Ralph Kreuger Interview

Can we at least all agree it's irritating?

It’s the empty corporate speak that drives me up the wall.

You seem a bit confused. It’s one thing to say that the deal raises lots of red flags -lots of people have expressed concerns, you’re not particularly in a minority here, despite what you think; it’s quite another thing to say that Gao is only interested in raising his visibility in the city so his company can secure building and infrastructure work. With all due respect, I suggest you don’t know much about how Chinese businessmen have viewed the UK as a destination for investment and place to do business.

If a billionaire property magnate wants to sit down with Southampton City council to propose a multimillion opportunity to develop some real estate in the city, why do they need to buy the football club first? We're hardly going to turn them away. Plus surely you get more leverage with the council by doing things that actually help them out, like sponsoring civic events or whisking councillors off on fact-finding jollies to grease the wheels. The people running the city don't really care who owns SFC.

So personally I don't buy it.

I'm pretty certain he left under a cloud. I recall reading or hearing something in relation to the takeover that led to his exit. Seems pretty clear Gao family have no interest in football side of things and our recruitment policy will remain the same

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Am I right in thinking that buying a football club is really a completely pointless exercise for potential property developers, Chinese or otherwise?

 

If a billionaire property magnate wants to sit down with Southampton City council to propose a multimillion opportunity to develop some real estate in the city, why do they need to buy the football club first? We're hardly going to turn them away. Plus surely you get more leverage with the council by doing things that actually help them out, like sponsoring civic events or whisking councillors off on fact-finding jollies to grease the wheels. The people running the city don't really care who owns SFC.

 

So personally I don't buy it.

Yes it also strikes me as pretty pointless.

While I know jack s**t about the Goas and the ins and outs of this deal, wider trends are instructive. Chinese businessmen have generally stayed away from having a presence on the ground and taking on operational responsibilities, preferring to provide financing and opt for a more passive, hands-off approach to their investments.

For its part, the UK is one of the most open and welcoming countries in the world for foreign investment, even in sensitive sectors such as nuclear and telecoms. There is no need for Goa to curry favour. Indeed, if you're Goa, why limit your opportunity set to Southampton? Why not take your pick from the rest of country and simply go where returns are highest.

I'm pretty sure that the £200m they've spunked on the club will be their biggest investment here - whatever else they do will be ancillary and secondary to owning saints. If they do other business, it may be with an eye on the Chinese market with which they're intimately more familiar. I read Goa's blog a while back, describing his trip to Poole and the time he spent at Sunseeker, the yachtmakers. For all we know, he might be looking at partnerships which have the potential to expand in China.

Finally, there's nothing in Lander's profile that screams out and says they have deep expertise in construction and infrastructure. They're a diversified company with fingers in many pots -finance, media, real estate, hotels, airlines, education, agriculture and, of course, now sports- which is a feature of Chinese business and emerging markets more generally.

So, like you, I don't buy it - just like I didn't buy the whimsical little story that Markus was only here to develop the city and in the process flog us more Liebherr family cranes and trucks.

Les Reed football supremo lol, I bet he loves that tag

I'm really not sure what people were expecting re:Gao's investment into the club? Many of us that have been close to the buy out have been repeating for a long time (even pre buyout) that's it's not a good thing.

 

Gao isn't interested in the football side of things and that this is an investment about bringing his company into Southampton to do building work and infrastructure work.

 

We're just an easy in to the city, and a relatively cheap buy for getting influence and leverage in Southampton.

 

Obviously most people have ignored this because they don't want to believe it, but it's the truth, hence why i warned before the buyout it was a bad thing.

 

My only hope is that the club having premier league status is of importance to the way he's seen in China which forces him to act, but i'm not holding my breath, and i'm definitely not expecting anything in terms of investment on the football side of things.

 

What Guan has been saying about things taking backwards steps rings true about many things, although Guan if i can address you directly there are a couple of things that i'm interested in, firstly i know that non playing staff have had "issues" with getting pay rises, is that one of the things that's causing the leavers? And i assume new hires are being taken on at a lower rate?

 

The other part is something you said about Krueger flying in, i'm sorry but that doesn't ring true to me (i need to be careful here) but I know for a fact he's had meetings in Southampton pre xmas (semi regularly) as has Gao as i know someone involved in those meetings. I also know that those meetings stopped for two weeks because "football business" (translation VVD) had taken precedence.

 

Of course the board etc. do conferences, and from what i understand some of the senior members have been setting up something along the lines of our academy in China recently, but they're also actively working with people in Southampton Football club and in the city, particularly around the integration of the board and Gao's.

 

So i'm interested to know Guan if that's what you're alluding to? Or are you speaking longer term/historically.

 

Last post of the day from me sorry.

He was here, flew off, stayed away during our terrible festive form, and flew back completely out of touch with the fans mood for the 2nd of January interviews, which were tone deaf and have left the club scrambling for good PR #LunchWithPlayers.

And as you've alluded to, yes staff have been hacked off with a lack of communication/refusal of funds for projects over here, where the club is, compared to money earmarked for various investments far afield, which take up large amounts of attention from execs and get immediate answers on decisions, as opposed to several weeks wait for 'home' procredure.

I think it is really great that Ralph has reached out to the fans and connected about their concerns. It is so validating.

Can I just add something to this..... apparently (well I know at least 1 person is and I’d imagine whispers go round) a number of people are a bit ****ed off that Kelv “unjustifiably & unwarranted” promotion to the first team. Especially when, as you’ve said, others who apparently do a decent job, struggle to get any sort of pay rise at the moment.

 

Thanks for the rest of your information though... it truly does appear that Kat has sold us down the river to any Tom, **** or Harry.

 

I do wonder if this has any correlation to why Gareth Rogers left the club. Something that (to me anyway) was kept extremely secret.

Who exactly out of anyone is doing a decent job at the club at the moment?

Having read the Kreuger interview, I begin to lose hope. Although I disagreed with some of the things that he said and did, it is at times like these that I long for the Cortese days. Someone who had a clear vision for the club, always put us first and never regarded us as a "small club" with limited ambitions.

Having read the Kreuger interview, I begin to lose hope. Although I disagreed with some of the things that he said and did, it is at times like these that I long for the Cortese days. Someone who had a clear vision for the club, always put us first and never regarded us as a "small club" with limited ambitions.

I've marked your words Mark! The Kreuger interview, accurately described by Guan as "tone deaf", is the most deflating event of the past season and a half - and that's saying something.

Can I just add something to this..... apparently (well I know at least 1 person is and I’d imagine whispers go round) a number of people are a bit ****ed off that Kelv “unjustifiably & unwarranted” promotion to the first team. Especially when, as you’ve said, others who apparently do a decent job, struggle to get any sort of pay rise at the moment.

Perhaps it depends who your agent is?

I'm really not sure what people were expecting re:Gao's investment into the club? Many of us that have been close to the buy out have been repeating for a long time (even pre buyout) that's it's not a good thing.

 

Gao isn't interested in the football side of things and that this is an investment about bringing his company into Southampton to do building work and infrastructure work.

 

We're just an easy in to the city, and a relatively cheap buy for getting influence and leverage in Southampton.

 

Obviously most people have ignored this because they don't want to believe it, but it's the truth, hence why i warned before the buyout it was a bad thing.

 

My only hope is that the club having premier league status is of importance to the way he's seen in China which forces him to act, but i'm not holding my breath, and i'm definitely not expecting anything in terms of investment on the football side of things.

 

What Guan has been saying about things taking backwards steps rings true about many things, although Guan if i can address you directly there are a couple of things that i'm interested in, firstly i know that non playing staff have had "issues" with getting pay rises, is that one of the things that's causing the leavers? And i assume new hires are being taken on at a lower rate?

 

The other part is something you said about Krueger flying in, i'm sorry but that doesn't ring true to me (i need to be careful here) but I know for a fact he's had meetings in Southampton pre xmas (semi regularly) as has Gao as i know someone involved in those meetings. I also know that those meetings stopped for two weeks because "football business" (translation VVD) had taken precedence.

 

Of course the board etc. do conferences, and from what i understand some of the senior members have been setting up something along the lines of our academy in China recently, but they're also actively working with people in Southampton Football club and in the city, particularly around the integration of the board and Gao's.

 

So i'm interested to know Guan if that's what you're alluding to? Or are you speaking longer term/historically.

 

Last post of the day from me sorry.

Having read the Kreuger interview, I begin to lose hope. Although I disagreed with some of the things that he said and did, it is at times like these that I long for the Cortese days. Someone who had a clear vision for the club, always put us first and never regarded us as a "small club" with limited ambitions.

I think the main difference may be that in Cortese and Marcus you had an owner and CEO who had the same vision and a relationship based on 100% trust and honesty. Reading between the lines I get the impression that the relationship between Kreuger/Reed and the owners is flakey to say the least. Sacking Puel and hiring Pelligrino were obviously two mistakes - I expect Krueger and Reed know that admitting that and asking their new boss for 'X' amount of millions to sort it out will mean they are out of a job. So as far as Krueger and Reed are concerned they might as well just carry on as we are and just hope we don't go down.

Sacking Puel and hiring Pelligrino were obviously two mistakes - I expect Krueger and Reed know that admitting that and asking their new boss for 'X' amount of millions to sort it out will mean they are out of a job. So as far as Krueger and Reed are concerned they might as well just carry on as we are and just hope we don't go down.

However if Reed and Krueger don’t take action and we are relegated at the end of the season, they have to explain to Goa why we have X amount of million for tv rights and so on. It might be cheaper to sack Pellegrino and spend some money on a decent manager then going down.

What a load of rubbish. He hasn't spent £200m to buy the club to make it easier to do building work in Southampton, f**ks sake

Ji SHeng Gao has not spent £200m, he's spent a small amount of his own money and financed the rest of it, and I expect that his personal exposure to any debt is minimal. Unlike Markus this was a purchase made with his head and not his heart and this can only support Bunsen and Beaker's style of management and embolden them, and yes focusing just on opportunities in Southampton is BS but this was a purchase made for business reasons.

However if Reed and Krueger don’t take action and we are relegated at the end of the season, they have to explain to Goa why we have X amount of million for tv rights and so on. It might be cheaper to sack Pellegrino and spend some money on a decent manager then going down.

But if admitting that sacking Puel and hiring Pelligrino were two massive mistakes (which cost their new boss money) means they get sacked then they might as well just risk taking us down anyway because for them the end result is the same - being sacked. Maybe blaming VVD and hoping Pello pulls of a miracle is the only way they keep their jobs?

I swear we must be missing something , ask yourselves this .

What chairman of any company would issue a statement that intentionally down values the company under his control and why would he do it ??

Kruegar stated

We are a small club (five times in the interview)

We have limited ambitions and capability

Our main asset (the stadium) is in need of refurbishment

The asset and the club was clearly valued at circa 250m when Kat jumped ship 200m plus 20pc

I reckon that figure now is south of 200m and will reduce further if we are relegated.

That interview was not for the fans it didnt address anything we are concerned about , it was to serve another purpose and was addressed to the owner .

another agenda we are not aware of is at work here , Ralph Kruegar is not stupid , he is fiercely strategic in everything he says and does .........this would have been planned not off the cuff

I swear we must be missing something , ask yourselves this .

 

What chairman of any company would issue a statement that intentionally down values the company under his control and why would he do it ??

 

Kruegar stated

 

We are a small club (five times in the interview)

We have limited ambitions and capability

Our main asset (the stadium) is in need of refurbishment

 

The asset and the club was clearly valued at circa 250m when Kat jumped ship 200m plus 20pc

 

I reckon that figure now is south of 200m and will reduce further if we are relegated.

 

That interview was not for the fans it didnt address anything we are concerned about , it was to serve another purpose and was addressed to the owner .

 

another agenda we are not aware of is at work here , Ralph Kruegar is not stupid , he is fiercely strategic in everything he says and does .........this would have been planned not off the cuff

I expect he was trying reduce the pressure on the manager by lowering expectations of a fan base that has been fed pipe dreams by Cortese for years.

I expect he was trying reduce the pressure on the manager by lowering expectations of a fan base that has been fed pipe dreams by Cortese for years.

On that basis, was he lowering those expectations to the point of 'we are probably going down'.

Dunno, but compared to Liverpool we are a small club, no point pretending otherwise.

I swear we must be missing something , ask yourselves this .

 

What chairman of any company would issue a statement that intentionally down values the company under his control and why would he do it ??

 

Kruegar stated

 

We are a small club (five times in the interview)

We have limited ambitions and capability

Our main asset (the stadium) is in need of refurbishment

 

The asset and the club was clearly valued at circa 250m when Kat jumped ship 200m plus 20pc

 

I reckon that figure now is south of 200m and will reduce further if we are relegated.

 

That interview was not for the fans it didnt address anything we are concerned about , it was to serve another purpose and was addressed to the owner .

 

another agenda we are not aware of is at work here , Ralph Kruegar is not stupid , he is fiercely strategic in everything he says and does .........this would have been planned not off the cuff

This possibly the most hopeful snippet of insight yet!

Its that or we're screwed though:lol:.

Dunno, but compared to Liverpool we are a small club, no point pretending otherwise.

Ji SHeng Gao has not spent £200m, he's spent a small amount of his own money and financed the rest of it, and I expect that his personal exposure to any debt is minimal. Unlike Markus this was a purchase made with his head and not his heart and this can only support Bunsen and Beaker's style of management and embolden them, and yes focusing just on opportunities in Southampton is BS but this was a purchase made for business reasons.

Apart from that, you're spot on.

What a load of rubbish. He hasn't spent £200m to buy the club to make it easier to do building work in Southampton, f**ks sake

Indeed, completely ridiculous suggestion. It's not like there aren't large swathes of the city just begging to be knocked down and developed if anyone actually thought it would generate a decent return. Far more likely that borrowing to invest in a football club with (assuming PL status) large guaranteed annual revenue to pay off the debt is a good way of quickly building up a sizable asset in a comparatively stable economy.

Ralph is embarrassing.

Don't know what he does in the background and hence cannot comment on whether he is useful to have around or not.

But one thing is for certain, he should be banned from doing media interviews.

Ralph is embarrassing.

 

Don't know what he does in the background and hence cannot comment on whether he is useful to have around or not.

 

But one thing is for certain, he should be banned from doing media interviews.

I imagine that as he`s rumoured to be Chairman he`d have to ban himself?

Reading all the above especially Guan's comments is thoroughly depressing, this club is a complete clusterf*ck atm.

Indeed, completely ridiculous suggestion. It's not like there aren't large swathes of the city just begging to be knocked down and developed if anyone actually thought it would generate a decent return. Far more likely that borrowing to invest in a football club with (assuming PL status) large guaranteed annual revenue to pay off the debt is a good way of quickly building up a sizable asset in a comparatively stable economy.

Yes, I agree. Football is (still) a growth industry in a world economy where lots of industries are struggling.

Successful multi-millionaires aren’t the sort of people who see failure happening and just sit back and let it carry on.

I’m sure Mr Gao is desperate to see his asset increase in value. That is massively dependent on staying in the Premier League and increasing the value of the Saints brand (especially in Asia). This will simply not happen in the Championship (unless he buys a load of big name Asian players and spends lots of money to ensure we get promoted again and even that would be riskier and more expensive than avoiding getting relegated in the first place).

I think the chance of Gao not caring about our performance on the pitch is pretty much zero. He won’t just sit back as he sees Les, Ralph and/or Pellegrino (in his judgement) failing to grow his asset.

I think the least he will do is bring in his own Chief Executive. Someone who’s worked for him previously who he trusts.

Regarding building in Southampton, there’s been loads of large building projects over the last few years and those companies seemed to persuade the Council to grant them planning permission without having to buy a football club first.

Perhaps i was being to obtuse here but i really do have to be careful (and i think Guan got what i was on about) but lets just say you're being a bit insular in where the leverage is applied when talking investments in the city.

If you want more information look into the reasons why Championship clubs are getting investments from China, there's a hell of a lot of information out there and we're not much different to be honest.

Having read the Kreuger interview, I begin to lose hope. Although I disagreed with some of the things that he said and did, it is at times like these that I long for the Cortese days. Someone who had a clear vision for the club, always put us first and never regarded us as a "small club" with limited ambitions.

Well said. He might have been a nasty little ***** but he was our nasty little *****, and he would have put up with absolutely none of the 5h1t that players and certain other clubs have thrown our way the last few seasons. I have a nasty feeling that Kat has sold us off down the river. Oh well, it was fun while it lasted...

This article is very good by the way https://www.policyforum.net/the-guanxi-of-football/

Perhaps i was being to obtuse here but i really do have to be careful (and i think Guan got what i was on about) but lets just say you're being a bit insular in where the leverage is applied when talking investments in the city.

 

If you want more information look into the reasons why Championship clubs are getting investments from China, there's a hell of a lot of information out there and we're not much different to be honest.

You're being obtuse to the point of not saying anything now.

Not aware that Tony Xia and the West Brom guy have followed up their purchases with announcement of infrastructure investment into Birmingham/the Black Country but I am not an expert so let me know.

Elsewhere, China have invested big style into Sheffield

https://www.theguardian.com/society/2016/jul/21/sheffield-lands-billion-pound-china-deal-to-create-hundreds-of-jobs

Total football clubs purchased to make this happen: zero.

This article is very good by the way https://www.policyforum.net/the-guanxi-of-football/

If by very good you mean entirely speculation then yeah, great.

Well said. He might have been a nasty little ***** but he was our nasty little *****, and he would have put up with absolutely none of the 5h1t that players and certain other clubs have thrown our way the last few seasons. I have a nasty feeling that Kat has sold us off down the river. Oh well, it was fun while it lasted...

Cortese would have had little to no say in who Kat sold us to - I'm sure he would have put forward his recommendations, although from what i'm led to believe they have no relationship at all, so I very much doubt she would have listened.

Cortese done many good things whilst at the club (mostly on the pitch as he pretty much ****ed everyone off, off it) and would be the perfect man to come in if our new owners had a never ending supply of money and he wasn't such a ****.

People can want / pray for him to return as much as they like (it won't happen), the reality is, he'd still have the same amount of money to spend as who we currently have in charge.. and lets be honest not all his decisions were good ones (Osvaldo, Gaston).

I do agree that we need someone to come in and take charge of the situation - Les and Ralph both have far to much power to do as they please and have practically no one to report in to. As long as they are making money, the owners are happy.

You're being obtuse to the point of not saying anything now.

 

Not aware that Tony Xia and the West Brom guy have followed up their purchases with announcement of infrastructure investment into Birmingham/the Black Country but I am not an expert so let me know.

 

Elsewhere, China have invested big style into Sheffield

 

https://www.theguardian.com/society/2016/jul/21/sheffield-lands-billion-pound-china-deal-to-create-hundreds-of-jobs

 

Total football clubs purchased to make this happen: zero.

It doesn't detract from your point about football, but that Sheffield deal's gone tits-up recently.

It doesn't detract from your point about football, but that Sheffield deal's gone tits-up recently.

Ha! fair enough, I only saw it when I was googling Tony Xia's name.

Clearly they should have invested in the Blades first then it would all be fine.

Kreuger's words are mostly mealy mouthed platitudes of well worn political/bureaucratic cliches and BS

That was evident from Day 1 of his tenure here. Don't you know he has used corporate speak for so long that probably he actually believes his own bull**** now which is surely a sign of impending madness?

completely cant stand krueger. all he seems to do is talk zero content nonsense

Yes, I agree. Football is (still) a growth industry in a world economy where lots of industries are struggling.

 

Successful multi-millionaires aren’t the sort of people who see failure happening and just sit back and let it carry on.

 

I’m sure Mr Gao is desperate to see his asset increase in value. That is massively dependent on staying in the Premier League and increasing the value of the Saints brand (especially in Asia). This will simply not happen in the Championship (unless he buys a load of big name Asian players and spends lots of money to ensure we get promoted again and even that would be riskier and more expensive than avoiding getting relegated in the first place).

 

I think the chance of Gao not caring about our performance on the pitch is pretty much zero. He won’t just sit back as he sees Les, Ralph and/or Pellegrino (in his judgement) failing to grow his asset.

 

I think the least he will do is bring in his own Chief Executive. Someone who’s worked for him previously who he trusts.

 

Regarding building in Southampton, there’s been loads of large building projects over the last few years and those companies seemed to persuade the Council to grant them planning permission without having to buy a football club first.

You do realise all clubs are owned or run by multi millionaires don't you? They can't all "do something" to protect their investment and not be relegated..three will go down.

They have contingencies for that scenario and 200m is not a lot, it will be servicable for the foreseeable in what ever division.

West Brom are also under Chinese ownership? They are in free fall too.. And I think Aston Villa, Birmingham and Wolves are too..all championship..so being in the premier league doesn't seem to be the only thing that matters to them.

Wolves are flying obviously on the back of investment and Villa have invested in their playing squad but West Brom don't spend much more than they get in and Birmingham is just a car crash like us.

I wouldn't put too much faith in the " he has to do something to protect his investment"..he obviously wants to stay up But it won't be the end of his world if we don't. We just got 75m in and Les will be pointing out how much he can sell other players for in the event of going down.

It is what it is I am afraid..like West Brom, It's unlikely we will be "throwing" money at the problem this window IMO.