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Thread: Josh Sims

  1. Default Josh Sims

    Some suggestion that Blackburn may be interested in taking him on loan.

    If so, good move for all parties???

  2. #2

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    Assuming we bring in someone else to play on the wing, then yes.

    He could do with games regularly at his age, and probably wont start many games for us if at all.

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    Quote Originally Posted by spyinthesky View Post
    Some suggestion that Blackburn may be interested in taking him on loan.

    If so, good move for all parties???
    Where's the story come from?

  4. #4

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    I'd be very surprised if we let him go out now, given that we only have Redmond, Elyounoussi and Sims who can play wide in a front 3. Davis and Armstrong would also be able to 'do a job' there but it certainly isn't their natural position. Unless we're going to sign someone new, I would say Sims will get plenty of game time this season for us.

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    Sims has had some good games for us, and we're not exactly blessed with strength in the attacking midfield department, so I would hope we would keep hold of him - in fact I'd hope we'd keep him even if we do sign another attacking player. Additionally he doesn't count towards a place in the 25 man squad so is a decent option to have around. If this move were to happen, then I can only assume we will be bringing in another attacking midfielder/winger, as Elyounoussi and Redmond alone are not nearly enough.

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    He needs regular games which 90% chance he won't get in this league. Get Sisto, Promes, Ghoddos or any other good more experienced player in his position in then loan him out.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Saint IQ View Post
    He needs regular games which 90% chance he won't get in this league. Get Sisto, Promes, Ghoddos or any other good more experienced player in his position in then loan him out.
    If we loan out sims and gallagher the club can **** off.

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    Quote Originally Posted by LeG View Post
    If we loan out sims and gallagher the club can **** off.
    Playing devils advocate: if the club needs to get players out to bring in a new signing, who else is going to go?

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    Quote Originally Posted by SuperSAINT View Post
    Playing devils advocate: if the club needs to get players out to bring in a new signing, who else is going to go?
    I think this is Sims' breakthrough year in the PL. A player that gets you excited when he's on the ball. He doesnt need a loan and i'd rather we played a player with genuine talent (and pace) who has come through the ranks. If anyone has to go out on loan, it's Hesketh. I'll be dismayed if it's Sims and so will a lot of people at the club.

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    Quote Originally Posted by SuperSAINT View Post
    Playing devils advocate: if the club needs to get players out to bring in a new signing, who else is going to go?
    Sims is not blocking anyone in terms of squad. How about we actually play some of our a academy kids instead of continually bringing in Carlos Kickaballs who prove to be no better. If we can't bring players like Sims and Gallagher through what is the point of having an a academy? Any other country these kids would be in the team, but here no one has the balls to give them a chance.

  11. Default

    Quote Originally Posted by LeG View Post
    I think this is Sims' breakthrough year in the PL. A player that gets you excited when he's on the ball. He doesnt need a loan and i'd rather we played a player with genuine talent (and pace) who has come through the ranks. If anyone has to go out on loan, it's Hesketh. I'll be dismayed if it's Sims and so will a lot of people at the club.
    I hope you're right about Sims. Really needs to stay injury-free as well.

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    Quote Originally Posted by VectisSaint View Post
    Sims is not blocking anyone in terms of squad. How about we actually play some of our a academy kids instead of continually bringing in Carlos Kickaballs who prove to be no better. If we can't bring players like Sims and Gallagher through what is the point of having an a academy? Any other country these kids would be in the team, but here no one has the balls to give them a chance.
    In my defence:
    In common parlance, the term devil's advocate describes someone who, given a certain point of view, takes a position he or she does not necessarily agree with (or simply an alternative position from the accepted norm), for the sake of debate or to explore the thought further.

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    Quote Originally Posted by VectisSaint View Post
    Sims is not blocking anyone in terms of squad. How about we actually play some of our a academy kids instead of continually bringing in Carlos Kickaballs who prove to be no better. If we can't bring players like Sims and Gallagher through what is the point of having an a academy? Any other country these kids would be in the team, but here no one has the balls to give them a chance.
    Like JWP and Stephens, two of the most heavily criticised players in the squad (and quite rightly a lot of the time).

    If the club had academy prospects who were close to being as capable as £15m signings, they'd all be in the team but we don't. JS and JWP are the best of the bunch, the rest simply aren't ready.

  14. #14

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    Personally feel Sims is quite rough around the edges and probably a good loan move woild be great for him.

    He isn't ready to be a regular starter at PL level and playing a bit part role with some drossy U23 games thrown in won't help him.

    See how he does in the Championship until January.

  15. #15

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    Quote Originally Posted by LeG View Post
    I think this is Sims' breakthrough year in the PL. A player that gets you excited when he's on the ball. He doesnt need a loan and i'd rather we played a player with genuine talent (and pace) who has come through the ranks. If anyone has to go out on loan, it's Hesketh. I'll be dismayed if it's Sims and so will a lot of people at the club.
    Totally agree. A year on loan in the Championship is of little benefit for someone who is ready (and good enough) for the Premier League.

    Hesketh, though... has looked a cracking player whenever I’ve seen him, but with his omission from the squad to France, Hughes is the third manager in a row who seems to think he isn’t ready. At his age he needs to be playing some meaningful football to see if he can make it. He definitely has talent so I think the club should be actively looking to find the right environment for him to go out on loan.

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    Quote Originally Posted by batterseasaint View Post
    Totally agree. A year on loan in the Championship is of little benefit for someone who is ready (and good enough) for the Premier League.

    Hesketh, though... has looked a cracking player whenever I’ve seen him, but with his omission from the squad to France, Hughes is the third manager in a row who seems to think he isn’t ready. At his age he needs to be playing some meaningful football to see if he can make it. He definitely has talent so I think the club should be actively looking to find the right environment for him to go out on loan.
    I’m not entirely sure he is ready for the Premier League. He had a decent game against Everton 2 years ago but has done little else since. Last start I can remember was the 0-0 with Stoke where he contributed nothing of note.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Lighthouse View Post
    I’m not entirely sure he is ready for the Premier League. He had a decent game against Everton 2 years ago but has done little else since. Last start I can remember was the 0-0 with Stoke where he contributed nothing of note.
    Bit of a part in the League Cup semi final at Anfield. In fact if Shane Long had shown as much composure in playing in Charlie Austin in the Chelsea semi final last season as Sims did playing in Austin in that game, we might have made the FA Cup final.

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    He's a good prospect and we're light on wingers. I hope he's given a proper chance this season.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Lighthouse View Post
    I’m not entirely sure he is ready for the Premier League. He had a decent game against Everton 2 years ago but has done little else since. Last start I can remember was the 0-0 with Stoke where he contributed nothing of note.
    Carrillo wasn’t ready for the premier league, Boufal despite flashes wasn’t ready for the Premier League, so the not ready for the Premier League arguement for academy lads who have been trained to play in the Premier League and look the part is a bit lame, their only disadvantage is they get tossed in and out of the side or get a brief cameo, never a run in the side. Hesketh smashed in a nice goal v Palace so Puel gave him a run in Israel where he looked like a fish up a tree and got pulled off during the First Half watching that game you thought hmmmm he doesn’t look like the normal lads tossed into the frey out of the Academy - just thinking of Harrison Reed being brought on v City, admittedly we were 3-1 to the good, but the way he harried and pestered Aguero with no respect or fear to the point where Agueros body language on a couple of occasions was “was will you just F Off!!”.
    If Mo turns out to be another foreign damp squib, I would have no qualms about Sims getting games, the one thing you do get from him is no fannying about, he is direct, he runs into the spots you want to see a player run into without even thinking about it. That run at Anfield in the cup semi from just outside our box just shows he has the intelligence to be a premier league player, he took Matip (?) right out of the game with his pace and the nouse to run across him making the Liverpool player check his run slow him down and he was gone.
    Got to give lads like him runs in the team not bit parts like they are getting, and folks especially on here mithering because they aren’t playing like Messi on PS3 straight out of the box!

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    Quote Originally Posted by John Boy Saint View Post
    Carrillo wasn’t ready for the premier league, Boufal despite flashes wasn’t ready for the Premier League, so the not ready for the Premier League arguement for academy lads who have been trained to play in the Premier League and look the part is a bit lame, their only disadvantage is they get tossed in and out of the side or get a brief cameo, never a run in the side. Hesketh smashed in a nice goal v Palace so Puel gave him a run in Israel where he looked like a fish up a tree and got pulled off during the First Half watching that game you thought hmmmm he doesn’t look like the normal lads tossed into the frey out of the Academy - just thinking of Harrison Reed being brought on v City, admittedly we were 3-1 to the good, but the way he harried and pestered Aguero with no respect or fear to the point where Agueros body language on a couple of occasions was “was will you just F Off!!”.
    If Mo turns out to be another foreign damp squib, I would have no qualms about Sims getting games, the one thing you do get from him is no fannying about, he is direct, he runs into the spots you want to see a player run into without even thinking about it. That run at Anfield in the cup semi from just outside our box just shows he has the intelligence to be a premier league player, he took Matip (?) right out of the game with his pace and the nouse to run across him making the Liverpool player check his run slow him down and he was gone.
    Got to give lads like him runs in the team not bit parts like they are getting, and folks especially on here mithering because they aren’t playing like Messi on PS3 straight out of the box!
    Not sure how you got to that bit. It doesn't matter how poor some of our foreign signings have been, if academy players aren't up to it then giving them game time wont fix the problem. It reminds me a bit of the Burley/Poortvliet years. Everyone moaning about journeymen like Euell, Skacel and Viafara under-performing, saying let's give the kids ago. Then we did and got relegated.

    One good game against a sub standard Everton team, coupled with one good run at Anfield (against tired legs who had committed forward, when he had been on the field 10 minutes) is not enough to say he is ready. Otherwise we'd all be championing Forster's cause based on his 4 clean sheets last season.

  21. #21

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    Quote Originally Posted by VectisSaint View Post
    Sims is not blocking anyone in terms of squad. How about we actually play some of our a academy kids instead of continually bringing in Carlos Kickaballs who prove to be no better. If we can't bring players like Sims and Gallagher through what is the point of having an a academy? Any other country these kids would be in the team, but here no one has the balls to give them a chance.
    We played Shaw right from the off. Why? Because he was bloody good enough. There may well have been a change of manager or two since then, but IMO Sims and Gallagher simply have not been to the standard required to justify more games.

    From what I have seen of Sims, a nice run and pass at Anfield apart, he isn't some sort of Ryan Giggs in waiting. Gallagher also lacked the composure in front of goal when he was thrown in at the deep end. I admit there isn't a huge amount of games to judge them on, but the coaches know what they have. If Sims is beating Bertrand then you have a player. If he is in his pocket its hardly surprising the manager is reluctant to give them starts.

    Both may still come good, I've seen Gallagher improve steadily once The Clott was given the shove at Brum, but he needed another season in the Championship. Personally I have no problem whatsoever them being sent out on loan to learn the trade and get game time. Far better idea than reducing the quality of our first team. we have made some woeful signings. You don't stop trying to improve the first team because of those errors.

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    We're daft if we don't play him. We sign players like Boufal who don't make an impact, Tadic was poor until the end of the season, Redmond had a dire campaign. So if a talented youngster can't be given a chance now when can they?

    the rare chances he gets he always looks decent. think there's room to sign another winger and keep sims very much part of the squad. he should be coming off the bench most games and starting a few cup matches.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Chez View Post
    We played Shaw right from the off. Why? Because he was bloody good enough. There may well have been a change of manager or two since then, but IMO Sims and Gallagher simply have not been to the standard required to justify more games.

    .
    That's only true if you rate the managers making the decisions.

    I thought Puel was too safe and Pellegrino was abysmal, so I'm not surprised he ignored talented youngsters. This not good enough is ridiculous when the people getting game time are performing so badly. It's not some generic 'premier league good enough', it's whether they can offer more than Redmond and Long, who scored what, 2 goals between them last season??

    Young players come through at different rates, different ages. They need decent management and some faith in them. The only thing true of all of them is that some genius fans will write them off.

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    Quote Originally Posted by adriansfc View Post
    That's only true if you rate the managers making the decisions.

    I thought Puel was too safe and Pellegrino was abysmal, so I'm not surprised he ignored talented youngsters. This not good enough is ridiculous when the people getting game time are performing so badly. It's not some generic 'premier league good enough', it's whether they can offer more than Redmond and Long, who scored what, 2 goals between them last season??

    Young players come through at different rates, different ages. They need decent management and some faith in them. The only thing true of all of them is that some genius fans will write them off.
    Puel gave Stephens his big break; gave McQueen chances. Sims too but he didnít capitalise on them.

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    Quote Originally Posted by LeG View Post
    I think this is Sims' breakthrough year in the PL. A player that gets you excited when he's on the ball. He doesnt need a loan and i'd rather we played a player with genuine talent (and pace) who has come through the ranks. If anyone has to go out on loan, it's Hesketh. I'll be dismayed if it's Sims and so will a lot of people at the club.
    Quite. Sims has looked quality whenever he's been played, I'd hope this loan rumour was inaccurate.

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    Quote Originally Posted by LeG View Post
    I think this is Sims' breakthrough year in the PL. A player that gets you excited when he's on the ball. He doesnt need a loan and i'd rather we played a player with genuine talent (and pace) who has come through the ranks. If anyone has to go out on loan, it's Hesketh. I'll be dismayed if it's Sims and so will a lot of people at the club.
    Couldn't agree with you more. Sims has already shown the talent, speed and skill to make an impression at Prem level. He should be a regular this season.

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    Quote Originally Posted by austsaint View Post
    Couldn't agree with you more. Sims has already shown the talent, speed and skill to make an impression at Prem level. He should be a regular this season.
    Agreed. I really can't understand why people are saying he has shown he isn't good enough. Almost every time I've seen him play he's looked exciting and shown that he very much is good enough.

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    Quote Originally Posted by hypochondriac View Post
    Agreed. I really can't understand why people are saying he has shown he isn't good enough. Almost every time I've seen him play he's looked exciting and shown that he very much is good enough.
    Agree with this. He is more than good enough.

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    Quote Originally Posted by LeG View Post
    I think this is Sims' breakthrough year in the PL. A player that gets you excited when he's on the ball. He doesnt need a loan and i'd rather we played a player with genuine talent (and pace) who has come through the ranks. If anyone has to go out on loan, it's Hesketh. I'll be dismayed if it's Sims and so will a lot of people at the club.
    Agree on Sims, need that type of player but does Hesketh still play football? If so, he definitely needs a loan to somewhere to become a bit more robust, get some competitive football under his belt. Took a while for Lallana to come through after his debut v Preston but Hesketh is taking it to an extreme.

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    Quote Originally Posted by austsaint View Post
    Couldn't agree with you more. Sims has already shown the talent, speed and skill to make an impression at Prem level. He should be a regular this season.
    yep

    If anyone remembers Burnley away last season, when Pellegrino put Sims on game changed and we looked far more direct.
    I like the bloke, and think for all of us we’d prefer an academy player to play because you would like to think he would give it his all over a player like Boufal

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    Quote Originally Posted by hypochondriac View Post
    Agreed. I really can't understand why people are saying he has shown he isn't good enough. Almost every time I've seen him play he's looked exciting and shown that he very much is good enough.
    His style of play is exciting because he looks to run at the opposition.

    Whether he is truely effective is another thing.

    I feel he could develop into a player that gets regular PL game time, but that he isn't ready to start 15 PL games just now - his ball retention, final ball, composure etc isnt of the level needed now to have more than just fleeting moments.

    For his development it would be better to play 35 games at a lower level, than 8 games at ours.

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    I doubt he would do worse than what I saw last season. I'd give him a run of games and see what he can do.
    Quote Originally Posted by Dusic View Post
    His style of play is exciting because he looks to run at the opposition.

    Whether he is truely effective is another thing.

    I feel he could develop into a player that gets regular PL game time, but that he isn't ready to start 15 PL games just now - his ball retention, final ball, composure etc isnt of the level needed now to have more than just fleeting moments.

    For his development it would be better to play 35 games at a lower level, than 8 games at ours.

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    Quote Originally Posted by spyinthesky View Post
    Some suggestion that Blackburn may be interested in taking him on loan.

    If so, good move for all parties???
    Quote Originally Posted by LeG View Post
    If we loan out sims and gallagher the club can **** off.
    Hardly a good move for Saints, LeG's initial reaction is mine too. The ethos of this club is to develop through the Academy. Gallagher and Sims are gems and should be given every chance here, not shipped out on loan or sold off. We have to sell to buy, so loaning won't generate much/any capital.

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    Quote Originally Posted by the saint in winchester View Post
    Hardly a good move for Saints, LeG's initial reaction is mine too. The ethos of this club is to develop through the Academy. Gallagher and Sims are gems and should be given every chance here, not shipped out on loan or sold off. We have to sell to buy, so loaning won't generate much/any capital.
    I'm quite conflicted about this. I like Sims and would like to see him playing regularly; But if he's just going to be sitting on the bench then he's better off playing so long as it isn't for some basket case Championship team - accepting that's always difficult to call before the season starts.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Faz View Post
    I'm quite conflicted about this. I like Sims and would like to see him playing regularly; But if he's just going to be sitting on the bench then he's better off playing so long as it isn't for some basket case Championship team - accepting that's always difficult to call before the season starts.
    It is. We send players off on loan assuming they will be developed and improved. Just as often as not, they get left out or played out of position to meet the loan club deficiencies. (eg Gallagher playing at RW, Reed at RB for Norwich).
    Last edited by the saint in winchester; 27-07-2018 at 04:40 PM.

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    Quote Originally Posted by hypochondriac View Post
    I doubt he would do worse than what I saw last season. I'd give him a run of games and see what he can do.
    I doubt he is worse but I doubt he is much better either, which is imperative for us after how poor we performed last season. Being as good as Boufal is of little use to us, he needs to be a significant upgrade and based on what we've seen so far, there is little evidence of that. He's had chances and aside from one good game 2 years ago, never really seized them. He's come of the bench several times and despite the advantage of being fresher than everyone else, has made little impact.

    Quote Originally Posted by davefizzy14 View Post
    Agree with this. He is more than good enough.
    If he was good enough, he'd have been starting for Saints. If he was more than good enough he'd be at Anfield by now.

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    Quote Originally Posted by LeG View Post
    If we loan out sims and gallagher the club can **** off.
    One of the best posts I've read this summer. Hat tipped.

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    The problem for Sims, Hesketh, Gallager and other young players is that they can't stay in limbo forever. New younger kids are coming along every year and need headroom above the U23's where they also can train in and around the senior players to mature and improve their techniques and try to impress. Sims, Hesketh, Gallager and others have had their chances to impress 3 managers now and fleetingly they have done so but not nearly consistently enough to secure a coveted regular first team slot.

    If they are kept in this limbo state but cannot break through then they are blocking spaces for the next batch of youngsters. Going out on loan gives them one last chance to make an impression here as well as vital match development time and regular football. Then their spaces are freed up here for the next group.

    Of all the young players currently in this limboland, Harry Reed seems to me to be the one most likely to make it and I wouldn't have said that a year ago.

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    Quote Originally Posted by LeG View Post
    I think this is Sims' breakthrough year in the PL. A player that gets you excited when he's on the ball. He doesnt need a loan and i'd rather we played a player with genuine talent (and pace) who has come through the ranks. If anyone has to go out on loan, it's Hesketh. I'll be dismayed if it's Sims and so will a lot of people at the club.
    This.

    I have seen enough of Sims to think he could make an PL impact if he was given regular playing time. To me, it's his time in the PL now or forever be on loan for the next 3 years.

    re: Sam Gallagher

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    Quote Originally Posted by SaintTex View Post
    This.

    I have seen enough of Sims to think he could make an PL impact if he was given regular playing time. To me, it's his time in the PL now or forever be on loan for the next 3 years.

    re: Sam Gallagher
    I think that's the consensus. Even if he's not good enough to be a starter, he's certainly good enough to be part of the squad.

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    I’m not qualified to know whether Sims is First Team level or not, but FWIW I think it’s very difficult to develop an Academy Player who’s at exactly the right level/standard for our first team.

    In an ideal world, they’ll be too good (like Walcott, Bale) etc. They’ll play for a year or two then “move to the next level” and earn us a big transfer fee.

    The only Academy player I can think of who was exactly at our level was Adam Lallana. Maybe Callum Chambers too (who seems to have disappeared at Arsenal)

    If one of our Academy players isn’t quite at our level and we sell him to Bristol City for £4 million for example, surely we could count that as a modest success for our Academy. It will give us funds to develop the next generation and keep progressing.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Simon3737 View Post
    I’m not qualified to know whether Sims is First Team level or not, but FWIW I think it’s very difficult to develop an Academy Player who’s at exactly the right level/standard for our first team.

    In an ideal world, they’ll be too good (like Walcott, Bale) etc. They’ll play for a year or two then “move to the next level” and earn us a big transfer fee.

    The only Academy player I can think of who was exactly at our level was Adam Lallana. Maybe Callum Chambers too (who seems to have disappeared at Arsenal)

    If one of our Academy players isn’t quite at our level and we sell him to Bristol City for £4 million for example, surely we could count that as a modest success for our Academy. It will give us funds to develop the next generation and keep progressing.
    It is when you don't play them. Poch is literally point in case. Chambers, Shaw, Gallagher etc. Barely any game time at any club since he left. Relatively speaking.

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    Good decision to loan him out, needs games and he isn’t going to start week in week out.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Saint86 View Post
    It is when you don't play them. Poch is literally point in case. Chambers, Shaw, Gallagher etc. Barely any game time at any club since he left. Relatively speaking.
    Chambers has played 105 games since he left us, 72 in the PL (Arsenal and Middlesbro).

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    Sims joins Reading on a season long loan.

    @SouthamptonFC: #SaintsFC youngster @simsjosh12 has today completed a season-long loan move to #ReadingFC.
    https://southamptonfc.com/news/2018-...ding-loan-deal

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    Good move for him. Although I was hoping he would get more game time this year with us, if that isn't going to happen, he needs to play to progress - he's beyond the U23s.

  47. Default

    Good luck JS. Go smash it

  48. Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Faz View Post
    Good move for him. Although I was hoping he would get more game time this year with us, if that isn't going to happen, he needs to play to progress - he's beyond the U23s.
    He really is. He's the last player that really smashed it playing for the U23's. I remember the 4 assists in the Checkatrade.

  49. #49

    Join Date
    Dec 2006
    Location
    New Forest
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    4,945

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    Surprised at this really, looks like Hughes doesn't fancy him at all. Would have thought he'd have had a better future coming off the bench for Redmond or Moi.

    Anyway, good luck lad you have to safeguard your own future not leave it to the 'wisdom' of Hughes and his honcho's.

  50. #50

    Join Date
    Nov 2006
    Location
    Toronto
    Posts
    2,356

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    disappointed with this one, felt he is worthy of a place in the matchday squad. Genuinely exiting player.

    Hoping Hesketh would be loaned, now there is a player that needs a loan.

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