Ms Liebherr and Ian Branfoot

I am going to make two observations both controversial but genuinely felt.

Firstly Ms Liebherr has got to take some blame for our predicament. She had a right to sell to who she chose, but to then try and kid the fans she had sold on to owners who would take us forward was bull and she knew it.

Her father rescued us (albeit with a modest outlay) and we owe the Liebherr family our gratitude for their sensible running of the club but the time to worship at the temple of Liebherr has now passed.

Secondly I am being completely honest now when I say in my opinion this present manager is worse than Ian Branfoot. Yes the football was awful under Branfoot but, excluding Le Tiss, he had less talented players at his disposal and he at least seemed to be more consistent and less ridiculous with his team selections. It is generally accepted that the Branfoot era was our worst in modern times but Pellegrino is taking us to a new low and I have never known such frustration and discontent.

I daresay a few will say we haven't sunk THAT low yet but if MP survives today then I beg to differ.

I certainly couldn't see Branfoot leaving 4 of the most expensive signings on the bench.

I agree with Duncan's comments.

The Liebherrs have done very well financially with the vehicle that is our club. Any sustainability and progress beyond the initial five year plan disappeared with Markus sadly passing away.

The discord between LR and the coach will never be more evident that our bench last night. Appalling team / bench selection, rectified at half time, but by then the damage was done.

I would add the lack of any comment from Gao, if not a set of targets or plans then at least an introduction as to why he has paid out £200M and what he would like to see as a progression, if not negligent is bizarre.

I certainly couldn't see Branfoot leaving 4 of the most expensive signings on the bench.

I think it is Ms Liebherr's fault as such or even the new owners fault. I believe the fault sits squarely with Les Reed, he has messed up the last 2 or 3 transfer windows. He messed up the Toby A situation with his dithering, he sold all our top players & has failed to replace some of the more important players, Mane, Fonte & VVD. He allowed Koeman to go & replaced him with the wrong managers who he has allowed to move away from our 433 set up to a 451 version. The 433 set up was a very strong & successful way of playing football & served this club well over the last 5/6 years. He worked wonders in the rise from L1 but i feel this was mainly due to the support he had from above, since that support went & was replaced by Ralph Reed has been found out. his refusal to now act & replace the manager will see this club go back down.

I said at the time during all the gushing "Thank You Kat" threads and messages that she had sold us down the river.

Hope she is happy with her millions.

I said at the time during all the gushing "Thank You Kat" threads and messages that she had sold us down the river.

 

Hope she is happy with her millions.

I'm sure she is happy. I never was gushing over her, and was always doubtful to her motives. The only thing I can say positive, is that she did go to games, but perhaps that was downto the gushing she got from the fans at games.

Did she go to games? Or was she like our friend Gao and turned up for the prawn sandwiches when Man United and Liverpool came to town?

Thought that her attendances got more and more sparse as time went on?

100% Kat sold us down the river. Apparently from someone I know at the club, she still expects the loans she gave to be paid back. Nothing necessarily that bad with that but truly amazing given how much she sold the club for after getting it for free in an inheritance. The sale was for personal gain only and not to benefit Southampton FC.

Relegation may at least lead to a clear out of the board and maybe get some more football people in to keep Les in check (if he doesn’t retire), an apparently massive senior management team who can’t make decisions, a realignment of the academy and make the football club focus on what is actually important and allow it to compete.

he at least seemed to be more consistent and less ridiculous with his team selections. .

I give you Paul Moody!!

I am going to make two observations both controversial but genuinely felt.

 

Firstly Ms Liebherr has got to take some blame for our predicament. She had a right to sell to who she chose, but to then try and kid the fans she had sold on to owners who would take us forward was bull and she knew it.

Her father rescued us (albeit with a modest outlay) and we owe the Liebherr family our gratitude for their sensible running of the club but the time to worship at the temple of Liebherr has now passed.

I agree that that time has now passed about worshipping at the Liebherr temple, but the mistake many make on here is that we should be grateful for him buying the club. He did NOT buy the club for us and our benefit. He bought it as an investment, which was also a play thing which he seemingly got a lot of enjoyment out of. He had no (known) interest or connection to the club before he bought it, and the £14m that it cost was a snip given that there was a new stadium and training ground in place. Of course the risk was there in the investment, as there is in all investments, but the rewards were there as well especially given the position we were in in footballing terms. The club was sensibly run, but again not for our benefit, but for the benefit of the investment and for that we can be thankful (rather than grateful). The legacy that ML left behind, as I have said elsewhere, was not for us, but for his daughter. She clearly wasn't that interested in SFC, why should she be?

I agree that that time has now passed about worshipping at the Liebherr temple, but the mistake many make on here is that we should be grateful for him buying the club. He did NOT buy the club for us and our benefit. He bought it as an investment, which was also a play thing which he seemingly got a lot of enjoyment out of. He had no (known) interest or connection to the club before he bought it, and the £14m that it cost was a snip given that there was a new stadium and training ground in place. Of course the risk was there in the investment, as there is in all investments, but the rewards were there as well especially given the position we were in in footballing terms. The club was sensibly run, but again not for our benefit, but for the benefit of the investment and for that we can be thankful (rather than grateful). The legacy that ML left behind, as I have said elsewhere, was not for us, but for his daughter. She clearly wasn't that interested in SFC, why should she be?

I don't think we should be criticising ML. He trusted NC and I suspect felt he would take the club on as was promised in their vision and plans.KL had a different take and I don't believe that NC was taking us on the path of ruin.He was taking us on a journey where her money may not be so easy to get out

I will always be very grateful to Markus for whatever reasons he had, saving our club.

But the biggest loss to us (and I said so at the time) was the firing of Cortese. I genuinely thought that under his offices, we could smash a glass ceiling into the top 4. He genuinely wanted to do it and was driven enough to achieve it.

Kat however, had different ideas in how she wanted to manage her legacy and sadly, Duncan's assessment is right.

I give you Paul Moody!!

That’s what I mean, he had less talent at his disposal.

Kat has sold us down the river, we still know little about Gao and his plans -he could easily do a 'Pompey' with us and leave us a shell of a club.

He's borrowed £200mil for a club that will probably be worth £50mill max if we go down. Championship clubs don't make money, I'm not sure how he's going to get his money back on his investment - either a quick return to the premier or transfer the loan to the club and asset strip to pay it off?

I think another reason for my gloom is back then we had a Board who had a smidgeon of football savvy and once L Mac came back then Branfoots days were numbered. Frankly the fact MP has survived to noon is reprehensible.

Kat has sold us down the river, we still know little about Gao and his plans -he could easily do a 'Pompey' with us and leave us a shell of a club.

 

He's borrowed £200mil for a club that will probably be worth £50mill max if we go down. Championship clubs don't make money, I'm not sure how he's going to get his money back on his investment - either a quick return to the premier or transfer the loan to the club and asset strip to pay it off?

Forster £5m

Cedric - £20m

Bertrand - £30m

Hoedt £12m

VVD - £75m (in the bank)

Lemina - £15m

PVH - £10m

Gabbiadini - £15m

Carillo - £12m

Boufal - £12m

Tadic - £8m

Thrown in a few other like Redmond and that's prob another £20m

Championship club worth about £50m - pocket some parachute payments and he's borrowed £200m to buy a club and then sold it piecemeal for a nice profit.

And more importantly has got his money out of China and into the UK

I said tongue in cheek a few weeks ago that the Evil daughter turned up after her father's death , got rid of Nic who was implementing the wishes of his dead friend , then she sanctions the sale of all the family silver until she had made her inheritance money back that had been spent on the training ground and sold us to the first super villain she could sucker into buying us !

Agree with the OP 100%

What do people think, there’s a Jack Walker like Saints fan going to buy us. The simple fact is that every single owner we’re ever going to have in the modern game will be out solely to make money. As money making owners go Kat Liebher was a bloody decent owner , we could of had a lot worse.

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What do people think, there’s a Jack Walker like Saints fan going to buy us. The simple fact is that every single owner we’re ever going to have in the modern game will be out solely to make money. As money making owners go Kat Liebher was a bloody decent owner , we could of had a lot worse.

 

 

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To blame Kat is ridiculous she was left with the club after her father unexpectedly died , she has done well to keep it going even though she was not a football person . We got sold to Gao because no one else was interested , a bit like no one wanted Blackburn when the time came !

lets see in 18months time. IMO in her reckless desire to get her inheritance she might have sent us into a spiral

If she was so reckless in her desire (your words) why did she wait so long.....

If she was so reckless in her desire (your words) why did she wait so long.....

Because Geo was struggling to get the money together and the struggling to pass the Premier Leagues fit and proper test....

I don't think we should be criticising ML. He trusted NC and I suspect felt he would take the club on as was promised in their vision and plans.KL had a different take and I don't believe that NC was taking us on the path of ruin.He was taking us on a journey where her money may not be so easy to get out

Cortese was 100% ousted from the club. Everyone agrees with that.

Once you accept this, you need to look at why, and at people's agendas.

Case 1 - We really were financially in trouble... and that was the reason we were given for the multiple seasons of negative net spend...

Case 2 - KL didn't want her money spent and instead decided to begin the process of cashing in.

Additionally - What was LR's involvement? And if he had none, why the massive PR drive to blame and discredit NC, and to take credit for everything that came before?

Case 1 - is plausible, but completley ignores the continued seasons of massive tv and prize revenues, and ignores the continued net transfer takes we are seeing even after we've "financially balanced" the books. So I'm going to call hokum.

Case 2 - She sold us down the swanny - lets be honest, this seems pretty obvious? Anyone care to argue that she hasn't?

For the record I will be forever indebted to the whole of the Liebherr family. I think it's very easy to think only about the here and now and forget what has gone before, especially when things are not how one wants them to be. While we were in administration Markus took the risk, bought and invested in the club - with good management and investment he made us successful again.

I think it's somewhat disingenuous to point fingers of blame at Katherina who, after her fathers untimely death inherits a position that perhaps she in all honestly didn't particularly want. I have no evidence to the contrary other than that she has tried to run the club as best she could, I blame her for nothing. Did she say that she needed to sell the club because she couldn't take it any further - yes she did as far as I remember. Whether the new owner is able to meet those aspirations is really yet to be seen - but I'm not about to go blaming her for selling, she had every right to.

If you want to look at it in the clear light of day the Liebherr family bought us in League 1, as they leave us we are in the Premier league (albeit struggling), we have progressed.

There is an awful lot wrong at the club at the moment, both on and off the pitch, but to start pointing fingers of blame at people who essentially tried their very best for us is somewhat distasteful in the extreme. I for one will look back on the 'Liebherr Chapter' of our history with lots of great memories, some fondness and little blame.

For the record I will be forever indebted to the whole of the Liebherr family. I think it's very easy to think only about the here and now and forget what has gone before, especially when things are not how one wants them to be. While we were in administration Markus took the risk, bought and invested in the club - with good management and investment he made us successful again.

 

I think it's somewhat disingenuous to point fingers of blame at Katherina who, after her fathers untimely death inherits a position that perhaps she in all honestly didn't particularly want. I have no evidence to the contrary other than that she has tried to run the club as best she could, I blame her for nothing. Did she say that she needed to sell the club because she couldn't take it any further - yes she did as far as I remember. Whether the new owner is able to meet those aspirations is really yet to be seen - but I'm not about to go blaming her for selling, she had every right to.

 

If you want to look at it in the clear light of day the Liebherr family bought us in League 1, as they leave us we are in the Premier league (albeit struggling), we have progressed.

 

There is an awful lot wrong at the club at the moment, both on and off the pitch, but to start pointing fingers of blame at people who essentially tried their very best for us is somewhat distasteful in the extreme. I for one will look back on the 'Liebherr Chapter' of our history with lots of great memories, some fondness and little blame.

Me too. It was ML or Mickey Fialka , we as fans did very well out of it. She has made a fortune , good for her.

PS Not only league 1 but also on minus 10 points.

What do people think, there’s a Jack Walker like Saints fan going to buy us. The simple fact is that every single owner we’re ever going to have in the modern game will be out solely to make money. As money making owners go Kat Liebher was a bloody decent owner , we could of had a lot worse.

 

 

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I agree but her crime is trying to pull the wool over our eyes over Gao.

i have been saying for months that is the worst team we have had in my 57 years of support, made up of some of the best players we have ever had.

manager stinks

at any level if you go with 2 up top through the middle you get the ball to them quickly and then play off them not continue to go square, waste of time having the two up there

I agree but her crime is trying to pull the wool over our eyes over Gao.

Perhaps Gao pulled the wool over her eyes.

If it was a deliberate act of pulling her money out for profit and not giving a Shiite, why retain 20%. What sort of business person would hang around if they felt that it could go tits up. Had this deal come within 6 months of her fathers passing, then people may have a point. The fact is she’s been a fantastic owner from that day till she sold her majority stake. She deserves the benefit of any doubt going. She’s earnt that benefit 10 times over.

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I agree but her crime is trying to pull the wool over our eyes over Gao.

This is it for me.

Grateful for ML for saving us and establishing the framework for the club to succeed.

KL trimmed back on expenditure (quite rightly - her prerogative) , however it seems to me the framework that built the club back up has been shelved for whatever reason or there was and still is a loss of focus.

She wrote an open stating the club will be in good hands, it would have been better for her to stay silent on that matter, just like Gao himself.

Kat has sold us down the river, we still know little about Gao and his plans -he could easily do a 'Pompey' with us and leave us a shell of a club.

 

He's borrowed £200mil for a club that will probably be worth £50mill max if we go down. Championship clubs don't make money, I'm not sure how he's going to get his money back on his investment - either a quick return to the premier or transfer the loan to the club and asset strip to pay it off?

Sell the top players. Pocket the parachute payments. That covers his outlay. Then hope we get back up anyway, sell at a tidy profit.

Pretty sure investing to improve the club isn't on the agenda.

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What do people think, there’s a Jack Walker like Saints fan going to buy us. The simple fact is that every single owner we’re ever going to have in the modern game will be out solely to make money. As money making owners go Kat Liebher was a bloody decent owner , we could of had a lot worse.

 

 

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If you were a very wealthy business man / women, how would you make money on us?

The only way any new investor could really make any money is by improving the infrastructure (training ground or stadium) or improving league position (i.e get us into the CL).

Both cost money - in football, you need to spend money to make money. Of course Gao could just sit on what we have, hope we remain in the PL each season and get his return on the profits we make each year, but how long will that take? and you risk having 1 bad season and losing the lot (as seen this year).

You'd struggle to make money buying a PL football club these days (unless you want to just sit and milk the TV / commercial money). I don't understand why any business man would buy a PL football club if i'm honest.

Perhaps Gao pulled the wool over her eyes.

 

If it was a deliberate act of pulling her money out for profit and not giving a Shiite, why retain 20%. What sort of business person would hang around if they felt that it could go tits up. Had this deal come within 6 months of her fathers passing, then people may have a point. The fact is she’s been a fantastic owner from that day till she sold her majority stake. She deserves the benefit of any doubt going. She’s earnt that benefit 10 times over.

 

 

 

 

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We make a profit year on year - Why would she want to give up that? She will get 20% for doing pretty much **** all.

Because Geo was struggling to get the money together and the struggling to pass the Premier Leagues fit and proper test....

So why did she not sell very soon after we were back in the PL, when our stocks were highest......

If it was her desire she could have done it then...

Jeez, we've had a few good years, two cup finals, Europe twice (The San Siro FFS!), 4 top 8 finishes.

Did anyone ever expect that back at Rochdale or Peterborough?

No matter what happens we have done alright (as fans) and now we are going to revert to type.

I am not pleased with the current situation but you know what? I'll still go next year, in the Championship or PL.

It's the whole game and ethics in general that I am falling out of love with. As someone said, no one is in for the love anymore, they (Ms Liebher included) are just in it for a 'get richer quicker' fix. Thats the lot of them, players, owners, agents and we're the ones paying for it.

Jeez, we've had a few good years, two cup finals, Europe twice (The San Siro FFS!), 4 top 8 finishes.

Did anyone ever expect that back at Rochdale or Peterborough?

No matter what happens we have done alright (as fans) and now we are going to revert to type.

I am not pleased with the current situation but you know what? I'll still go next year, in the Championship or PL.

It's the whole game and ethics in general that I am falling out of love with. As someone said, no one is in for the love anymore, they (Ms Liebher included) are just in it for a 'get richer quicker' fix. Thats the lot of them, players, owners, agents and we're the ones paying for it.

The problem I like many others have is that the **** we are in and the direction we are heading are totally avoidable . If us fans can see it why can't these so called professional's who have found themselves at the top of their field ?

Call me crazy, but I think it may be a bit premature to judge a corporate takeover on 20 football matches.

I've often thought of where the Club might have been before Markus passed away.

It all seemed to be working early days with Nicola Cortese and I've wondered if that partnership would have continued.

Would Markus have followed the regime of Cortese with his complete disregard of the history of Southampton Football Club?

Your thoughts Fitz??

I've often thought of where the Club might have been before Markus passed away.

It all seemed to be working early days with Nicola Cortese and I've wondered if that partnership would have continued.

Would Markus have followed the regime of Cortese with his complete disregard of the history of Southampton Football Club?

Your thoughts Fitz??

We will never know but my guess is Marcus would have reigned him in.

The signs were obvious and I tried to warn people but was lambasted and ridiculed.

Well, not now.

BTW Branfoot did NOT get us relegated !