How good do you think Saints squad is?

I see lots of comments in different threads about the comparative strength, or otherwise, of our squad. Seems possibly worthwhile to have a thread of its own.

My personal opinion, I think it is bottom half of table level, but better than bottom three. Breaking it down, I think we are adequately covered in goal, as not many clubs can claim to have a back-up of the quality of Forster, even if he has been below par the last year or so.

Defence, probably our weakest area, possibly relegation level. Our centre back options are well below the level of say a Brighton, Newcastle, West Brom (albeit they are under performing). Full backs good in starting positions, top half, back ups a significant step down in quality.

Defensive midfield, Romeu has been a way below his form from last season. Don't really think we have any other purely defensive options in midfield, Lemina, Hojberg, Davis, JWP, not really holding players, more box to box types who may be able to try to play the role. Lemina is a quality box to box player though. Compared to other teams though, I don't think there are any other teams in the bottom half who are very strong in this respect, possibly Watford better with Dacoure, who looks a level above their other players. Joe Allen is good at Stoke, but not really a real ball winner, IMO.

Attacking midfield, Tadic, Boufal, Redmond, all flattered to deceive. 9 goals all season from players who may be classed as being forward minded (Davis, Boufal, JWP and Tadic) is really poor. I think JWP, on his day, along with Boufal, can play consistently for top half teams, not CL level, maybe Europa League or challenging for those places. Tadic is too slow in his play for that. COmpare to teams around us, Stoke have Jese and Shaqiri, Newcastle have decent options with Kenedy, Atsu, Ritchie. Swansea have good attacking talent, although inconsistent like ours. West Ham have Antonio, Arnautovic, Lanzini - plenty of talent in other teams as well.

Attack, not up to the level of top half, for sure. Say's it all when our top scorer has 6 goals for the season. Our 2 top priced signings, Carillo and Gabbi, were both bit part, inconsistent scorers before they arrived and haven't improved on that since being here. Austin knows where the goal is but can't get on the pitch often enough. Then there is Shane Long, who I would love as a player if he could finish. Compare to other teams, would you take Mounie, Murray, Abraham, Sturridge, Benteke, Deeney above any of our strikers. I would have any of them in our starting line up compared to what we have. Forget looking at the options in the top half, our lot aren't really worthy of a place on the bench of a lot of the top half teams.

So, overall, IMO, our squad is not top half level, we have enough to avoid relegation, but if we survive, and the rhetoric from the club about wanting to be a team challenging for europe is true, our squad needs massive surgery, especially CB and attack.

Thoughts?

much better than 18th in the league with 5 wins from 27 league games

I agree with a recent comment by Sam Allardyce that outside the top 6, any team can have a bad run and find itself struggling at the bottom end of the table.

Overall Saints aren't that bad a side but, as most of the fan base know, we are lacking in central defence and up front this year and this is the reason we could very well go down

Oh and a relatively inept Manager hasnt helped!!

12th? I think in terms of squad strength this is the minimum we should be looking at. We have notable weaknesses throughout the team though.

Good to get this in one thread.

My opinion is that we have a good squad, which should be comfortable top 10 and with a bit of investment, in key areas (CB, quick / creative winger and possibly CF - similar to Austin but more reliable), could compete with Everton to be pushing top 7.

We have a few very good players (good enough for top 6), a number of good players (good enough for mid-table / top 10) and a number of players who are good/very good, who just aren't currently performing at the level we need / they have the ability to. I'd argue that only 3 of our regular starting squad is not good enough for the PL (Long, Stephens and Davis).

The way I look at it is that outside of the big 6, only Everton and Leicester have a better all round squad than us. I would say we are about level with West Ham and just ahead of Stoke.

Of course it isn't just the managers fault - a number of players aren't performing like we know they can (because we've seen it - I.e Gabbi, Forster, Boufal, Redmond - at times) and he hasn't been helped by an incompetent board, who continually fail to address area's in which it's clear we are very weak.

Massive surgery is a bit OTT, imo. 3/4 players (and to keep / get the best out of what we have) and a new half competent manager, should do it.

Priority's

- A solid senior CB to play next to Hoedt (at 23 years old, new to the PL, he should not be our senior CB).

- A right winger who has pace (Promes or Sisto for me) we never truly replaced Mane.

- A CF (Austin is good enough, he is just not fit enough, enough of the time). I've not seen enough of Carrillo to make a judgement so don't want to write him off, but he could fit the bill.

Possibly

- A new GK (Forster is about our level, when playing to even 70% of his top ability).

A must

- New manager, one that can get more out of our under performing players.

much better than 18th in the league with 5 wins from 27 league games

How much better? How do we compare? Where should we be then?

Nicely summed up. Although I would say our CBs are championship at best. Our attack options are the same, championship, attacking mid options as you say well below premier league (far too inconsistent and far too often way below best form), other mid options, bottom half prem, full backs, mid/top half table, gk, mid table, back up options championship at best. All in all after having a top half table/european candidates squad to this is appalling recruitment, and just shows why we are where we are. Are we really better than 18th? Which games have we played that have said we are good? We have been poor all season, that is because we are a poor side, with poor leadership and poor behind the scenes leadership.

IF we stay up, and it is a really big IF, massive surgery is indeed required.

much better than 18th in the league with 5 wins from 27 league games

technically we did win the Watford away game

but yeah 6 wins in 27 doesn't help the cause any better tbh

How much better? How do we compare? Where should we be then?

Brighton

huddersfield

Bournemouth

newcastle

swansea

how many of those players would comfortably make our side?

be lucky to make a starting 11 from the bottom half of the league.

That is how I compare

Just going to repost what I said in another thread:

We have a squad featuring McC, Bertrand, Cedric, Hoedt, Hojbjerg, Romeu, Lemina, Tadic, Gabbi, Yoshida and JWP and we're in the relegation zone. The rest may be average at best but f**k me, that squad should be top half.

Go back a couple of years to threads on this forum about who we should buy and most people looked at our team and said the one thing we were missing was a top central attacking midfield player, someone in the mould of Eriksen. We haven't signed that player but moreover over the last three years we have lost Schneiderlin, Clyne, Alderweireld (okay he was only on loan), Wanyama, Mane, Pelle, Fonte and Van Dijk and while we have made some good signings since then (Romeu, Cedric, Austin, Lemina), I struggle to see how anyone we have bought in the last three years (Van Dijk aside, who has left anyway) was actually an improvement on the players we lost. Romeu has done well but is he as good as Schneiderlin was? Cedric good but not as good as Clyne IMO. Austin injured too much. Lemina good but as good as Wanyama? Players like Redmond, Boufal, Gabbiadini and Hoj have all been inconsistent.

If we have any intention of getting back to challenging top six/top four as we did under Poch and Koeman then I think we need most of a new team. Only Bertrand, Lemina and Tadic (if he can regain 2014-16 form) are at that level now (although perhaps some of the newer players could be with more experience).

Right now I think we are a lower mid-table team unfortunately, mostly because whilst our play is tidy enough in most respects, we aren't good enough in each box and that is where games are won and lost. With a commanding CB and a decent centre forward we would be competing with Leicester and Everton for 7th-9th but at the moment we are below that.

Of course in reality we are 18th in the league and several wins short of where we should be with these players and that is mostly because we have got a duff manager

Go back a couple of years to threads on this forum about who we should buy and most people looked at our team and said the one thing we were missing was a top central attacking midfield player, someone in the mould of Eriksen. We haven't signed that player but moreover over the last three years we have lost Schneiderlin, Clyne, Alderweireld (okay he was only on loan), Wanyama, Mane, Pelle, Fonte and Van Dijk and while we have made some good signings since then (Romeu, Cedric, Austin, Lemina), I struggle to see how anyone we have bought in the last three years (Van Dijk aside, who has left anyway) was actually an improvement on the players we lost. Romeu has done well but is he as good as Schneiderlin was? Cedric good but not as good as Clyne IMO. Austin injured too much. Lemina good but as good as Wanyama? Players like Redmond, Boufal, Gabbiadini and Hoj have all been inconsistent.

 

If we have any intention of getting back to challenging top six/top four as we did under Poch and Koeman then I think we need most of a new team. Only Bertrand, Lemina and Tadic (if he can regain 2014-16 form) are at that level now (although perhaps some of the newer players could be with more experience).

 

Right now I think we are a lower mid-table team unfortunately, mostly because whilst our play is tidy enough in most respects, we aren't good enough in each box and that is where games are won and lost. With a commanding CB and a decent centre forward we would be competing with Leicester and Everton for 7th-9th but at the moment we are below that.

 

Of course in reality we are 18th in the league and several wins short of where we should be with these players and that is mostly because we have got a duff manager

Spot on with this bit of the post.

Our squad is average at best hence where we are............ Should of replaced Pelle and Mane properly. The Van D money could of got us at least three players who could make an immediate impact instead we overpay on a striker who has no premier league experience and looks average at best.....

I think the problem is we HAD players of the quality that you mentioned and probably better......Toby, VVD, Wanyama, Mane etc but they have been sold and either not been replaced or been replaced with poorer players. I'm not sure we haven't dipped in with a couple of loan signings like WBA, Swansea, Newcastle did either.

Our transfer market business is VERY poor

I think the squad is no better or worse than a mid table Premier League squad so anything between 8th and 14th.

It is nowhere near as good as the squads that Pochettino and Koeman had and the fault for that lies solely with those who run the club.

Go back a couple of years to threads on this forum about who we should buy and most people looked at our team and said the one thing we were missing was a top central attacking midfield player, someone in the mould of Eriksen. We haven't signed that player but moreover over the last three years we have lost Schneiderlin, Clyne, Alderweireld (okay he was only on loan), Wanyama, Mane, Pelle, Fonte and Van Dijk and while we have made some good signings since then (Romeu, Cedric, Austin, Lemina), I struggle to see how anyone we have bought in the last three years (Van Dijk aside, who has left anyway) was actually an improvement on the players we lost. Romeu has done well but is he as good as Schneiderlin was? Cedric good but not as good as Clyne IMO. Austin injured too much. Lemina good but as good as Wanyama? Players like Redmond, Boufal, Gabbiadini and Hoj have all been inconsistent.

 

If we have any intention of getting back to challenging top six/top four as we did under Poch and Koeman then I think we need most of a new team. Only Bertrand, Lemina and Tadic (if he can regain 2014-16 form) are at that level now (although perhaps some of the newer players could be with more experience).

 

Right now I think we are a lower mid-table team unfortunately, mostly because whilst our play is tidy enough in most respects, we aren't good enough in each box and that is where games are won and lost. With a commanding CB and a decent centre forward we would be competing with Leicester and Everton for 7th-9th but at the moment we are below that.

 

Of course in reality we are 18th in the league and several wins short of where we should be with these players and that is mostly because we have got a duff manager

We have made a conscious decision to persist with a manager who is defensively minded. This stilted our attack and resulted in giving a free pass to attack us for most of every second half. Inevitably we conceded goals and matches we could have drawn or won

There has been some bad luck but we shackled our own ability to win matches.

Persisting with players like Redmond and Fraser when everyone knew they needed to be dropped was just poor management

The failure to reinforce properly in the window means we lack some cover and have a striker trying to find his feet in the premier league

We have really shot ourselves in the foot. We will sack Pellegrino but the stubborn decision not to sack a manager with a 16% win ratio when such results would have got him sacked in any other club in the world will be laid at uncle Les s door if we get relegated

The odds are if we continue the seasons form we will go down through sheer bad management of the club

Who seriously wants Pellegrino here for another season

I agree with a recent comment by Sam Allardyce that outside the top 6, any team can have a bad run and find itself struggling at the bottom end of the table.

It's an interesting point, one I would agree with. There's very lttle difference in squad strength, although all have various strengths and weaknesses. I would say making the difference comes down to a few factors:

1. Fitness. We've conceded far to many late goals and that's a sign of a lack of fitness. Given that we don't even play particularly quickly, it is even more disappointing.

2. Attitude. Interesting reading the book on Pochettino, the first thing he does every day before training is to watch the players arrive for breakfast and see what mood they are in and what their attitude is. Too many of our players don't look like they're enjoying their football in comparison to some other teams (e.g. Brighton, Huddersfield & Palace spring to mind), although there are others in the same boat e.g. West Brom.

3. In-game Management. I'd include the lack of consistency in team selection as well, Pellegrino seems to have stopped rotating as much as he did before Christmas. His substitutions have also improved but he still needs to more attack minded.

Better than the teams around us, but weaker than for four season prior.

At one stage under Koeman especially we had 4 or 5 players who we all thought were probably CL quality.

We just sold the last one in January.

Lots of average players in our squad though, should have a summer clearout.

Decent OP. I agree with vast majority of the post. In summary, a very average squad but should not be in the bottom 3.

I think an on form Tadic has proven he is a top 8 player if he is played on the left, however he is missing Pelle badly. I don't like the way he throws himself around & he will never be a quality #10 as he cannot shoot from distance.

I actually think in hindsight that Puel did a decent job with last seasons limited squad. Yes the football was spectacularly dull at home, but points wise I think that is about our level baring in mind he didn't have VVD or Austin for much of the season.

I wanted him out ultimately as I struggled to accept the drop off in points from under Koeman. I truly failed to recognize how average this squad is, nearly 2 seasons of poor results is not a fluke.

Our model is no longer working IMO, mainly due to poor recruitment across the club.

I find the comments that we can compete with the top six to keep top class players totally unrealistic.

We have a potentially very good young CB learning his trade, we don't have a reliable striker.

The midfield and full backs are very strong.

the best players will only go to the top clubs.

we have been incredibly skilful/fortunate in finding excellent replacements in past years but perhaps other clubs have caught up.

We've had a poor season, but hopefully we will stay up.

Get real moaners , we were in the third division south when I and my schoolfriends started supporting.

I find the comments that we can compete with the top six to keep top class players totally unrealistic.

We have a potentially very good young CB learning his trade, we don't have a reliable striker.

The midfield and full backs are very strong.

the best players will only go to the top clubs.

we have been incredibly skilful/fortunate in finding excellent replacements in past years but perhaps other clubs have caught up.

We've had a poor season, but hopefully we will stay up.

Get real moaners , we were in the third division south when I and my schoolfriends started supporting.

This with knobs on. I also think the club is unusually well run. If we go down, does anyone seriously see us doing a Sunderland? Not me, and for that I'm very thankful.

Probably slightly better than their league position ,but not by a lot. People keep saying that we are far better than the table suggests,I have seen enough to think otherwise.

I think the Relative Squad Quality League lines up something like this tbh:

Man City

Man Utd, Tottenham, Chelsea

Arsenal, Liverpool

Everton

Southampton, Leicester, West Ham

Stoke, West Brom, Palace

Watford, Swansea, Newcastle

Bournemouth, Burnley, Brighton

Huddersfield

 

Our transfer market business is VERY poor

I don’t think it’s very poor taken in isolation, only when compared with previous years. Our business was exceptional and it’s now average for clubs of our size.

Lemina looks a good spot, on the day they signed was Boufal any worse than Mane, Mane’s trained on, Boufal hasn’t. Wes whilst not in VvD’s class had a reputation as good as Lovren‘s was at Lyon. Guido or Pelle is a bit too early to judge, but Pelle would struggle to score in this set up. The buys look a lot worse because the overall standard of the team is a lot worse. If Wes came into the Poch side with Shaw, Clyne, Jose, Vic and Morgan protecting him, would he look like bambi on ice or would he slot in like Lovren did.

It’s just too easy to say our signings are poor. Look at how some of the players have fared away from here, Morgan, Chambers, Jose. They looked good players, playing with good players and for a good manager. How would they play now in a side as average as ours, with a manager as poor as ours. You’re not comparing like for like, not that it’s possible to. Would Boufal be as inept under Poch, playing alongside Lallana , Lambert & JRod? Doubt it.

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I think its more to do with weaknesses off the field rather than on it.

The players we have are capable of a mid table position at least but are unfortunately managed by an incapable manager.

I think we’ve still got a pretty good squad overall.

However at this level there’s very little between 7th & 18th

We haven’t played anywhere to our potential and have a manager who hasn’t helped with his tactical impact in games.

Relative to other PL squads - 9th or thereabouts.

Relative to all the teams in the big leagues e.g. Germany - bottom third.

As a standalone: capable but nowhere near good enough to be the team continually challenging for honours and European spots as LR would have said before we became a 'small club'.

Anyone know what the 5 pledges are yet? I might have missed their announcement.

We need a decent manager to help the players with identifying their weaknesses and helping to remedy them. If we had that we are definitely top half squad imo.

GK - Our first choice was Crystal Palace's backup. He couldn't get a game here for the longest time even while Forster was quite clearly struggling.

CB - Both Stephens/Hoedt are a step down on Fonte/VVD/Alderweireld/Lovren. They still have plenty of years to become solid players but they're not there yet.

RB - Cedric is ok but not great in an attack with his wayward crosses, and gets caught out fairly often on crosses to the far post where he can't compete in the air (that's more the CB's fault). Clyne was definitely better as a modern fullback.

LB - Bertrand is generally solid.

DM - Romeu is a step down on Wanyama. Couldn't get a game while Wanyama was still here.

CM - Hojbjerg shows glimpses of really good things. I think in a few years he can be the player Schneiderlin was for us, but he's not at Morgan's level yet. Lemina generally looks goods and an upgrade on Davis.

Wingers - Tadic is quality if he has people to assist. Not a good finisher. Boufal flatters to deceive and has been woeful for us (though I can see why we bought him). JWP isn't really good at anything but he gets in better attacking positions than most of our other attacking players. We really lack a Lallana/Mane that can dribble through and linkup.

Strikers - Austin is a step down from Lambert/Pelle. Long/Gabbi are clearly not the type of player we need. Jury's still out on Carillo.

Our strikers don't take chances or even get into the right position for a chance, and our defenders make mistakes too often that lets other teams in. We don't have on-field leaders in any of the lines. We don't have any strong physical players to win the ball/headers.

All in all I'd say our 1st XI is probably around 15th best in the league.

I don’t think it’s very poor taken in isolation, only when compared with previous years. Our business was exceptional and it’s now average for clubs of our size.

 

Lemina looks a good spot, on the day they signed was Boufal any worse than Mane, Mane’s trained on, Boufal hasn’t. Wes whilst not in VvD’s class had a reputation as good as Lovren‘s was at Lyon. Guido or Pelle is a bit too early to judge, but Pelle would struggle to score in this set up. The buys look a lot worse because the overall standard of the team is a lot worse. If Wes came into the Poch side with Shaw, Clyne, Jose, Vic and Morgan protecting him, would he look like bambi on ice or would he slot in like Lovren did.

 

It’s just too easy to say our signings are poor. Look at how some of the players have fared away from here, Morgan, Chambers, Jose. They looked good players, playing with good players and for a good manager. How would they play now in a side as average as ours, with a manager as poor as ours. You’re not comparing like for like, not that it’s possible to. Would Boufal be as inept under Poch, playing alongside Lallana , Lambert & JRod? Doubt it.

 

 

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I take your point but it's also the lack of money we spend compared to money coming in from sales and I stand by the fact that January transfer window was a farce. One of the first players to leave any club in the window was VVD and we had the whole month to replace him and didn't. We saw the likes of Walcott, Sturridge, Promes etc not arrive and we end up with Monaco's 3rd choice striker leaving £50 million in someones pocket. I doubt that will be spent in the summer and by that time it'll be conveniently forgotten about. A lot of other teams seemed to be doing good business even with some loans but again we failed to even achieve this.

A couple of season ago you could argue we had the best squad outside the top 6 - and our first 11 could compete with more or less anyone in the Premier League - but now its probably a mid table squad at best.

The Big Six, Leicester and Everton all have stronger squads without a doubt - and we are now probably on a level with West Ham, Stoke, Palace and Watford. And you could argue that clubs like Brighton, WBA, Burnley and Bournemouth aren't much worse off. But the team is only really as bad as its weakest link - and in defence and attack we have some big holes. You could argue for example that Brighton have a better centre back pairing than us.

With a better manager and different style of play could we get more out of the squad? Yes we could but that is why we are in the bottom 3 and not mid table. With the squad we have 10th and a cup final would be a great season.

Although the style of play was terrible - and the points total was a lot worse than the finish looked - Puel did well on paper to finish 8th and get us to a cup final with that squad last season.

We are seriously unbalanced. Impotent strike force and defensive frailties. Strong midfield. Add in a manager who seems incapable of motivating or adopting tactics to mitigate the weaknesses and you are staring at relegation.

Overall we have a very limited squad with few players who are clearly above average for the PL (Romeu) and perhaps one or maybe with more potential to become top four candidates (Lemina, Bertrand). The rest you might as well bin.

We struggle to score and constantly give away sloppy goals, if you cant get it right at those ends of the pitch it doesn't matter how good everything in between is, you will always struggle.

GK - A shamles, McCarthy is competent but his competence only highlights how poor Forster has been for over a year

Full Backs - Both decent enough although Bertrand wants out

Centre Backs - Hoedt is decent enough but should not be our senior Centre back. Then we have Stephens who cannot defend, Yoshida who is okay, Bednerak which is just an odd signing and the unfortunate Gardos. Those 5 are the very definition of stock piling of averageness.

Midfield - Pretty much of muchness with Lemina the only real player of any quality at the moment

Strikers - Austin never fit, Long never scores, Gabbiadini never plays, Carillio too early to say but early signs not overly promising.

then there is the manager, less said about him the better.

And our DOF, an obese pensioner whose achievements on Wiki include buying Chris Smalling for nothing and selling him for £10m and writing a coach book which you can now buy for one whole penny on Amazon. Enough said

And our chairman, a cliché ridden buffon who as well as presiding over a rapid decline on the pitch has also failed to deliver the 5 pledges on time, which were literally on his desk only 5 weeks ago.

We lack pace and power in forward positions.

Our 'best' GK has declined rapidly and that has caused some issues, but defensively, even without VVD I think we are fine, we have good full backs and decent centre-backs (I think given time Hoedt will be quality).

We have very good defensive/all round mids in the likes of Romeu and Lemina (though Romeu has been below his best this season). I think arguably looking at the back four of the likes of Arsenal, Liverpool and even Man Utd, defensively if Cedric and Romeu were closer to their best you could say there is not a huge amount of difference there.

Going forward is the problem, we have neat and tidy players like JWP and Davis who are fine, but aren't going to do much on their own, we have a talented but frustrating player in Tadic who doesn't consistently score and lacks pace, we have a good striker in Austin who is injury prone, and then we have another creative but inconsistent player in Boufal.

Going forward the jigsaw is just not there, we lack that quick powerful player in the Mane mould, we lack the goalscoring creative no 10, and our only consistent goal scorer is in reality consistent in his injuries.

We could be better defensively, but the problem in reality is goals and that creates extra pressure on your defence because when we are in control or games we don't score more than 1 usually, then the opposition put pressure on us and we are desperately holding onto a 1 goal lead when in reality we should be 2-3 up.

GK - This area is a little bit confused. Fraser seems to have totally lost his way and whilst McCarthy is decent he was only brought in as backup originally. Then you have random signings like Jack Rose and the young kid - Harry Lewis - who still looks a bit far away. It's probably more of a 'nice to have' rather than a necessity, but it would be interesting to see if we can improve the GK situation. It's average at the moment.

CB - This area is a mess in my opinion. 3 transfer windows of incompetence from the club. We ignored the opportunity to replace Fonte and we have once again ignored the opportunity to replace a CB in VVD. Stephens and Yoshida should be 3rd and 4th choice respectively if we are serious about being where we were a couple of years ago, but both of these guys are now key components. Hoedt was an investment and technically looks very capable, but he is still very inexperienced and prone to some crazy giraffe like tricks with his feet.

In the summer this area needs serious surgery, at least two incoming. One of them needs to be a powerful, dominant and athletic defender, who will complement the likes of Hoedt and Stephens who are the more ball playing CB’s.

WB's - Not too bad as we stand, probably the area with the most 'quality'. Cedric does flatter to deceive, but he's not a bad player. Bertrand is probably our best player right now. McQueen and Targett behind him are also more than capable. We probably need to look at an addition to put some pressure on Cedric as I don't think Pied is really up to it. If we keep this area 'as it is', it's not a disaster.

CM - Decent. Hoj, Lemina, Romeu, JWP, Davis. Good options, they're all a bit samey though and we lack one ingredient in there. I'd like to see the club invest in a Wanyama style CM in the summer, we only really have Romeu who can play that role and he has looked a little off colour for 18 months or so.

If you have a Wanyama style player sitting, offering height and the ability to head the ball in the middle of the park, you can then free up Lemina and Hoj/JWP to become more progressive with their passing towards the final third. I'd look to move Davis to a very minimal role over the next year, he has been a very good player for us but it looks like his legs have gone now. Doesn't seem to be able to keep up with the pace of the game, not strong enough to play in the positions we want to play him (CM).

AM - Boufal/Tadic/Redmond/JWP - Along with the CB area, this is the other area in the side in need of serious, serious surgery. There is quality individually, but there is seemingly no blend between the options and they're again very samey. Good technically, not very quick and struggle to get in behind. This is where someone like Quincy Promes would have been a positive, we need pace in the final third to keep the play quick. When teams setup with blocks of 4, you very rarely get through the middle of them - you need the pace and directness to get down the sides and in behind. We do not have that ingredient in our final third, it's all very much in front of the opposition which is where a lot of our problems lie.

ST - Carrillo/Gabbiadini/Long/Austin – Bit of a mish mash of strikers for me. Long and Gabbiadini are support strikers, not very strong or powerful and they're not prolific goal scorers themselves. (probably being kind to Long there..). Carrillo may be the outlet over time and allow Long and Gabbadini to get themselves more involved, but the jury is still out a little for me.

Overall, we have pockets of quality which you'd say shouldn't be anywhere near the position we are. The problem we have comes from a poor mix of players in certain positions, lack of options and poor setups. A combination of a very poor recruitment policy that hasn't understood the squad’s weaknesses and a very poor coaching setup which has failed to address the issues tactically.

Think right now, we're at about 14th/15th level. Two major weaknesses in defending and scoring will mean we can't be regarded as a top half team IMO. We do have underperforming players right now, but it's a struggle.

Buy:

Dominant CB to play alongside Hoedt, madness we've been left with one of Yoshida/Stephens/Bednarek as first choice

Proper CF - Carrillo looks ok, Austin ok, Long & Gabbi meh.

Winger to play on the right. (with pace)

You get to something like...

...................McCarthy....................

Cedric......NEW......Hoedt.....Bertrand

..........Hojbjerg......Lemina............

NEW..............Boufal...............Tadic

.....................NEW.......................

Leaves...

Forster,

Stephens, Bednarek, Yoshida, McQueen, Targett,

Romeu, Davis, JWP, Reed

Redmond

Gabbiadini, Carrillo, Long, Austin

Also think we probably need to bring in another player who can play instead of Tadic / Boufal.

Get to that and there is no excuse to not being top half.

Think right now, we're at about 14th/15th level. Two major weaknesses in defending and scoring will mean we can't be regarded as a top half team IMO. We do have underperforming players right now, but it's a struggle.

 

Buy:

Dominant CB to play alongside Hoedt, madness we've been left with one of Yoshida/Stephens/Bednarek as first choice

Proper CF - Carrillo looks ok, Austin ok, Long & Gabbi meh.

Winger to play on the right. (with pace)

 

You get to something like...

 

...................McCarthy....................

Cedric......NEW......Hoedt.....Bertrand

.....Hojbjerg...Romeu...Lemina........

NEW..............Boufal...............Tadic

.....................NEW.......................

 

Leaves...

 

Forster,

Stephens, Bednarek, Yoshida, McQueen, Targett,

Davis, JWP, Reed

Redmond

Gabbiadini, Carrillo, Long, Austin

 

Also think we probably need to bring in another player who can play instead of Tadic / Boufal.

 

Get to that and there is no excuse to not being top half.

hmm a 4-3-3-1 formation.

reckon we would win the league playing with 12 every game!

If you have a Wanyama style player sitting, offering height and the ability to head the ball in the middle of the park

Would you describe Wanyama as Tall? I wouldn't have thought he was taller than Romeu or Hogpog particularly

IF we stay up then I think we need an overhaul in the summer.

(obviously new manager as well)

Outs should be -

Tadic - I think time we cashed in on him, hasn't been near his best for a few years now and at 29 his value is going to decline, plus he just doesn't score enough goals to justify a starting place as an attacking player IMO, 19 goals in nearly 150 games for us.

Davis - Past his best IMO

Forster - doubt we'll find any takers.

Redmond - just not good enough.

Bertrand - I think he is expecting to be allowed to go and probably we'll get peak value from him

Gabbi - Like him but it has not worked out for him.

Long - Just not good enough, hopefully we can get a cash rich championship club to take him

Gardos - no idea why he is still here.

Clasie - if someone will take him.

We'd then need -

- New GK,

- New CB to partner Hoedt, a physical presence who is good in the air. Yoshida and Stephens would be back up.

- New left back (I'd rescue Shaw if he'd come)

- 2 new wide players, with pace and power, Promes is we can get him and another. Sims then is able to be the other option and basically replaces Redmond.

- New attacking mid/no10. to challenge Boufal, someone who is able to score from outside the box.

- New striker to challenge Austin, you'd then have Austin, Carrillo, new guy and then Gallagher back.

Of course we'll do none of that, we'll probably sign one player and then give a load of the underperforming players new 5 year contracts.

Would you describe Wanyama as Tall? I wouldn't have thought he was taller than Romeu or Hogpog particularly

Pretty sure he was taller than Romeu at least, but he had that physicality about him as well. He was a lot more dominant in the air through the middle anyway.

It’s a squad that should not be in the mess it’s in - you can blame the manager for that. We severely lack pace in the side to suit playing with one up front. We also lack a commanding CB - seen us bullied too many times this season. The midfield also does not offer enough driving forward and making dangerous passes (look at an fit Wilshere) and through balls.

Depending on which league we are in we should be looking at a commanding CB, pacey winger and a creative midfielder, bring back Gallagher and consider signing another CF and GK. Oh and a new manager willing to play a high tempo/press.

Sell Long, Gabbiadini, Davis, Forster and Boufal for those replacements.

IF we stay up then I think we need an overhaul in the summer.

 

(obviously new manager as well)

 

Outs should be -

 

Tadic - I think time we cashed in on him, hasn't been near his best for a few years now and at 29 his value is going to decline, plus he just doesn't score enough goals to justify a starting place as an attacking player IMO, 19 goals in nearly 150 games for us.

Davis - Past his best IMO

Forster - doubt we'll find any takers.

Redmond - just not good enough.

Bertrand - I think he is expecting to be allowed to go and probably we'll get peak value from him

Gabbi - Like him but it has not worked out for him.

Long - Just not good enough, hopefully we can get a cash rich championship club to take him

Gardos - no idea why he is still here.

Clasie - if someone will take him.

 

 

We'd then need -

 

- New GK,

- New CB to partner Hoedt, a physical presence who is good in the air. Yoshida and Stephens would be back up.

- New left back (I'd rescue Shaw if he'd come)

- 2 new wide players, with pace and power, Promes is we can get him and another. Sims then is able to be the other option and basically replaces Redmond.

- New attacking mid/no10. to challenge Boufal, someone who is able to score from outside the box.

- New striker to challenge Austin, you'd then have Austin, Carrillo, new guy and then Gallagher back.

 

 

Of course we'll do none of that, we'll probably sign one player and then give a load of the underperforming players new 5 year contracts.

The issue is with the exception of Bertrand ( and possibly Tadic) I'm not sure there will be many takers for most of those "outs" . Even if we do the players probably aren't going to be to impressed with their new wage offers and might decide to sit on those nice big contracts.

Pretty sure he was taller than Romeu at least, but he had that physicality about him as well. He was a lot more dominant in the air through the middle anyway.

Interestingly we are pretty low down the table for the headed clearances stats this season (14th place 334 headed clearances) weirdly the teams below us in that stat are City, Liverpool, Chelsea, Spurs, Arsenal and Crystal palace (?) I guess the best teams keep the ball better so have to deal with a lot less high balls into the box not surprisingly Burnley have the most headed clearances in the league this season....so expect saints to bombard their box with high crosses all game

https://www.premierleague.com/stats/top/clubs/head_clearance

The issue is with the exception of Bertrand ( and possibly Tadic) I'm not sure there will be many takers for most of those "outs" . Even if we do the players probably aren't going to be to impressed with their new wage offers and might decide to sit on those nice big contracts.

Certainly a possibility, I'd reckon Davis might accept moving to play more, Gabbi might be happy to take a pay cut to return home.

Forster is certainly problematic, can't see anyone taking him for a decent amount or taking on his wages.

I suspect we'll end up doing what many clubs have to do with their flops, which is pay part of their wages until the end of their current contracts. This will also impact wages available for new players, but I think the squad is probably a little bloated in certain areas anyway (like centre-mid we have Lemina, Romeu, JWP, Davis, Hojberg, plus Clasie and Reed on loan) and we should probably be in the position where our 3rd/4th choices in most positions should be from the academy, players like Gallagher, Sims, Reed, McQueen, Alfie jones etc. are they really any worse to having the likes of Redmond, Bedernak, Clasie, Long etc. sitting on the bench on much higher wages.

We still have a bloated first team squad for a Europa league campaign we got knocked out of last year.

Well I'd take Burnley's CBs over our calamity duo, Pope (GK) seems to be having a good season and Jack Cork is arguably as good as Romeu and HoJ.

Well I'd take Burnley's CBs over our calamity duo, Pope (GK) seems to be having a good season and Jack Cork is arguably as good as Romeu and HoJ.

On paper - Probably about 8th-13th

Last season's top 7, West Ham, Leicester have all got better squads than us on paper IMO.

West Ham?! Not a chance.

Based on???

To answer the OP, not as good as most on here think. I think we are basically in the same bracket as about 9th downwards. We probably aren't bad as the position we are in suggests, but nor are we any better than that bracket.