Saints 1 Palace 2 - Post Match

I’ve been trying to give MP a chance. Puel was right to be sacked and I believe much of the damage to the team was put in place by Puel, but without doubt the real disaster at the club has been the Les Reed strategy of sell and lose our better managers. It was always going to lead to relegation.

But back to MP. It was clear tonight that the little talent of players that are left are not playing for him and failed to raise their game. The half time team talk about it being a tough night but get out there and battle hard to secure a second goal and victory clearly didn’t happen for this vital 6 pointer.

I’ve no idea who to replace him with, but I’m afraid with him we’re going down. Sack him.

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Looked like he'd been crying I thought...put the poor man out of his misery.

After the abuse at Fulham he definitely will be crying

https://experimental361.com/2017/12/31/2017-league-table/

That league table is pretty galling. That's across two different managers as well. Squad is clearly lacking.

Will Pellegrino never learn that we do not have the competence to sit on a lead? We are simply not that good. God only knows how many games and points we have lost this season trying this ridiculous tactic

Baring a miracle ...get ready for the drop.

Like the players, my confidence has totally gone

Looking at it on Wikipedia (therefore I don't know how accurate it is, and I'm too tired to check), the win rates for our managers (in all competitions) are as follows....

Adkins - 54%

Pochettino - 38.3%

Koeman - 48.35%

Puel - 37.7%

Pellegrino - 17.4%

Obviously Adkins win rate is inflated by League 1/Championship results, but even if you remove him from the equation, it looks pretty damning for Pellegrino. The club will no doubt have such stats at their disposal, so it's staggering that Krueger was going the ol' VVD situation route earlier, as though it could account for such a disparity. Note: not that I'm saying that ~17% difference between Pellegrino and Puel/Pochettino is entirely his doing, there are obviously other factors as well, but why do the club think inaction is the answer to the problem? A lotta blind 'we'll turn it around' faith going on in the boardrooms at St.Mary's/whereverthef*ck.

Palace lost their first 7 games, ergo dropped the first 21 points.

 

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But that would only be a 21 point start if we had won all our first 7 games?

Looking at it on Wikipedia (therefore I don't know how accurate it is, and I'm too tired to check), the win rates for our managers (in all competitions) are as follows....

 

Adkins - 54%

Pochettino - 38.3%

Koeman - 48.35%

Puel - 37.7%

Pellegrino - 17.4%

 

Obviously Adkins win rate is inflated by League 1/Championship results, but even if you remove him from the equation, it looks pretty damning for Pellegrino. The club will no doubt have such stats at their disposal, so it's staggering that Krueger was going the ol' VVD situation route earlier, as though it could account for such a disparity. Note: not that I'm saying that ~17% difference between Pellegrino and Puel/Pochettino is entirely his doing, there are obviously other factors as well, but why do the club think inaction is the answer to the problem? A lotta blind 'we'll turn it around' faith going on in the boardrooms at St.Mary's/whereverthef*ck.

A win ratio of 17.4 % ? What other manager would survive that?

Secondly believing Shane Long will start scoring when he has scored once since Feb

Tadic and Redmond will turn their game around how likely is that ?

And Bertrand gesturing to the crowd being acceptable

The board will take this club down

To be honest the only thing about tonight was that we managed to score. Man Utd was also down to them having a poor day, not anything our manager did.

 

The difference tonight was that Palace have a manager that knows what he's doing and we don't but then you could say the same thing about umpteen other games this season. We have the worst manager in the prem and quite why the board can't see this is utterly baffling.

 

We can still get out of this self inflicted nightmare but only if the club:

 

A) Gets rid of MP right now and replaces him with a manager that believes in attacking football (I'm starting to forget what it's like to see 2 up front).

B) We get a proven goal scorer. Be prepared to spend big on a good spearhead, forget CH's, attacking mids etc - we MUST get a goalscorer or we're done. If we have any cash left over then strengthen elsewhere but goals should be the boards overwhelming priority.

 

If we do go down it will have to go down as the biggest case of self inflicted damage in the club's history. We should be nowhere the relegation zone, it's quite incredible how badly managed the team has been.

Yes indeed. It's so bloody obvious, a new manager and a goalscorer. And if Reed and co. don't see this they are incompetent beyond belief.

Just got home. I'm sure this point's been made many times in the preceding 7 pages but contrary to the BBC report crediting hodgson's substitutions what I saw was a fcking great hole where Hoijberg was.

Oh and I saw heads drop again. Unbelievable.

Thanks to SW railways just got in now. Haven’t read any comments on this thread, just going to add my own and apologies if it’s all been said earlier.

They were there for the taking tonight, they looked leggy and off colour. The fact we didn’t take advantage is ****ing criminal.

First half ok, second woeful. Tadic and Boufal shocking second half, Today was the day we needed them and they went missing. Long worked hard again, but second half was useless. Bertrand looked off the pace to me, and OR is a shadow of the player he was last season. PEH, played well and a shout out for Pied, who I thought did well considering his lack of game time. A proper professional imo.

The game was our whole season in 90 mins and it’s so predictable. Too safe, too nice, too one paced.

The manager now clearly needs to go, but I want to see 5 or 6 others follow him out the door. Our players attitudes and mental toughness is clearly lacking, the sooner some of them **** off the better.

Yet again our support was shocking, people ****ing off as soon as they scored the second. 10 minutes left, but they ****ed off. We truly are the worst supporters in the whole league. At least a third are a bunch of sky groupies and tourists. Shocking .

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I’ve been trying to give MP a chance. Puel was right to be sacked and I believe much of the damage to the team was put in place by Puel, but without doubt the real disaster at the club has been the Les Reed strategy of sell and lose our better managers. It was always going to lead to relegation.

 

But back to MP. It was clear tonight that the little talent of players that are left are not playing for him and failed to raise their game. The half time team talk about it being a tough night but get out there and battle hard to secure a second goal and victory clearly didn’t happen for this vital 6 pointer.

 

I’ve no idea who to replace him with, but I’m afraid with him we’re going down. Sack him.

 

 

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Doesn’t matter how you dress it - we’re performing like a relegation bound club. Yes the substitution of Hojburg was daft...MP is way in over his head. But good ol Les will let it drift...can’t sack his old Liverpool mate can he? Pretty much had enough of the club being run by amateurs who are happy to fleece me of £100’s without suitable investment.

Who wished for Pellegrino? Still at least some arrogant cocks can say I told you so thats all that matters

What do these have in common:

Nicholl -> Br*nf**t

Sturrock -> Wigley

Pearson -> Poortvliet

Puel -> Current clown

Four decent managers unfairly sacked, to be replaced by four disasters. 2 of those led to immediate relegation (and only MLT saved us with Br*nf**t), and a very real possibility of a third immediate relegation this time.

Many of us warned about this happening. It's not a case of "I told you so" and being arrogant cocks, because I wish we had been wrong and Claude's replacement would've turned out to be brilliant.

Get rid of the clown tomorrow, bring in someone like Nigel Pearson, along with a front man who scores, and we can still get out of this shit.

Looking at it on Wikipedia (therefore I don't know how accurate it is, and I'm too tired to check), the win rates for our managers (in all competitions) are as follows....

 

Adkins - 54%

Pochettino - 38.3%

Koeman - 48.35%

Puel - 37.7%

Pellegrino - 17.4%

 

PUEL OUT!

Have no doubt that Hughes would keep us up no problem. He's just been at Stoke too long and has been a bit unlucky with injuries and Saido not working out.

 

On basic competence he's Alf Ramsay compared to our bloke.

How soon can it be arranged?

With the 5 hour time difference only got to see the result and read the posts .no progression or any signs of MOPE learning from previous games not a clue. He needs to go SKD could do no worse why not team him with Nigel at least it would get most fans onside. Not back in UK til after Fulham game but the guy needs to go now the club needs huge boost in morale the team wont perform nor will the fans. The Leicester game atmosphere was bad before the goals because the fans expect to be entertained the rot has set in merely removing MOPE would lift the crowd .Puel went because of season ticket sales or was it a blind because club was being sold? If it was ticket sales then championship football should scare thehell out of them and would ruin all the previous work and the memory of Marcus.

MePo doesn't fear that he would be sacked. He said the problem is lack of confidence in saints.

MePo earned 1 point from ManU in an away game and thought that it was a brillant formation. He repeated the same formation in a home game against another relegation contender. What a joke. MePo is absolutely clueless. Is he repeating the same formation in every game whether home or away and against every team whether big 6 or relegation contenders so that he can ideally earn 1 point in every game?

What do these have in common:

 

Nicholl -> Br*nf**t

Sturrock -> Wigley

Pearson -> Poortvliet

Puel -> Current clown

 

Four decent managers unfairly sacked, to be replaced by four disasters. 2 of those led to immediate relegation (and only MLT saved us with Br*nf**t), and a very real possibility of a third immediate relegation this time.

 

Many of us warned about this happening. It's not a case of "I told you so" and being arrogant cocks, because I wish we had been wrong and Claude's replacement would've turned out to be brilliant.

 

Get rid of the clown tomorrow, bring in someone like Nigel Pearson, along with a front man who scores, and we can still get out of this shit.

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Can anyone think of a single player who has improved under MP?

A common feature of last nights games was dodgy decisions by linos and refs . Benteke off side for Palace equaliser , llorente way off side for Spurs first , ref bottling second yellow to spurs defender (who was then subbed) Ali diviing and not yellow carded etc perhaps it was the weather ???

Hoedt and Bertrand are the only two defenders in the squad who I feel are top 10 premier league quality rest are below average, People **** over Stephens and McQueen both are dreadful who have the odd good game, Yoshi and Stephens how many goals do they have to concede from poor marking before we realise they are a terrible pairing, the polish guy must be ****.

Sign a experience premier league CB ASAP, sign a decent winger asap and IMO we will be alright, Austin will keep us up if he stays fit as would Gabba if we can find a player who can see his runs better, however i am confident one of Tadic or Boufal will step but if we sign another flair winger with pace.

So this is all part of the ‘plan’ is it???? Must be some beauty of a plan!!!

Kruger talks as though every detail is planned out meticulously....

Well this is one plan that is clearly spiralling out of control...

When is Kruger going to apply the breaks ?

The best leaders know when plans need to be changed, the worst leaders keep digging the hole until the business goes bang....

Shout out to our inability to regularly score from corners or freekicks with the premier leagues greatest deadball specialist according to every commentator on every stream i listen to pinging them in.

The state of the pitch sums up the state of our club and how quickly we have fallen. Palace were terrible and we should have thrown everything at them but yet again the passing, decision making and determination was severely lacking - some of our football looked so bad that you wonder if the players threw the game.

Unless getting relegated is part of the new master plan then MP needs to be put out of his misery.

I can only think that the absence of Lemina indicates that he is the latest to have thrown his toys out the pram and maybe even refuses to play for this clown. Suspect he realises he's made a big mistake com jng here and wants out already. What else could it be?

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Shout out to our inability to regularly score from corners or freekicks with the premier leagues greatest deadball specialist according to every commentator on every stream i listen to pinging them in.

It's more likely that Saints will concede from one of their own corners.

The most depressing aspect of yesterday was Krueger ‘s interview. When I read it I didn’t know whether to laugh or cry. To be honest it was a bit of an insult considering what then followed at SMS.

The most depressing aspect of yesterday was Krueger ‘s interview. When I read it I didn’t know whether to laugh or cry. To be honest it was a bit of an insult considering what then followed at SMS.

Agreed.. until that interview we all felt there was some hope that MP might be removed if we failed to win against Palace.

But it just pretty much confirmed that the club aren't even considering his position.

Yes indeed. It's so bloody obvious, a new manager and a goalscorer. And if Reed and co. don't see this they are incompetent beyond belief.

Gabbiandini was a goal scorer when he came. What have we done to him?

Can anyone think of a single player who has improved under MP?

Hoijberg

Hoijberg

He's about the only one. And his reward was to be hauled off the pitch last night to leave a gaping hole in midfield.

Gabbiandini was a goal scorer when he came. What have we done to him?

Mostly gets thrown on when things are going badly these days.

Probably just needs a consistent run of starts.

Agreed.. until that interview we all felt there was some hope that MP might be removed if we failed to win against Palace.

But it just pretty much confirmed that the club aren't even considering his position.

But why aren't they? Does anybody know?

I was at the match and I wouldn't blame the players. Conditions were truly awful and we did well to play any football in the first half.

Their first goal was offside. I was right in line and everyone around me was dumbfounded that it was missed. It's on errors like that that teams get relegated.

But the game was won by Hodgson and lost by Pellegrino in their reading of the game, tactics in the second half and subs. RH knew he had to change and brought on fresh attacking legs as we were tiring. Not rocket science. We needed an immediate response to avoid losing the midfield. Lemina for Tadic should have been a no-brainer. But MP puts on Davis for JWP, just a swap, no shoring up at all. Then they score so we are forced into attacking changes. By all means bring on Gabbiadini but why take off our most effective DM and further concede the midfield?

Redmond was irrelevant. You could see by then heads had dropped with the players probably wondering why the headless chicken of a manager couldn't see the obvious and respond to help them do their job.

For me, the best managers make a difference during the game, and MP doesn't. I can't defend him.

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How many more examples of his utter utter uselessness do the board need to force them into action. Every time we go a goal up it's the ****ing same. Sit back, drop deeper, invite on the pressure. Opposition manager makes pro-active game-affecting substitutions our clueless **** only ever reacts, and always too late. They can't seriously be entertaining letting him spend money in the window, but Krueger's interview suggests he's going nowhere.

This

The worrying thing is that Kruger and Reed probably think everything is fine, we aren’t ruthless enough and it looks like it could cost us our place in the league, they’ve become arrogant and complacent.

The way our manager ****s himself whenever the opposition makes a tactical change is embarrassing.

See you at Fulham.

Can anyone think of a single player who has improved under MP?

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I can only think that the absence of Lemina indicates that he is the latest to have thrown his toys out the pram and maybe even refuses to play for this clown. Suspect he realises he's made a big mistake com jng here and wants out already. What else could it be?

 

 

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Thought the same during the dithering substitution.

Such an obvious sub to make, MoPe started to do it...then it didn't happen. Made me wonder if Lemina refused to come on.

Probably not though. SImply down to us being managed by a plonker.

Gabbiandini was a goal scorer when he came. What have we done to him?

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The worrying thing is that Kruger and Reed probably think everything is fine, we aren’t ruthless enough and it looks like it could cost us our place in the league, they’ve become arrogant and complacent.

 

The way our manager ****s himself whenever the opposition makes a tactical change is embarrassing.

 

See you at Fulham.

Ralph and Les will dither and dither till Feb before sacking him

The idea that Walcott or some other has been will save us is laughable .

No doubt it will be the last week in the window before any player arrives.

Thanks to SW railways just got in now. Haven’t read any comments on this thread, just going to add my own and apologies if it’s all been said earlier.

 

They were there for the taking tonight, they looked leggy and off colour. The fact we didn’t take advantage is ****ing criminal.

 

First half ok, second woeful. Tadic and Boufal shocking second half, Today was the day we needed them and they went missing. Long worked hard again, but second half was useless. Bertrand looked off the pace to me, and OR is a shadow of the player he was last season. PEH, played well and a shout out for Pied, who I thought did well considering his lack of game time. A proper professional imo.

 

The game was our whole season in 90 mins and it’s so predictable. Too safe, too nice, too one paced.

 

The manager now clearly needs to go, but I want to see 5 or 6 others follow him out the door. Our players attitudes and mental toughness is clearly lacking, the sooner some of them **** off the better.

 

Yet again our support was shocking, people ****ing off as soon as they scored the second. 10 minutes left, but they ****ed off. We truly are the worst supporters in the whole league. At least a third are a bunch of sky groupies and tourists. Shocking .

 

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I agree with everything you say until the last paragraph. Anybody who pays their hard earned cash to watch us play/not play is perfectly entitled to express their dissatisfaction at a poor performance in whatever way they see fit. Staying right up to the final whistle and cheering on the team regardless of the sh*t performance of the players not giving 100% is a great comfort to the Board, who will be encouraged to do nothing to fix things. Fans streaming out of the stadium en masse before the end of the match, falling attendance figures and half ST sales, loud booing at the final whistle are far more likely to get the message across that Pellegrino needs to be replaced.

It should be a comfort to the real fans though that when we are in the second division, most of those Sky groupies and tourists will have buggered off. The tourists can make a short trip to watch Bournemouth or Brighton playing the glory teams instead.

The manager has the timidity of a mouse and his team desperate to hear the final whistle at the start of the second half drop off and play the same way. Pellegrino is probably a very nice man but his timidity and stupidity and stubbornness will get us relegated.

We need a firebrand full of aggression and with the courage to get the team playing aggressively and importantly ditch the non scoring passers whose sole aim is to pass the ball get it back and pass it again. Those players who freeze in the last third who only look to pass the responsibility to someone else. It's not pass the parcel. Davis, JWP, Tadic, Redmond and to some extent Boufal are never going to get us the goals we need and never were. Boufal has ability but needs runners and support.

Our approach play is too slow and just neuters any forward runs, usually only Long, Austin or Gabbiadini make the runs and have to stop because the ball doesn't come and they are offside. Passing for the sake of it just allows the defences to get back and form up.

Stop playing just one striker and three passers plus two holding midfielders. The three passers have to be ditched. 4-2-3-1 just plays into these players hands and feeds their comfort. Time to go for it. Play one holding player, 4-1-4-1. Romeu holding, Lamina and Hojbjerg box to box, Boufal and Long wide and Gabbiadini up front. Stop the possession based play and get the ball forward quickly, not necessarily back to front but stop playing keep ball it doesn't work.

In the meantime get in three or four players, a centre back, aggressive attacking midfielders or strikers with a good scoring record, a quick big strong centre forward. everybody must have pace no slow coaches.

Gabbiandini was a goal scorer when he came. What have we done to him?

Pellegrino doesn't rate him. That's right, the manager of a relegation threatened side can't see the use of a player who a few months ago was centre forward for Italy.

Having said that, we could have Harry Kane up front and still not score goals.

If we really want change, and want the board to know the extent of our feelings, then it is very simple, we stay away. Next game live on sky, just head down to the pub and watch us lose there. Sky tv panning round an empty St Mary`s, except for the spurs fans, send s a powerful message. And without any fear of punishment to the club.

But will we do that, can we organise that, I doubt it. Personally (I am an ST holder) I would stay away, I may anyway, as the football is dross, leadership right from the top of the club is non existent, and half the players don`t care. So if nothing changes, just stay away. Simple

That game was lost by MP.

Terrible conditions that game was never going to be pretty. At one stage i thought it might be called off.

However 1st half the players did their job.

What on earth did he say at half time. Sit back give them a chance!!! Give me strength.

Zaha and Boufel were both nullified. It was a night for the strong and the resolute.

Hodgson knew strength was needed and made the changes.

What did MP do. Took off two battling midfielders (JWP was working hard) and brings on lightweight players.

The premier league is a tough league. The rules are first don't lose. When that equaliser went in he should have brought on McQueen and Lemina. Told the players to go toe to toe, accept the point keep Palace near us and move on. That's how you survive.

Very unhappy and off to Fulham Saturday. That won't be pretty either.

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Can't believe that I'm now actually ****ed off that we missed the bus with BFS, never thought I'd say that.

 

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The sad state of affairs is that at the time that people were talking about BFS, pretty much any manager could have come in and steered us to a midtable position. Because we have left it so late, we now may be faced with having to appoint a manager with a short term objective rather than getting the best manager to take the club forward in the long term.

How we laughed at Crystal Palace for getting rid of Frank de Boer so ridiculously early, and then turning to Roy Hodgson, of all people! to save them.

I was at the match and I wouldn't blame the players. Conditions were truly awful and we did well to play any football in the first half.

 

Their first goal was offside. I was right in line and everyone around me was dumbfounded that it was missed. It's on errors like that that teams get relegated.

 

But the game was won by Hodgson and lost by Pellegrino in their reading of the game, tactics in the second half and subs. RH knew he had to change and brought on fresh attacking legs as we were tiring. Not rocket science. We needed an immediate response to avoid losing the midfield. Lemina for Tadic should have been a no-brainer. But MP puts on Davis for JWP, just a swap, no shoring up at all. Then they score so we are forced into attacking changes. By all means bring on Gabbiadini but why take off our most effective DM and further concede the midfield?

 

Redmond was irrelevant. You could see by then heads had dropped with the players probably wondering why the headless chicken of a manager couldn't see the obvious and respond to help them do their job.

 

For me, the best managers make a difference during the game, and MP doesn't. I can't defend him.

 

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Yes good summary. I thought that in the first half the players largely won their individual battles on an awful night for football. I was hoping for the “ugly win” that often ends a losing run.

Hodgson, seeing that we we just sitting back and waiting for counter attack, decided to take a player out of the congested midfield and go 433. I expected MP to react and bring on Bednarek and go three centre backs. What happened? Absolutely nothing. Palace bossed the second half and that was their third game in five days.

I cannot believe we sacked a tactically astute, experienced manager in Puel and brought this guy in. Some of our thick fans who could not work out that the fag end of last season was unprecedented must be delighted with what they are seeing.

I was there in the days of Branfoot etc. We WILL go down unless there is the biggest transfer window we have ever taken part in, change the manager, or both.

That game was lost by MP.

 

Terrible conditions that game was never going to be pretty. At one stage i thought it might be called off.

 

However 1st half the players did their job.

 

What on earth did he say at half time. Sit back give them a chance!!! Give me strength.

 

Zaha and Boufel were both nullified. It was a night for the strong and the resolute.

 

Hodgson knew strength was needed and made the changes.

 

What did MP do. Took off two battling midfielders (JWP was working hard) and brings on lightweight players.

 

The premier league is a tough league. The rules are first don't lose. When that equaliser went in he should have brought on McQueen and Lemina. Told the players to go toe to toe, accept the point keep Palace near us and move on. That's how you survive.

 

Very unhappy and off to Fulham Saturday. That won't be pretty either.

 

 

 

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you totally nailed it. I couldn't believe it when he took off our 2 best (attacking) midfielders of the evening. Knew we'd lose it then.

 

I cannot believe we sacked a tactically astute, experienced manager in Puel and brought this guy in. Some of our thick fans who could not work out that the fag end of last season was unprecedented must be delighted with what they are seeing.

 

I was there in the days of Branfoot etc. We WILL go down unless there is the biggest transfer window we have ever taken part in, change the manager, or both.

You really believe that rubbish? Who wanted Pellegrino brought in? Why was it so unrealistic after the success of Pardew, Adkins, Poch and Koeman to expect better rather than this clown? Still you can say I told you so which seems more important to you!

I was there in the days of the Bates out protests...doesn't mean sacking Puel was wrong, replacing him with an inferior tool was.

Had we appointed Pellegrini when we had the chance - Europa league, stock as high as it had ever been we wouldnt be in this mess now.

Look at his record and tell me Puel was better than him?

The manager has the timidity of a mouse and his team desperate to hear the final whistle at the start of the second half drop off and play the same way. Pellegrino is probably a very nice man but his timidity and stupidity and stubbornness will get us relegated.

 

We need a firebrand full of aggression and with the courage to get the team playing aggressively and importantly ditch the non scoring passers whose sole aim is to pass the ball get it back and pass it again. Those players who freeze in the last third who only look to pass the responsibility to someone else. It's not pass the parcel. Davis, JWP, Tadic, Redmond and to some extent Boufal are never going to get us the goals we need and never were. Boufal has ability but needs runners and support.

 

Our approach play is too slow and just neuters any forward runs, usually only Long, Austin or Gabbiadini make the runs and have to stop because the ball doesn't come and they are offside. Passing for the sake of it just allows the defences to get back and form up.

 

Stop playing just one striker and three passers plus two holding midfielders. The three passers have to be ditched. 4-2-3-1 just plays into these players hands and feeds their comfort. Time to go for it. Play one holding player, 4-1-4-1. Romeu holding, Lamina and Hojbjerg box to box, Boufal and Long wide and Gabbiadini up front. Stop the possession based play and get the ball forward quickly, not necessarily back to front but stop playing keep ball it doesn't work.

 

In the meantime get in three or four players, a centre back, aggressive attacking midfielders or strikers with a good scoring record, a quick big strong centre forward. everybody must have pace no slow coaches.

Brilliant!

I vote Derry for our new manager ?