Last Chance Saloon

Sometimes you have to take tough decisions in life. You may get it wrong you may get it right but in the name of Allah at least have the courage of your convictions. Tbh I’d rather you voted for him to stay than not vote at all. Gawd this is so depressing.

I voted to sack him.

The club probably view the ideal situation as keeping him, and winning enough games to avoid relegation. They can then fire Pellegrino in the summer when there are more managers available, allowing Les to employ his recruitment process resulting in the hiring of someone that says all the right things in his job interview and ticks all of Les Reed’s picayune boxes.

I’ll still hope to avoid relegation if he stays, but IMO our best shot at getting the requisite amount of wins is to hire a manager who is better than Pellegrino (not a difficult proposition because Pellegrino is out of his depth at this level), someone with better tactical skills, team selection skills, someone who will see the gutless performance on Sunday, bang some heads together and install a backbone in this bunch of overpaid failures.

That is why I voted to sack him, because it provides us with our best shot at avoiding relegation. I’d take Silva as a short term replacement. He’ll then get tapped up by a bigger club, and he’ll probably do the dirty on us at some point when the dugout pioneers come calling again because he’s a mercenary bastard, but the main thing is avoiding relegation in the next 11 games and dealing with everything else as the board plans for another season in the PL.

Also, if we somehow avoid relegation with Pellegrino so Les can go through his whole recruiting process in the summer, well the last two occasions have not worked out very well. Perhaps Les needs to revisit his process.

Superb, even though I thought the "nine years" comment was directed at me.

It could well be. You were one of those who had the insight to see years ago how the penny pinching and dithering in the summer transfer markets would lead to our decline and declare it! Plus a host of other warning signs, that were subtle, but there.

The sniping going on now is just sour grapes or embarrassment that they did not see them for themselves. I said in 2004 that the failure to appoint Hoddle at a very crucial time of the club along with the very risky appointment of an inexperienced League 1 manager would put our premier status in jeopardy. I was right. Of course the apologisers have throw abuse and ridicule at me as a smokescreen to their own failings. No surprise really.

...

I can't believe any right minded fan would want him to stay a minute longer. Not sure who we'd get to replace him but given the amount of money the club would lose if we were relegated, offering a £4-5m bonus to a manger to keep us up would get quite a few interested and motivated... unlike this idiot we have at the moment

unfortunately football doesn't work the way you have written.

I am still in the Pellegrino out boat, but there is no one that is available on that short term basis.

My personal opinion is that, given we did not sack him a while ago, are gonna attempt to ride out the season with him before employing another 'foreign manager'/taking another stab at trying to find another 'Pochettino'. Yes it is a major risk, but think Reed is so up his ar*e he's gonna pray this works- and if we do go down, there will no doubt be more sh*t coming out of his ar*e about how we will look to bounce back straight away and we fans will probably buy it too.

it is a shame that since promotion, to finish 14, 8, 7, 6, 8 and then get relegated, thus throwing away 7 years of hard work in the space of 15 months due to negligence and incompetence. mental

It's too late imo. We've got some key games coming up and a loss in even one of them could be curtains for us. The board are ****ing mental tbh. I get they want to back their man but surely they can see what we can see?? The tactics, the subs, playing players out of position, benching our best players ect ect.

It's too late imo. We've got some key games coming up and a loss in even one of them could be curtains for us. The board are ****ing mental tbh. I get they want to back their man but surely they can see what we can see?? The tactics, the subs, playing players out of position, benching our best players ect ect.

You might be right in this given our run in, but a couple of wins can propel you up the table rapidly at the moment. Of course if you say or write it quickly it seems easy, but on our current patchy form, and Pellegrino's record of consistent disappointment, it is difficult to see those wins coming.

So should we accept the inevitable, as Reed & Co seem to, or roll the dice seeking an improvement ? Not sure the quick fix - or to the end of season - appointments are available or will be attracted which is my only concern about the change. But on balance far better off trying to change it round than leave it as it is.

If nothing else, this outs to bed the lie that it was the fans who got puel the sack. The vast majority of fans have been screaming for pellegrino's head for weeks now and have been totally ignored.

I don't think it does. Fans weren't renewing season tickets when Puel went. Fans are still selling St Mary's out despite hating Pellegrino more.

If nothing else, this outs to bed the lie that it was the fans who got puel the sack. The vast majority of fans have been screaming for pellegrino's head for weeks now and have been totally ignored.

That's a non sequitur argument. Both facts, they acted because of the fans last time and they are ignoring them this time, could be true. It could be a case that they are ignoring the fans this because they implemented their wishes last time.

According to the Echo we are still 3 wins BEHIND our worst-ever home PL season - the one where we got relegated.

And we have 4 home games left, two of which are Chelsea and Man City.

We are totally f**ked. No escape this time.

How the f**k have Gao and Liebherr allowed this to happen and not sacked the Three Musketeers ?

According to the Echo we are still 3 wins BEHIND our worst-ever home PL season - the one where we got relegated.

 

And we have 4 home games left, two of which are Chelsea and Man City.

 

We are totally f**ked. No escape this time.

 

How the f**k have Gao and Liebherr allowed this to happen and not sacked the Three Musketeers ?

I genuinely only see us getting out of this if we play away, without a nervous crowd around the team, where it’s on the home team to take the points.

Luckily 5 out of the last 6 league games are away. March is the biggest month we’ve had.

I genuinely only see us getting out of this if we play away, without a nervous crowd around the team, where it’s on the home team to take the points.

 

Luckily 5 out of the last 6 league games are away. March is the biggest month we’ve had.

I meant next 6 league games

sigh. another morning checking on here and still no 'He's Gone' thread. I give up.

sigh. another morning checking on here and still no 'He's Gone' thread. I give up.

Come back in June when we are looking for someone to plan our promotion campaign.

Come back in June when we are looking for someone to plan our promotion campaign.

Forgive me if I'm wrong, but didn't you warn of this exact scenario happening a couple of years ago, and also back in 2004 with the failure to appoint Hoddle?

Forgive me if I'm wrong, but didn't you warn of this exact scenario happening a couple of years ago, and also back in 2004 with the failure to appoint Hoddle?

To be fair we were relegated in 2005 (after a 27 year stay) and now look to be on the brink again. Hes taken stick for predicting our decline...... I don't see anything wrong with a couple of his "I told you so" posts

Does anyone know for a fact if season ticket sales were down under Puel? I have heard, third-hand, that season ticket sales were exactly where we would have expected them to be, so Puel going was not down to a potential decline in gate revenue......

Either way, we appear to be stuck with this clown for a while yet. Win-one, lose two, keep your job, get relegated with thirty odd points.....

Brilliant Dalek, just brilliant. I'm thankful for any smiles raised while reading this forum right now

Come back in June when we are looking for someone to plan our promotion campaign.

We will probably appoint Dean Saunders given the gradual decrease in coaching quality we've had.

To be fair we were relegated in 2005 (after a 27 year stay) and now look to be on the brink again. Hes taken stick for predicting our decline...... I don't see anything wrong with a couple of his "I told you so" posts

Even a stopped clock tells the right time twice a day....

Even a stopped clock tells the right time twice a day....

Like the same argument that you keep pedalling out.

I keep praying that Newcastle lose their next few games, in the vain hope that Rafa gets the chance to come here...

What are the options if we sack him now? Unless we have an alternative lined up it could take to the end of the season to find a decent Championship manger

What are the options if we sack him now? Unless we have an alternative lined up it could take to the end of the season to find a decent Championship manger

Kelvin Davis and Dave Watson as caretaker managers would be the cheapest option and would almost certainly see us relegated.

i feel now, the same way as I did when nearly everyone was calling for Puel to be sacked: our current manager is not very good but I think it's highly likely that if he's sacked, the next one will be even worse, simply because I have no faith in Les and Ralph's judgement. I also think that whilst Puel was left without an effective attack after the sale of Mane and Pelle, poor Pellegrino has been left without an effective defence and attack after the sale of Fonte and van Dijk.

Koeman had Wanyama, Pelle, Mane, Fonte and van Dijk! I wonder how well Koeman would fare with our current squad and how well Pellegrino would have fared if he'd had the strong squad that Koeman had. The man I hold almost entirely responsible for the club's decline over the last 2 years is Les Reed but now all of the Reedites on here seem to be trying to deflect 100% of the blame onto Pellegrino. In terms of points won, the decline form Koeman to Puel was greater than the one from Puel to Pellegrino but most of that can be explained by the sale of our best players and the poor replacements being brought in. The squad is so much weaker now than it was 2 years ago. Again I expect the Reedites on here to try to deny that.

Like the same argument that you keep pedalling out.

Doesnt make it wrong though Dalek. Clubs like ours are always going to be prone to relegation battles so it follows if you say we will be in one every year, then you will be right eventually. It doesnt make you a footballing genius. There is an old saying, if something probably can happen then it probably will.

I've heard lately on the media that it's finally caught up with us selling our best players but surely it shouldn't come to this IF we have invested and replaced. The missing money from the VVD sale springs to mind. I'd like to know our transfer fees incoming and outgoing for the last 3 years say and see where it's gone wrong. There are other clubs who like us have had to sell and probably aren't in our mess.

I've heard lately on the media that it's finally caught up with us selling our best players but surely it shouldn't come to this IF we have invested and replaced. The missing money from the VVD sale springs to mind. I'd like to know our transfer fees incoming and outgoing for the last 3 years say and see where it's gone wrong. There are other clubs who like us have had to sell and probably aren't in our mess.

The owners of other clubs spend their own money plus the Premier League prize money on their teams. Brighton's owner, Tony Bloom, has spent around £150 million out of his own pocket. on top of the club's own income, on Brighton's new stadium and players. You'll find that's fairly typical of Premier League club owners. Football clubs have always been, like racehorses, a rich man's palyhting. Traditionally, wealthy local businessmen used to spend money on their local football club as a way of putting something back into their local community. Jack Walker at Blackburn was a classic example. Nowadays, international billionaires compete against each other to see who can build the most successful team but there are still local businessmen like Mike Garlick at Burnley. They wouldn't dream of trying to make even one penny out of their beloved football clubs. Meanwhile, we are reduced to only being able to spend part of the money we get from selling players on their replacements.

Coventry is one of the few other clubs where the owners have seen the club entirely as an opportunity to make money. Kat not only pocketed the £210 million she got from Gao but the the club had to pay her back a loan plus interest before the sale took place. She must have made more money out of this club than just about any owner in the history of world football. We got lucky with Markus Liebherr when he bought our club for £12 million but unlucky with his daughter.

The owners of other clubs spend their own money plus the Premier League prize money on their teams. Brighton's owner, Tony Bloom, has spent around £150 million out of his own pocket. on top of the club's own income, on Brighton's new stadium and players. You'll find that's fairly typical of Premier League club owners. Football clubs have always been, like racehorses, a rich man's palyhting. Traditionally, wealthy local businessmen used to spend money on their local football club as a way of putting something back into their local community. Jack Walker at Blackburn was a classic example. Nowadays, international billionaires compete against each other to see who can build the most successful team but there are still local businessmen like Mike Garlick at Burnley. They wouldn't dream of trying to make even one penny out of their beloved football clubs. Meanwhile, we are reduced to only being able to spend part of the money we get from selling players on their replacements.

 

Coventry is one of the few other clubs where the owners have seen the club entirely as an opportunity to make money. Kat not only pocketed the £210 million she got from Gao but the the club had to pay her back a loan plus interest before the sale took place. She must have made more money out of this club than just about any owner in the history of world football. We got lucky with Markus Liebherr when he bought our club for £12 million but unlucky with his daughter.

People are fat for a reason....They are greedy

Bring on relegation, clear out the board, the egos in the squad and the clown of a manager........ Field a young passionate squad get a young passionate English manager and have a asset sale...... Use the money to strengthen in key areas that will give us a good chance of bouncing back up to the Premiership.

I have pretty much lost interest in Premier league football anyways lets be realistic here to much money in that league full of big clubs mopping up talent......

Doesnt make it wrong though Dalek. Clubs like ours are always going to be prone to relegation battles so it follows if you say we will be in one every year, then you will be right eventually. It doesnt make you a footballing genius. There is an old saying, if something probably can happen then it probably will.

I agree, but it doesn't make me wrong for the same reasons you describe. Clubs like ours are always going to have good patches but it is harder to see the subtle signs of a downturn. They were there quite a few years ago, especially under Koeman.

Bring on relegation, clear out the board, the egos in the squad and the clown of a manager........ Field a young passionate squad get a young passionate English manager and have a asset sale...... Use the money to strengthen in key areas that will give us a good chance of bouncing back up to the Premiership.

 

I have pretty much lost interest in Premier league football anyways lets be realistic here to much money in that league full of big clubs mopping up talent......

Until you get back into the premier league and it all starts over again !

Bring on relegation, clear out the board, the egos in the squad and the clown of a manager........ Field a young passionate squad get a young passionate English manager and have a asset sale...... Use the money to strengthen in key areas that will give us a good chance of bouncing back up to the Premiership.

 

I have pretty much lost interest in Premier league football anyways lets be realistic here to much money in that league full of big clubs mopping up talent......

The best way to play in the Premier League definitely starts with getting relegated from it in the first place...

Doesnt make it wrong though Dalek. Clubs like ours are always going to be prone to relegation battles so it follows if you say we will be in one every year, then you will be right eventually. It doesnt make you a footballing genius. There is an old saying, if something probably can happen then it probably will.

Priceless.

He's on here lecturing again with his typical blend of piety and disdain, yet hasnt even voted himself.

Any league is good when you are going well in it and bad when you are doing badly. At the end of the 2015/16 season, every Saints fan was very happy to be in the Premier League and looking forward to the next season. When we were struggling at the bottom of the Championship in 2009 we were miserable. We have spent 41 of the last 50 years in the top flight and it's where you'd expect a club with a fan base as big as ours - among the 12 biggest in the country - to be. There is nothing great about underachieving alongside smaller clubs in a lower league. Ask Sunderland and Hull fans about it. Wishing for it is just defeatism.

Whatever happens between now and the end of the season , this is our club and our team , our family have supported since the beginning as an old Southampton family with close ties to the club over the generations , now just season ticket holders who go to games with a great love for our club and our boys and although the levels of disappointment we have felt over the last year or so has been enormous , nothing we can do will change the situation we find ourselves in but full support for the players on the pitch who are the only ones who can make a difference to our results is vital , so please feel negative about the owners , board and manager but stay with the team to the end and then regroup and face a happier future or let your bile rip if it will make you feel better .

I for one congratulate dalek, he is the model of consistency and loads of seasons he takes stick with his 17th prediction so is fully entitled to troll in an amusing way the entire forum.

Any league is good when you are going well in it and bad when you are doing badly. At the end of the 2015/16 season, every Saints fan was very happy to be in the Premier League and looking forward to the next season. When we were struggling at the bottom of the Championship in 2009 we were miserable. We have spent 41 of the last 50 years in the top flight and it's where you'd expect a club with a fan base as big as ours - among the 12 biggest in the country - to be. There is nothing great about underachieving alongside smaller clubs in a lower league. Ask Sunderland and Hull fans about it. Wishing for it is just defeatism.

exactly! and what would be the aim if we were to go into the championship? to go and get promoted again!! so to the ppl who says premier league football is overrated/full of pampered footballers.... well yes it is... but that is exactly where any club wants to be- ask any championship/football league clubs that.

He said they weren't all replaced. But they clearly were.

 

Lovren was replaced by Alderweireld on loan, Alderweireld was replaced by van Dijk and van Dijk was replaced by Hoedt. The only one who arguably hasn't been replaced is Fonte. I'd say Stephens isn't at the level Fonte was at his peak, but he is currently better than Fonte as things stand today.

Then I'd argue Hoedt was finally Fonte's replacement, and VVD hasn't been replaced. Just like it's taken us ages to replace Pelle with Carrillo....! And we still haven't replaced Mane.

It's too late imo. We've got some key games coming up and a loss in even one of them could be curtains for us. The board are ****ing mental tbh. I get they want to back their man but surely they can see what we can see?? The tactics, the subs, playing players out of position, benching our best players ect ect.

It's just complete and utter madness, even if he keeps us up (which lets be honest even a half decent manager would with this squad) I have no confidence that we will improve next year.

This whole situation (along with a **** poor January window, for the second year running) demonstrates why Les & Ralph are not fit to run a football club.

Bring on relegation, clear out the board, the egos in the squad and the clown of a manager........ Field a young passionate squad get a young passionate English manager and have a asset sale...... Use the money to strengthen in key areas that will give us a good chance of bouncing back up to the Premiership.

 

I have pretty much lost interest in Premier league football anyways lets be realistic here to much money in that league full of big clubs mopping up talent......

This is a tad confusing. Why would you want to have "a good chance of bouncing back up to the Premiership", when you've lost interest in it?

Previous poll was 16% In

84% out

now its 7% in

93% out.

I predict next poll will be 3% in

97% out.

Previous poll was 16% In

84% out

 

now its 7% in

93% out.

 

I predict next poll will be 3% in

97% out.

I've gone back him only because we've left it too late now. Getting rid now will only unsettle things more at this late stage. Saying that I will still be delighted if he's sacked cos he's one of the worst managers we've had and is tactically inept and I can't imagine he could inspire anyone

Kelvin Davis and Dave Watson as caretaker managers would be the cheapest option and would almost certainly see us relegated.

 

i feel now, the same way as I did when nearly everyone was calling for Puel to be sacked: our current manager is not very good but I think it's highly likely that if he's sacked, the next one will be even worse, simply because I have no faith in Les and Ralph's judgement. I also think that whilst Puel was left without an effective attack after the sale of Mane and Pelle, poor Pellegrino has been left without an effective defence and attack after the sale of Fonte and van Dijk.

 

Koeman had Wanyama, Pelle, Mane, Fonte and van Dijk! I wonder how well Koeman would fare with our current squad and how well Pellegrino would have fared if he'd had the strong squad that Koeman had. The man I hold almost entirely responsible for the club's decline over the last 2 years is Les Reed but now all of the Reedites on here seem to be trying to deflect 100% of the blame onto Pellegrino. In terms of points won, the decline form Koeman to Puel was greater than the one from Puel to Pellegrino but most of that can be explained by the sale of our best players and the poor replacements being brought in. The squad is so much weaker now than it was 2 years ago. Again I expect the Reedites on here to try to deny that.

Spot on.

Kelvin Davis and Dave Watson as caretaker managers would be the cheapest option and would almost certainly see us relegated.

 

i feel now, the same way as I did when nearly everyone was calling for Puel to be sacked: our current manager is not very good but I think it's highly likely that if he's sacked, the next one will be even worse, simply because I have no faith in Les and Ralph's judgement. I also think that whilst Puel was left without an effective attack after the sale of Mane and Pelle, poor Pellegrino has been left without an effective defence and attack after the sale of Fonte and van Dijk.

 

Koeman had Wanyama, Pelle, Mane, Fonte and van Dijk! I wonder how well Koeman would fare with our current squad and how well Pellegrino would have fared if he'd had the strong squad that Koeman had. The man I hold almost entirely responsible for the club's decline over the last 2 years is Les Reed but now all of the Reedites on here seem to be trying to deflect 100% of the blame onto Pellegrino. In terms of points won, the decline form Koeman to Puel was greater than the one from Puel to Pellegrino but most of that can be explained by the sale of our best players and the poor replacements being brought in. The squad is so much weaker now than it was 2 years ago. Again I expect the Reedites on here to try to deny that.

Reed is worse than lowe IMO

Kelvin Davis and Dave Watson as caretaker managers would be the cheapest option and would almost certainly see us relegated.

 

i feel now, the same way as I did when nearly everyone was calling for Puel to be sacked: our current manager is not very good but I think it's highly likely that if he's sacked, the next one will be even worse, simply because I have no faith in Les and Ralph's judgement. I also think that whilst Puel was left without an effective attack after the sale of Mane and Pelle, poor Pellegrino has been left without an effective defence and attack after the sale of Fonte and van Dijk.

 

Koeman had Wanyama, Pelle, Mane, Fonte and van Dijk! I wonder how well Koeman would fare with our current squad and how well Pellegrino would have fared if he'd had the strong squad that Koeman had. The man I hold almost entirely responsible for the club's decline over the last 2 years is Les Reed but now all of the Reedites on here seem to be trying to deflect 100% of the blame onto Pellegrino. In terms of points won, the decline form Koeman to Puel was greater than the one from Puel to Pellegrino but most of that can be explained by the sale of our best players and the poor replacements being brought in. The squad is so much weaker now than it was 2 years ago. Again I expect the Reedites on here to try to deny that.

Absolute rubbish. The players are good enough, they just lack motivation, direction and any sort of tactics. List me all the players you would rather have from West Brom, Stoke, Newcastle, Huddersfield etc we are going down with this clown so why not change it now and give us half a chance. Nothing to lose

Nah. Always going to be a tiny minority who like going against the grain, worry about any sort of change, are closet skates, just like being sad, old, supercilious and feeling superior (delete as appropriate.) The vast vast vast majority of fans are desperate for him to leave now which should tell you something.

# Statistic spinning klaxon #

Number of forum members = 10,895

Number of active forum members = 1,394

Active members voting 'Back Him' = 35 = 2.5%

Active members voting 'Sack Him' = 431 = 31%

Active members not voted = 928 = 66.5%

Ergo, the number of active SWF members who currently aren't in the "desperate for him to leave" camp = 69%.

(Yes.... (a) I really was sad enough to expend some brain cells on coming up with those figures, and yes.... (b) I aIready know what the response to this post will be, but feel free to mention it anyway... )

Nah. Always going to be a tiny minority who like going against the grain, worry about any sort of change, are closet skates, just like being sad, old, supercilious and feeling superior (delete as appropriate.) The vast vast vast majority of fans are desperate for him to leave now which should tell you something.

git!

On the which players would you have from relegation rivals question. Well any of their cbs and gk for a start - id also take Murray, Crouch, Abraham, Ayew and Mounie instead of our strikers (bar Austin). Which perhaps explains why we don’t score enough and concede too many. Rest of the team are decent - but then i’d also swop our manager with any Prem rival (and top 10 champs)

What are the options if we sack him now? Unless we have an alternative lined up it could take to the end of the season to find a decent Championship manger

Silva. We should offer him £5 million to keep us up, he gets **** all if we go down. Short term contract to end of season, that's it unless both party's want to review the situation in the close season - totally get why the club may not want to take him on long term given his behaviour at Watford when Everton came calling. Not too sure how rich the fella is but wouldn't have thought he'd turn down the chance to enhance his reputation and earn a fortune in the process.

FWIW I am aware that none of this is going to happen and have accepted we are run by a bunch of ****s.