Do you think Kat gives a monkeys about ruining her father's legacy

Sorry but this is a load of rubbish and I mean no disrespect in saying that.

 

This whole loan thing really drives me up the wall.

 

It was HER business. She OWNED it. When you own something you are expected to put your own money into it. That's called investment. If she took over and didn't put a penny in we would of sunk like a stone. Which would have devalued the club meaning the prospects of selling it become less and less. These £70 million debts you talk of do not exist. They never did. Cortese asked for money to be put into the infrastructure of the club. The money went into the academy and into the training facilities. Which are now world class. Would you rather we didn't do that and have left things as they were? Because of doing that added value to the assets of the company. Then after it was all said and done she not only got every penny her family put into the club back she made a huge profit on it.

 

I have no issue with Kat. She is a business lady from a business family surrounded by business people. Some people wish to create some kind of emotional factor with her. One that doesn't exist with other companies. The harsh reality is Kat is not stupid. She will have clever people around her advising her on the assets she inherited. They will be paid a vast sum of money to tell her when something is a good investment and when something has reached its peak value and its time to sell. That is how the business world works.

 

Some people think she cares because she kept a stake in the club. Well if that was true why did she sell off the vast majority of it? She could have sold 51% stake for around £120m which would make her receive a huge profit. But it also means if things go wrong and we fall on tough times she only needs to buy 2% of the shares to regain control. That didn't happen and when companies do that they basically want out. She is in no position now to have any power in the club.

 

Which brings me onto the people she sold too. What do we know about these people? We know they took out a loan to buy the club. We know that Mr Gao has been convicted on corruption and was spared if he turned witness and testified against other people. Which he did and they were then executed. We know that the PL originally had concerns about him and at 1st rejected him. Does this sound like someone who you would entrust with something you care about? I doubt it.

 

Everything from the top to the bottom seems off and very worrying. Kat justified her selling by saying the new owners would take us to the next level. Implying they would invest and bridge the gap a little to fighting for that 6th spot. That didn't happen. The first major thing they did was sell our best player in January whilst we were in a relegation battle for a vast amount of money. And then they only invested a fraction of it back into the team. As others have eluded to the actions from the owners and board seem way too relaxed. It means they are either very dumb or simply do not care.

 

We have heard nothing from them. We get a photo of them now and then but none of us have a clue what is going on behind closed doors. What happened to that statement/pledges we were supposedly going to get?

 

So as I mentioned if you take away the emotional aspect of football Kat did what every business person does. Buy low, invest and raise the value, sell and make profit. In her case she made a massive profit. The future will show if who she sold us to is who she said he is with the intentions she said he had. If not then whatever you may think of her she will be just as much to blame for the clubs downward spiral as anyone else and shouldn't be immune to criticism.

"The money went into the academy and into the training facilities. Which are now world class."

The training facilities may be fine, no more than a Premier League club needs, but the Academy? World Class? Do me a feckin' favour. Falling over ourselves with talent competing for places, claiming their 1st team places are we? Some years ago (much as I hate to say it, in Lowe's time) we made some dosh from a few. We have made money since then by buying in and then reselling. Otherwise the production line has been as productive as a BHS pension.

Kat has sold out, end of.

 

I remember the statement "I will leave the club in safe hands", hmmmm.

I think she meant the Receiver.

Business wise, she played a blinder - she is the equivalent of the Carillion boss who sold all his shares just before the merde hit the fan for a truck load of money.

 

She finished asset stripping by selling everything with a value, and then offloaded to some shady chinese 'businessman'.

 

Do you think ML would be turning in his grave about how his daughter systematically destroyed the club?

Is the club in a better position now then when ML took over, yes but that's no test as we were on our knees. Is the club in a better position now than take over day minus 5 years, yes. We have had a series of decent finishes, cup final, most expensive wage bill, most expensive squad, over hauled the training facilities.

We are having a sit season because we have a **** manager, but we are far from being systematically destroyed.

We are having a sit season because we have a **** manager, but we are far from being systematically destroyed.

Rubbish. The same clowns at the top making p*ss-poor decisions and mgmt appointments are there.

Is the club in a better position now then when ML took over, yes but that's no test as we were on our knees. Is the club in a better position now than take over day minus 5 years, yes. We have had a series of decent finishes, cup final, most expensive wage bill, most expensive squad, over hauled the training facilities.

 

We are having a sit season because we have a **** manager, but we are far from being systematically destroyed.

Let's see what the club's true debt situation is before we start celebrating having the highest financial commitments in our history as an unalloyed good.

So she’s flogged the club to a Chinese criminal and we are supposed to respect her?

Why oh why couldn't she have sold to a good old fashioned British criminal. Answer me that.

So she’s flogged the club to a Chinese criminal and we are supposed to respect her?

I wished we had been sold to a British owner, ones like the really popular Oyston family or Mike Ashley would've been brilliant.

Why oh why couldn't she have sold to a good old fashioned British criminal. Answer me that.

I would be happy with a decent owner from any country. One not involved with bribery and corruption.

The other thing that's probably worth remembering is that she was actually much less wealthy than initially reported, so the loans she made to the club were probably a very significant proportion of her net worth at the time. This would explain a lot both in terms of the need for bridging loans from BVA and her desire to push through the Gao deal so she could finally make the majority of her inheritance liquid after five or six years.

I think this is a very important point that is often overlooked. There is no way that her personal fortune was anywhere near the £3bn figure that the UK press reported. This seemed to come out of half of the worth of the Liebherr corp when Markus left but I strongly doubt if he ever was given anything like this in cash for his part of the family business.

There is certainly nothing in his collection of businesses that he left in his will to suggest there was a great business empire there. It was a few small operations which were closed down asap by Kat (remember the headless chicken newspaper article) and then Mali which seemed to have nothing more than a one page web-site holding site. Certainly nothing to think she had inherited £3bn.

I think buying an asset for £13m and selling (80% of it) for a cool quarter of a billion was the best piece of business her or her Father ever did. Whatever her net worth is now I suspect by far the majority of this is from the sale of SFC.

Two things I’m surprised about...

1. That Kat managed to sell to Goa given the background and then retained 20% for some reason.

2. That the Admin team on this site have allowed such a distasteful and defamatory title to this thread.

 

In my view there was legacy of achievement left over from the Cortese era and it is the rising influence of dear old Les Reed that has seen the gradual decline of the clubs fortunes. He is responsible and therefore accountable for the footballing aspect of the business, but somehow will retire a rich and happy man when we get relegated.

I don't think the tax evasion case against her has been proven yet.

I would be happy with a decent owner from any country. One not involved with bribery and corruption.

I couldn't care who she sold to if they were willing to pump their own £££ into the club - Unfortunately it looks like Goa or Kat isn't.

So she’s flogged the club to a Chinese criminal and we are supposed to respect her?

If someone offered me £200 Million for a business, I'd take it and run. I couldn't give two sh1ts what they did with it regardless of whether it was my father's legacy. Sorry but sentiment only goes so far.

If someone offered me £200 Million for a business, I'd take it and run. I couldn't give two sh1ts what they did with it regardless of whether it was my father's legacy. Sorry but sentiment only goes so far.

I don't disagree, but there is no reason why the people left to pick up the pieces should respect you for it.

I don't disagree, but there is no reason why the people left to pick up the pieces should respect you for it.

And likewise, I don't disagree with that.

If someone offered me £200 Million for a business, I'd take it and run. I couldn't give two sh1ts what they did with it regardless of whether it was my father's legacy. Sorry but sentiment only goes so far.

Which in a nutshell is exactly what is wrong with this country, no interest in being an entrepreneur and trying and turn £200M into £2000M or £2bn. Personal greed is all that matters and F everyone else!

Which in a nutshell is exactly what is wrong with this country, no interest in being an entrepreneur and trying and turn £200M into £2000M or £2bn. Personal greed is all that matters and F everyone else!

£200 Million would be plenty to live on for the rest of my life and see my family set too. Surely that's the opposite of greed? Not being bothered about quadrupling the fortune.

Sorry but this is a load of rubbish and I mean no disrespect in saying that.

 

This whole loan thing really drives me up the wall.

 

It was HER business. She OWNED it. When you own something you are expected to put your own money into it. That's called investment. If she took over and didn't put a penny in we would of sunk like a stone. Which would have devalued the club meaning the prospects of selling it become less and less. These £70 million debts you talk of do not exist. They never did. Cortese asked for money to be put into the infrastructure of the club. The money went into the academy and into the training facilities. Which are now world class. Would you rather we didn't do that and have left things as they were? Because of doing that added value to the assets of the company. Then after it was all said and done she not only got every penny her family put into the club back she made a huge profit on it.

 

I have no issue with Kat. She is a business lady from a business family surrounded by business people. Some people wish to create some kind of emotional factor with her. One that doesn't exist with other companies. The harsh reality is Kat is not stupid. She will have clever people around her advising her on the assets she inherited. They will be paid a vast sum of money to tell her when something is a good investment and when something has reached its peak value and its time to sell. That is how the business world works.

 

Some people think she cares because she kept a stake in the club. Well if that was true why did she sell off the vast majority of it? She could have sold 51% stake for around £120m which would make her receive a huge profit. But it also means if things go wrong and we fall on tough times she only needs to buy 2% of the shares to regain control. That didn't happen and when companies do that they basically want out. She is in no position now to have any power in the club.

 

Which brings me onto the people she sold too. What do we know about these people? We know they took out a loan to buy the club. We know that Mr Gao has been convicted on corruption and was spared if he turned witness and testified against other people. Which he did and they were then executed. We know that the PL originally had concerns about him and at 1st rejected him. Does this sound like someone who you would entrust with something you care about? I doubt it.

 

Everything from the top to the bottom seems off and very worrying. Kat justified her selling by saying the new owners would take us to the next level. Implying they would invest and bridge the gap a little to fighting for that 6th spot. That didn't happen. The first major thing they did was sell our best player in January whilst we were in a relegation battle for a vast amount of money. And then they only invested a fraction of it back into the team. As others have eluded to the actions from the owners and board seem way too relaxed. It means they are either very dumb or simply do not care.

 

We have heard nothing from them. We get a photo of them now and then but none of us have a clue what is going on behind closed doors. What happened to that statement/pledges we were supposedly going to get?

 

So as I mentioned if you take away the emotional aspect of football Kat did what every business person does. Buy low, invest and raise the value, sell and make profit. In her case she made a massive profit. The future will show if who she sold us to is who she said he is with the intentions she said he had. If not then whatever you may think of her she will be just as much to blame for the clubs downward spiral as anyone else and shouldn't be immune to criticism.

Spot on assessment fdrom whos business is M&A. The mystery is why Goa bought the club ?

Which in a nutshell is exactly what is wrong with this country, no interest in being an entrepreneur and trying and turn £200M into £2000M or £2bn. Personal greed is all that matters and F everyone else!

If you own a football club outside the top 6 of the PL, £300m is probably close to the notional ceiling for your investment anyway. If you want to 10x that figure your only realistic option is to sell and reinvest elsewhere.

Something is not right about this Chinese deal, no one spends £200mill on a club and just watches as it goes down the toilet.

Initially that makes sense but see it from Gao's view.

He borrows £200m. He then has control of assets which have circa £200m of player assets, a stadium worth circa £100m and (if relegated) payments of £90m. So the first move is to get £50m in on the player assets. He only needs to cash in £100m for the players and trouser the parachute payments and then sell the Club for circa £50m and then fund a few million for the interest payments and he has had a positive gain in his net worth without spending a penny of his own money.

Initially that makes sense but see it from Gao's view.

 

He borrows £200m. He then has control of assets which have circa £200m of player assets, a stadium worth circa £100m and (if relegated) payments of £90m. So the first move is to get £50m in on the player assets. He only needs to cash in £100m for the players and trouser the parachute payments and then sell the Club for circa £50m and then fund a few million for the interest payments and he has had a positive gain in his net worth without spending a penny of his own money.

In what parallel universe is SMS worth £100m? **** me!

If it was that much of a slam-dunk business case then there would have been a queue of people willing to put up the money and Kat wouldn't have had to wait for months while he cobbled it together and convinced the PL he wasn't too dodgy to be an owner.

Maybe he is ambivalent about relegation. Maybe he's dodgy as ****. Maybe he's a great guy whose heart is in the right place. Maybe he just thinks MP is the best man for the job and is making honest mistakes. Who knows?

Either way, if turning a quick and easy profit on the £200m was a sure thing then it seems odd that he was the preferred buyer.

In what parallel universe is SMS worth £100m? **** me!

Replacement value of SMS has got to be more than £100m in 2018 money. An asset that can be borrowed against.

Replacement value of SMS has got to be more than £100m in 2018 money. An asset that can be borrowed against.

Replacement cost isn't the same as worth. My car would cost £30k to replace with new. It would sell for about £14k. It's worth £14k.

Initially that makes sense but see it from Gao's view.

 

He borrows £200m. He then has control of assets which have circa £200m of player assets, a stadium worth circa £100m and (if relegated) payments of £90m. So the first move is to get £50m in on the player assets. He only needs to cash in £100m for the players and trouser the parachute payments and then sell the Club for circa £50m and then fund a few million for the interest payments and he has had a positive gain in his net worth without spending a penny of his own money.

Whilst simultaneously getting his money out of China and into a foreign currency. It used to be standard practice for rich Chinese businessmen to move all their money to overseas accounts as they are all petrified that the government is going to take it away. Over the past couple of years the government has really clamped down on sending money out of the country and now each person can only legally send US$50,000 a year out of China. These guys now have to be creative and this looks like the classic example. I can't imagine Gao has any plans to spend a single penny of his own money on SFC again.

Whilst simultaneously getting his money out of China and into a foreign currency. It used to be standard practice for rich Chinese businessmen to move all their money to overseas accounts as they are all petrified that the government is going to take it away. Over the past couple of years the government has really clamped down on sending money out of the country and now each person can only legally send US$50,000 a year out of China. These guys now have to be creative and this looks like the classic example. I can't imagine Gao has any plans to spend a single penny of his own money on SFC again.

Indeed. This makes more sense. Maybe he's willing to spend £200m in China to make £100m in the UK.

At the end of the day his silence is pretty telling IMO.

Indeed. This makes more sense. Maybe he's willing to spend £200m in China to make £100m in the UK.

 

At the end of the day his silence is pretty telling IMO.

Give Ralph time to edit his 5 pledges will ya !

So she’s flogged the club to a Chinese criminal and we are supposed to respect her?

What are his criminal activities or convictions?

I couldn't care who she sold to if they were willing to pump their own £££ into the club - Unfortunately it looks like Goa or Kat isn't.

This is, after all, what football club owners usually do. Football clubs, like race horses, have always been

bought as a hobby by wealthy businessmen, traditionally local men made good, like Jack Walker, who wanted to put

something back into the local community, not people who wanted to make money out of them. Nowadays, it's a

sporting arena where international billionaires compete against each other but football clubs have always been

rich men's playthings and the wealthier the owner, the more the fans have benefitted.

It's not just the likes of Man City and Chelsea. You only have to look at neighbours, Brighton and Bournemouth, to

see that. Brighton's owner has already spent 150 million out of his own pocket to build their new stadium and buy

players. Saints and Coventry are 2 of the few clubs where owners have wanted to make money for themselves out of

the club, and the quarter of a billion that Kat has made must mean she has made more money out of our club than

just about any other owner in football history.

The board's main task has been to make as much money as possible for Kat and ensure that she doesn't have to reinvest a single penny - the performance of the football team is just a secondary issue - and that's why we are still stuck with Les Reed.

What are his criminal activities or convictions?

https://www.90min.com/posts/4925088-premier-league-block-200m-southampton-takeover-amid-sensational-bribery-allegations

Her decision to sell to a shady Chinese spiv is looking more and more like a very shrewd business decision by her.

She could have rolled her sleeves up and spent months and months rebuilding the clubs directors / management team at the end of last season, that would have substantially eaten into her own personal time or any other projects she may have, or to sell at a peak price.

This is, after all, what football club owners usually do. Football clubs, like race horses, have always been

 

bought as a hobby by wealthy businessmen, traditionally local men made good, like Jack Walker, who wanted to put

 

something back into the local community, not people who wanted to make money out of them. Nowadays, it's a

 

sporting arena where international billionaires compete against each other but football clubs have always been

 

rich men's playthings and the wealthier the owner, the more the fans have benefitted.

 

It's not just the likes of Man City and Chelsea. You only have to look at neighbours, Brighton and Bournemouth, to

 

see that. Brighton's owner has already spent 150 million out of his own pocket to build their new stadium and buy

 

players. Saints and Coventry are 2 of the few clubs where owners have wanted to make money for themselves out of

 

the club, and the quarter of a billion that Kat has made must mean she has made more money out of our club than

 

just about any other owner in football history.

 

The board's main task has been to make as much money as possible for Kat and ensure that she doesn't have to reinvest a single penny - the performance of the football team is just a secondary issue - and that's why we are still stuck with Les Reed.

I also think that limited our ambition to 'staying in the premier league'. Meaning that 17th would do, we downsized the quality of the team. We took a policy of sailing 'close to the wind' and it can work and look spectacular but it can also be risky. We have truly capsized this season.

Kat has invested a little of her inheritance and got back a massive return, I and all of us have invested a lot more, eg our lives. We have bought the tacky mugs and retro shirts etc, paid to get in whatever the league we are in, funded the club in the bad days. Whilst I have the utmost respect for ML I have none for his daughter