"Professional" fouls.

Anyone else see the wolves/swansea highlights and cheer when Fer got sent off? I have nothing against him or swansea, but I'm heartily sick of these cynical bastards taking out attacks early in midfield and getting away with nothing more than a yellow. I know the ref didn't apply the letter of the law but for me it's high time players stopped assuming they can just get away with these fouls, I hope more refs start twitching towards a red card for the really cynical fouls like that one.

Rant over.

Yes, that cheered me up too. There was some debate about whether it should have been a red card but there's no disputing that it was a straight kick, no attempt to play the ball whatsoever, and so comes under 'violent conduct' and not 'serious foul play'. It's in the same vein as an elbow to the ribs.

It was clearly not a red card and the ref made a ridiculous decision.

That said, there is some merit in saying that the laws of the game ought to provide additional sanction for fouls which are clearly purely cynical.

It was clearly not a red card and the ref made a ridiculous decision.

 

That said, there is some merit in saying that the laws of the game ought to provide additional sanction for fouls which are clearly purely cynical.

Why was it not a red? It was a delibertate kick and a red card is awarded if a player 'kicks or attempts to kick an opponent'. Just because the other player was running away does not mean that it was not a red card.If both players had been standing still then that kick wold have been a red. There was no way that it was an attempt at an honest tackle or interception.

Why was it not a red? It was a delibertate kick and a red card is awarded if a player 'kicks or attempts to kick an opponent'. Just because the other player was running away does not mean that it was not a red card.If both players had been standing still then that kick wold have been a red. There was no way that it was an attempt at an honest tackle or interception.

There are numerous deliberate trips in every match.

You know full-well why it isn't a red card by any stretch of the imagination.

Stop being a berk.

There are numerous deliberate trips in every match.

 

You know full-well why it isn't a red card by any stretch of the imagination.

 

Stop being a berk.

Go and take a refereeing course and learn the Laws before you call anybody a berk.

I ask again: what was different about this incident from just kicking somebody who's standing in front of you? It cannot be considered 'serious foul play'. Beckham got sent of for less against Argentina.

Go and take a refereeing course and learn the Laws before you call anybody a berk.

 

I ask again: what was different about this incident from just kicking somebody who's standing in front of you? It cannot be considered 'serious foul play'. Beckham got sent of for less against Argentina.

If someone has the ball and you kick the lower half of their leg you are not going to get sent off unless you stamp on them, use excessive force, go in two footed etc....

If they haven't got the ball then it's just a kick and you will get sent off. That's why Beckham got sent off, although it was more of a tap than a kick and could hardly be called violent so the red was harsh. It's not at all relevant to this discussion in any case.

The chap that Fer tripped had the ball. He wasn't lunging two-footed, he wasn't high, he didn't stamp, it wasn't with excessive force etc. It was a cynical trip. Yellow card

What you are saying is that all referees are applying the law incorrectly apart from this one trail-blazing hero.

If someone has the ball and you kick the lower half of their leg you are not going to get sent off unless you stamp on them, use excessive force, go in two footed etc....

 

If they haven't got the ball then it's just a kick and you will get sent off. That's why Beckham got sent off, although it was more of a tap than a kick and could hardly be called violent so the red was harsh. It's not at all relevant to this discussion in any case.

 

The chap that Fer tripped had the ball. He wasn't lunging two-footed, he wasn't high, he didn't stamp, it wasn't with excessive force etc. It was a cynical trip. Yellow card

 

What you are saying is that all referees are applying the law incorrectly apart from this one trail-blazing hero.

It wasn't a trip, he kicked his leg with no attempt to play the ball.

At what stage does it change from a yellow to a red?

If someone has the ball and you kick the lower half of their leg you are not going to get sent off unless you stamp on them, use excessive force, go in two footed etc....

 

If they haven't got the ball then it's just a kick and you will get sent off. That's why Beckham got sent off, although it was more of a tap than a kick and could hardly be called violent so the red was harsh. It's not at all relevant to this discussion in any case.

 

The chap that Fer tripped had the ball. He wasn't lunging two-footed, he wasn't high, he didn't stamp, it wasn't with excessive force etc. It was a cynical trip. Yellow card

 

What you are saying is that all referees are applying the law incorrectly apart from this one trail-blazing hero.

That's open to interpretation. He was certainly chasing after the ball, but I don't think he had possession of it (ie, control of it.) And Fer by definition cannot possibly have been challenging for the ball, it being yards ahead of the player he fouled, so Whiteys view is quite valid; it was a simple kick at a player. Don't get me wrong, I was as surprised by the red as anyone else, but these sort of fouls need to be penalised properly imho. I thought at the time the ref had probably got sick of seeing them in a niggly game, maybe it was just one too many for him to let go.

That's open to interpretation. He was certainly chasing after the ball, but I don't think he had possession of it (ie, control of it.) And Fer by definition cannot possibly have been challenging for the ball, it being yards ahead of the player he fouled, so Whiteys view is quite valid; it was a simple kick at a player. Don't get me wrong, I was as surprised by the red as anyone else, but these sort of fouls need to be penalised properly imho. I thought at the time the ref had probably got sick of seeing them in a niggly game, maybe it was just one too many for him to let go.

I was as surprised as anybody but as you say, the ball was a long way away and it was a deliberate kick.

Swansea have appealed the red. This will be an interesting hearing. Do the committee support the referee or are they going to give licence to everybody to go running round kicking other players just for the hell of it?

I thought it was a red. Not sure it would have been given if Wolves hadn't already been down to ten men though. We only saw highlights, if there had been a series of tit for tat niggly deliberate fouls following the first red the ref is entitled to upgrade to try and gain control and prevent injury to players.

Basically this incident was just making the game 10 v 10 again. Will look forward to all the red cards from holding midfielders pulling back/down players in counter attacks around the halfway line. I think commentators describe them as taking a yellow for the team. Well if this is what it is now, it will be taking a red for the team.

Not really, taking one for the team usually consists of holding/pushing/smothering/checking the breaking player, not nice, not sporting, but 'everybody' does it; Schneiderlin was a master of it. Totally different to deliberately kicking a player with no intention of playing the ball. I wouldn't be averse to a 5 minute sin bin for 'unsporting' fouls, somewhere between a yellow and a red card.

Not really, taking one for the team usually consists of holding/pushing/smothering/checking the breaking player, not nice, not sporting, but 'everybody' does it; Schneiderlin was a master of it.

I would want more of this kind of play, West Ham beating Chelsea was a masterclass in it, 5 yellow card in the last 30 mins, rotating the fouls, stopping all momentum and they take the win!

Only just seen the incident.

I agree that it should be a red. He is kicking an opponent.

If they were stood still opposite each other and he kicked him on the shins it would be a red.

The laws are not clear on this though I expect.

Deliberately kicked him, red card. Any fule no you pull them back in midfield, bolted on yellow, playbreaker. When we got caught on the break one time I held onto someone's shirt with two hands with him dragging me along a muddy pitch waterski-style until the ref finally tired of trying to play advantage and booked me.

Deliberately kicked him, red card. Any fule no you pull them back in midfield, bolted on yellow, playbreaker. When we got caught on the break one time I held onto someone's shirt with two hands with him dragging me along a muddy pitch waterski-style until the ref finally tired of trying to play advantage and booked me.

........and they say sportsmanship is dead..... :lol:

Anyway, for the record, I was obviously correct.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/football/42610243

Anyway, for the record, I was obviously correct.

 

http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/football/42610243

OK. Looks like 'everybody' is now entitled to have one free kick at an opponent, you don't have to be within playing distance of the ball, you don't have to even pretend to be playing for the ball, just boot the opponent when you have no intention or possibility of playing the ball, penalty.... yellow card. Really?

........and they say sportsmanship is dead..... :lol:

What's sportsmanship got to do with it? I once got sent off for pointing out the opposition's linesman was blatantly cheating on a number of not even close offside decisions, you'd have to ask him about sportsmanship...

OK. Looks like 'everybody' is now entitled to have one free kick at an opponent, you don't have to be within playing distance of the ball, you don't have to even pretend to be playing for the ball, just boot the opponent when you have no intention or possibility of playing the ball, penalty.... yellow card. Really?

Completely agree with you FWIW.

OK. Looks like 'everybody' is now entitled to have one free kick at an opponent, you don't have to be within playing distance of the ball, you don't have to even pretend to be playing for the ball, just boot the opponent when you have no intention or possibility of playing the ball, penalty.... yellow card. Really?

Yeah, that's how it has always been, which is why the ref made an error. If you kick, with the top of your foot, the back of someone's leg who is running away from you with the ball you will get booked unless you have denied a goal scoring opportunity and then you might get sent off.

If they don't have the ball you will get sent off. If it goes beyond a robust trip/knock on the back of the leg and is a studs-up / two footed / dangerous etc. you will get sent off.

I'm not saying it's correct but if that red card had stood it would have massively blurred the lines under the current way the laws are applied.

There is a case for introducing some sort of "orange" offence perhaps, which brings a sin-bin or some other sanction over and above a yellow, for "cynical" fouls but with the prevalence of shirt pulling and general sly behaviour in the game that would cause all manner of refereeing issues, I expect.

Under the current interpretation of the laws, the ref had no business getting the red card out.