then will MP, the rest of the team, and us up in the stands get some respite from what has become a chronic problem.

    #welimpon

  38. #188

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    It wasn't a smash and grab job. We barely threatened.

  39. #189

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    Quote Originally Posted by Pamplemousse View Post
    We are because we've beaten three of them
    We are no better. We are in the **** and make no mistake. This has been coming for a year at least. No attempt to address our shortcomings from
    Last season. Weíll be lucky to have20 points by Xmas. Thatís relegation form.


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  40. #190

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    [QUOTE=broncoboy;2550884]
    Quote Originally Posted by DT View Post
    I sincerely hope our new board makes a rash decision. Get rid of this so-called manager


    It's just a matter of time before he is sacked. The next five games are tough and it's extremely unlikely the team will gain many points so our league position will clearly be in the relegation area.
    The fans by then won't tolerate any more dross football that we have been served up since last December
    He will be gone in December . They will sell VVD and spend the money on new players

    Pellegrino whether it's his fault or not has shown he can't improve the results
    The fact that Les reed appointed a defensive negative manager after Puel is unbelievable
    Eric Black ( dr death ) must go too the man that can kill any team
    Gents, weíre almost exactly the same as last year. Same style, sane problem scoring, same first xi. Itís not the manager. The squad is bang average....I could take over and have no discernible difference for better or worse. If we survive this year we need a monumental rethink about the squad.


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  41. #191

    Join Date
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    Bandit Country
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    219

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Chez View Post
    In my opinion it was a complete smash and grab job from an extremely limited, but extremely well organised Burnley side. I can see posts on this thread describing such opinions as `deluded', but thats how I feel and you will do well to change my mind.

    We dominated the game pretty much from start to finish. There was a period in the second half when Burnley simply couldn't get out of their own half. Literally they were encamped in their third, hoofing it clear with no one 40 yards from the ball. They had nothing in attack at all...or so it seemed.

    I'd argue that our passing back to front was crisp and mostly precise, though not nearly enough from the usually reliable Romeu. We looked pretty solid at the back (no one needs me to tell you that) and we limited them to pretty much two chances, the headed goal and when they got round the back and Wood crossed poorly. Thats it. Two breaks. Jesus. Imagine travelling 230 miles to see your side have two breaks. If I'd done the reverse trip to see that performance I'd be fuming...right up to the point the team scored. Boy does a goal and a win make you forget a performance quickly...

    Returning to us. The central midfield battle was won comprehensively. We kept the ball well and passed our way out from the back playing ourselves out of trouble. Whether you like it or not there were redeeming attributes to our game.

    But I doubt anyone wants to read about those. When you lose and have lost similar games to this week after week you want have a good old gripe about it on here and blame Reed or MP or Redmond. So let me offer my 5 pennies worth. Where we came unstuck, and where we continue to come unstuck is that we don't have the quality of payer able to unlock a packed defence. A team sitting back with 4,5,6,7 or even 8 men back behind the ball, because we are dominating is one we are simply unable to break down.

    Tadic, Redmond, Boufal, Davis, Long, Austin, JWP and Gabbiadini, individually and collectively are not good enough. On their day they all can shine, but week in week out they simply are not quite good enough. There are obvious things like Longs finishing, Tadic's reluctance to shoot and Redmond cutting inside all day long. But there are also subtle things. Take for example the fantastic overlap by Bertrand in the second half, Redmond played him in and Bertrand's shot was blocked. It wasn't the most memorable chance, but it could have been the best one if only the weight of pass was right. but it wasn't. Redmond overhit it a little, Bertrand had to adjust, which took him wider, enabling Lawson to get back and block. And that's the key. The perfectly weighted pass comes from players with outstanding talent and we don't have them. We have good players, but not top notch players.

    And that is the issue. With limited space and decent defenders you need high quality to break it down. The same applied last season. We corrected the issue of a lightweight central midfield, but we have done jack **** to address the quality issue up front and out wide. Who's fault is that? Is it the managers? The board? Any manager will only be able to do so much with these.
    thank god for someone who watched the same game i did . im sure some of the 100's who left as soon as the goal went in got straight on here to continue their negative agenda. our fanbase is truely sh!t

  42. Default

    The negative vibes coming off the stands are part of the problem. Totally get why but it isn't helping.

    Redmond is scared of taking a risk due to the flak he receives. When he does the opposition are immediately on their heels and bingo we have a decent chance. I thought he had a better game today not our worse by any means.

    Having said all that this manager is obviously out of his depth, and has lost the dressing room. I have never seen a Saints team so at odds with each other and lacking team spirit.

    VVD may be a good player but along with Bertrand it looks like he is a toxic influence at the moment. Not a word from either this season just when a rallying call from our talismen is desperately needed.

    Frankly they can do one, pocket the cash And move on.

    Forster concerns me, does he has the mental strength to cope with the current situation. He has to be rested for his (and our) wellbeing.

    We are going to get sweet FA from the next 6 games, so use them to rebuild.

    New manager, required obviously, who believes in attacking football.

    Not watching MOTD

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  43. #193

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    MOTD although not always balanced, appears to support this view 100%

  44. #194

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    Quote Originally Posted by ivangolac View Post
    im sure some of the 100's who left as soon as the goal went in got straight on here to continue their negative agenda. our fanbase is truely sh!t
    who leaves after 81 minutes at 0-1? I know we have lost our way somewhat, but **** poor support.

  45. #195

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    Was NI now Shropshire..!
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    Quote Originally Posted by Nick75Sfc View Post
    MOTD although not always balanced, appears to support this view 100%
    Sorry, what view would that be then?

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  46. #196

    Join Date
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    Quote Originally Posted by Chez View Post
    In my opinion it was a complete smash and grab job from an extremely limited, but extremely well organised Burnley side. I can see posts on this thread describing such opinions as `deluded', but thats how I feel and you will do well to change my mind.

    We dominated the game pretty much from start to finish. There was a period in the second half when Burnley simply couldn't get out of their own half. Literally they were encamped in their third, hoofing it clear with no one 40 yards from the ball. They had nothing in attack at all...or so it seemed.

    I'd argue that our passing back to front was crisp and mostly precise, though not nearly enough from the usually reliable Romeu. We looked pretty solid at the back (no one needs me to tell you that) and we limited them to pretty much two chances, the headed goal and when they got round the back and Wood crossed poorly. Thats it. Two breaks. Jesus. Imagine travelling 230 miles to see your side have two breaks. If I'd done the reverse trip to see that performance I'd be fuming...right up to the point the team scored. Boy does a goal and a win make you forget a performance quickly...

    Returning to us. The central midfield battle was won comprehensively. We kept the ball well and passed our way out from the back playing ourselves out of trouble. Whether you like it or not there were redeeming attributes to our game.

    But I doubt anyone wants to read about those. When you lose and have lost similar games to this week after week you want have a good old gripe about it on here and blame Reed or MP or Redmond. So let me offer my 5 pennies worth. Where we came unstuck, and where we continue to come unstuck is that we don't have the quality of payer able to unlock a packed defence. A team sitting back with 4,5,6,7 or even 8 men back behind the ball, because we are dominating is one we are simply unable to break down.

    Tadic, Redmond, Boufal, Davis, Long, Austin, JWP and Gabbiadini, individually and collectively are not good enough. On their day they all can shine, but week in week out they simply are not quite good enough. There are obvious things like Longs finishing, Tadic's reluctance to shoot and Redmond cutting inside all day long. But there are also subtle things. Take for example the fantastic overlap by Bertrand in the second half, Redmond played him in and Bertrand's shot was blocked. It wasn't the most memorable chance, but it could have been the best one if only the weight of pass was right. but it wasn't. Redmond overhit it a little, Bertrand had to adjust, which took him wider, enabling Lawson to get back and block. And that's the key. The perfectly weighted pass comes from players with outstanding talent and we don't have them. We have good players, but not top notch players.

    And that is the issue. With limited space and decent defenders you need high quality to break it down. The same applied last season. We corrected the issue of a lightweight central midfield, but we have done jack **** to address the quality issue up front and out wide. Who's fault is that? Is it the managers? The board? Any manager will only be able to do so much with these.

    Agreed, I thought we played a fair bit better today BUT, same frustration about the fact we are over coached and play too much to a system. Burnley played a high defensive line in the first half, squeezed our space, and because no-one is willing to play a ball early or go direct over the top it is so easy for teams to play against us. Gabbi is looking for the inside channel ball every time, and it NEVER comes.. EVER.

    The only thing I would disagree with.. is that the small touches aren't just about quality, but about confidence and that is obviously so low at the moment, it's like watching England. Players are so frightened t get something wrong, they don't take a risk.. (well apart from Boufal who takes a risk all the time)

    Needs some un-coaching.. take a few risks.. tell them to go ours and have fun.. be creative.. they are capable.. just needs better management.

  47. #197

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Chez View Post
    In my opinion it was a complete smash and grab job from an extremely limited, but extremely well organised Burnley side. I can see posts on this thread describing such opinions as `deluded', but thats how I feel and you will do well to change my mind.

    We dominated the game pretty much from start to finish. There was a period in the second half when Burnley simply couldn't get out of their own half. Literally they were encamped in their third, hoofing it clear with no one 40 yards from the ball. They had nothing in attack at all...or so it seemed.

    I'd argue that our passing back to front was crisp and mostly precise, though not nearly enough from the usually reliable Romeu. We looked pretty solid at the back (no one needs me to tell you that) and we limited them to pretty much two chances, the headed goal and when they got round the back and Wood crossed poorly. Thats it. Two breaks. Jesus. Imagine travelling 230 miles to see your side have two breaks. If I'd done the reverse trip to see that performance I'd be fuming...right up to the point the team scored. Boy does a goal and a win make you forget a performance quickly...

    Returning to us. The central midfield battle was won comprehensively. We kept the ball well and passed our way out from the back playing ourselves out of trouble. Whether you like it or not there were redeeming attributes to our game.

    But I doubt anyone wants to read about those. When you lose and have lost similar games to this week after week you want have a good old gripe about it on here and blame Reed or MP or Redmond. So let me offer my 5 pennies worth. Where we came unstuck, and where we continue to come unstuck is that we don't have the quality of payer able to unlock a packed defence. A team sitting back with 4,5,6,7 or even 8 men back behind the ball, because we are dominating is one we are simply unable to break down.

    Tadic, Redmond, Boufal, Davis, Long, Austin, JWP and Gabbiadini, individually and collectively are not good enough. On their day they all can shine, but week in week out they simply are not quite good enough. There are obvious things like Longs finishing, Tadic's reluctance to shoot and Redmond cutting inside all day long. But there are also subtle things. Take for example the fantastic overlap by Bertrand in the second half, Redmond played him in and Bertrand's shot was blocked. It wasn't the most memorable chance, but it could have been the best one if only the weight of pass was right. but it wasn't. Redmond overhit it a little, Bertrand had to adjust, which took him wider, enabling Lawson to get back and block. And that's the key. The perfectly weighted pass comes from players with outstanding talent and we don't have them. We have good players, but not top notch players.

    And that is the issue. With limited space and decent defenders you need high quality to break it down. The same applied last season. We corrected the issue of a lightweight central midfield, but we have done jack **** to address the quality issue up front and out wide. Who's fault is that? Is it the managers? The board? Any manager will only be able to do so much with these.
    Ok since most people so far are agreeing with you I'll bite here. Why are we better? Because we complete a lot of possession time and passes in a meaningless part of the pitch that Burnley is more than happy to let us play in by ourselves? Why does any of this matter if we never score ( and we don't in many games now)? The fact is that teams let us play with ourselves around midfield all game long, it makes life on the defense easy. We rarely put any pressure on the defenders. The 4-5-1, with our players, just controls possession, we don't have the midfield attackers to bring it forward. We would be better served going 2 or 3 upfront. We have to score. Looking good, getting lots of possession, completing lots of meaningless passes, doesn't mean anything and teams like Burnley are more than happy to let us do it. We need to score period. We need to attack, in a different formation, and put some pressure on the back 4.

  48. #198

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    Perth, in the land of Oz
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    5,916

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    It's been said several times...........

    “Insanity is doing the same thing, over and over again, but expecting different results.”

    As soon as I saw the team, I thought about the above quote. MoPe is an idiot to think that by playing the same formation, the same players, that he would get a different result. Make no mistake, we are in trouble, because the manager thinks, that we are playing well, and controlling games. He does't see that playing one up front, two defensive midfielders, and the ineffective Tadic and Redmond, is a problem. Cross after cross went into the opposition box, with only one or two of our players there, and it was a comfortable day for their two CB's.

    Like others, I'm asking, why oh why are we not trying 3-4-3 or even 3-4-1-2, try something different, because.......

    “Insanity is doing the same thing, over and over again, but expecting different results.”

  49. Default Saints 0 Burnley 1 - Post Match Meltdown

    Quote Originally Posted by Saints foreva View Post
    It wasn't a smash and grab job. We barely threatened.
    I must of dreamt Yoshida's shot, the couple of decent saves from their keeper & a great block from a Bertrand effort. Forester had one save to make & didn't make it. I've seen some woeful performances, but that wasn't one of them. We were slightly better than we have been lately, but obviously that's no good if you can't put the ball in the ****ing net . Redmond played ok, but people just want to make stupid judgements that confirm their prejudice. We didn't deserve to lose, but didn't do enough to win.

    Totally agree with the assessment of our support. ****ing fair weather supporters, probably the worst in the league. Anyone who left before the end should be ****ing ashamed of themselves. ****ing ******s


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    Last edited by Lord Duckhunter; 04-11-2017 at 11:56 PM.

  50. #200

    Default

    In any sport, I always laugh at managers who think the team is doing well but losing regularly. The goal is to win. It doesn't matter how the squad looks, what formation it plays, etc. Everyone is paid to win. The top managers know this and develop tactics to win with their players.

    A famous American Football coach named Bill Parcells said, "You are what your record says you are". This is brilliant. It cuts through all the bull. No more of the "well we have no points but we are playing well" crap. It you are winning and compiling points good, if not you are not playing well. Period.

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