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Now it’s over, how bad was Pellegrino really


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Worst Saints manager in my time and probably in premiership history. On top of everything already mentioned he worried about winning. Now I've seen some poor managers at Saints but I've never ever known a manager that fretted about winning, wanting to win is what the job is, or was until we got Pellegrino.

 

However even more blame needs to be laid at Reed's feet, he appointed him and kept him until it was almost too late. Not taking anything away from Sparky who did a top job and turned us around in the nick of time but let's be honest - we got lucky with Swansea's nose dive and the board got a massive let off.

 

Southampton’s new manager, highly regarded for his man-management and tactical nous, obsesses about the damage victory can inflict on players’ hunger

 

https://www.theguardian.com/football/blog/2017/jun/24/mauricio-pellegrino-complete-coach-southampton-manager

 

:spaz:

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This season was a perfect **** storm

 

Recruiting a very Poor manager

Squad with to many average players

Complacency at board level

Compounded by the VVD saga and a change of owners.

 

Hopefully this was a big kick in the nuts wake up call very everyone at the club

 

Massive summer ahead if we don't want to through this ****e again next season.

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This season was a perfect **** storm

 

Recruiting a very Poor manager

Squad with to many average players

Complacency at board level

Compounded by the VVD saga and a change of owners.

 

Hopefully this was a big kick in the nuts wake up call very everyone at the club

 

Massive summer ahead if we don't want to through this ****e again next season.

 

Yep. And we need an early start.

 

I am hoping that Gao gets rid of Reed and Krueger this week.

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This season was a perfect **** storm

 

Recruiting a very Poor manager on the back of one who had destroyed squad cohesion and morale in the weeks post-League Cup Final 2017

Squad with to many average players

Complacency at board level

Compounded by the VVD saga which he was completely unable to handle and which destroyed his credibility as the bloke in charge and a change of owners.

 

Hopefully this was a big kick in the nuts wake up call very everyone at the club

 

Massive summer ahead if we don't want to through this ****e again next season.

 

Added a few comments to the above...

 

The interesting question (for me) is which players in yesterdays match-day squad will vacate (either voluntarily or involuntarily) their spots before August, to allow new players to be injected, who will provide the step-up difference from last season?

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I was one of the last to want Mope out (but even I was on that band wagon long before LR and RK), but the simple truth is that Puel and MoPey were both shocking appointments that killed the team, our identity, our confidence, and our ability to actually attack.

 

I binned off my season ticket after Puel given the direction the club was going with boring, blunt and negative football. I may reconsider it depending on how this summer goes.

 

The one negative of getting relegated is that this board may survive, and god forbid, carry on with the same strategies.

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It was a terrible season, under a terrible manager, recruited by terrible directors who were children left alone in the sweet shop.

 

Pellegrino was a total shock, I just can't understand how a manager of any sort could be so unbelievably incompetent. We could have employed a manager from the top of the Vanarama National who'd have been easily as good, and potentially better in keeping the players fitness levels up and understanding the value of a well timed sub.

 

It was a very lucky escape, but what I take from this season is that Les Reed has now been found out, for the sacking of Puel + recruitment of Pellegrino + his arrogance in not accepting he was wrong.

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Pellegrino was asked to do a job way above his capability. He had no clue as to the demands of the premier league, and did not learn as he went along either. Not a motivator, not a tactician, not a clue.

 

In saying that, I don't blame him I blame Les for appointing him in the first place and keeping him in post 5 months longer than he should have done.

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It was a terrible season, under a terrible manager, recruited by terrible directors who were children left alone in the sweet shop.

 

Pellegrino was a total shock, I just can't understand how a manager of any sort could be so unbelievably incompetent. We could have employed a manager from the top of the Vanarama National who'd have been easily as good, and potentially better in keeping the players fitness levels up and understanding the value of a well timed sub.

 

It was a very lucky escape, but what I take from this season is that Les Reed has now been found out, for the sacking of Puel + recruitment of Pellegrino + his arrogance in not accepting he was wrong.

Plus two January transfer window debacles.
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Plus two January transfer window debacles.

 

...because they wanted to hang on in the PL by spending as little money as possible so Gao's loan can be paid off.

 

I suspect the Black Box has fallen into disuse, and when they realised they actually needed someone who could score (we did create a reasonable amount of chances) they just panicked into buying the only available striker they could find. They thought that would just scrape us through and when they realised Carillo wasn't going to do it, they had no other option than to pay off MP and get in the only person available who just might turn around the side's morale and determination.

 

We will see if Gao himself realises that serious money must be spent on players, as the oft-touted Academy has really produced nothing of note for some time. My guess is that as much PL/TV money as possible will be used to finance the loan; it will be interesting to see if he has enough financial flexibility for the squad to be sufficiently strengthened, but I fear that just survival in future is going to be just too expensive.

 

The sale of the club to Gao still stinks as far as I am concerned and we have absolutely nothing to thank KL for.

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... and when they realised they actually needed someone who could score (we did create a reasonable amount of chances) they just panicked into buying the only available striker they could find.

 

The only available striker? Pull the other one :lol:

 

This has been debated to death on here, we had money and so many options. Pellegrino and Reed both got us into a very dark place, had a circle jerk, and panic bought.

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One thing no one seems to have mentioned is training and fitness. The players mentioned it when Hughes took over. A manager/coach needs players to be as least as fit as the opponents.

 

Agreed, but... why did Stoke always start the season so badly under Hughes?

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I'm torn

 

+ We did create chances (early on at least)

+ We did have bad luck

+ He did seem like a nice chap; showed a quiet dignity and signed autographs when hounded by the fans by the coach at Newcastle away

 

? The team/morale he inherited

 

- Apparent lack of charisma

- Sleep walking mentality; I understand he couldn't show all out panic about relegation but some acknowledgment of concern would've been reassuring

- Hanging on for a payoff; I understand him doing this but I'd imagine he would have gone sooner if he'd been more reasonable on the payoff compromise

 

The "worst manager ever" comments are probably a lot to do with the recency effect imo - similar happens with those who say "that was the worst I've ever seen Saints play" after every poor performance (also imo)

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Needed an experienced manager to sort out the boring Puel team and the rot that had set in. Got Pellegrino. Completely wrong for the job, and while that's not his fault, he seemed unwilling to change. I could see we were cruising towards relegation in early November when the insurance bet went on, and while I back every manager initially whether they're the appointment I want to see or not, he was the manager I've lost faith in quickest.

 

Bang out of his depth at this level and should have gone a lot earlier. To bring in Carrillo for a record signing fee was foolishness, and I often wonder if a more experienced manager would have pushed harder for more January signings, especially defensively. It's like a Harvester grill chef getting a job at a Michelin star restaurant, he knows how to cook food, and some of it tastes nice, but he's out of his depth and bookings will suffer.

 

Still, he's gone, we survived thanks to Hughes. I either hope Reed now sods off or massively and very quickly learns the error of his ways. The rebuilding starts now. No more risky appointments just because we hope they are the next Pochettino, and no more risky panic signings.

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I disagree. With the resources available I can't remember a worse manager. I'm not sure a manager has ever gone for such a long time without winning and not been fired.

I'm torn

 

+ We did create chances (early on at least)

+ We did have bad luck

+ He did seem like a nice chap; showed a quiet dignity and signed autographs when hounded by the fans by the coach at Newcastle away

 

? The team/morale he inherited

 

- Apparent lack of charisma

- Sleep walking mentality; I understand he couldn't show all out panic about relegation but some acknowledgment of concern would've been reassuring

- Hanging on for a payoff; I understand him doing this but I'd imagine he would have gone sooner if he'd been more reasonable on the payoff compromise

 

The "worst manager ever" comments are probably a lot to do with the recency effect imo - similar happens with those who say "that was the worst I've ever seen Saints play" after every poor performance (also imo)

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I'm torn

 

+ We did create chances (early on at least)

+ We did have bad luck

+ He did seem like a nice chap; showed a quiet dignity and signed autographs when hounded by the fans by the coach at Newcastle away

 

? The team/morale he inherited

 

- Apparent lack of charisma

- Sleep walking mentality; I understand he couldn't show all out panic about relegation but some acknowledgment of concern would've been reassuring

- Hanging on for a payoff; I understand him doing this but I'd imagine he would have gone sooner if he'd been more reasonable on the payoff compromise

 

The "worst manager ever" comments are probably a lot to do with the recency effect imo - similar happens with those who say "that was the worst I've ever seen Saints play" after every poor performance (also imo)

 

I'm in no doubt whatsoever that he's the worst manager we've ever had. I'm in almost no doubt whatsoever that he's the worst manager the Premier League has ever seen. Nothing about timescales, he didn't try to win football matches, that is sensational for a Premier League manager.

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I'm in no doubt whatsoever that he's the worst manager we've ever had. I'm in almost no doubt whatsoever that he's the worst manager the Premier League has ever seen. Nothing about timescales, he didn't try to win football matches, that is sensational for a Premier League manager.

 

Yes, and the Billy Davies argument is invalid as Derby should never have been promoted in the first place, especially if the ref had dealt with them in the first play off leg SF. Terrible negative football, no intensity, training sounded like it was similar, press conferences were terrible although not quite as bad as Puel on that front, bizarre subs. He looked shot away from the whole experience by November and for his own sake should have been relieved of his duties then. Reckless to have retained him during, what on earth were Bunsen and Beaker thinking?

 

I loathed Ian Branfoot's style of football but he did win six on the spin (IIRC) at one point and we had games like Villa at home when Villa were chasing the title, and Norwich 3-0. Didn't think if my lifetime we'd ever see worse than Branfoot so well done Les for making the bleakest and impossible scenario come about, pity for them that pesky Hughes came and spoiled it all.

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I disagree. With the resources available I can't remember a worse manager. I'm not sure a manager has ever gone for such a long time without winning and not been fired.

 

1988/89 - we went 23 games without a win under Chris Nicholl, who kept his job until the summer of 1991.

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He inherited a right mess that Puel left behind and wasn't the right man to put things right.

 

Aaaaaaaaaaaaaabsolute garbage. Puel with this squad would have had us in the top half. Pellegrino took a mainly attacking team which had too many matches that was crap at finishing and turned it into a random bunch of individuals who didn't even know they were meant to be trying to score goals on the rare occasions they played matches.

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I would love to know why he didn't deliver the attacking football we were promised when he was recruited. Something very very odd there. Answering that one would give a far better insight into the total failure that defined his time here. Should have been pushed way earlier - after Leicester at Home.

 

He tried Ward-Prowse up front pre-season and once during the League, it didn't work, that was every idea he had, I think.

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Worst Saints manager in my time and probably in premiership history.

 

Wasn't even the worst Premier League manager this season. Palace somehow lost 8 straight matches without scoring a goal and still finished 11th just because they were no longer being managed by Frank de Boer (though admittedly Hodgson oversaw the last 3 of those 8 ).

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1988/89 - we went 23 games without a win under Chris Nicholl, who kept his job until the summer of 1991.

 

They were right to keep him on, it was a different time then, we played good football and you always felt it would turn around. Despite the poor form I don't remember many fans wanting Nicholl sacked. The following season was one of the best attacking teams I've ever seen. 4-2-4 at times, Le Tissier, Rideout, shearer and Wallace up front running rings round the the opposition. We scored 3 or more goals on numerous occasions. It was the season after when fans started to turn on him after we failed to live up to the 89/90 season heights. Then we hired Branfoot, be careful what you wish for.

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Wasn't even the worst Premier League manager this season. Palace somehow lost 8 straight matches without scoring a goal and still finished 11th just because they were no longer being managed by Frank de Boer (though admittedly Hodgson oversaw the last 3 of those 8 ).

 

You can’t rate De Boer for only 4 or 5 games.

 

It’s like saying Darren Moore is one of the best managers in the world.

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Needed an experienced manager to sort out the boring Puel team and the rot that had set in. Got Pellegrino. Completely wrong for the job, and while that's not his fault, he seemed unwilling to change. I could see we were cruising towards relegation in early November when the insurance bet went on, and while I back every manager initially whether they're the appointment I want to see or not, he was the manager I've lost faith in quickest.

 

Bang out of his depth at this level and should have gone a lot earlier. To bring in Carrillo for a record signing fee was foolishness, and I often wonder if a more experienced manager would have pushed harder for more January signings, especially defensively. It's like a Harvester grill chef getting a job at a Michelin star restaurant, he knows how to cook food, and some of it tastes nice, but he's out of his depth and bookings will suffer.

 

Still, he's gone, we survived thanks to Hughes. I either hope Reed now sods off or massively and very quickly learns the error of his ways. The rebuilding starts now. No more risky appointments just because we hope they are the next Pochettino, and no more risky panic signings.

 

Did you cash out?

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He tried Ward-Prowse up front pre-season and once during the League, it didn't work, that was every idea he had, I think.

 

He'd have tried Forster up front if we'd have given him time. Worst manager in history

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How bad was he?

 

Almost had the worst Saints win record of any permanant Manager in a League with 16.67%.

 

But then there is Wigley with 7%.

 

Wigley at least won the important one.

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Both Puel and Pellegrino were pathetic managers. Both had misinterpreted what football was about. Guardiola coached teams to pass sideways and backwards with however multiple goalscorers, maximum width and searing pace. Trying to pass the ball around 600 times a match with one forward and a collection of non scoring players lacking pace was stupidity that paid at least a couple of million a year.

 

Both Puel and Pellegrino should have ****ed out of the place by the end of August. The way we played from the start of both seasons was rubbish and resulted in 46 and 36 points. I went to the Swansea game expecting exciting, pressing attacking football, what I got was backwards and sideways obsessive safety first possession rubbish. After the previous dross as far as I was concerned Pellegrino was more of the same. That it took 29 more matches to sack the **** reflects badly on the knowledge of the management because we were going down from August playing the stupidity we were playing.

 

Paying £19.2m for Carillo on his recommendation when all the news coming out of Monaco was that they couldn't give him away pretty much shows his stupidity and worse the stupidity of Reed, Ross and Krueger.

Edited by derry
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Did you cash out?

 

Nope, but that's the point of an insurance bet - you want to lose it. I'm far happier seeing Saints survive than I would have been with the profit, (even with a new baby arriving in a couple of weeks), and I'm not a hardcore gambler - only bet what I can afford.

 

Hughes definitely did a good job when he came in, but it was a large part due to the crud of the teams around us that we survived. If Stoke or Swansea had picked up a bit, or WBA's renaissance started earlier, then Pellegrino would have royally screwed us and we would have gone down. It was a very poor league the season just gone - we can't rely on that happening next season which is why the safe hands of Hughes would be the best choice for the time being. IF he's suffering come Christmas, then we can say we're wrong and look to appoint someone else. But I personally think he'll be better than Pellegrino and after last season, I'll take that.

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How bad was he?

 

Almost had the worst Saints win record of any permanant Manager in a League with 16.67%.

 

But then there is Wigley with 7%.

 

Not sure about that percentage. I've got him down as having a 60% win ratio, which is pretty good. The problem is we had too many 1-1 or 0-0 wins.

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I have supported Saints for over sixty years and I honestly thought Branfoot was awful and have been proven wrong.Pillockgrino is the worst Manager we have employed in all my time as a Saint.Totally inept and way out of his depth.Some of his substitutions were impossible to comprehend.So glad he was shown the door.Reed et al have to accept responsibility for the fiasco.

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I have supported Saints for over sixty years and I honestly thought Branfoot was awful and have been proven wrong.Pillockgrino is the worst Manager we have employed in all my time as a Saint.Totally inept and way out of his depth.Some of his substitutions were impossible to comprehend.So glad he was shown the door.Reed et al have to accept responsibility for the fiasco.

 

Branfoot had a tactic, a **** tactic but it least it was a tactic. The clown was just ****ing crap and he was the worst Coach/ Manager in my 40 odd seasons of supporting Saints.

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