Derby v Saints (Friendly) - Match Thread

For ****s sake, some of you lot are a soppy bunch of poncy ****s. It's only pre season.

I like Stephens, i think he is decent. And does a good enough job. Never realised i was insane until now

Stephens actually looks like a footballer, he's just not quite cut out to be a 'main man' CB. That said, he has plenty of other attributes - he could probably be quite a tidy DM.

Hoedt is just a mess, full stop. £16m. Lmao. Ross and Les, great stuff.

Funny how people are slating Stephens. It's a far cry from the praise that was heaped on him following a impressive performance against Liverpool.

The Telegraph said "The centre of Southampton's defence has been decimated with Jose Fonte sold and Van Dijk going, but Stephens has been a revelation and was part of an impressive collective defensive display against Liverpool."

ESPN said, "If Hansen watched his beloved Liverpool being dumped out of the EFL Cup by Southampton on Wednesday night -- robbing Jurgen Klopp of the chance to win his first trophy in English football -- his words "You can't win anything with kids" would have come back to haunt him again.

For Southampton's 1-0 victory, securing a 2-0 aggregate scoreline, was built on a rock solid defence, with academy graduate Jack Stephens very much at the heart of it.

This time last year it is unlikely anyone outside of Hampshire would have heard of Stephens, who is now looking forward to a big Wembley final before even making his full Premier League debut. In fact, when the team sheets were released a little over an hour before kick-off with injured captain and star player Virgil van Dijk absent, Liverpool fans were buoyant at their chances of overturning a first leg deficit to set up a likely capital showdown with Manchester United."

Then there's the winner he scored against Watford in the FA Cup and the equaliser he bagged against Brighton. Some fans have a very short memory. He's not a league 2 defender, FFS.

For ****s sake, some of you lot are a soppy bunch of poncy ****s. It's only pre season.

To be fair, they need these games to warm up the moaning, try different moaning strategies and identify scapegoats for the season. They can’t just jump straight into a high level of moaning without a good pre-season of regular moaning.

To be fair, they need these games to warm up the moaning, try different moaning strategies and identify scapegoats for the season. They can’t just jump straight into a high level of moaning without a good pre-season of regular moaning.

I haven’t read back through thread but guessing our transfers have been written off and we should’ve been more like.... ........who are showing ambition

I haven’t read back through thread but guessing our transfers have been written off and we should’ve been more like.... ........who are showing ambition

No mate. Just the lack of defensive abilities in Heodt and Stephens giving a big wake up call

A few of our top moaners are looking a bit jaded after the World Cup. Maybe a little break is needed and then ease back into the moaning over the first few games?

Bunch of wet tarts on here it's preseason who gives a duck......

Has anyone mentioned yet that we are sleepwalking towards relegation?

For ****s sake, some of you lot are a soppy bunch of poncy ****s. It's only pre season.

They are just upset that, after a big warning last season, the club is effectively relegated now.

Has anyone mentioned yet that we are sleepwalking towards relegation?

Probably. I noticed Dalek's got his prediction in already. But there's nothing original here, and some posters are as predictable as Ashley Young cutting in on his right foot. Best to leave it for a bit and enjoy the sun. I may be a bit worried about our central defence but not to the extent of lamenting too much on here.

Just got in to discover the result. I guess a 3-0 defeat is pretty depressing but I'm of the school where it's better to get this sort of result out of the system before the season begins. Easy pre-season wins against inferior opposition often hide weaknesses. I suspect Hughes will have learned a lot today.

3-3, 3-2, 0-3 - whatever work Hughes is doing on the defence is going decidedly Stoke-y.

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What were Stoke's pre-season results like last year?

The issue wasn't with their pre-season. The problems started when they lost some key players through injury. Most Stoke fans i've spoken to have said that the problems weren't Hughes' fault and that he should have been given more time. I've not spoken to one who thinks they would have gone down had he stayed.

Did you see City’s starting lineup?

I want to give Hoedt time because he is still young but I am starting to think that he might be another waste of money.

Stephens definitely isn't good enough, and never will be.

The issue wasn't with their pre-season. The problems started when they lost some key players through injury. Most Stoke fans i've spoken to have said that the problems weren't Hughes' fault and that he should have been given more time. I've not spoken to one who thinks they would have gone down had he stayed.

You have spoken to a different lot than me. The ones I know hate him with a passion and blame him (and him only) for them going down!

I want to give Hoedt time because he is still young but I am starting to think that he might be another waste of money.

It's difficult to understand why some fans think he will come good. He's an awful player and the second half of last season was comical at times. Incredibly slow, clumsy on the ball, regularly beaten in the air, he doesn't possess one attribute that suggests he might become a good player. It worries me that we haven't done everything possible to get him out of the club.

3 at the back with our CB just doesn't feel right to me. It's our weakest area and I'd rather we had a back 4 with Vestergaard and Yoshida together and let them get an understanding going. It then allows us to play armstrong behind the striker and have two wide men. I think it suits our squad better

It is a training exercise, that's what pre-season friendlies are all about. We have another 3 yet to ramp it up. Unbelievable the wrist splitters on here (not you). Sounds like our main problem has been lack of protection from the MF (again) which exposes the defence, never really sorted that since the days of Morgan and Vic.

The issue is surely, that this is also a training exercise for Derby as well. And yet they were significantly better than us..

Totally agree. But he wasn't great at Pride Park yesterday.

Someone asked about Mason Mount - he certainly looked like he had loads of time on the ball (but that may be because he was playing Saints in early pre-season). Was really impressed with Lawrence too, and with Derby in general. They'll have a decent shout in the Championship.

Funny how people are slating Stephens. It's a far cry from the praise that was heaped on him following a impressive performance against Liverpool.

The Telegraph said "The centre of Southampton's defence has been decimated with Jose Fonte sold and Van Dijk going, but Stephens has been a revelation and was part of an impressive collective defensive display against Liverpool."

ESPN said, "If Hansen watched his beloved Liverpool being dumped out of the EFL Cup by Southampton on Wednesday night -- robbing Jurgen Klopp of the chance to win his first trophy in English football -- his words "You can't win anything with kids" would have come back to haunt him again.

For Southampton's 1-0 victory, securing a 2-0 aggregate scoreline, was built on a rock solid defence, with academy graduate Jack Stephens very much at the heart of it.

This time last year it is unlikely anyone outside of Hampshire would have heard of Stephens, who is now looking forward to a big Wembley final before even making his full Premier League debut. In fact, when the team sheets were released a little over an hour before kick-off with injured captain and star player Virgil van Dijk absent, Liverpool fans were buoyant at their chances of overturning a first leg deficit to set up a likely capital showdown with Manchester United."

 

Then there's the winner he scored against Watford in the FA Cup and the equaliser he bagged against Brighton. Some fans have a very short memory. He's not a league 2 defender, FFS.

FFS some of you lot are unbelievable! It was only preseason FFS and we've a LONG way to go before we are ready for the Premier League. Preseason means nothing FFS god damn ffs sh*t jesus woah ffs. That being said, it was an horrific performance and Stephens, Hoedt and Ward-Prowse need shooting or if you're feeling more generous perhaps just dropping. Hughes needs to sort this out or he deserves the sack. Based on that performance we are going down next season.

FFS

People need to stop having a go at our defence - Hughes cannot organise a defence. Never has, and will never be able to. The reason I didn't want him.

The issue wasn't with their pre-season. The problems started when they lost some key players through injury. Most Stoke fans i've spoken to have said that the problems weren't Hughes' fault and that he should have been given more time. I've not spoken to one who thinks they would have gone down had he stayed.

Seriously? Think you've been speaking to the 1% then.

People need to stop having a go at our defence - Hughes cannot organise a defence. Never has, and will never be able to. The reason I didn't want him.

That argument would hold more water if Hoedt and Stephens had been competent defenders before Hughes arrived but they weren't they where already ****e all Hughes has done so far is fail to improve them.

It's difficult to understand why some fans think he will come good. He's an awful player and the second half of last season was comical at times. Incredibly slow, clumsy on the ball, regularly beaten in the air, he doesn't possess one attribute that suggests he might become a good player. It worries me that we haven't done everything possible to get him out of the club.

 

3 at the back with our CB just doesn't feel right to me. It's our weakest area and I'd rather we had a back 4 with Vestergaard and Yoshida together and let them get an understanding going. It then allows us to play armstrong behind the striker and have two wide men. I think it suits our squad better

So given how weak we are there how is 2 at the back going to make us better defensively? I still think the formation will work and the but you have to take the calamity duo out of the equation, play Betrand and Cedric as wingbacks and you have play Romeu and Lemina in front of them.

Funny how people are slating Stephens. It's a far cry from the praise that was heaped on him following a impressive performance against Liverpool.

The Telegraph said "The centre of Southampton's defence has been decimated with Jose Fonte sold and Van Dijk going, but Stephens has been a revelation and was part of an impressive collective defensive display against Liverpool."

ESPN said, "If Hansen watched his beloved Liverpool being dumped out of the EFL Cup by Southampton on Wednesday night -- robbing Jurgen Klopp of the chance to win his first trophy in English football -- his words "You can't win anything with kids" would have come back to haunt him again.

For Southampton's 1-0 victory, securing a 2-0 aggregate scoreline, was built on a rock solid defence, with academy graduate Jack Stephens very much at the heart of it.

This time last year it is unlikely anyone outside of Hampshire would have heard of Stephens, who is now looking forward to a big Wembley final before even making his full Premier League debut. In fact, when the team sheets were released a little over an hour before kick-off with injured captain and star player Virgil van Dijk absent, Liverpool fans were buoyant at their chances of overturning a first leg deficit to set up a likely capital showdown with Manchester United."

 

Then there's the winner he scored against Watford in the FA Cup and the equaliser he bagged against Brighton. Some fans have a very short memory. He's not a league 2 defender, FFS.

He's capable of playing well but he makes lots of very poor errors. He's miles below the level you need if you want to be a decent top half team.

It’s a shame because if we had won maybe we could have looked towards top half, but now we can only assume relegation, and annoyingly it also means we will concede far too many goals. Oh well, maybe next year. Probably not much point watching this season, I’ll just come back next July to see how we did for the 2019-20 season in the championship.

Also a shame to see that Man City will draw all their games, only just enough to escape relegation, and annoying to see Everton win the league with a record number of goals.

Oh no wait, it means f all, it’s only an early preseason game.

It’s a shame because if we had won maybe we could have looked towards top half, but now we can only assume relegation, and annoyingly it also means we will concede far too many goals. Oh well, maybe next year. Probably not much point watching this season, I’ll just come back next July to see how we did for the 2019-20 season in the championship.

 

Also a shame to see that Man City will draw all their games, only just enough to escape relegation, and annoying to see Everton win the league with a record number of goals.

 

Oh no wait, it means f all, it’s only an early preseason game.

Nice attempt at sarcasm if we had won playing like we did yesterday I'd still be worried. This is just like last pre-season when people kept passing it off games as meaningless when anyone watching close enough could see the issues that marred last season already emerging. This pre-season's games have already shown we have issues in defence involving two players who where first choice CBs last season. Do people really think come first game of the season they are just going to become first class CBs?

What's with all this 'its only pre season' so it doesn't matter ******? Of course it does. It highlighted that 2 of our recent CB signings are slow, that one of them is awful on the ball, that Targett and Stephens don't offer quite enough, that Lemina still isn't interested, that there's a fair chance that we'll players in all sorts of odd positions, that we've got nothing up front, etc.

It's hard to take any really positived from that performance, and to me more positives than negatives is a concern.

I would like to see us go with 433.

McCarthy

Cedric

Vestergaard

Yoshida

Bertrand

Romeu

Hoj

Armstrong/Lemina

Mo

Austin/Gabbi

Redmond/New player

IIRC 8 or 9 teams were worse than us defensively last year, I don't get the fuss people are making about our centre-backs.

Our issue was scoring goals, that is what almost got us relegated.

IIRC 8 or 9 teams were worse than us defensively last year, I don't get the fuss people are making about our centre-backs.

 

Our issue was scoring goals, that is what almost got us relegated.

It's a bit more complicated than that pal.

Pellegrino set us up to be defensive and difficult to break down -e.g. recall Romeu's comments that the midfield was told not to support the attackers in case of a break. That we still had a below average defense despite all this extra attention and reinforcement speaks volumes. Trusting people like you with 'stats' is like trusting a toddler with a firearm.

Other friendly results

Mansfield 3-1 Derby

Bury 1-1 Everton

Man United 1-1 Club America

Wallsall 2-0 Ajax

Accrington Stanley 4-3 Middlesbrough

Sion 2-0 Inter Milan

Hughes out.

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Well what did you expect from Hughes.....

Stephens is good on the ball and holds up well and often wins the ball. It is obvious he doesn't like heading the ball or competing to win in the air. his biggest failing in my book is his ball watching and being caught out in the goal mouth.

Hoedt is decent enough in the air but in critical moments often slips and ends up on his backside. Yesterday we conceded a goal because he missed a challenge by going in with the wrong foot because he prefers his left foot. It was a situation that required the right foot in rather than being late and missing with his left. His other major issue is the number of Cruyff turns he makes under pressure, sometimes losing the ball or slipping over. he was also ball watching for the close in goal.

Vestergaard missed his tackle for the first goal.

Hughes Reaction....

“It’s pre-season. Clearly we want to do better than we showed but credit to Derby, they look in good nick and are a week ahead of us and that makes a difference at this stage.

 

to say they were nice and bright and at times we weren’t bright enough.

 

“We have got a good week next week when we go away and we have got to look to get the sharper elements of our play up to speed. We have only been back a couple of weeks and with the travel we’ve had we’ve had to concentrate on being a little bit careful with them.

 

“We can look to good work now. We have had just a week back home which has helped us but on today’s showing we need a little bit more.”

 

He added: “There is a little bit of a lack of intensity and anticipation and a lot of that is to do with timing.

 

 

“When you are in a good run of form and into the games those moments and situations happen and you recognise them quickly and you do something about it but we were a little bit slow in terms of our anticipation.

 

“We need to step up. We have had three games now, we have conceded too many goals than I would like so we still need to do the fundamentals right in terms of getting the defensive work right.

 

“I am glad that the situations that could have been addressed have been highlighted so we can highlight that and learn from them.”

 

New signing Jannik Vestergaard was at fault with one of the goals but it wasn’t anything that unduly worried the Saints manager.

 

“He’s a big guy but he’s got a good appreciation of a pass, there was one incident where he mistimed but that’s just a timing issue so he will be ok."

 

“Sometimes you worry about maybe coming from a different type of league but from the Bundesliga to the Premier League is probably the best transition you can have.

 

“There is stuff to work on and that’s what pre-season is for"

Did any of the moaners notice that wasn’t Saints’ first XI? It was a kick about using 20 different players. Hard to understand why some people follow our club when they dislike so much about it.

I think this is a valid point

However if you compare the overall transfer in costs of both squads and the annual outlay on wages, I reckon there would be quite a difference and that should show itself in the overall quality Saints should have to offer.

It is pertinent to factor in the likelihood that Derby were a week advanced in their training and more up for a home game against higher league opponents but this really does not excuse the disparity in performance between the two sides.

When I used to play we always wanted to put in a decent performance whatever the circumstances.

That didnt seem to happen yesterday and this is worrying for the future

IIRC 8 or 9 teams were worse than us defensively last year, I don't get the fuss people are making about our centre-backs.

 

Our issue was scoring goals, that is what almost got us relegated.

yet Burnley scored less goals than us and finished 7th it's amazing what a good organised defence can achieve

Hughes Reaction....

So even the manager thinks the defence is an issue

"We need to step up. We have had three games now, we have conceded too many goals than I would like so we still need to do the fundamentals right in terms of getting the defensive work right."

It thought he would have just brushed it off as unimportant as it's a pre-season game..

So even the manager thinks the defence is an issue

 

"We need to step up. We have had three games now, we have conceded too many goals than I would like so we still need to do the fundamentals right in terms of getting the defensive work right."

 

It thought he would have just brushed it off as unimportant as it's a pre-season game..

Mentioned "too readily conceding" several times.

Mentioned "too readily conceding" several times.

Which at least means Hughes can see the problem. How he solves it will be the issue. I can't see us signing another CB this summer so its all about how he gets the best out of what we have for me that means no Hoedt or Stephens in the starting 11 I'm not convinced Hughes can turn them competent in the next few weeks.

Which at least means Hughes can see the problem. How he solves it will be the issue. I can't see us signing another CB this summer so its all about how he gets the best out of what we have for me that means no Hoedt or Stephens in the starting 11 I'm not convinced Hughes can turn them competent in the next few weeks.

Agree. Assuming Hughes persists with the 3 CBs, a big question is what he does with Bertrand. Yoshida Vestergaard Bertrand could be a solution, though would rather see Bertrand play as wingback (arguably wingback with Cedric and Bertrand is the strongest area of the side).

As mentioned already it's only pre season and experimentation, if we are getting our knickers in a twist just imagine the dark mood on Merseyside where Liverpool failed to score with a healthy team and likewise Everton could only score one, both drawing against League 2 Bury (who were already relegated before Christmas last season) using that has a barometer Huddersfield must be rubbing their hands together As they smashed the shakers 4-0.

Agree. Assuming Hughes persists with the 3 CBs, a big question is what he does with Bertrand. Yoshida Vestergaard Bertrand could be a solution, though would rather see Bertrand play as wingback (arguably wingback with Cedric and Bertrand is the strongest area of the side).

Agreed. Maybe he’ll go with Yoshida, Vestergaard and Bednarek. With Cedric and Bertrand wing backs.

As mentioned already it's only pre season and experimentation, if we are getting our knickers in a twist just imagine the dark mood on Merseyside where Liverpool failed to score with a healthy team and likewise Everton could only score one, both drawing against League 2 Bury (who were already relegated before Christmas last season) using that has a barometer Huddersfield must be rubbing their hands together As they smashed the shakers 4-0.

So the fact we entered preseason, having survived by the skin of our teeth and the same players that nearly relegated us look surprise surprise exactly the same is irrelevant?

Of course, preseason doesn't matter in isolation. Nobody has claimed that as far as I can tell except morons intent on building lazy strawmen.

Edit

Agreed. Maybe he’ll go with Yoshida' date=' Vestergaard and Bednarek. With Cedric and Bertrand wing backs.[/quote']

 

Bednarek is a right footer. Hoedt would be the natural choice there.

I think Yoshi, Vest and Hoot are our best 3 CB personally.

Hoedt is our worst centre back a total calamity!