Guido Carrillo

Pelle did not have pace, Ricky Lambert wasn't the fastest either

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MMa9Vb6FX50 - 1st 3rd and 5th Monaco goals.

 

A toe-poke down the middle and 2 headers from 2 feet out.

Carrillo scored a hattrick for Monaco the other night. Adds a bit more to the fee??

 

Against local league opposition. Counts for zilch. I mean if Long scored 3 goals against Sholing or BAT what difference would that make?

Pelle did not have pace, Ricky Lambert wasn't the fastest either

Austin is hardly speedy gonzales either

So.. people already on his back, before he's even signed and kicked a ball for us.

If he doesn't have pace, what use will he be to us?

Yes Long has pace but he hardly ever scores.

So.. people already on his back, before he's even signed and kicked a ball for us.

What were you expecting. Even if we signed Ronaldo this place would be alight with people telling everyone what a terrible signing it was, so this guy doesn't stand a chance.

We are a good footballing side, but lack power and presence - this guy might be part of the solution.

Yes Long has pace but he hardly ever scores.

Long is almost perpetually offside when he gets a scoring chance. Surely the coaching people must be able to do something about that. Never by that much either.

What were you expecting. Even if we signed Ronaldo this place would be alight with people telling everyone what a terrible signing it was, so this guy doesn't stand a chance.

 

We are a good footballing side, but lack power and presence - this guy might be part of the solution.[/QUOTE]

 

Might be....which is why we shouldn't give Monaco money for him before we've seen what he can do in the PL. They paid about 9 million euros for him I believe and he hardly plays for them in the League. They'd probably willing to loan him to us for the rest of the season.

A 'target man' or 'hold up' type striker is all well and good if your midfield is busting a nut to get forward in support. We don't play like this, preferring to defend with a flat back 9 or trotting forward like ponies. Thus, unless he has a good goal scoring record (which he hasn't), I don't really see the point in this one.

. Now apparently we didn't replace Pelle and should have signed a striker on Jan 1st, despite spending 17m on Gabbiadini. I don't want to be the club that just ditches expensive signings like that and throws more money at the problem rather than focusing on decent coaching and management. That's a couple of steps away from having the chairman's son on twitter embarrassing himself about transfer links every 5minutes.

I agree we shouldn't be throwing money at the problem but I think the balance of the team is wrong. Linked to this is that Gabbiadini is a very different type of player to Pelle. What we miss is the ability to hold the ball up and bring others into play - that's not Gabbiadini's game, to often it bounces off him and back to the opposition. Pelle and Lambert before him were "sticky and flicky" players - they could control the ball well and lay it off to willing runners (both were excellent at this).

For what it's worth, I rate Gabbiadini - I think he's having a bit of dip in form and confidence at the moment (something both Pelle and Lambert weren't immune to) but he's shown that his movement and finishing can be sharp.

Austin is hardly speedy gonzales either

Nope but all 3 had decent strike rates at their respective clubs.

I'm sure we are relaxed about the situation.

 

I'm sure we will reinvest all of the £75m....

 

Over several windows.....

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I agree we shouldn't be throwing money at the problem but I think the balance of the team is wrong. Linked to this is that Gabbiadini is a very different type of player to Pelle. What we miss is the ability to hold the ball up and bring others into play - that's not Gabbiadini's game, to often it bounces off him and back to the opposition. Pelle and Lambert before him were "sticky and flicky" players - they could control the ball well and lay it off to willing runners (both were excellent at this).

 

For what it's worth, I rate Gabbiadini - I think he's having a bit of dip in form and confidence at the moment (something both Pelle and Lambert weren't immune to) but he's shown that his movement and finishing can be sharp.

My bold...

Herein lies the problem. We don't appear to have any of those in our team at the moment.

Heard it mentioned in the papers we only get 22 million up front plus 2 more payments each following year . Unsure if its true but it shows Saints lied about it being an upfront lump sum .

 

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Where did Saints lie?

Where did Saints lie?

Jeremy Wilson’s articles

It doesn't matter who we sign, this clown won't know how to fit them in. If we signed Sanchez and Aguero (I wish) he'd probably rotate them.

Heard it mentioned in the papers we only get 22 million up front plus 2 more payments each following year . Unsure if its true but it shows Saints lied about it being an upfront lump sum .

 

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How predictable

How predictable

If anyone still believes ANY of the club's PR then they seriously need to wake up.

They have lied to the fans since the second they got control from Cortese.

Heard it mentioned in the papers we only get 22 million up front plus 2 more payments each following year . Unsure if its true but it shows Saints lied about it being an upfront lump sum .

 

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And? We, like other clubs, rarely have to pay in any other manner than in instalments.

Heard it mentioned in the papers we only get 22 million up front plus 2 more payments each following year . Unsure if its true but it shows Saints lied about it being an upfront lump sum .

 

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If anyone still believes ANY of the club's PR then they seriously need to wake up.

 

They have lied to the fans since the second they got control from Cortese.

Yes, because there's no way the papers could be lying is there. But let's go ahead and slate the club anyway.

Even if it is true, staged payments are perfectly normal procedure and we would buy our players in exactly the same way. Very few transfers involve paying the whole fee up front, particularly ones of this size.

Heard it mentioned in the papers we only get 22 million up front plus 2 more payments each following year . Unsure if its true but it shows Saints lied about it being an upfront lump sum .

 

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If you are unsure whether it is true, how does it prove anything?

It is possible that saints seeded both stories, one for the fans, one for the other clubs, we can negotiate better deals ourselves if we are not obviously cash rich. It’s 70m guaranteed anyway, so great deal either way.

Staged payments is how it works. We weren't going to get a cheque for £70m on our doorstep. Anyone who thought that is a little bit dim.

I always take the 'up front sum' to mean guaranteed fee, so it's guaranteed we will receive £70m for example. It's not dependent on appearances or international honours etc.

As a buying club we would also not buy a player outright, I don't know who does in world football. Even Coutinho's transfer will be staged - possibly over the duration of his contract - in order to balance the large fee over a longer period of time. Even in the 'glory days' of Cortese, the signings of Osvaldo and Gaston for e.g were staged over a period of years, hence why we still had outstanding owing to Roma even once he had left on loan for the 10510th time.

Cortese is talked up here as a god and that it was all good when he was here, but he cost us a fortune. The Dani Osvaldo mess cost this club millions, we're not just talking the transfer fee, we're talking wages, contract cancellations, agent fees with all his loans etc. So as much as Cortese has been lauded up, he left us with an absolute mess to sort out right there.

Anyway, going off tangent a bit. Basically no football club receives a full transfer fee and neither do they spend the full transfer fee straight up.

Yes, because there's no way the papers could be lying is there. But let's go ahead and slate the club anyway.

 

Even if it is true, staged payments are perfectly normal procedure and we would buy our players in exactly the same way. Very few transfers involve paying the whole fee up front, particularly ones of this size.

The club leak whatever they want to the press as convenient.

I.e. our rumoured "Sturridge interest", or, "we've sold early and got £70m upfront, what a great deal we've struck" - now changed to "circa £20m up front"... Its just meaningless guff to suit whatever spin they are after in that particular week. Yet a lot of fans treat it as gospel.

The only thing fans need to remember, is the summer of discontent when the board said no players would be sold right up until the season ticket deadline lapsed... then they sold Lambert, Lallana, Lovren, Chambers, Shaw etc etc etc... Then they continued with this approach in most windows.

If fan's are going to follow the media, then they should not get distracted by the PR guff, and judge the club on what it actually does vs what they told the fans they would do. The track record isn't exactly fantastic for "open and honest communication" with the fans.

And I am not saying they speak specifically for the players. For example; if we have leaked its only £20m up front then it is clearly to try and get cheaper deals now that we've dropped a bollock and everyone knows we're loaded... Likewise most fans are probably happy to be mislead by the club provided the club does well. Its just another thing to beat the board with when they've mislead the fans historically, whilst at the same time not delivered in performances.

Heard it mentioned in the papers we only get 22 million up front plus 2 more payments each following year . Unsure if its true but it shows Saints lied about it being an upfront lump sum .

 

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Think you are showing a misunderstanding of what "up-front" means.

In VvD case we agreed - I think - £70m "up front" (i.e a guaranteed sum whatever happens) with a further £5m dependent on certain things (appearances, CL qualification etc)

The £70m will be paid in 3 stages of £23.3 million, with an "initial" ( NOT up front) payment being paid now and the rest in 12 and 24 months time. The £5m as and when the dependent circumstances arise.

Staged payments are the norm in transfers. It's also how we pay for players when we buy them so if, for example we wanted to buy 1x£75m player today (yeah, right) or 3x£25m players, it shouldn't affect our buying ability in any way.

No lies. nothing unusual, move along please.

Think you are showing a misunderstanding of what "up-front" means.

In VvD case we agreed - I think - £70m "up front" (i.e a guaranteed sum whatever happens) with a further £5m dependent on certain things (appearances, CL qualification etc)

The £70m will be paid in 3 stages of £23.3 million, with an "initial" ( NOT up front) payment being paid now and the rest in 12 and 24 months time. The £5m as and when the dependent circumstances arise.

 

Staged payments are the norm in transfers. It's also how we pay for players when we buy them so if, for example we wanted to buy 1x£75m player today (yeah, right) or 3x£25m players, it shouldn't affect our buying ability in any way.

 

No lies. nothing unusual, move along please.

Up front means up front as one lump sum figure. Anything else is installments spread over time.

Up front means up front as one lump sum figure. Anything else is installments spread over time.

No, it doesn't. If you by a car on finance you pay a deposit "up-front" and the rest as staged payments. One lump sum would be described as "outright".

The whole phrase "up front" indicates it's the first, initial, front (however you want to describe it) payment with more to come .

Had a look at this guy's goal record. 15 goals in 65 league appearances doesn't sound great at all, but this and last season he's got a fairly decent record; a goal every 104 minutes this season, one every 83 minutes last : https://www.transfermarkt.com/guido-carrillo/leistungsdatendetails/spieler/184672/saison//verein/0/liga/0/wettbewerb/FR1/pos/0/trainer_id/0/plus/1

For reference, only Charlie Austin out of the Saints squad has a better minutes per goal at 83 minutes per goal.

Not saying he'll be the silver bullet to solve all our problems but it's a fairly decent record for someone who doesn't play that much.

Yes Long has pace but he hardly ever scores.

I think thats more to do with the tactics MP employs which tends to see him everywhere except in the box where he is meant to be.

There were a few times against Fulham (out of our very few attacks) that saw us break wide only to reach the box without a single other saints player anywhere near it, in fact I remember one where long was somewhere over on the Right wing

Had a look at this guy's goal record. 15 goals in 65 league appearances doesn't sound great at all, but this and last season he's got a fairly decent record; a goal every 104 minutes this season, one every 83 minutes last : https://www.transfermarkt.com/guido-carrillo/leistungsdatendetails/spieler/184672/saison//verein/0/liga/0/wettbewerb/FR1/pos/0/trainer_id/0/plus/1

 

For reference, only Charlie Austin out of the Saints squad has a better minutes per goal at 83 minutes per goal.

 

Not saying he'll be the silver bullet to solve all our problems but it's a fairly decent record for someone who doesn't play that much.

Statistics are occasionally deceptive and this may well be one of those occasions. The bloke hardly plays for Monaco in the league and there are some right crap sides to score against when he does. We need to get him in on loan to see what he can offer before parting with any serious money for what may well be another damp squib. There is no conceivable reason at this time to pay a lot of money for another maybe player. Monaco paid 8.8 million for him and nothing he's done there has increased his value by an iota.

Not at all saying that this guy will be the player that changes things, I am sceptical, I don't think its unfair to comment on posters that may potentially be put off with spunking 20 million on this guy. His record hardly enthuses me with any real confidence. I have also seen him play a couple of times for Monaco, and never saw anything from him that made me excited in any way.

That said, Ive been banging on in the stands about how we need a target man of sorts, Benteke didn't pose us too many problems in front of goal against CPFC but what he did do is act as an outlet, and a magnet for defenders. Not only that he made sure that the ball stuck in our half when they got there, something that we have lacked all year. Its not our retention that a massive problem, well, not until recently when Ive personally seen our movement dwindle. Its the fact that the ball comes back to us too quickly after poor passes and a lack of being able to hold it up in the final half.

If Carillo can help with that aspect even a bit then it will help immeasurably. Pelle wasn't a world beater, but he was good at all the above, holding up, dragging defenders to him and winning headers, and that IMO is what we have missed over the last two seasons

Staged payments is how it works. We weren't going to get a cheque for £70m on our doorstep. Anyone who thought that is a little bit dim.

 

I always take the 'up front sum' to mean guaranteed fee, so it's guaranteed we will receive £70m for example. It's not dependent on appearances or international honours etc.

 

As a buying club we would also not buy a player outright, I don't know who does in world football. Even Coutinho's transfer will be staged - possibly over the duration of his contract - in order to balance the large fee over a longer period of time. Even in the 'glory days' of Cortese, the signings of Osvaldo and Gaston for e.g were staged over a period of years, hence why we still had outstanding owing to Roma even once he had left on loan for the 10510th time.

 

Cortese is talked up here as a god and that it was all good when he was here, but he cost us a fortune. The Dani Osvaldo mess cost this club millions, we're not just talking the transfer fee, we're talking wages, contract cancellations, agent fees with all his loans etc. So as much as Cortese has been lauded up, he left us with an absolute mess to sort out right there.

 

Anyway, going off tangent a bit. Basically no football club receives a full transfer fee and neither do they spend the full transfer fee straight up.

Exactly. I heard something on the radio last week that said the only reason why the deal didn't happen in the summer was because Saints were holding out for a larger fee upfront. They got what they wanted this time round and that's why he's gone.

Despite my frustration on how disappointing it has been to watch recent performances I try to keep an open mind on club matters.

There are many issues that need to be addressed but reflecting on the VVD situation, most of us fans didn't want him to leave and generally agreed that the strong stance on making him stay a Saints player was correct.

The general consensus is that if the club had sold VVD in the summer or to another club, the likely fee would have been around £60m

We appear to have received up to £75m for the player by hanging on until January.

Of course there may be a detrimental affect on team morale but from a financial perspective the club seems to have made the right decision.

What happens to the money is the unanswered question

Statistics are occasionally deceptive and this may well be one of those occasions. The bloke hardly plays for Monaco in the league and there are some right crap sides to score against when he does. We need to get him in on loan to see what he can offer before parting with any serious money for what may well be another damp squib. There is no conceivable reason at this time to pay a lot of money for another maybe player. Monaco paid 8.8 million for him and nothing he's done there has increased his value by an iota.

You would know better than me as it sounds as though you've seen far more than me; I've only briefly seen him if nothing else is on TV and stuck on BT Sport.

However, as Smirking Saint says, we do need a target man. The whole team seems to fit playing around a spearhead; whether or not Carrillo is the spearhead we need is another question.

If we buy a big centre forward this clown will play our usual five ball recyclers behind him, how's that going to work. With three proper forwards he might but the timid mouse won't deviate from his prized ball recycling. Won on Saturday with 42% possession he must have been disappointed.

I'm not sure we should be bringing in any player that is obviously recommended by this manager as he played for him at Estudiantes for two years. He just doesn't give me any confidence because of his tactics and lack of them, his team selections and most of all his substitutions that weaken the side.

Talking to a Birmingham supporting friend today, once business had been done and dusted, we moved onto the serious subject of football. Lots of his Blues mates are waiting for Gallagher to be called back by us given the pickle we are in. He said most of the season he had been played out on the wing where he was pretty ineffective, now he is being played in the centre he is playing where he should be and knocking them in.

Staged payments is how it works. We weren't going to get a cheque for £70m on our doorstep. Anyone who thought that is a little bit dim.

 

I always take the 'up front sum' to mean guaranteed fee, so it's guaranteed we will receive £70m for example. It's not dependent on appearances or international honours etc.

 

As a buying club we would also not buy a player outright, I don't know who does in world football. Even Coutinho's transfer will be staged - possibly over the duration of his contract - in order to balance the large fee over a longer period of time. Even in the 'glory days' of Cortese, the signings of Osvaldo and Gaston for e.g were staged over a period of years, hence why we still had outstanding owing to Roma even once he had left on loan for the 10510th time.

 

Cortese is talked up here as a god and that it was all good when he was here, but he cost us a fortune. The Dani Osvaldo mess cost this club millions, we're not just talking the transfer fee, we're talking wages, contract cancellations, agent fees with all his loans etc. So as much as Cortese has been lauded up, he left us with an absolute mess to sort out right there.

 

Anyway, going off tangent a bit. Basically no football club receives a full transfer fee and neither do they spend the full transfer fee straight up.

I'm sure you're 100% right on staged payments, but my question is "does it matter?"

We won't receive a cheque up front for £75m for VVD, but were we to sign, say, Theo Walcott for £30m, we wouldn't be expected to pay that up front either. Our outgoings would be staged in the same way as our transfer income.

On the history, Osvaldo and Ramirez were obviously very bad misfires, but on aggregate we seem to have been very smart on the transfer market, with the good acquisitions easily outweighing the bad ones.

No, it doesn't. If you by a car on finance you pay a deposit "up-front" and the rest as staged payments. One lump sum would be described as "outright".

 

The whole phrase "up front" indicates it's the first, initial, front (however you want to describe it) payment with more to come .

Liverpool have given us a massive chunk of the Van Dijk money up front. That was the reason we sold him to Liverpool. Hardly any of it will be getting paid in instalments. They were happy to do so as the knew the fee they were getting for Coutinho.

Liverpool have given us a massive chunk of the Van Dijk money up front. That was the reason we sold him to Liverpool. Hardly any of it will be getting paid in instalments. They were happy to do so as the knew the fee they were getting for Coutinho.

Perhaps we have not got it yet as they have only just been wired it by Barca.

Hoping when it gets in our bank Lesley can then purchase some players.

Talking to a Birmingham supporting friend today, once business had been done and dusted, we moved onto the serious subject of football. Lots of his Blues mates are waiting for Gallagher to be called back by us given the pickle we are in. He said most of the season he had been played out on the wing where he was pretty ineffective, now he is being played in the centre he is playing where he should be and knocking them in.

Sadly I suspect Les Reed has already started salivating over how much we can sell him for, rather than dreaming over his long term future for the our first team.

I'm sure you're 100% right on staged payments, but my question is "does it matter?"

 

We won't receive a cheque up front for £75m for VVD, but were we to sign, say, Theo Walcott for £30m, we wouldn't be expected to pay that up front either. Our outgoings would be staged in the same way as our transfer income.

 

On the history, Osvaldo and Ramirez were obviously very bad misfires, but on aggregate we seem to have been very smart on the transfer market, with the good acquisitions easily outweighing the bad ones.

Exactly! The only reason I can think of that would need money up front was if you needed cash to pay creditors to stop the business being wound up... UH OH

Could get Leigh Griffiths for around £7m... would rather make a move for a guy who can actually put the ball in the goal.

Could get Leigh Griffiths for around £7m... would rather make a move for a guy who can actually put the ball in the goal.

We have a 6ft 4inch fast centre forward who would cost nothing on bloody loan at birmingham knocking in goals .......someone tell les ffs

Agreed - I think the majority of fans would like to see him back here, see what he can do. Looks like the Brum fans are starting to warm to him now their manager is playing him as a CF.

Why are we thinking of spending good money on an iffy looking striker when we already have one that looks promising and plays in the same role?

Not saying we shouldn't get a CF in - we absolutely should - but get a proven one that we know can do the business and if we aren't prepared to do this then at least recall what we actually have got.

What were you expecting. Even if we signed Ronaldo this place would be alight with people telling everyone what a terrible signing it was, so this guy doesn't stand a chance.

 

We are a good footballing side, but lack power and presence - this guy might be part of the solution.

Can you see the irony here? You berate people for offering their opinions on his worth, yet you offer yours saying he might be part of the solution.

Maybe they have seen more of him than you have, perhaps?

Someone else is saying people are on his back before he has even arrived, yet all they are doing is expressing an opinion on what they have seen of him. If you have seen some evidence of his value maybe you could point us in the right direction.

Agreed - I think the majority of fans would like to see him back here, see what he can do. Looks like the Brum fans are starting to warm to him now their manager is playing him as a CF.

 

Why are we thinking of spending good money on an iffy looking striker when we already have one that looks promising and plays in the same role?

 

Not saying we shouldn't get a CF in - we absolutely should - but get a proven one that we know can do the business and if we aren't prepared to do this then at least recall what we actually have got.

Do we even have the option to recall him? Season-long loans usually don't have recall options.

Can you see the irony here? You berate people for offering their opinions on his worth, yet you offer yours saying he might be part of the solution.

 

Maybe they have seen more of him than you have, perhaps?

 

Someone else is saying people are on his back before he has even arrived, yet all they are doing is expressing an opinion on what they have seen of him. If you have seen some evidence of his value maybe you could point us in the right direction.

I genuinely have no idea how you have reached that conclusion on my post. I suggest you read the post, rather than postulate some thesis based upon what you think I said.

So anyway. Carrillo limped off with some sort of thigh injury after an hour of last night's cup game with Nice. No idea how serious it is or isn't.

Guardian's Ed Aarons:

Southampton still in talks with Monaco over a deal for Guido Carrillo. Striker has four goals this season

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I reckon this one is quite likely.