Biggest Problem: Defence or Attack?

Probably not the best sign that we are weak in both areas, but which do people see as our biggest problem area?

Defence - where we have a number of bang average centre backs and seemingly have to play with 3 to cover for their ineptitude?

Attack - where we have one striker who scores but is always injured, another who was good for two months a year and a half ago and a third whose best attribute is running, mixed with a series of goal shy midfielders?

Tough one for me, but feel our attack is what holds us back most and puts more pressure on an already fragile defence.

What do you think?

Attack is the biggest problem for me. Also, with a better attacking line and supply, we will be able to put teams under more pressure, which in turn will take the heat of our defence.

Defence for me. It all starts around clean sheets and gives you chance to pinch games. That was Burnley strength last year too.

Still want entertainment bu5 having to score 3 goals a game to get draws are not fun...in my opinion

What about midfield?

Defence for me. Burnley where best of the rest last season based on a very good defence and actually scored one less goal than us. Our success under Koeman was based on a solid defence (good enough to make Forster look decent)

There is a lot of talk about our midfield not supporting out forwards but can you blame them when they know if the break formation the opposition will ruthlessly exploit the keystone cops at the back. Same for the full backs getting forward just leaves Hoedt and Stephens exposed. A good attack is built on a solid defence our midfield can get forward to support the forwards with confidence as can the full backs if the trust the CBs and keeper to do their jobs.

We're weak everywhere,

Defence - Lets hope Vestergaard is a big improvement, and Hoedt steps up this season and Yoshida stays fit.

Midfield - Ok in this area, but a lack of pace and a lack of attacking intent - lets hope Lemina can be on it all season, and Armstrong fits in and scores a few. And we still need a quick winger

Strikers - Lets just pray we sign one before the window closes. It's been a problem for 3 years now,

The thing is, the defence under Koeman was better than now in part because we had such a great forward line and a lot of pace. We could buy the two best CB's in the world and still concede goals if the forward line is poor. It is thus that I feel we need a really dangerous forward/number 10 to take the heat off the already weakish back line. We have some quite good quality and promising defenders in already, but we are still tragically weak at the back.

Probably not the best sign that we are weak in both areas, but which do people see as our biggest problem area?

 

Defence - where we have a number of bang average centre backs and seemingly have to play with 3 to cover for their ineptitude?

 

Attack - where we have one striker who scores but is always injured, another who was good for two months a year and a half ago and a third whose best attribute is running, mixed with a series of goal shy midfielders?

 

Tough one for me, but feel our attack is what holds us back most and puts more pressure on an already fragile defence.

 

What do you think?

You seem a bit more pessimistic than a week ago......

To be fair we don't need a lot, one more really good attacking player would probably do and RB/WB cover if they don't feel Reed is up to it.

 

Sometimes good players become available as other deals happen, so might be waiting to see what falls into place.

I think with Yoshi and Cedric back, plus Vestergaard, the backs should solidify. I think out biggest issue is the attacking mids. We had 1 last season, Tadic. We have basically swapped Tadic for Mo so I think thats a wash. We still have the remaining Redmonds/JWP's of the world left. These guys don't score, and don't feed much to the strikers (whichever one), so they get isolated. Our best mids are defensively minded players, we need more attackers there. Maybe Armstrong is going to help, or Redmond starts to play much better, lets see.

The thing is, the defence under Koeman was better than now in part because we had such a great forward line and a lot of pace. We could buy the two best CB's in the world and still concede goals if the forward line is poor. It is thus that I feel we need a really dangerous forward/number 10 to take the heat off the already weakish back line. We have some quite good quality and promising defenders in already, but we are still tragically weak at the back.

This is the key. But not just to benefit the defense. A dangerous goal-scorer lifts the whole team.

Midfield. Games are won and lost in midfield. The protection for the defence is nowhere near as good as it has been; I'm not sure where the creativity comes from with Tadic gone - it doesn't matter how good your strikers are if they ain't having chances made for them; and with the exception possibly on the new fella, I can't see who from midfield will chip in with goals. Then there's the lack of pace.

I think with Yoshi and Cedric back, plus Vestergaard, the backs should solidify. I think out biggest issue is the attacking mids. We had 1 last season, Tadic. We have basically swapped Tadic for Mo so I think thats a wash. We still have the remaining Redmonds/JWP's of the world left. These guys don't score, and don't feed much to the strikers (whichever one), so they get isolated. Our best mids are defensively minded players, we need more attackers there. Maybe Armstrong is going to help, or Redmond starts to play much better, lets see.

isn't Armstrong an attacking midfielder I was under the impression he was?

Midfield. Games are won and lost in midfield. The protection for the defence is nowhere near as good as it has been; I'm not sure where the creativity comes from with Tadic gone - it doesn't matter how good your strikers are if they ain't having chances made for them; and with the exception possibly on the new fella, I can't see who from midfield will chip in with goals. Then there's the lack of pace.

TBF we were 8th in the league for big chances missed, last season, according to the PL official site. According to this we failed to sink 37 big chances better strikers might have sunk a few more of those and given us a few more points

https://www.premierleague.com/stats/top/clubs/big_chance_missed?se=79

we were also 10th for shots taken last season

https://www.premierleague.com/stats/top/clubs/total_scoring_att?se=79

and 6th for hitting the woodwork (15 times )

https://www.premierleague.com/stats/top/clubs/hit_woodwork?se=79

which kind of suggests our finishing was a bit ****e last season. Better strikers might have done more with the service that was provided.

Defend from the front, always the way.

Last season the team was set up to attack like the Italian army, happy days for the oppos push up at will, if we have a couple of effective predators up front then we don't end up with 21 players camped in and around our 18 yard box quite so often.

Pelle and Mane up front our defence looked pretty damn good..........ain't rocket science

Defence is the problem.

TBF we were 8th in the league for big chances missed, last season, according to the PL official site. According to this we failed to sink 37 big chances better strikers might have sunk a few more of those and given us a few more points

 

https://www.premierleague.com/stats/top/clubs/big_chance_missed?se=79

 

we were also 10th for shots taken last season

 

https://www.premierleague.com/stats/top/clubs/total_scoring_att?se=79

 

and 6th for hitting the woodwork (15 times )

 

https://www.premierleague.com/stats/top/clubs/hit_woodwork?se=79

 

 

which kind of suggests our finishing was a bit ****e last season. Better strikers might have done more with the service that was provided.

Thanks for that - the big chances missed stat surprises me. My concern though is who's gonna create this season. Tadic was massively underrated imo and we'll miss his creativity. Armstrong seems a different player to me, more industrious in the Davis mould.

Thanks for that - the big chances missed stat surprises me. My concern though is who's gonna create this season. Tadic was massively underrated imo and we'll miss his creativity. Armstrong seems a different player to me, more industrious in the Davis mould.

I agree Tadic was great and Armstrong is probably going to be a younger Steven Davis (not a bad thing IMO).

As for who creates our chances I'd suggest its our full backs/wingbacks last season we put in the second highest number of crosses in the league only spurs put in more crosses than us

https://www.premierleague.com/stats/top/clubs/total_cross?se=79

I believe we have been in the top 5 for crosses almost every season, apart from our first, since we returned to the PL (and in the top 2 for 4 or those 5 seasons) that is where our threat comes from every season and makes our lack of a big CF target man pretty baffling to me.

I agree Tadic was great and Armstrong is probably going to be a younger Steven Davis (not a bad thing IMO).

 

 

As for who creates our chances I'd suggest its our full backs/wingbacks last season we put in the second highest number of crosses in the league only spurs put in more crosses than us

 

https://www.premierleague.com/stats/top/clubs/total_cross?se=79

 

I believe we have been in the top 5 for crosses almost every season, apart from our first, since we returned to the PL (and in the top 2 for 4 or those 5 seasons) that is where our threat comes from every season and makes our lack of a big CF target man pretty baffling to me.

Tadic was not great. Started playing towards the end but I do not recall much greatness

Tadic was not great. Started playing towards the end but I do not recall much greatness

I was talking about his time in general as a saints player rather than half a season. He was one of my favourite players the last few seasons but if it makes you feel better.... Tadic was average?

I think with Yoshi and Cedric back, plus Vestergaard, the backs should solidify. I think out biggest issue is the attacking mids. We had 1 last season, Tadic. We have basically swapped Tadic for Mo so I think thats a wash. We still have the remaining Redmonds/JWP's of the world left. These guys don't score, and don't feed much to the strikers (whichever one), so they get isolated. Our best mids are defensively minded players, we need more attackers there. Maybe Armstrong is going to help, or Redmond starts to play much better, lets see.

Was JWP not one of are leading goal scorers and creator last season despite playing less mins ( less than half ) than every one who out scored and out assisted him? baffling…… he is no world class player sure, but he does create and has started to score goals.

The teams weakness is finishing, we are rubbish at it, don't matter what attacking players you put out if your strikers and Forwards all need a trillion chances to put one away eg Austin, Long, Gabbie, Tadic, Redmond and Boufal

Was JWP not one of are leading goal scorers and creator last season despite playing less mins ( less than half ) than every one who out scored and out assisted him? baffling…… he is no world class player sure, but he does create and has started to score goals.

If you consider 3 goals (2 in one game) and 3 assists good, well then yes he was. Given he is the main free kick and corner taker (when he is on the pitch) 3 and 3 is really not that hot.

If you consider 3 goals (2 in one game) and 3 assists good, well then yes he was. Given he is the main free kick and corner taker (when he is on the pitch) 3 and 3 is really not that hot.

for the mins he played yes, only Bertrand assisted more goals with over 2 x more mins and Tadic only scored more goals cause he was never dropped form the first team even though he played rubbish for 30 games of the 38 he played in the league. d?

Up side, he scored the same as Armstrong even though Armstrong played in a mickey mouse league . but lets not get into that, are best crosser who played less mins than all of are top assists and scorers.

If you are comparing like JWP scored and assisted 3 in 1.5 k mins...……..Tadic 3 assists and 6 goals in 3.5 k mins...…. but the latter here is a god to some of you yet 85 % of the season he didn't show up, but its ok cause its is Tadic. and yes JWP is are set piece taker, but seeing as he spent 60 % of all the premiership games on the bench, I would say his stats are pretty good, Tadic spent 98 % f all game time on the field yet failed to over shadow a player who hardly played

It must be that Saints web bias thing? Tadic 3 assist a god, JWP 3 assists not good

Doesn't matter if we have one a significantly better than the other !

Attack. If we go into the season with just the strikers we have it’s going to be a struggle. They must be lining someone up after getting shot of Carrillo.

Attack. If we go into the season with just the strikers we have it’s going to be a struggle. They must be lining someone up after getting shot of Carrillo.

Yes Carrillo will be a great loss if not replaced

Austin, ( injured more often than match fit ), and Long, ( his only 'strength' is winning freekicks, when he isn't offside ), are unlikely to reach double figures between them, so unless Gabbi miraculously turns into a 'worldie', we will again be fairly blunt up top. I think this is more of a worry than the defence, especially if Bertie finds his mojo again.

I think if you did a poll of what position people would like to strengthen most it would be up front so I think it's clear that that's where we need to sort first of all.

I was talking about his time in general as a saints player rather than half a season. He was one of my favourite players the last few seasons but if it makes you feel better.... Tadic was average?

If you really care about my feelings go for ‘infuriating’

The best form of defense is ATTACK.

Dilly Dilly

for the mins he played yes, only Bertrand assisted more goals with over 2 x more mins and Tadic only scored more goals cause he was never dropped form the first team even though he played rubbish for 30 games of the 38 he played in the league. d?

 

 

Up side, he scored the same as Armstrong even though Armstrong played in a mickey mouse league . but lets not get into that, are best crosser who played less mins than all of are top assists and scorers.

 

 

If you are comparing like JWP scored and assisted 3 in 1.5 k mins...……..Tadic 3 assists and 6 goals in 3.5 k mins...…. but the latter here is a god to some of you yet 85 % of the season he didn't show up, but its ok cause its is Tadic. and yes JWP is are set piece taker, but seeing as he spent 60 % of all the premiership games on the bench, I would say his stats are pretty good, Tadic spent 98 % f all game time on the field yet failed to over shadow a player who hardly played

 

 

It must be that Saints web bias thing? Tadic 3 assist a god, JWP 3 assists not good

Tadic is no god to me. Tadic was one of the triumvirate of Ams along with Boufal and Redmond who were the main reason for our awful season (along with our hopeless manager). A late flourish by Tadic helped improve his stock but I said during the season we should get rid of all three, and so far the club has at least achieved 2 out of 3. Back to the point, sorry but however you try to big him up JWP is never going to be more than a squad player for an average PL team. His goals and assists given his status as set piece taker is very poor, and that's why he is on the bench not because of it. Will be surprised if he is first choice under Hughes.

Neither are good enough, hence another season of struggle.

The best form of defense is ATTACK.

 

Dilly Dilly

bloody echo in here!!

I’m under the impression that playing 3 centre backs allows you to bomb two wingbacks down the flanks pumping crosses in the box.

This is where we have a problem as we often find Austin out on the flanks looking for the ball or Gabbi getting out jumped by the centre backs.

We should be setting up with Gabbi on the last man attacking the goal with his pace from around the half way line.

I’m under the impression that playing 3 centre backs allows you to bomb two wingbacks down the flanks pumping crosses in the box.

This is where we have a problem as we often find Austin out on the flanks looking for the ball or Gabbi getting out jumped by the centre backs.

We should be setting up with Gabbi on the last man attacking the goal with his pace from around the half way line.

with our players, I can't see how 3 at the back will suit us really

easy one - attack

teams have been happy to push up on us as they know we don't pose much of a threat. with better firepower we would also take the pressure off our defence

The best form of defense is ATTACK.

 

Dilly Dilly

Dilly dilly is so 2017.

easy one - attack

 

teams have been happy to push up on us as they know we don't pose much of a threat. with better firepower we would also take the pressure off our defence

We'd have more of threat if we went more direct. Last season we where awful at counter attacking inexplicably going backwards when a counter was on rather than risk losing the ball just looking to play the ball forward quicker would make us more of a threat against teams pushing up on us..

Tadic is no god to me. Tadic was one of the triumvirate of Ams along with Boufal and Redmond who were the main reason for our awful season (along with our hopeless manager). A late flourish by Tadic helped improve his stock but I said during the season we should get rid of all three, and so far the club has at least achieved 2 out of 3. Back to the point, sorry but however you try to big him up JWP is never going to be more than a squad player for an average PL team. His goals and assists given his status as set piece taker is very poor, and that's why he is on the bench not because of it. Will be surprised if he is first choice under Hughes.

oh believe me I am not saying JWP is good, he is no star, but, as seen with England, if you have ppl in the box who can put the ball in the net off corners and free kicks goals are sure to follow if the person providing the crosses can put a decent ball in which on are team JWP is the only decent crosser of the ball.

if you ask me out of every one on the Saints team who I would have taking free kicks and corners, it'll always be JWP and for this reason, he must be on the pitch as we have no fast players capable of beating the off side trap / making runs behind defensive having forwards / wingers who cant cross / finish with strikers who are not mobile and don't ever try to get between defenders ( but long who has more chance of hitting the corner flag from the spot than scoring goals )....., putting crosses into the box is the only thing you can do. all are recent good performances in the league came from being good at set plays / putting crosses into Pelle with Mane running behind defensive. we don't have any of that any more, why play a possession based game with players who cant beat any one is just stupidity.

Better to play from set plays / out wide getting crosses into the only striker we got who can finish ( Austin ) but he is not going to be out pacing any one so why play threw balls? its a waste of possession, better to just put a decent ball in and try get on the end of it.

a good team plays to its strength's a crap team just plays, we watched 2 seasons of crap trying to play a style that does not suit any one on the team but Tadic and we failed so badly it was embarrassing, and nearly got us relegated.

a good manager see's what the team is good at, and builds around it. we are crap at dribbling, poor at finishing pretty decent at headers and have one of the best dead ball takers in the league and how do we play, by making threw balls to slow arse forwards who cant run from a fart and would probs be out paced by a turtle with 1 leg.

Again before you or any one says it, JWP is not a very good attacking player, but what he can do, he does far better than any one else on the team, by quite a huge margin.

Go back and watch the highlights from last season, we was most dangerous when putting crosses into the box, we wasted time / passed around the back line while trying to make the killer threw ball to one of the slowest front lines in the league.

You cite England's proficiency from set pieces but look at the delivery from Young. Just floated in. Anyone can do that.

You cite England's proficiency from set pieces but look at the delivery from Young. Just floated in. Anyone can do that.

can they? Tadic got a huge 0 assist for us from corners and set plays, 0???? 0 man? can you see this... 0 assists. Bertrand got 4 from crosses into the box, JWP managed 3 off crosses and corners and free kicks in which he took the least out of all the players who took set plays for us last season.

England scored most of the goals at world cups from crosses into the box and penalties, young assisted just one goal which was a nice corner into the box that was not floated. go watch the goal.

Errr...attack. Anyone who thinks otherwise could not have watched us last season, even after Hughes rocked up.

Don't worry.....I'm sure Les and co will sort it out in the next 14 days.....

The best form of defense is ATTACK.

 

Dilly Dilly

Offence wins games, but defence wins Championships.

Errr...attack. Anyone who thinks otherwise could not have watched us last season, even after Hughes rocked up.

I watched us all last season my main take was ****ing ****e at defending we were. Seems like every time we took a lead we'd be pegged back within 10 minutes.

In the end we where terrible at both ends of the pitch and need to improve both to have a better season.

Don't worry.....I'm sure Les and co will sort it out in the next 14 days.....

I'm hopeful they'll have finally sussed it out before then. Oh wait, you said days not months.

We have five centre backs. Surely there are two amongst them that are half decent enough if we have to resort to a 4 at the back system. We also have 2 decent keepers at long last fighting to be first choice. I see enough defensively for us not to have a problem, so long as Cedric doesn't get a season ending injury.

Attack worries me more. The same strikers we limped to 37 goals with in the league last season, no Tadic and really only Redmond and Sims backing up Elyounoussi and Armstrong. Work is needed here in the next fortnight.

I agree with Egg though, we lack a dominant Wanyamaesque defensive midfielder too.

So pre-season is meaningless and all that but results so far are this pre-season are

Goals

For. Against

3. 3

3. 2

0. 3

2. 0

3. 2

So 11 scored and 10 conceded which kind of suggests the defence is more of an issue than scoring goals right now.

Least the games are exciting right? Or prefer the Puel'esq 1-0 wins?

So pre-season is meaningless and all that but results so far are this pre-season are... So 11 scored and 10 conceded which kind of suggests the defence is more of an issue than scoring goals right now.

I'm 50 / 50 if this is a symptom of a poor defense overall or not having the right players back in the squad and Sparky tinkering?

If we had Cedric back, plus Vestergaard from last night (who seemed to want to run the back three, trying to marshal them) and either Yoshi or Bednarek (playing how he did last season) then things would be a lot better.

I'm going with attack needing to be sorted. Long is ****e so we're hoping that Austin and Gabbi stay fit with Galagher as a sub, we've no Plan B up front?

As things stand the defence worries me more, less from a view that i think they are all bad players but more from a it seems like we are badly in need of getting to a settled set of starting centre backs who are in tune with eachother. That coupled with rumours of Targett leaving, meaning left back cover would be weaker & he's the one player to look ok at cover right back too.

Striking, Austin looks our settled first choice. Good to see Gabbi back & more involved. Also think Gallagher has tonnes of potential if we actually have the bravery to give him opportunities. My one qualm is the rumours surrounding us selling him when it seems obvious to me that if we want to lose an attacker it plainly should be long. Can't Elyounessi play up there too?