Jump to content

Lower League Player Options V Players From Abroad


Saint Billy
 Share

Recommended Posts

Having watched a few lower league games on the box there appears to be a bit of talent here and there.

 

As purchasing players from the continent has proved a bit hit and miss in the past with one big obstacle being the inability to come to terms with the British game and also not being able to settle in the UK, would it be not be less of a gamble to pluck up talent from our own leagues?.

 

I know that this goes on already but most get purchased by Championship clubs and then a few make the leap to premiership, but what about being a bit savvy and seriously look at a few who show potential. We did it when we were in League 1 and the likes of Lambert came with us to the Premiership.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

We just need to play the hierarchy game.

 

Liverpool take from us as at will as they are bigger so we need to take the best from teams below us in the hierarchy.

 

Prefer that than trying to reform players that joined clubs above us in hierarchy and have failed

 

Some of our best signing (Mane, VVD, Big Vic) have come from clubs below us in the football hierarchy.

 

Get players on the way to top, stop with the 2nd chance type signings

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Having watched a few lower league games on the box there appears to be a bit of talent here and there.

 

As purchasing players from the continent has proved a bit hit and miss in the past with one big obstacle being the inability to come to terms with the British game and also not being able to settle in the UK, would it be not be less of a gamble to pluck up talent from our own leagues?.

 

I know that this goes on already but most get purchased by Championship clubs and then a few make the leap to premiership, but what about being a bit savvy and seriously look at a few who show potential. We did it when we were in League 1 and the likes of Lambert came with us to the Premiership.

 

Lambert was hardly being savy, he was the leagues top scorer when we signed him and was easily good enough to play in the Championship.

 

It's all well and good saying sign the best talent from the lower leagues but Huddersfield and Brighton had a lot of it 2 seasons ago and they've been mediocre at best in the Premier League. We had the Championships 2 best strikers in Lambert and J Rod, plus the best midfielder in Lallana, 2 of the best defenders in Hooiveld and Fonte, plus Kelvin from the Championship team of the year. Despite all of that we'd have gone down without signing Boruc, Davis, Gaston and Yoshida.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Whoever we’re signing should be scouted competently, whether it be in this country or another, and although that’s not the be all and end all, it does imply it doesn’t matter whether a player isn’t signed from home or abroad. I suppose you could say lower league players have experience of the English game/system and are perhaps less likely to get homesick, but predominantly if a player is good enough for us, it doesn’t matter where we get them from.

 

However then there is the question of expense. Foreign signings can be cheaper, but there’s no denying signing Ryan Fredericks from Fulham, a very good, nippy right back, on a free transfer this summer, would be a cracking bit of business. Is Gibson worth the rumoured £20million though? I’m not so sure.

 

One player who has stuck out for me when watching Leeds last season (and Oxford before that) is Kemal Roofe. Decent midfield player and an eye for goal. I also wonder if we’ll be back in for Reid, whom we were linked with from Bristol City in January before blowing our load on Carrillo. There are decent players down there, you just have to hope you find a Dele Alli.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

The problem we’ve had with players from abroad recently is that we’ve gone from signing players who were the best in their leagues in their positions (Tadic, Pelle, Mane) to players who are pretty average, or not even first choice (Hoedt, Carrillo).

 

There are a few exceptions but we seem to have started trying to be too clever with it all.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Whoever we’re signing should be scouted competently, whether it be in this country or another, and although that’s not the be all and end all, it does imply it doesn’t matter whether a player isn’t signed from home or abroad. I suppose you could say lower league players have experience of the English game/system and are perhaps less likely to get homesick, but predominantly if a player is good enough for us, it doesn’t matter where we get them from.

 

However then there is the question of expense. Foreign signings can be cheaper, but there’s no denying signing Ryan Fredericks from Fulham, a very good, nippy right back, on a free transfer this summer, would be a cracking bit of business. Is Gibson worth the rumoured £20million though? I’m not so sure.

 

One player who has stuck out for me when watching Leeds last season (and Oxford before that) is Kemal Roofe. Decent midfield player and an eye for goal. I also wonder if we’ll be back in for Reid, whom we were linked with from Bristol City in January before blowing our load on Carrillo. There are decent players down there, you just have to hope you find a Dele Alli.

 

Reid and Fredericks yes (particularly as Reid only has 1 year left on his contract) but I suspect 5-10 prem clubs will be in for them. Not sure Roofe is good enough to be honest.

 

Agree about quality, carillo is a mental signing. I think Hoedt needs a coach to have a word with him, there is a good player in there.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

There’s no denying signing Ryan Fredericks from Fulham, a very good, nippy right back, on a free transfer this summer, would be a cracking bit of business.... There are decent players down there, you just have to hope you find a Dele Alli.

 

Fredericks would be an excellent signing.

 

Not exactly the same type of player, but James Maddison could be a Dele Alli-type success story in the prem.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

The problem we’ve had with players from abroad recently is that we’ve gone from signing players who were the best in their leagues in their positions (Tadic, Pelle, Mane) to players who are pretty average, or not even first choice (Hoedt, Carrillo).

 

There are a few exceptions but we seem to have started trying to be too clever with it all.

 

I don't really understand your logic we bought players from Napoli Juventus Lazio Monaco and Bayern Munich top European Clubs who must have been pretty good to play for these clubs and nearly all are internationals.

 

I cannot remember recruiting a really good regular first team player first team player from the PL recently although both Austin and Long may have been but both Bertrand and Romeu were bit players at Chelsea

Link to comment
Share on other sites

We just need to play the hierarchy game.

 

Some of our best signing (Mane, VVD, Big Vic) have come from clubs below us in the football hierarchy.

 

I support the idea of playing the hierarchy game, but we are not above Glasgow Celtic in football hierarchy. We simply pay more than them, whilst offering a shop window in the most expensive football league in the world.

 

So, we don't need to focus on hierarchy, we need to focus on players who can significantly increase their salary by coming here. It doesn't matter if they play for Celtic, Lyon, Lazio or Chelsea reserves.

 

But we need to make certain that they are improving what we already have, which hasn't always been the case recently.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

I don't really understand your logic we bought players from Napoli Juventus Lazio Monaco and Bayern Munich top European Clubs who must have been pretty good to play for these clubs and nearly all are internationals.

 

I cannot remember recruiting a really good regular first team player first team player from the PL recently although both Austin and Long may have been but both Bertrand and Romeu were bit players at Chelsea

 

Carrillo just 15 goals in 65 league appearances for Monaco

Højbjerg- 17 league appearances for Bayern Munich

Lemina - 29 league appearances for Juve.

Gabbiadini- 15 goals in 56 league appearances for Napoli (though admittedly not and our and out striker)

 

Vs

 

Pelle- 50 goals in 57 league appearances for Feyenoord

Mane- 31 goals in 63 league appearances for Salzburg

Tadic- 16 goals and 14 assists in his last season for FC Twente.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Obviously both, there are some good players in the lower league worth going for, I mean we got Clyne, Spurs got Bale and Ali, so there are potential top level players there to be had.

 

But I wouldn't give up on the European market just because we've had a few duds.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

I'd personally like to see us go back to signing players from 'lesser leagues', who are already stand out at that level. Wanyama, VVD, Mane, Pelle, Tadic etc.

 

With our recent signings of Hoedt, Hojbjerg, Lemina, Gabbinadini etc - whilst good pedregree and coming from top sized clubs, they've not been regulars there and there's a reason for that.

 

This is why getting someone like Quincy would be a good start in getting back to that approach, he's a standout player in a lesser league who will see us as a stepping stone.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

I'd personally like to see us go back to signing players from 'lesser leagues', who are already stand out at that level. Wanyama, VVD, Mane, Pelle, Tadic etc.

 

With our recent signings of Hoedt, Hojbjerg, Lemina, Gabbinadini etc - whilst good pedregree and coming from top sized clubs, they've not been regulars there and there's a reason for that.

 

 

If Lemina was playing for Celtic , he'd be playing every week. Gabbi would score 30 goals a season in Scotland.

 

Clyne isn't liverpools first choice right back, but you'd rather we signed Patrick Thistle's because he's playing every game and is outstanding at that level.

 

 

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Link to comment
Share on other sites

As much as I like seeing Saints signing players from the Championship (Rodriguez, Clyne etc), with how international the game has become, surely it's easier to judge how a player will adapt to the Premier League playing in say the Bundesliga, or in the Europa League if in a smaller league, than in the Championship or League One?

Link to comment
Share on other sites

If Lemina was playing for Celtic , he'd be playing every week. Gabbi would score 30 goals a season in Scotland.

 

Clyne isn't liverpools first choice right back, but you'd rather we signed Patrick Thistle's because he's playing every game and is outstanding at that level.

 

 

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

 

Not to mention that Lemina, Gabbi (and to an extent Hoedt) were only in the reserves of larger clubs because they'd already stood out in smaller clubs and lesser leagues. What's being discussed in this thread isn't a strategy - it would just be an arbitrary filter on our recruitment with no predictive value.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Not to mention that Lemina, Gabbi (and to an extent Hoedt) were only in the reserves of larger clubs because they'd already stood out in smaller clubs and lesser leagues. What's being discussed in this thread isn't a strategy - it would just be an arbitrary filter on our recruitment with no predictive value.

 

"Stood out" is wrong.

 

Lemina was a bench warmer his entire career and Juve only paid £8m for him in the same year we paid £10.5m for Clasie and sold Schneiderlin for £25m. I doubt he was signed to be 1st choice.

Gabbiadini has never scored more than 8 league goals in a season. Austin broke double figures in 10 of his 11 seasons before joining us (had a dry 2007/08 as an 18 year old). He's 2 years older than Gabbi with 243 career goals to Gabbi's 69.

Hoedt was picked up by Lazio on a free transfer on €1.25m/year. Can't have been much demand for him given that salary and no transfer fee required so I strongly doubt he stood out.

 

None of them stood out at all. Nowhere close to the likes of Wanyama, VVD, Mane, Tadic that had standout seasons when we picked them up.

 

Just because they played for big clubs, it doesn't mean they were at that level. The drop from 1st team regular to reserve can be big. Think Jack Cork vs Wanyama/Schneiderlin. Yoshida vs Fonte/VVD. Do you think those 2 players should've been hotly fought over after we finished 6th in the league? Or would you say Cork/Yoshida are reasonable PL players but not quite at the level of a 6th placed club?

Edited by Ultimatt
Euros to Pounds
Link to comment
Share on other sites

"Stood out" is wrong.

 

Lemina was a bench warmer his entire career and Juve only paid £8m for him in the same year we paid £10.5m for Clasie and sold Schneiderlin for £25m. I doubt he was signed to be 1st choice.

Gabbiadini has never scored more than 8 league goals in a season. Austin broke double figures in 10 of his 11 seasons before joining us (had a dry 2007/08 as an 18 year old). He's 2 years older than Gabbi with 243 career goals to Gabbi's 69.

Hoedt was picked up by Lazio on a free transfer on €1.25m/year. Can't have been much demand for him given that salary and no transfer fee required so I strongly doubt he stood out.

 

None of them stood out at all. Nowhere close to the likes of Wanyama, VVD, Mane, Tadic that had standout seasons when we picked them up.

 

Just because they played for big clubs, it doesn't mean they were at that level. The drop from 1st team regular to reserve can be big. Think Jack Cork vs Wanyama/Schneiderlin. Yoshida vs Fonte/VVD. Do you think those 2 players should've been hotly fought over after we finished 6th in the league? Or would you say Cork/Yoshida are reasonable PL players but not quite at the level of a 6th placed club?

 

Not exactly true about Lemina. He made league 23 appearances for Marseille the season before he went to Juve (as a 19/20 year old) and played around 60 minutes per game. Likewise the comparison between Gabbiadini and Austin's scoring records isn't exactly fair, as apart from a season on loan as a 17/18 year old Gabbi has only ever played at the top level. Unfortunately, we're unlikely to ever know how many goals he might have scored if he'd had a few seasons in the Wessex League to pad out his stats.

 

As I said originally, I don't buy either of these arbitrary ideas as an outright recruitment policy. You only have to look at the long line of Dutch top scorers who have failed to make an impact in the PL to see that 'standing out' statistically in that league is no real mark of quality. On the flip side, if you were looking at Mane's stats in the Austrian league, he never finished as top scorer or top in assists, so we're perhaps overblowing the extent to which he was regarded as the best player in that league at the time.

 

But to answer your specific question, I think both Lemina and Gabbi are significantly better players than either Cork or Yoshida. And while you're right that their profiles as players were different to the others you mentioned, I doubt we'd be in any better position if we'd bought the Scottish league's best midfield enforcer or picked up whoever was banging them in for Feyenoord instead.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Create an account or sign in to comment

You need to be a member in order to leave a comment

Create an account

Sign up for a new account in our community. It's easy!

Register a new account

Sign in

Already have an account? Sign in here.

Sign In Now
 Share

×
×
  • Create New...

Important Information

View Terms of service (Terms of Use) and Privacy Policy (Privacy Policy) and Forum Guidelines ({Guidelines})