Our greatest strength is our biggest weakness

Some thoughts. Please don't think this post is in any way 'racist' - it is just an opinion.

 

As supporters of other clubs in our situation have said, at the very least I expect that relegation will bring change.

 

The question is where the change will be - playing squad for sure, manager possibly, board/chairman unlikely.

 

Avoiding the drop I fear will, like Sunderland, lead to club hierarchy patting themselves on the back rather taking a long hard look at the state we're in.

 

I've said it numerous times and I'll say it again. Our greatest strength is our greatest weakness.

 

Our overseas recruiting was unrivaled under Paul Mitchell, regardless of in what regard our academy is held, for the last five years the club have looked to bring in cheaper gems from other leagues - Mane, Van Dijk, Pelle, Schneiderlin (he was before), Lemina, etc.

 

Players like these enable us to over achieve and have been the reason for our success in recent years. However, such overseas talents do nothing but bring instability in the long term.

 

I had a conversation last night with a friend where I said I would genuinely prefer the core of our playing squad to be local journeymen rather than 2-3 gems who stop off at Saints on their way to big clubs.

 

Right now, by and large those players are not performing. They are inherently more likely to move elsewhere, having already made a big move to Saints in the first place.

 

After last game I read several places on here that people wanted reliability back in the squad. Yoshida, Davis, JWP, McCarthy, Austin et al are hardly likely to move on. Perhaps they will never achieve the greatness of the likes of Mane, but they will stick around. I'd far rather have Gallagher than Carillo. Why did we buy him?

 

I have a strong desire to see us spend this summer and trawl through another 3-4 players from overseas with the hope they work out. At the same time, I'm fed up of it.

 

We're not playing football manager.

 

Regardless of who manages our team next season, in the championship or not, I would far rather have stability and consistency by looking inwardly to our academy and English players. Previous purchases from other Premier League clubs have been successful - Bertrand, Romeu, McCarthy, Clyne, etc.

 

Why couldn't we have taken Jonjo Shelvey from Swansea? How were Hojbjerg, Romeu, Lemina, Clasie any better? And how much more are those players likely to make a move away.

 

I hope to that end that the new manager, if he stays, will have the confidence to take with him those journeymen who have been foundational to his other teams, along with giving academy players much more of a chance.

I'll read this thread later but if you have to tell someone, at the beginning of your post that what you're saying isn't racist, it's probably racist.

There is nothing 'racist' in this post whatsoever

Like you said, it's just an opinion.

This post makes no sense....... bottom line is with a few exceptions players will move to a club that offers them the best chance of success and more importantly the most money. It makes no difference if the players are English or from abroad........ Lambert, Lallana, Clyne, Shaw, Chambers, Oxlade chamberlain are an example of English players who have moved on in the last few years

“Why couldn't we have taken Jonjo Shelvey from Swansea? How were Hojbjerg, Romeu, Lemina, Clasie any better? And how much more are those players likely to make a move away.”

 

Simple... cost.

Agree with the gist of your argument but there are a few contradictions in this:

 

Some thoughts. Please don't think this post is in any way 'racist' - it is just an opinion.

 

As supporters of other clubs in our situation have said, at the very least I expect that relegation will bring change.

 

The question is where the change will be - playing squad for sure, manager possibly, board/chairman unlikely.

 

Avoiding the drop I fear will, like Sunderland, lead to club hierarchy patting themselves on the back rather taking a long hard look at the state we're in.

 

I've said it numerous times and I'll say it again. Our greatest strength is our greatest weakness.

 

Our overseas recruiting was unrivaled under Paul Mitchell, regardless of in what regard our academy is held, for the last five years the club have looked to bring in cheaper gems from other leagues - Mane, Van Dijk, Pelle, Schneiderlin (he was before), Lemina, etc.

 

Players like these enable us to over achieve and have been the reason for our success in recent years. However, such overseas talents do nothing but bring instability in the long term.

 

I had a conversation last night with a friend where I said I would genuinely prefer the core of our playing squad to be local journeymen rather than 2-3 gems who stop off at Saints on their way to big clubs.

 

Right now, by and large those players are not performing. They are inherently more likely to move elsewhere, having already made a big move to Saints in the first place.

 

After last game I read several places on here that people wanted reliability back in the squad. Yoshida, Davis, JWP, McCarthy, Austin et al are hardly likely to move on. Perhaps they will never achieve the greatness of the likes of Mane, but they will stick around. I'd far rather have Gallagher than Carillo. Why did we buy him?

 

I have a strong desire to see us spend this summer and trawl through another 3-4 players from overseas with the hope they work out. At the same time, I'm fed up of it.

 

We're not playing football manager.

 

Regardless of who manages our team next season, in the championship or not, I would far rather have stability and consistency by looking inwardly to our academy and English players. Previous purchases from other Premier League clubs have been successful - Bertrand, Romeu, McCarthy, Clyne, etc.

 

Why couldn't we have taken Jonjo Shelvey from Swansea? How were Hojbjerg, Romeu, Lemina, Clasie any better? And how much more are those players likely to make a move away.

 

I hope to that end that the new manager, if he stays, will have the confidence to take with him those journeymen who have been foundational to his other teams, along with giving academy players much more of a chance.

 

I think we bought a few duds under Mitchell as well didn't we ? Mayuka might pre-date him, but Forren springs to mind.

 

I don't think you can include Schneiderlin in the list of 'journeymen' who were here as a stepping stone having been with Saints for a number of seasons coming through the divisions over a 6-7 year spell. Yoshida has also been here 6 seasons.

 

I don't mind the 2-3 gems even if short term, and this is workable. When it falls down is when the majority of the team are all clearly transitory signings and not near the standard.

 

As for the Academy - seems to have dried up.

 

Carillo - yes well, difficult to defend that signing, buffoonery at it's finest.

 

Remember Sir John Hall as Chairman of Newcastle wanted to create a team that was predominantly Geordie, and couldn't.

IMO we haven't looked at talent from the lower leagues, especially the Championship that much, Clyne was very successful, but aside from that we seemed to have ignored this market looking more for the foreign player.

 

But simply our recruitment has been consistently poor over the last 2 years both players and manager and this has caught up with us. The buck sits with Reed and Wilson.

IMO we haven't looked at talent from the lower leagues, especially the Championship that much, Clyne was very successful, but aside from that we seemed to have ignored this market looking more for the foreign player.

 

But simply our recruitment has been consistently poor over the last 2 years both players and manager and this has caught up with us. The buck sits with Reed and Wilson.

 

Agree. Maddison at Norwich and the few at Fulham spring to mind.

Agree. Maddison at Norwich and the few at Fulham spring to mind.

 

We were linked with Maddison before he left Coventry.

 

No doubt Les thought he would block Harrison Reed's development though.

I have to agree with the essence of what you're trying to say even if others are being deliberately picky about the way you've phrased it.

 

Any team sport is about getting the blend right. In the 70's we had older pros at the end of their careers blending their older heads and legs with young and hungry lads who were able to compensate on the pitch and the balance was right. These days we need to blend expensive big name signings with academy players and young foreign players hoping to make a name for themselves. In theory it should still work but somehow the balance has got out of kilter and when it started going wrong the inevitable manager changes seem to have made the problem worse.

 

Hopefully an experienced Premier League Manager will know how to put this right (if he's allowed)

To get some of the English talent we would have had to pay the English premium. Which we could only afford by horse trading with our continental success stories.

 

Catch 22.

I would say our biggest weakness is struggling to score and being easy to score against

 

If you’ve ever wondered what happens when a moveable force meets a resistable object watch a saints attack v defence training session

I would say our biggest weakness is struggling to score and being easy to score against

 

If you’ve ever wondered what happens when a moveable force meets a resistable object watch a saints attack v defence training session

 

I have to admit, Hughes keeps banging on about how good we look in training, I don’t think he’s realised that it’s because it’s 2 **** teams against each other.

 

At least the videos of our midfield smashing them into (a practically empty) net from 30yards have stopped.

To get some of the English talent we would have had to pay the English premium. Which we could only afford by horse trading with our continental success stories.

 

Catch 22.

 

Yes and no. We could have had Maguire in the summer instead of the awful Hoedt and we passed up Nathaniel Chalobah when he was available for £5m so we could have signed young English talent if we’d have wanted to but we went elsewhere.

Unfortunately I think our biggest weakness has been self inflicted. When we had Fonte and VVD we had arguable the best CB combo in the PL, now after letting them both go we have the worst.

Yes and no. We could have had Maguire in the summer instead of the awful Hoedt and we passed up Nathaniel Chalobah when he was available for £5m so we could have signed young English talent if we’d have wanted to but we went elsewhere.

 

I remember someone posting on here after the Hull match last season that Maguire didn't look anything special, and how much better Stephen was, especially bringing the ball out of defence.

 

I expect Reed was similarly deluded.

Players leave when they're good, not when they're foreign. The fact that the good ones are often foreign should tell you something.

Don't know if we need english players per se, though players with prem experience down the spine of the side would have made a big difference.

 

Instead we've gone to the other extreme: we've bought young players from foreign leagues who have limited experience -indeed many of them have fallen out of favour- but we've betted on their perceived pedigree. In his Q&A with London Saints, Krueger attributes our troubles at an Academy level to a similar tendency to stock pile 16- and 17- years who've been let go by the big clubs but then failed to make an impression with us.

Don't know if we need english players per se, though players with prem experience down the spine of the side would have made a big difference.

 

Instead we've gone to the other extreme: we've bought young players from foreign leagues who have limited experience -indeed many of them have fallen out of favour- but we've betted on their perceived pedigree. In his Q&A with London Saints, Krueger attributes our troubles at an Academy level to a similar tendency to stock pile 16- and 17- years who've been let go by the big clubs but then failed to make an impression with us.

It depends who is assessing who to take on. Its like on here there are some who you respect in their judgement and others who haven't a clue. So if we are getting players in by, poor judges of players abilities, that is where the problem lies.

That is why some managers are so good as they can see a player. Look at Clough, without Peter Taylor finding the players he was lost

It depends who is assessing who to take on. Its like on here there are some who you respect in their judgement and others who haven't a clue. So if we are getting players in by, poor judges of players abilities, that is where the problem lies.

That is why some managers are so good as they can see a player. Look at Clough, without Peter Taylor finding the players he was lost

 

True though there is also wisdom in the crowd. At some point you have to accept there are good reasons why a player has been released or fallen out of favour.

True though there is also wisdom in the crowd. At some point you have to accept there are good reasons why a player has been released or fallen out of favour.

yep, I like the thought of picking up the big clubs cast off, as they really do let go gems. Even e have in the past. You just have to find the right people to make the choice

True though there is also wisdom in the crowd. At some point you have to accept there are good reasons why a player has been released or fallen out of favour.

 

Bang on...

Bang on...

 

Not quite the same is it. He initially went on loan to a German club where he got regular football and proved himself before City took the plunge. Never mind he was playing first team football in Belgium at a high level at such a young age.

Edited 8 April, 2018 by shurlock

When Celtic won the European cup in 1967 every player was born within 12 miles of Glasgow city centre !

Those were the days, eh ?

Bang on...

 

When City signed KDB he'd just played 51 games the previous season for Wolfsburg with 16 goals and 23 assists, add on the 7 goals and 5 assists for Belgium that season.

It's night and day between him and all our leftover signings, none of which were regular starters when we signed them let alone posting numbers like that.