Concussion

Not sure if this should go here or in a different part of the forum, but as it's topical (re Hoedt) I thought I'd start it here. Mods, feel free to move if deemed necessary.

After Wesley Hoedt's head clash with Lukaku, with the latter being stretchered off & Hoedt now being sidelined with concussion, should football authorities be taking head injuries more seriously & doing something practical about it?

For example, shin guards have to be worn to [allegedly] prevent serious leg injuries. It's football, played with feet, so that makes sense.

However, it's also played with the head, so should head guards be introduced? Petr Cech wears one and he's 'just' a goalie - least likely player on the pitch to use the head directly.

Should they even be a requirement? I can see a point in the future when they will be - why wait?

As a former 'youth rugby' ref, I saw how seriously rugby authorities welcomed laws on concussion. Head guards are still optional in rugby, but the game is not officially played with the head, even if players' heads are crucially involved at times (eg. in scrums).

Are there laws of the game requiring minimum time off when concussion is diagnosed, like in rugby?

Football authorities are notoriously slow at introducing anything which might interfere with the 'purity' of the game, but surely.. SURELY, they should be moving forward with player safety?

Daily Mail have been running a campaign for years about concussion...although that has more to do with heading the ball. Occupational hazard...no need for 'elf & safety!

It’s an interesting topic and one that is going to get a lot more discussion.

Cech wears one because he got his skull caved in at Reading and now has to for medical reasons. The issue will be that headgear can lead to an advantage

Not sure if this should go here or in a different part of the forum, but as it's topical (re Hoedt) I thought I'd start it here. Mods, feel free to move if deemed necessary.

 

After Wesley Hoedt's head clash with Lukaku, with the latter being stretchered off & Hoedt now being sidelined with concussion, should football authorities be taking head injuries more seriously & doing something practical about it?

 

For example, shin guards have to be worn to [allegedly] prevent serious leg injuries. It's football, played with feet, so that makes sense.

However, it's also played with the head, so should head guards be introduced? Petr Cech wears one and he's 'just' a goalie - least likely player on the pitch to use the head directly.

Should they even be a requirement? I can see a point in the future when they will be - why wait?

 

As a former 'youth rugby' ref, I saw how seriously rugby authorities welcomed laws on concussion. Head guards are still optional in rugby, but the game is not officially played with the head, even if players' heads are crucially involved at times (eg. in scrums).

 

Are there laws of the game requiring minimum time off when concussion is diagnosed, like in rugby?

 

Football authorities are notoriously slow at introducing anything which might interfere with the 'purity' of the game, but surely.. SURELY, they should be moving forward with player safety?

Not wanting to take off on a tangent but a see that in the US they have banned kids from heading the ball - on TV this morning they had a section on dementia caused by heading and links to that ref Jeff Astle.

I can see a time where it may well be banned due to court cases etc which is where the US kids ban is coming from.

I think whenever we leave the house we should all wrap ourselves in 3 foot thick bubble wrap.

Just in case.

Not wanting to take off on a tangent but a see that in the US they have banned kids from heading the ball - on TV this morning they had a section on dementia caused by heading and links to that ref Jeff Astle.

I can see a time where it may well be banned due to court cases etc which is where the US kids ban is coming from.

Jeff Astle headed a really heavy ball for his whole career. The balls nowadays are so much lighter, but whether they can cause damage over a long period, I really don't know.

Jeff Astle headed a really heavy ball for his whole career. The balls nowadays are so much lighter, but whether they can cause damage over a long period, I really don't know.

but so did Ron Davies?

Jeff Astle headed a really heavy ball for his whole career. The balls nowadays are so much lighter, but whether they can cause damage over a long period, I really don't know.

No-one does there is a lot of research and results still needed. It was a bugger heading those laces though....

Obviously concussions are a major issue in the NFL, and I know Rugby Union is now taking it far more seriously.

Here is an interesting interview with Larry Johnson, an NFL RB from the 00's. One of the main illnesses from playing in the NFL is CTE, caused by repeated head trauma's, but can only be tested for after death. Out of 111 tests, 110 deceased NFL players had the disease.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/american-football/42364622

After Aaron Hernandez took his life earlier in the year (he was in prison for killing Odin Lloyd, his friend) his brain was also tested and he had the disease - he was 27 at the time and had been out of the league for 4 years. His wife has sued both the Patriots and the NFL for causing his death as he had very advanced symptoms, very early in life.

I would be very surprised if this wasn't something that was suffered by a number of football players - certainly from bygone era's.

Jeff Astle headed a really heavy ball for his whole career. The balls nowadays are so much lighter, but whether they can cause damage over a long period, I really don't know.

That's factually correct in comparison with the current light balls. In reality the leather ball was replaced in professional football in the fifties with the plastic coated much lighter ball as it didn't absorb water as with the original leather uncoated and probably laced ball. It then didn't become heavy especially as a new ball was used every match.

Let them run it off (as my old PE teacher said to a classmate who, it later transpired, had broken his back).

Let the snowflakes run it off - if they blow their brains out with a handgun in later life to escape the effects of CTE, then that's their choice.

That's factually correct in comparison with the current light balls. In reality the leather ball was replaced in professional football in the fifties with the plastic coated much lighter ball as it didn't absorb water as with the original leather uncoated and probably laced ball. It then didn't become heavy especially as a new ball was used every match.

Good info Derry. I didn't think balls improved that much until the Mitre Multiplex, I think much later than the fifties/sixties.

in both codes of rugby, it is compulsory for a player with involved with a head clash to leave the pitch for a head injury assessment (HIA). Maybe this should be brought in in football as well. You get a free substitution/replacement as long as the player passes the assessment and returns to the field of play within 15 minutes. Obviously, Wesley should not have continued to play.

There is a lot of noise around this at the moment, especially highlighted by the BBC documentary. From what I understand, they just cannot say either way (happy to be correct on that one though).

What can you do though? You simply cannot take heading out of the game but if proven, you cannot let it continue. I do think that the footballing world are taking steps in the right direction though (can only play on under doctors advice ect..)

It's concerning, not just for those in the professional game, but for those at grass roots level who (most) won't have the financial support later on in life for care ect...

Let them run it off (as my old PE teacher said to a classmate who, it later transpired, had broken his back).

 

Let the snowflakes run it off - if they blow their brains out with a handgun in later life to escape the effects of CTE, then that's their choice.

Utterly moronic ().

No, in the middle fifties, I used to sell penny on the ball tickets and there were balls around all plastic coated whilst the balls we used were the old brown leather or lighter coloured panelled balls but uncoated and very heavy when wet.

in both codes of rugby, it is compulsory for a player with involved with a head clash to leave the pitch for a head injury assessment (HIA). Maybe this should be brought in in football as well. You get a free substitution/replacement as long as the player passes the assessment and returns to the field of play within 15 minutes. Obviously, Wesley should not have continued to play.

George North didn't take much notice of that!

It's something The FA are taking very seriously and due to work alongside the PFA with in the next few months.

Expect to hear more soon.

It's something The FA are taking very seriously and due to work alongside the PFA with in the next few months.

 

Expect to hear more soon.

Think Shearer did some work and documentary on it recently.

in both codes of rugby, it is compulsory for a player with involved with a head clash to leave the pitch for a head injury assessment (HIA). Maybe this should be brought in in football as well. You get a free substitution/replacement as long as the player passes the assessment and returns to the field of play within 15 minutes. Obviously, Wesley should not have continued to play.

I don't wish to pussyfy the game, but in the case of a clash of heads, both players should leave the field for an assessment. The pace and power of players these days makes for more danger. I like the idea of a temporary substitute, which becomes permanent after 15 minutes.

The main issue I wanted to raise was about clashes of heads, accidental or otherwise (headgear might reduce the pathetic 'nutting' by irate players).

Nevertheless, I'm aware repeated heading of the ball has now been investigated as a cause of brain injuries: Cf. Astle, Nicholl & Shearer (and yes, it's an 'occupational hazard' - maybe all professional players should sign a disclaimer?! ). I hated heading those old leather bombs.

It’s an interesting topic and one that is going to get a lot more discussion.

 

Cech wears one because he got his skull caved in at Reading and now has to for medical reasons. The issue will be that headgear can lead to an advantage

Yes, this will be an issue - those Adidas Predator boots were controversial for similar reasons, weren't they? Hence laws of the game would need to incorporate performance limits.

I don't wish to pussyfy the game, but in the case of a clash of heads, both players should leave the field for an assessment. The pace and power of players these days makes for more danger. I like the idea of a temporary substitute, which becomes permanent after 15 minutes.

Excellent comment & idea.

However, someone on another thread mentioned 'delayed concussion' (Hoedt may have got this), which would cause interesting medical discussions on the sideline - don't get Mourinho involved!

No, in the middle fifties, I used to sell penny on the ball tickets and there were balls around all plastic coated whilst the balls we used were the old brown leather or lighter coloured panelled balls but uncoated and very heavy when wet.

As I remember it plastic coated balls were introduced in the mid sixties. We certainly used them at university in 1968.

My dad played amateur football in the Athenian and Isthmian Leagues and he told me that if the ball was wet he refused to head it. He also advised me not to head the ball when I played. I ignored his advice but to be honest I probably missed more than I headed.

Not sure what you can do about heading really? Headgear for all doesn't really seem viable and headgear is really to protect against isolated catastrophic injury - it doesn't offer protection against repeated blows and the effects thereof. In male amateur boxing, headguards have been ditched as they just make the head heavier and seem to lead to increased risk of concussion.

The only feasible way to reduce the impact of heading is to regulate heading itself in the rules or somehow make the ball very light. Perhaps a rule that goal kicks or free kicks within the defending team's own half can't be headed?

Hopefully, long-term head injuries through football are a thing of the past linked to the heavier balls but if it turns out that they are not then it will need some careful thought.

Think Shearer did some work and documentary on it recently.

Yeah, which promotes the associations to fund research.

As I remember it plastic coated balls were introduced in the mid sixties. We certainly used them at university in 1968.

 

My dad played amateur football in the Athenian and Isthmian Leagues and he told me that if the ball was wet he refused to head it. He also advised me not to head the ball when I played. I ignored his advice but to be honest I probably missed more than I headed.

It was about 1955/6 when we sold the penny on the ball tickets because during that season we won a match ball which was orange plastic coated which we used for kick abouts .

Obviously concussions are a major issue in the NFL, and I know Rugby Union is now taking it far more seriously.

 

Here is an interesting interview with Larry Johnson, an NFL RB from the 00's. One of the main illnesses from playing in the NFL is CTE, caused by repeated head trauma's, but can only be tested for after death. Out of 111 tests, 110 deceased NFL players had the disease.

 

http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/american-football/42364622

 

After Aaron Hernandez took his life earlier in the year (he was in prison for killing Odin Lloyd, his friend) his brain was also tested and he had the disease - he was 27 at the time and had been out of the league for 4 years. His wife has sued both the Patriots and the NFL for causing his death as he had very advanced symptoms, very early in life.

 

I would be very surprised if this wasn't something that was suffered by a number of football players - certainly from bygone era's.

Obviously concussions are a major issue in the NFL, and I know Rugby Union is now taking it far more seriously.

 

Here is an interesting interview with Larry Johnson, an NFL RB from the 00's. One of the main illnesses from playing in the NFL is CTE, caused by repeated head trauma's, but can only be tested for after death. Out of 111 tests, 110 deceased NFL players had the disease.

 

http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/american-football/42364622

 

After Aaron Hernandez took his life earlier in the year (he was in prison for killing Odin Lloyd, his friend) his brain was also tested and he had the disease - he was 27 at the time and had been out of the league for 4 years. His wife has sued both the Patriots and the NFL for causing his death as he had very advanced symptoms, very early in life.

 

I would be very surprised if this wasn't something that was suffered by a number of football players - certainly from bygone era's.

Boston University have a test that can be performed on patients when they are alive and this could have a massive affect on the length of time players stay in the NFL. It is very early but could well be implement sooner rather that later.

Another factor could be independent medical teams on match days as opposed to medical staff employed by a team. I think this is more a factor in the NFL than over here.

I think the wearing of head protection can be worse as it allow you to use your head as a weapon, much like brain injuries in Boxing from wearing bigger gloves