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Thread: The latest telegraph article

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    Default The latest telegraph article

    From the usual bloke. Sounds very worrying to me and little acknowledgement of how poor we have been over the last two seasons. Definitely worth a read though but it does seem to me like our manager could finally get the chop if we lose to Watford.

    http://www.telegraph.co.uk/football/...llegrino-must/

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    Quote Originally Posted by hypochondriac View Post
    From the usual bloke. Sounds very worrying to me and little acknowledgement of how poor we have been over the last two seasons. Definitely worth a read though but it does seem to me like our manager could finally get the chop if we lose to Watford.

    http://www.telegraph.co.uk/football/...llegrino-must/
    Reads to me as Vvds fault , we have already spent loads , It's the Walcott deal or bust !

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    Nice PR by Sam 'Shill' Wallace. The first four paras alone are about VVD. Need to get over the woe-is-me b*****ks.
    Last edited by shurlock; 12-01-2018 at 02:59 PM.

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    Very good read, but very club led! As you say, they believe the model works, but it is up to MP to make sure it does, he is under scrutiny! Bit more than a 6 pointer for the manager now I would say! Also sounds like they haven't quite given up on Walcott either. Big day tomorrow

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    Also one in the eye of some of the odd posters on here who have been blaming the puel sacking on the fans.

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    Edit
    Last edited by shurlock; 12-01-2018 at 03:18 PM.

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    Worrying that they describe hoedt as the vvd replacement- was hoping for someone else.

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    Sounds to me like they are obsessed about being seen as a model club with the perfect system and have forgotten the fact that the most important person is always the manager - get that wrong and a club the size of Southampton will always be in a relegation fight.

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    Quote Originally Posted by hypochondriac View Post
    Worrying that they describe hoedt as the vvd replacement- was hoping for someone else.
    I thought Hoedt was Fonte's replacement?

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    Quote Originally Posted by aintforever View Post
    I thought Hoedt was Fonte's replacement?
    Not according to this article...

  11. #11

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    Essentially like the Pelle/Austin situation the replacement or lack of for Fonte can be argued various ways.

    What cannot be argued is that our CB options are as weak as for a long time, assuming VVD is not replaced.

    IMO each is currently promoted a choice level above where they should be.

  12. #12

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    Saints are relegation material because weve seen in most parts the worst 'coaching' for over a decade plus !

    The football has been as bad minus VVD, so that old chestnut can be quashed.

    Some might say doing youre paid job correctly isnt anything to shout about !

    Following Koemans departure there was a big change in ambition, i guess they wanted to have someone they could 'dictate more' and its clearly failed.

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    I wonder if we leaked that Forster and Redmond have been ****e or if he worked that out for himself.

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    Quote Originally Posted by benjii View Post
    I wonder if we leaked that Forster and Redmond have been ****e or if he worked that out for himself.

  15. #15

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    Quote Originally Posted by hypochondriac View Post
    Also one in the eye of some of the odd posters on here who have been blaming the puel sacking on the fans.
    It's almost like some of us were saying that Puel being sacked was because he'd lost the players isn't it?

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    Quote Originally Posted by hypochondriac View Post
    Also one in the eye of some of the odd posters on here who have been blaming the puel sacking on the fans.
    It's not though really, is it? It's one in the eye for fans that see these issues as black and white. There are always multiple factors at play - whether that be a transfer or a managerial decision. If you seriously think that the fans opinion doesn't matter (and consequently any knock in tickets, strongly worded letters of complaint, booing in the stand etc.) then I think that's a bit bonkers.

    Is it the only factor they would consider? They'd be weak if it was.

    My observation was that the atmosphere at home (once the cup-final high had faded) was one of frustration and voiced anger, directed mainly at Puel - to the point where I thought it likely the board would let him go in the summer. If you bring in other factors (tales of player unrest, asked to change but didn't then etc.) then that likelihood became the certainty that it did.

    If anyone looks at my posting history, I am more of a back 'em than sack 'em guy - and I thought he'd have to go because of fan unrest which means it must have been palpable.

    But these things are never about just one thing.

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    Quote Originally Posted by ericb View Post
    It's almost like some of us were saying that Puel being sacked was because he'd lost the players isn't it?
    Don't worry. To sensible posters that was always the most likely option.

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    A bit meh.

    I think our model DOES work...up to a point. Bring in decent, younger players, have them develop and sell on for a big fee; while competing in the top 10.

    The crux is that we make the right player choices....we do seem a little too hit and miss with this now. And that we coach them well, so they do develop....which seems to have gone of the rails somewhat. Oh, and that we play decent football for the fans...which again is missing.

    Oh....and to really make this work we need a manager who will buy into it and be good enough to the job. Um....yeah...think we've got a problem.

    I WANT our 'Way' to work...but it's reliant on lots of factors, and right now too many of them are underperfoming.

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    More club led propaganda.

    We have always believed our own ****, spouting off about academies and a team full of local lads, having our next 8 managers lined up, some mythical 'black box' that doesn't even exist.

    Taken our eye off the ball of the most important part - winning football matches with a competent manager. We've been utterly useless at doing both of those now for 18 months.

  20. Default

    Lots of back patting going on in that article. The most blatant club driven peice of propoganda that I have ever seen.

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    is this bit for real?

    In the past the club feel they have never sought to take credit publically for their dazzling recruitment successes, with £166 million of players sold to Liverpool alone since 2014. It is part of the reason why the likes of Les Reed, the most senior football executive, talk so rarely about their trading, with the plan being that the football speaks for itself – which it usually does.

    I love the way flogging half a squad to Liverpool is deemed something to celebrate...

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    Quote Originally Posted by aintforever View Post
    I thought Hoedt was Fonte's replacement?
    I thought Fonte's replacement was that long haired chap we signed last January but basically didn't play...

    Fortunately, we now have Stephens. So the plan is to play him, let his value increase, and the flog him to Arsenal/Liverpool

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    Like that excellent article said earlier in the week- the things that the majority of saints fan want are a team that gives our youth players a chance instead of farming them all out on loan, a team that tries to play an attacking and exciting brand of football and a team that is fully committed. If we get those three things then I think most saints fans would be happy. Do we have either of those things right now? I would say a resounding no for all three so you can see why people are unhappy (and I would be saying this even if we were mid table.)

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    Quote Originally Posted by doddisalegend View Post
    is this bit for real?

    In the past the club feel they have never sought to take credit publically for their dazzling recruitment successes, with £166 million of players sold to Liverpool alone since 2014. It is part of the reason why the likes of Les Reed, the most senior football executive, talk so rarely about their trading, with the plan being that the football speaks for itself – which it usually does.

    I love the way flogging half a squad to Liverpool is deemed something to celebrate...
    We've all obviously imagined the Les Reed interviews celebrating the Southampton Way..... What was all this, "no hunger in paradise" stuff about recently as well? Wasn't there a Les Reed interview on that saying how marvellous we are? Haven't watched it, but that was what I heard.

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    Quote Originally Posted by doddisalegend View Post
    is this bit for real?

    In the past the club feel they have never sought to take credit publically for their dazzling recruitment successes, with £166 million of players sold to Liverpool alone since 2014. It is part of the reason why the likes of Les Reed, the most senior football executive, talk so rarely about their trading, with the plan being that the football speaks for itself – which it usually does.

    I love the way flogging half a squad to Liverpool is deemed something to celebrate...
    Ha exactly! The club have felt they had no need to crow about their recruitment during the good times so now they are doing so poorly they thought it was a good time to bring it up to deflect some criticism- let's not forget all the times they have brought it up previously as well! Who gives a f*ck how many players we have managed to sell from years ago- what matters is our current situation. We do seem to be living on past glories somewhat rather than striving to do better every year - you can see why we have regressed if this attitude permeates the club.

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    Quote Originally Posted by S-Clarke View Post
    Lots of back patting going on in that article. The most blatant club driven peice of propoganda that I have ever seen.
    It is (always has been) but looking past the propaganda the Sam Wallace articles normally give the best reflection of what's going on he is clearly the only jurno (maybe Adam Blackmore to a point) with and inside track on what's actually happening behind the scenes.

  27. #27

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    Saints article in the Guardian too ....

    https://www.theguardian.com/football...cio-pellegrino

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    Not an unreasonable piece, although it won't placate the pitchfork brigade. Not sure what they mean about looking for a wide player even if they get Walcott unless they have told him he will play in the middle. As for Hoedt being Van Dyke's replacement - nothing wrong in that as long as we now finally replace Fonte.

  29. #29

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    As usual, a load of sh!te that has come from Les Reeds mouth.

    It's always worrying when he is hopeful / comfortable about something (Walcott in this case)

  30. #30

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    Quote Originally Posted by ericb View Post
    It's almost like some of us were saying that Puel being sacked was because he'd lost the players isn't it?
    Always made me laugh that, despite being told this a number times, a few just completely ignored this.

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    Quote Originally Posted by SKD View Post
    Always made me laugh that, despite being told this a number times, a few just completely ignored this.
    No. You need to understand. He was sacked because of deluded fans... These fans were wrong, whilst the select few who called for Puel to stay are footballing messiahs and were spot on. Now we have pellegrino and its all the fault of the "puel out" brigade.

    Absolute FACT.

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    The article comes in with an accompanying strong stench of bull****.

    Amongst the oddly-timed self-congratulations it essentially repeats the club’s mantra of, not to say it’s VVD’s fault, but it’s VVD’s fault.

    There were some interesting bits about the club’s profoundly unsuccessful manager. “The Argentine ticked all the boxes of Southampton’s rigorous criteria for a manager,” the article claims. It’s almost as if they are saying it’s not their fault for recruiting him because he seemed good at the time of his job interview. If this is truly the case they should revisit the criteria. Pellegrino might have met their needs for compliance with the club’s business model and leadership structure, use of academy players, and provided some kind of false promise to play attacking football etc. but the criteria loses the forest for the trees and does not seem to address the core purpose of the recruitment, i.e. is the guy a decent manager? Is he a good tactician? There is evidence that the answer to both questions is no.

    The article also seems to ramp up the pressure on “under scrutiny” Pellegrino. Perhaps there is the promise of a belated change if things go poorly against Watford?

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    Quote Originally Posted by sadoldgit View Post
    Not an unreasonable piece, although it won't placate the pitchfork brigade. Not sure what they mean about looking for a wide player even if they get Walcott unless they have told him he will play in the middle. As for Hoedt being Van Dyke's replacement - nothing wrong in that as long as we now finally replace Fonte.
    Last season started with Fonte, VVD, Yoshida and Stephens as our CBs. Fonte's departure and Caceres arrival left us with 4 CB's for the second half of the season, with Yoshida and Stephens stepping up the pecking order, although only three were available to play after VVD's injury. Hoedt and Bednarek's arrival in the summer brought the total up to five with a new pecking order unclear because of VVD's hissy fit and slow reintegration. Now that VVD has gone we are back to 4. Fonte has been replaced in terms of number of CB's in the squad. You could argue that the quality might not be as high as the start of last season, but it is highly unlikely that we are going to see another CB come in during this window.

  34. #34

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    Quote Originally Posted by sadoldgit View Post
    Not an unreasonable piece, although it won't placate the pitchfork brigade. Not sure what they mean about looking for a wide player even if they get Walcott unless they have told him he will play in the middle. As for Hoedt being Van Dyke's replacement - nothing wrong in that as long as we now finally replace Fonte.
    Except that LR said Hoedt had been bought to play alongside VVD.

  35. Default The latest telegraph article

    Quote Originally Posted by Saint86 View Post
    No. You need to understand. He was sacked because of deluded fans... These fans were wrong, whilst the select few who called for Puel to stay are footballing messiahs and were spot on. Now we have pellegrino and its all the fault of the "puel out" brigade.

    Absolute FACT.
    The club are hardly likely to come out and say “ fans reaction contributed to our decision” are they? Particularly when the atmosphere is so toxic at the moment. **** me we’ve got “supporters” wanting us to lose as it is.

    Anyone who thinks that the fans reactions and ticket sales had nothing to do with the decision are deluded. I’ve never said, and I’m yet to read anyone who has said, it was entirely down to the fans. As for the players, instead of defending them people should look at their performances since the nasty man Puel left. How are the little darlings performing now they’re free from him? They actually had a fantastic opportunity to shove it up him when he returned with his new side. To show who was right and who was wrong, to show Les he made the right decision . I think we got the answer to that one. They gave a woeful cowardly performance.




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  36. #36

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    Quote Originally Posted by hypochondriac View Post
    Worrying that they describe hoedt as the vvd replacement- was hoping for someone else.
    Yep same. Looks like Yoshida is firmly first choice now.

  37. Default

    Quote Originally Posted by S-Clarke View Post
    Lots of back patting going on in that article. The most blatant club driven peice of propoganda that I have ever seen.
    I love the irony of the club trying to force feed us that they don't like to take credit within the context of that article F*cking delusional.

  38. #38

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    Quote Originally Posted by Lord Duckhunter View Post
    The club are hardly likely to come out and say “ fans reaction contributed to our decision” are they? Particularly when the atmosphere is so toxic at the moment. **** me we’ve got “supporters” wanting us to lose as it is.

    Anyone who thinks that the fans reactions and ticket sales had nothing to do with the decision are deluded. I’ve never said, and I’m yet to read anyone who has said, it was entirely down to the fans. As for the players, instead of defending them people should look at their performances since the nasty man Puel left. How are the little darlings performing now they’re free from him? They actually had a fantastic opportunity to shove it up him when he returned with his new side. To show who was right and who was wrong, to show Les he made the right decision . I think we got the answer to that one. They gave a woeful cowardly performance.




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    Uh oh, you’ve criticised the players. You’re not allowed to do that on here apparently. It’s not their fault they’re not playing well, they have absolutely zero responsibility, none whatsoever.

  39. #39

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    I’ve been a fan of Les and co and don’t subscribe to the usual vitriol that fills these pages.

    However we are looking rudderless and rather deluded at boardroom level.

    There is a worrying lack of leadership in all areas of the club.

  40. #40

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    Quote Originally Posted by Lord Duckhunter View Post
    The club are hardly likely to come out and say “ fans reaction contributed to our decision” are they? Particularly when the atmosphere is so toxic at the moment. **** me we’ve got “supporters” wanting us to lose as it is.

    Anyone who thinks that the fans reactions and ticket sales had nothing to do with the decision are deluded. I’ve never said, and I’m yet to read anyone who has said, it was entirely down to the fans. As for the players, instead of defending them people should look at their performances since the nasty man Puel left. How are the little darlings performing now they’re free from him? They actually had a fantastic opportunity to shove it up him when he returned with his new side. To show who was right and who was wrong, to show Les he made the right decision . I think we got the answer to that one. They gave a woeful cowardly performance.




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    pretty much the players got what they wanted and responded by being even more ****e..

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    Quote Originally Posted by hypochondriac View Post
    Don't worry. To sensible posters that was always the most likely option.
    Bit like you lost the forum years ago.

  42. #42

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    Quote Originally Posted by LGTL View Post
    More club led propaganda.

    We have always believed our own ****, spouting off about academies and a team full of local lads, having our next 8 managers lined up, some mythical 'black box' that doesn't even exist.

    Taken our eye off the ball of the most important part - winning football matches with a competent manager. We've been utterly useless at doing both of those now for 18 months.
    The black box does exist, I know a number of people who have seen it. It’s just a room with some sophisticated software and lots of screens. The thing about propaganda is that much of it can be true. What do you expect the club to do? Feed stories to the paper saying “we’re screwed and we don’t know what we are doing”? The article rings very true in my mind, we are simply going through a period where some decisions made have not been the right ones.


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    Quote Originally Posted by hypochondriac View Post
    Don't worry. To sensible posters that was always the most likely option.
    Please tell me who is in that group

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    Quote Originally Posted by meatball View Post
    The black box does exist, I know a number of people who have seen it. It’s just a room with some sophisticated software and lots of screens. The thing about propaganda is that much of it can be true. What do you expect the club to do? Feed stories to the paper saying “we’re screwed and we don’t know what we are doing”? The article rings very true in my mind, we are simply going through a period where some decisions made have not been the right ones.


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    It was in one of the pr videos once so everyone have seen it.

  45. #45

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    Quote Originally Posted by whelk View Post
    Please tell me who is in that group
    I am a sensible poster. Also a humble one.

  46. #46

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    Quote Originally Posted by whelk View Post
    Please tell me who is in that group
    They know who they are.

  47. #47

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    For me we're a bit like political party. To begin with if you spout enough propaganda people will believe it and with a bit of success you all ride along on the crest of a wave. However if your model isn't sound, you take things for granted eventually things will start to unravel, people will see through things and gradually lose interest and drift away. Although unlike politics we won't go and suddenly start watching other teams we will see the apathy that is creeping in and if we go down the repercussions that will bring.

  48. #48

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    Quote Originally Posted by hypochondriac View Post
    It was in one of the pr videos once so everyone have seen it.
    So why are people questioning its existence?


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    Quote Originally Posted by hypochondriac View Post
    They know who they are.

  50. #50

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    Quote Originally Posted by meatball View Post
    So why are people questioning its existence?


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    To my knowledge no one has actually seen it working, and the club will claim that's because it's proprietary and cannot be stolen etc. But it's quite easy to put a box and a bunch of screens in a room and pull up some footage and call it the black box even if it's just a regular computer.

    In the long run it doesn't really matter if it works or not, still genius from a PR perspective -- the players who get recruited feel special, clubs who want to buy those players later feel like they're benefitting from superior scouting, etc. Even if the black box ends up being some bloke in a basement I don't care as long as the players keep coming in!

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