Results 1 to 33 of 33

Thread: Underperforming players for Saints

  1. #1

    Default Underperforming players for Saints

    Watching Tadic captaining Ajax this evening in the champions league and it got me thinking.

    Why do players underperform for us?
    VVD in his last season was nothing like he is for Liverpool, Mane is in the same bracket.

    Lemina is going to be class when he leaves and I reckon JWP would become a England regular if he went to Spurs.

    My message is our club is stale from the owners, directors and managers and I would love an overhaul.

  2. #2

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Pilchards View Post
    Watching Tadic captaining Ajax this evening in the champions league and it got me thinking.

    Why do players underperform for us?
    VVD in his last season was nothing like he is for Liverpool, Mane is in the same bracket.

    Lemina is going to be class when he leaves and I reckon JWP would become a England regular if he went to Spurs.

    My message is our club is stale from the owners, directors and managers and I would love an overhaul.

    He would for us if he got to play. im 100 % sure he would have more than 1 assist to his name to if he had 540 mins of game time so far this season.

    No wonder he looks royally ****ed atm

  3. #3

    Join Date
    Apr 2013
    Location
    Gotham City
    Posts
    26,145

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Pilchards View Post
    Watching Tadic captaining Ajax this evening in the champions league and it got me thinking.

    Why do players underperform for us?
    VVD in his last season was nothing like he is for Liverpool, Mane is in the same bracket.

    Lemina is going to be class when he leaves and I reckon JWP would become a England regular if he went to Spurs.

    My message is our club is stale from the owners, directors and managers and I would love an overhaul.
    they under perform for us as we have/had shyt managers..

    Our players largely didnt under perform for Poch and Koeman

  4. Default

    Average ability players will play average.

  5. #5

    Join Date
    Aug 2007
    Location
    WHAT?! The "land of the free?" Whoever told you that is your enemy!
    Posts
    17,394

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Mosin View Post
    He would for us if he got to play. im 100 % sure he would have more than 1 assist to his name to if he had 540 mins of game time so far this season.

    No wonder he looks royally ****ed atm
    what JWP? I might suggest there are better ways to impress a manager than giving away a needless injury time penalty..

  6. #6

    Join Date
    Aug 2007
    Location
    WHAT?! The "land of the free?" Whoever told you that is your enemy!
    Posts
    17,394

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Pilchards View Post
    Watching Tadic captaining Ajax this evening in the champions league and it got me thinking.

    Why do players underperform for us?
    VVD in his last season was nothing like he is for Liverpool, Mane is in the same bracket.

    Lemina is going to be class when he leaves and I reckon JWP would become a England regular if he went to Spurs.

    My message is our club is stale from the owners, directors and managers and I would love an overhaul.
    uuuummm maybe its because they are playing in better teams, with better players and winning most of the time which breeds confidence...I imagine Salah, Kane or Eden Hazard would look half the player if they played in the current saints squad.

  7. #7

    Join Date
    Nov 2006
    Location
    100 miles south-east of Newport
    Posts
    28,731
    Blog Entries
    14

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Pilchards View Post
    Watching Tadic captaining Ajax this evening in the champions league and it got me thinking.

    Why do players underperform for us?
    VVD in his last season was nothing like he is for Liverpool, Mane is in the same bracket.

    Lemina is going to be class when he leaves and I reckon JWP would become a England regular if he went to Spurs.

    My message is our club is stale from the owners, directors and managers and I would love an overhaul.
    Van Dijk underperformed because he wanted to be somewhere else. Mane's performance level was fine in his last season, even considering that. Lemina seems hugely overrated to me based on every performance since the LAST time we played Palace, and Ward-Prowse is at exactly the level he should be and wouldn't be any better anywhere else - though I do think putting him back in CM with a more defensive role would improve his impact on the team.

    The fact everyone worked out how to play against our system after 2 years doesn't help, and that was 2 years ago.

    If you'd put Forster, Bertrand and Romeu on the list I'd say it was more accurate of current levels as all of them have been better. The others (e.g. Lemina, Hojbjerg, Redmond, Cedric, Gabbiadini) have all been better on occasion but their form has always fluctuated.

    The policy of signing flawed players in the hope we can mask their deficiencies isn't working as well as it did when we also used to sign excellent players who just needed matches to increase their value.

  8. #8

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by doddisalegend View Post
    what JWP? I might suggest there are better ways to impress a manager than giving away a needless injury time penalty..
    like in his first game creating 5 scoring chances while Redmond created none but gets dropped for next game any way? yep surely a perfectly good reason to try your best when it don't matter any way.


    But still, I would question why the 2nd smallest player on the pitch was told by the biggest players on are team to mark the biggest player on their team. makes perfect sense. Bad organization from are defence / bad management. JWP should never have been marking him to start with.

  9. #9

    Default

    Could be many factors, Poor manager instruction, poor coaching setup or the players we have currently are just average? How many managers
    have we had with this current spine of team? Maybe Managers are not getting the best out of these players because the players themselves
    are just not up to pushing forwards.

    Look at our team who inspires you? who has passion? guts? leaders? players with a bit of desire and fight? dress it up all you want lads
    we have a team full of pansies. Where are the Rickie Lamberts? week in week out giving it 100%.......

    I have been saying it for two seasons now this squad is rubbish. I have been laughed at, ridiculed for my views call me a negative nancy I
    prefer being realistic we have a club with no clear direction. An illusive Owner who hasn't come forwards and given us a vision. We have two
    donkeys who should of been fired. Our scouting setup is all wrong we are chancing going for players that have been missing in the past and have
    gambled on the fact they will come good... Of our recent signings who has been prolific?

    To many average players starting weekly again call me negative but I would of sold the likes of Austin, Ward Prowse, Davis, Long, Redmond
    I don't rate any of them they are either to lightweight, to inconsistent, or have no end product. Why are we wasting our time holding on
    to average players in a hope they will come good? get rid keep moving forwards!

    That's the problem with this current crop of players they are gutless. Soon as the opposition score they bury heads in sand and give up
    somebody needs to instill some fight and passion in these boys.

  10. #10

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Batman View Post
    they under perform for us as we have/had shyt managers..

    Our players largely didnt under perform for Poch and Koeman
    Exactly this, Romeu was sensational under the guidance of a world class manager but he's been poor since. Gabbiadini too.

    Cedric has been poor forever although under Hughes he's probably playing as well as he has done since he's been here, which is encouraging. Redmond as well.

  11. #11

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Pamplemousse View Post
    Exactly this, Romeu was sensational under the guidance of a world class manager but he's been poor since. Gabbiadini too.

    Cedric has been poor forever although under Hughes he's probably playing as well as he has done since he's been here, which is encouraging. Redmond as well.
    2 out of 25 - Hughes in!!!

  12. #12

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by ally_uk View Post
    Could be many factors, Poor manager instruction, poor coaching setup or the players we have currently are just average? How many managers
    have we had with this current spine of team? Maybe Managers are not getting the best out of these players because the players themselves
    are just not up to pushing forwards.

    Look at our team who inspires you? who has passion? guts? leaders? players with a bit of desire and fight? dress it up all you want lads
    we have a team full of pansies. Where are the Rickie Lamberts? week in week out giving it 100%.......

    I have been saying it for two seasons now this squad is rubbish. I have been laughed at, ridiculed for my views call me a negative nancy I
    prefer being realistic we have a club with no clear direction. An illusive Owner who hasn't come forwards and given us a vision. We have two
    donkeys who should of been fired. Our scouting setup is all wrong we are chancing going for players that have been missing in the past and have
    gambled on the fact they will come good... Of our recent signings who has been prolific?

    To many average players starting weekly again call me negative but I would of sold the likes of Austin, Ward Prowse, Davis, Long, Redmond
    I don't rate any of them they are either to lightweight, to inconsistent, or have no end product. Why are we wasting our time holding on
    to average players in a hope they will come good? get rid keep moving forwards!

    That's the problem with this current crop of players they are gutless. Soon as the opposition score they bury heads in sand and give up
    somebody needs to instill some fight and passion in these boys.

    Great written piece and spot on.
    Problem is you can’t sell the average ones if nobody wants them?
    Forster is a fine example as nobody would touch him with a barge pole.

  13. #13

    Join Date
    Nov 2006
    Location
    Norwich
    Posts
    9,913
    Blog Entries
    1

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by ally_uk View Post
    Could be many factors, Poor manager instruction, poor coaching setup or the players we have currently are just average? How many managers
    have we had with this current spine of team? Maybe Managers are not getting the best out of these players because the players themselves
    are just not up to pushing forwards.

    Look at our team who inspires you? who has passion? guts? leaders? players with a bit of desire and fight? dress it up all you want lads
    we have a team full of pansies. Where are the Rickie Lamberts? week in week out giving it 100%.......

    I have been saying it for two seasons now this squad is rubbish. I have been laughed at, ridiculed for my views call me a negative nancy I
    prefer being realistic we have a club with no clear direction. An illusive Owner who hasn't come forwards and given us a vision. We have two
    donkeys who should of been fired. Our scouting setup is all wrong we are chancing going for players that have been missing in the past and have
    gambled on the fact they will come good... Of our recent signings who has been prolific?

    To many average players starting weekly again call me negative but I would of sold the likes of Austin, Ward Prowse, Davis, Long, Redmond
    I don't rate any of them they are either to lightweight, to inconsistent, or have no end product. Why are we wasting our time holding on
    to average players in a hope they will come good? get rid keep moving forwards!

    That's the problem with this current crop of players they are gutless. Soon as the opposition score they bury heads in sand and give up
    somebody needs to instill some fight and passion in these boys.
    Not ridiculed by me.

  14. #14

    Default

    Back in August 2009, the signing of Rickie Lambert gave us threat and a focal point. It didn’t give us on-field leadership, though. That was Dean Hammond. We were always tougher to beat with him on the pitch, shouting and organising, regardless of the situation. We simply don’t have that sort of character at the moment. Bertrand is captain by default, really. The January transfer window needs to address this, as well as the obvious need for an upgrade on Shane Long.

  15. #15

    Join Date
    Nov 2006
    Location
    Northam / Poletrix
    Posts
    859

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Unbelievable Jeff View Post
    2 out of 25 - Hughes in!!!
    Did Hughes **** your Mrs or something? Every time anyone ever date anything remotely hinting at a positive slant towards Hughes you sneeringly jump all over it. Starting to make yourself look silly

  16. #16

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by St Lej View Post
    Did Hughes **** your Mrs or something? Every time anyone ever date anything remotely hinting at a positive slant towards Hughes you sneeringly jump all over it. Starting to make yourself look silly
    I think he's ****, and if we keep him we will get relegated. That's all.

  17. Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Unbelievable Jeff View Post
    I think he's ****, and if we keep him we will get relegated. That's all.
    Thanks for making your view clear at last. Mark Hughes may not be the best Manager on the planet - but, U. Jeff, do you really believe that someone like Pep G. would have this group of players performing much better? Do you really think someone like Pep would get more out of Long, Austin, Ward-Prowse, Stephens, Davis, Hoedt, Forster?

  18. #18

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by austsaint View Post
    Thanks for making your view clear at last. Mark Hughes may not be the best Manager on the planet - but, U. Jeff, do you really believe that someone like Pep G. would have this group of players performing much better? Do you really think someone like Pep would get more out of Long, Austin, Ward-Prowse, Stephens, Davis, Hoedt, Forster?
    Yes I do.
    Confidence and coaching is the two things a great manager provides.
    Koeman got good things from average players.

  19. Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Pilchards View Post
    Yes I do.
    Confidence and coaching is the two things a great manager provides.
    Koeman got good things from average players.
    You make a fair point, although I remember many calling for Koeman's head after 10 games or so without a win. Koeman had Mane, Pelle, Clyne, Tadic, Morgan, Toby, Fonte and Vic at his disposal.....bit of a difference.

  20. #20

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by austsaint View Post
    Thanks for making your view clear at last. Mark Hughes may not be the best Manager on the planet - but, U. Jeff, do you really believe that someone like Pep G. would have this group of players performing much better? Do you really think someone like Pep would get more out of Long, Austin, Ward-Prowse, Stephens, Davis, Hoedt, Forster?
    Yes, 1,000,000 percent.

  21. Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Unbelievable Jeff View Post
    Yes, 1,000,000 percent.
    Yet their performances over several seasons do not support your high vote of confidence.

  22. #22

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by austsaint View Post
    Yet their performances over several seasons do not support your high vote of confidence.
    But why, our Managers haven't been good enough? Puel (average manager - players were OK). Pellegrino and Hughes (poor manager - players were/are poor). It 100% supports my statement.

  23. #23

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Chap in the Chapel View Post
    ... the signing of Rickie Lambert gave us threat and a focal point. It didn’t give us on-field leadership, though. That was Dean Hammond.
    I'm so behind you on this, so far this season we've missed a real captain and it shows.

    I've seen Vestergaard try a few times, but that seems to have dropped off, and Bertrand is no captain. I bang on about Yoshi but he has a positive influence when he plays that I think we massively underestimate the value of.

  24. #24

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Fatboy40 View Post
    I'm so behind you on this, so far this season we've missed a real captain and it shows.

    I've seen Vestergaard try a few times, but that seems to have dropped off, and Bertrand is no captain. I bang on about Yoshi but he has a positive influence when he plays that I think we massively underestimate the value of.
    Don't disagree with that. He's also our second best CB, no idea why Hughes can't see this (well, I do have an idea).

  25. #25

    Join Date
    Nov 2006
    Location
    100 miles south-east of Newport
    Posts
    28,731
    Blog Entries
    14

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by austsaint View Post
    Thanks for making your view clear at last. Mark Hughes may not be the best Manager on the planet - but, U. Jeff, do you really believe that someone like Pep G. would have this group of players performing much better? Do you really think someone like Pep would get more out of Long, Austin, Ward-Prowse, Stephens, Davis, Hoedt, Forster?
    Weird question, I would imagine everyone probably thinks Guardiola's system and detailed coaching would probably get better results. Many of those individuals could be coached to fit into the current City team and not look out of place. Probably not Long or the defenders, and definitely not Forster as he's not a sweeper. Guardiola's system is built upon excellent players retaining possession in an excessively attacking team though. It remains a question whether that system works with less than world class players as Guardiola hasn't managed a team without world class players, but I certainly wouldn't immediately say detailed coaching in a different system wouldn't improve the team and/or results.

  26. #26

    Join Date
    Nov 2006
    Location
    Fighting Messageboard injustice, Everywhere
    Posts
    2,540

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by The9 View Post
    Weird question, I would imagine everyone probably thinks Guardiola's system and detailed coaching would probably get better results. Many of those individuals could be coached to fit into the current City team and not look out of place. Probably not Long or the defenders, and definitely not Forster as he's not a sweeper. Guardiola's system is built upon excellent players retaining possession in an excessively attacking team though. It remains a question whether that system works with less than world class players as Guardiola hasn't managed a team without world class players, but I certainly wouldn't immediately say detailed coaching in a different system wouldn't improve the team and/or results.
    I know it won't happen, but I would dearly love a truly World Class manager like Pep or Jose, so say thye are so convinced in heir coaching ability, they will take on a club like Saints (with our existing budgets) and achieve success.

  27. #27

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Faz View Post
    I know it won't happen, but I would dearly love a truly World Class manager like Pep or Jose, so say thye are so convinced in heir coaching ability, they will take on a club like Saints (with our existing budgets) and achieve success.
    I find it strange that we spoke to Tuchel and then we employed the crap we did.

  28. #28

    Join Date
    Nov 2006
    Location
    Dining room table
    Posts
    12,097

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Pilchards View Post
    I find it strange that we spoke to Tuchel and then we employed the crap we did.
    Probably because he turned us down.

  29. #29

    Join Date
    Aug 2007
    Location
    WHAT?! The "land of the free?" Whoever told you that is your enemy!
    Posts
    17,394

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Pilchards View Post
    I find it strange that we spoke to Tuchel and then we employed the crap we did.


    Because Tuchel didn't want to come to club like saints his stock was high he just needed to wait on a good offer which why he is now at PSG.



    Saints aren't going to sign any good managers at the top of their game. We are a club who will either get a relative unknown, with the risks that brings. Any better known names we get will either be looking to rebuild their reputation after a bad spell or looking for a last payday.

    Quite often on here people pluck names of managers out of the air and just assume they would be gagging to manage the mighty Southampton.
    Last edited by doddisalegend; 20-09-2018 at 12:47 PM.

  30. Default

    Even Pep loses at home and star players won't sign a new contract ..................

  31. #31

    Default

    Have to say that watching the game today (at 1080p so not a blurry postage stamp mess) what is Bertrand bringing to the game as the teams captain? Yes he has experience but he's no leader.

    I'm not sure we've a natural leader in the squad at the moment, or at least in the usual starting 11 that Hughes picks?

  32. #32

    Join Date
    Dec 2017
    Location
    Norway
    Posts
    230

    Default

    Problem is at the top and sinks to the bottom onto the pitch.

  33. #33

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Fatboy40 View Post
    Have to say that watching the game today (at 1080p so not a blurry postage stamp mess) what is Bertrand bringing to the game as the teams captain? Yes he has experience but he's no leader.

    I'm not sure we've a natural leader in the squad at the moment, or at least in the usual starting 11 that Hughes picks?
    He is one of the most influential players on the pitch, He is always one of the most creative and always works hard, we don't have any 1 that is not a starter who could be captain, only 3 other players JWP = crap + Plus he is not fast enough and cant dribble so mandatory he does not play as he cant excite every one with his running to the by line to do nothing, Steven Davis = Crap ( past it ) and Yoshida who for some reason, MH don't like yet every fan can see is probably are best central defender.


    Just be grateful Bertrand is playing, he is are most creative player so far this season ( And last season lol ), might be good to move him to LM and have Targett as LB to free him up to be more offensive.

Bookmarks

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •