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Thread: Hughes OUT

  1. #51

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    Quote Originally Posted by shurlock View Post
    Nor is it a good portent to prep and play 3 at the back all preseason and then ditch it after only 45 mins.
    Quote Originally Posted by Wes Tender View Post
    I quite agree. At the very least for away matches it should be an option
    Did you see it though. 3 at the back against Burnley and we looked absolutely woeful. I was sh itting myself after the first hour of the season, we really did look that bad.

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  2. #52

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    Quote Originally Posted by Patrick Bateman View Post
    Newcastle and Benitez want to part company ... he'll do.
    Good manager but he needs good players and money to do his stuff, we have neither of those to offer him. Better off where he is right now, bigger fan base, maybe a chance that Ashby will sell.

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  3. #53

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    I think it is wrong to blame Hughes.
    To me the black box can pump out as much information as it wants but unless you have analysts who can read/assess the information you may as well not have it.
    From what I can see with the players coming in or through the acadamy we havent got anyone left with an eye for that unpolished diamond.
    Perhaps the best transfer would be to get paul mitchell back on board ot ( i cant recal his name) the man in charge who was here when lowe was here, he left to join the FA and I had a feeling he went to Fulham. That is where we need to invest and quickly, Reed has done the damage and we need him replced

  4. #54

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    Quote Originally Posted by Suhari View Post
    I mentioned it on the match thread: our players look fat.
    One of the things I expressed concern about with Hughes at the start of the season, along with his sides being a bit shaky defensively (not quite as adamant on this as Jeff, ha), was that Stoke always got the season off to a stinker. That suggested to me a lack of fitness or preparation, and something we could ill afford with our fairly nice start to the season. And yet here we are.

    When I looked at our next 4 games, including Wolves, I thought 5 or 6 points would be good. Win one and either win or draw the others from matches against Bournemouth, Newcastle & Wolves, accepting a defeat vs Chelsea. One down, three to go.

    Even if I might think he deserves the sack after those games however, doesn't mean I think it will cure the sickness of Southampton FC.

  5. #55

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    Get rid please. Just don’t appoint fat Sam.

  6. #56

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    I don't blame Hughes. It is the fault of the Board and the rot started years ago as I called at the time.

  7. Default

    Hughes is an absolute dinosaur and has not got a clue. OUr younger players who have an affinity for the club do not get a look in (STephens, JWP, Sims, Targett, Gallagher) yet the same failures play week in week out. And don't get me started on the 2 donkeys at CB who start ahead of Yoshi and Jack.

    We are abysmal, unfit and have no clue. Austin - ffs. And if not Austin 2 goals in 60+ games SHane Long.

    Going to be a long, hard season and I just hope Hughes walks/is fired in the next 2-3 weeks.

  8. #58

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    Quote Originally Posted by washsaint View Post
    Hughes is an absolute dinosaur and has not got a clue. OUr younger players who have an affinity for the club do not get a look in (STephens, JWP, Sims, Targett, Gallagher) yet the same failures play week in week out. And don't get me started on the 2 donkeys at CB who start ahead of Yoshi and Jack.

    We are abysmal, unfit and have no clue. Austin - ffs. And if not Austin 2 goals in 60+ games SHane Long.

    Going to be a long, hard season and I just hope Hughes walks/is fired in the next 2-3 weeks.
    JWP, Sims, Targett, Gallagher have been constantly not picked by managers, they are not good enough.


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  9. #59

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    Quote Originally Posted by Cabbage_Face View Post
    JWP, Sims, Targett, Gallagher have been constantly not picked by managers, they are not good enough.


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    Pottychino and Klippity would of put them in as they know how to bring kids into a team.
    Thats something we used to do years ago.

  10. #60

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    OK so that's 3 managers now the fans want out. The problem is clearly coming from elsewhere. Shyt board and shyt players. Rafa couldn't sort this mess out. New ownership and new board needed first. Hopefully relegation this season could bring gao and kat to sell us to someone with ambition.

  11. #61

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    Quote Originally Posted by Pilchards View Post
    Pottychino and Klippity would of put them in as they know how to bring kids into a team.
    Thats something we used to do years ago.
    I doubt it, Targett wouldn’t get ahead of Spurs or Liverpool’s current LB, Gallagher wouldn’t get infront of there strikers. All average championship players


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  12. #62

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    Hughes isn’t totally to blame although I worry about his tactical skills and he hasn’t managed to rectify our defensive issues. But bang average player recruitment is the main problem. Reed is only interested in rough diamonds who he thinks he can sell on at a huge profit. This season we needed some experience and a leader to captain the team. There are no leaders in that team. We also lack pace and creativity.

    Basically whilst the club has a clueless and detached owner, two gutless muppets in reed and Krueger who only appear when the goings good and a manager who can’t sort out this team we deserve what we get.

  13. #63

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    Quote Originally Posted by Cabbage_Face View Post
    I doubt it, Targett wouldn’t get ahead of Spurs or Liverpool’s current LB, Gallagher wouldn’t get infront of there strikers. All average championship players


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    The young kids at Liverpool and Spurs have been coached to become better players.
    Thats the breakdown as our guys are not being coached and are becoming average squad players because of it.
    I’m telling you that Targett, McQueen and Gallagher would feature in the current Liverpool and Spurs team if they had at least two years under a decent coaching team.

  14. #64

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    Quote Originally Posted by Pilchards View Post
    The young kids at Liverpool and Spurs have been coached to become better players.
    Thats the breakdown as our guys are not being coached and are becoming average squad players because of it.
    I’m telling you that Targett, McQueen and Gallagher would feature in the current Liverpool and Spurs team if they had at least two years under a decent coaching team.
    Why haven’t Liverpool or Spurs signed them then?


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  15. #65

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    Quote Originally Posted by Pilchards View Post
    The young kids at Liverpool and Spurs have been coached to become better players.
    Thats the breakdown as our guys are not being coached and are becoming average squad players because of it.
    I’m telling you that Targett, McQueen and Gallagher would feature in the current Liverpool and Spurs team if they had at least two years under a decent coaching team.
    Would it be Mane, Salah or Firmino that loses out to Gallagher?

  16. #66

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    Quote Originally Posted by benjii View Post
    Would it be Mane, Salah or Firmino that loses out to Gallagher?
    Or Kane, Lamela, Erickson or Ali? Our fans sometimes


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  17. #67

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    Let's stop scapegoating managers. 3 in a row have been the victims of poor recruitment/squad management. Reed & Wilson need to go.

  18. Default

    The three posts immediately above in response to Pilchard's post, are the gold standard in debunking the "our players are good enough/it must be the Manager" belief. Most of our players are average....they haven't been coached to become average. Reed, Wilson and Kreuger are the architects of our mediocre recruitment and squad management, and should be held to account.

  19. #69

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    Quote Originally Posted by striker View Post
    I actually like Hughes. IMO he's much better than MP, we just don't have that much talent. He'll figure something out and we'll slide by around #15
    Exactly this. Give him some time. As long as we don't get in the same state as last year it's time not to change yet. At least we are having a go with two up front. Much better to watch. Interested in the Ralph/Hughes thing though - interesting.

  20. #70

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    We lost a great owner (Markus Liebbherr) and the replacements have not been anywhere near as good.
    We lost a great MD (Cortese) and his replacement has not been anywhere near as good.
    We have lost some great managers (Poch and Koeman) and their replacements have not been anywhere near as good.
    We have lost some great academy and player recruitment staff (inc. Georges Prost, Huw Jennings, Malcolm Elias, Paul Mitchell & Matt Crocker) and their more recent replacements have not been anywhere near as good.
    We have lost some good players and their replacements have not been anywhere near as good.

    Overall it is a shocking tale of decline which can be seen in every area of the club. That having been said...

    * Hughes is an improvement on Pellegrino - though he would not have been my preference this summer when appointing a new manager.
    * Lemina was great when he first joined us and somewhere in there there is a good player waiting to re-emerge. Good coaching and management could help him rediscover that form.
    * Hojbjerg has been one of our better players in some matches within the past six months, so some of the criticisms of him are a little unfair.
    * Hoedt is still young and despite everything does still have potential as a defender - if only he could benefit from good coaching and a little more encouragement to rebuild his confidence.
    * Bednarek started badly for Saints at the start of last season but did well at the end of last season and deserves to be given a chance.
    * Romeu was good for us under Koeman and even under Puel - good coaching and management could help him to rediscover that ability and form.
    * Gabbi started well with Saints - good coaching and management could help him rediscover that form.
    * Austin started well with Saints - good coaching and management could help him rediscover that form.
    * Ings started well with Saints - good coaching and management could help him rediscover that form.
    * Redmond started well with Saints - good coaching and management could help him rediscover that form.
    * Cedric was part of the successful Portugese Euro 2016 squad - good coaching and management could help him rediscover that form.
    * Bertrand is a quality full-back and was unlucky to lose his international place - good coaching and management could help him rediscover that form.
    * Targett had a great season last year at Fulham - good coaching and management could help him rediscover that form.
    * Some other youngsters have previously shown promise - good coaching and management could help them rediscover that form.

  21. #71

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    Quote Originally Posted by SaintJackoInHurworth View Post
    We lost a great owner (Markus Liebbherr) and the replacements have not been anywhere near as good.
    We lost a great MD (Cortese) and his replacement has not been anywhere near as good.
    We have lost some great managers (Poch and Koeman) and their replacements have not been anywhere near as good.
    We have lost some great academy and player recruitment staff (inc. Georges Prost, Huw Jennings, Malcolm Elias, Paul Mitchell & Matt Crocker) and their more recent replacements have not been anywhere near as good.
    We have lost some good players and their replacements have not been anywhere near as good.

    Overall it is a shocking tale of decline which can be seen in every area of the club. That having been said...

    * Hughes is an improvement on Pellegrino - though he would not have been my preference this summer when appointing a new manager.
    * Lemina was great when he first joined us and somewhere in there there is a good player waiting to re-emerge. Good coaching and management could help him rediscover that form.
    * Hojbjerg has been one of our better players in some matches within the past six months, so some of the criticisms of him are a little unfair.
    * Hoedt is still young and despite everything does still have potential as a defender - if only he could benefit from good coaching and a little more encouragement to rebuild his confidence.
    * Bednarek started badly for Saints at the start of last season but did well at the end of last season and deserves to be given a chance.
    * Romeu was good for us under Koeman and even under Puel - good coaching and management could help him to rediscover that ability and form.
    * Gabbi started well with Saints - good coaching and management could help him rediscover that form.
    * Austin started well with Saints - good coaching and management could help him rediscover that form.
    * Ings started well with Saints - good coaching and management could help him rediscover that form.
    * Redmond started well with Saints - good coaching and management could help him rediscover that form.
    * Cedric was part of the successful Portugese Euro 2016 squad - good coaching and management could help him rediscover that form.
    * Bertrand is a quality full-back and was unlucky to lose his international place - good coaching and management could help him rediscover that form.
    * Targett had a great season last year at Fulham - good coaching and management could help him rediscover that form.
    * Some other youngsters have previously shown promise - good coaching and management could help them rediscover that form.

    Well said...

    And our players are no longer being coached by the right management.
    If the first team management can’t coach then it will filter through to the rest of the club.
    IMHO Davis and Jaidi don’t cut it and probably the rest of them too.

    Would not surprise me if we have a gambling or drinking culture somewhere?

  22. #72

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    I don’t like what I’m seeing from Hughes (his tacticsc, formation & team selection leave me scratching my head) but the core problem is at board level. This is the third manager in a row who looks poor and the quality of the first xi has declined significantly in the last few seasons. It’s ridiculous that there weren’t changes at corporate level at the end of last season. We’re heading in one direction and it isn’t up.

  23. #73

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    Default Hughes OUT

    Honestly can’t blame the manager now, we’ve had three managers try and sort these players out. This is down to who is signing these players and not moving on the dead wood.

    Players like
    Hoedt
    Stephens
    Targett
    McQueen
    Reed
    Davis
    Jwp
    Austin
    Gallagher
    Forster

    Let these players go, free up some wage and stop clinging to the hope they might come good.


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  24. #74

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    I don't like the immediate-success that the premier league craves, but equally I don't accept that Hughes is not to blame because he has inherited most of the players.

    He has had the luxury of selling 1 player in the summer and buying £50m quids worth of "talent".

    He didn't buy particularly well, and he still thinks Austin is a better footballer than Gabbi and for that alone, I would make him walk the plank.

    But, I agree with the sentiment in this post, the problem really lies above Hughes and it is Gao/Reed/Kruger who need to be looking in the mirror.

    I would far sooner see "Gao out" banners adorning St Mary's, than "Hughes out".

  25. #75

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    Quote Originally Posted by Cabbage_Face View Post
    Honestly can’t blame the manager now, we’ve had three managers try and sort these players out. This is down to who is signing these players and not moving on the dead wood.

    Players like
    Hoedt
    Stephens
    Targett
    McQueen
    Reed
    Davis
    Jwp
    Austin
    Gallagher
    Forster

    Let these players go, free up some wage and stop clinging to the hope they might come good.


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    Of course you can blame the Manager. He's doing a worse job than the last one, and the last one was rated as our worst Manager ever.

  26. #76

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    Quote Originally Posted by Pilchards View Post
    Pottychino and Klippity would of put them in as they know how to bring kids into a team.
    Thats something we used to do years ago.
    Do you realise that everything you said is voided by your decision to use comedy names.

  27. #77

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    The current squad are the biggest bunch of pussies we've had in a long while. Hoedt is an utter disgrace, less said about that absolute car crash, the better. The following need to be offloaded

    Hoedt
    Stephens
    Romeu
    Davis
    Long
    Austin
    Hesketh
    Sims
    Gallagher
    Prowse
    McQueen
    Targett
    Reed
    Forster

    I'm sure there's more. It a bloated squad of mostly utter, utter dross.

  28. #78

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    Quote Originally Posted by Fan The Flames View Post
    Do you realise that everything you said is voided by your decision to use comedy names.
    It’s because I can’t spell one of them.

  29. #79

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    Quote Originally Posted by bazza View Post
    I don’t like what I’m seeing from Hughes (his tacticsc, formation & team selection leave me scratching my head) but the core problem is at board level. This is the third manager in a row who looks poor and the quality of the first xi has declined significantly in the last few seasons. It’s ridiculous that there weren’t changes at corporate level at the end of last season. We’re heading in one direction and it isn’t up.
    Screams of Villa before relegation.

  30. #80

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    Was never a big fan of Hughes appointment, but how many managers can we blame??

    Some "1st team" players are completely inadequate. Our central defender partnership is probably our worst since league 1 with Hoet being terrible! Gabbi and Long can't score, Austiin out of form and Ings yet to prove himself after time on the sidelines.

    It's all very well keeping possession and looking strong, but if we don't have a regular goal scorer and woeful defenders we're in trouble

  31. Default

    Quote Originally Posted by darren2 View Post
    Was never a big fan of Hughes appointment, but how many managers can we blame??

    Some "1st team" players are completely inadequate. Our central defender partnership is probably our worst since league 1 with Hoet being terrible! Gabbi and Long can't score, Austiin out of form and Ings yet to prove himself after time on the sidelines.

    It's all very well keeping possession and looking strong, but if we don't have a regular goal scorer and woeful defenders we're in trouble
    Puel got a back 4 of Stephens , Maya, Cedric & Bertrand playing ok, even with Lurch in nets. Puel got Gabbi to score, regularly. Of course he upset the little darlings, and bored the fans. Long time before we see 8th again, let alone a cup final.


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  32. #82

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    People say its the players not the manager, but IMO just look at Burnley and what a manager can do with an average bunch of players. 7th last year, Europa league gave them a slow start but they seem to be up and running now.

    How many Burnley players man for man would you pick for our squad? They are disciplined, hard working, have good shape, know what their jobs are and play greater than the sum of our parts. Vokes scored his 2nd goal in 30 league games today, and he's been one their main strikers. Lowton and Taylor are championship full backs, they are playing Villa reject Westwood in centre-mid, he's managed to rejuvenate Aaron Lennon and they are playing Vydra up front who is a 1 in 3 championship scorer.

    Has any of our last 3 managers got these players to perform even at their standard? With good shape, discipline, hard work, teamwork? Not IMO, we still have some good players, we have bought decent players. The likes of Lemina, Hoedt, Mo, Vestergaard have played champions league football in their early 20s, they can't be as bad as they are showing.

    IMO Hughes just doesn't know what to do, he is not tactically sound, I mean going to Wolves away with a 4-4-2 when they have Neves and Jao Mountinho in midfield? really?

    We need a manager that makes these players work hard, have good discipline, good shape and know what their jobs are, at the moment they don't look like a team in the slightest.
    Last edited by tajjuk; 30-09-2018 at 06:44 PM.

  33. Default

    Hughes quote after the game :
    'Frustration is the emotion we are feeling,’ he said. ‘You can stick with individuals for so long but you might have to make a change to stimulate the group'

    About F***ing time !

  34. #84

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    Quote Originally Posted by tajjuk View Post
    We need a manager that makes these players work hard, have good discipline, good shape and know what their jobs are, at the moment they don't look like a team in the slightest.
    Don't disagree, but who is that man, would he want to come to Saints as we are ?

    Above all, do you have confidence in Reed identifying the right candidate, and going for him ?

  35. #85

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    Quote Originally Posted by Lord Duckhunter View Post
    Puel got a back 4 of Stephens , Maya, Cedric & Bertrand playing ok, even with Lurch in nets. Puel got Gabbi to score, regularly. Of course he upset the little darlings, and bored the fans. Long time before we see 8th again, let alone a cup final.


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    I really cannot believe the love-in for Puel. Until MP took over it was the most boring team performances that I had seen in around 60 years of watching Saints. The fact that SMS was virtually empty for the team walk-round on the last game of that season says a lot. If we had employed an upgrade on Puel, he would be just a bad memory but because we had MP and MH the rose tinted specs have come out and his season with us is being viewed as "the Good Old Days"....

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  36. #86

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    Quote Originally Posted by kyle04 View Post
    Hughes quote after the game :
    'Frustration is the emotion we are feeling,’ he said. ‘You can stick with individuals for so long but you might have to make a change to stimulate the group'

    About F***ing time !
    Depends which individuals he means, knowingly or luck he'll drop Hoi for Davis...!

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  37. Default Hughes OUT

    Quote Originally Posted by miserableoldgit View Post
    I really cannot believe the love-in for Puel. Until MP took over it was the most boring team performances that I had seen in around 60 years of watching Saints. The fact that SMS was virtually empty for the team walk-round on the last game of that season says a lot. If we had employed an upgrade on Puel, he would be just a bad memory but because we had MP and MH the rose tinted specs have come out and his season with us is being viewed as "the Good Old Days"....

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    It’s not rose tinted specs or hindsight from me. I’ve said all along that he did a bloody good job with an extremely average group of players. Nothing I’ve seen since has convinced me otherwise.

    Your view that it was the most boring team performances in 60 years shows that it is you whose memory is playing tricks . Whilst not exactly setting the world alight, there were some cracking performances under Puel, particularly away from home. If 8th and a cup final is a bad memory, I’d brace yourself for more and more disappointment and a decade of shocking memories to come ( here come the “worst 8th in football history” posts) .




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    Last edited by Lord Duckhunter; 30-09-2018 at 07:29 PM.

  38. #88

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    Quote Originally Posted by Lord Duckhunter View Post
    It’s not rose tinted specs or hindsight from me. I’ve said all along that he did a bloody good job with an extremely average group of players. Nothing I’ve seen since has convinced me otherwise.

    Your view that it was the most boring team performances in 60 years shows that it is you whose memory is playing tricks . Whilst not exactly setting the world alight, there were some cracking performances under Puel, particularly away from home. If 8th and a cup final is a bad memory, I’d brace yourself for more and more disappointment and a decade of shocking memories to come ( here come the “worst 8th in football history” posts) .




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    You are wasting your breath Lord D. The Puel out brigade will never ever accept your arguments, and most of them never saw away games anyway. They just spat their dummies out because of some boring end of season fixtures including a bizarre three home games in May at the end of a 50 game season.

    Meanwhile Puel took over at Leicester when they were below us last year, they finished 9th and we nearly went down. And this season? Not exactly imploding up there is it. To many fans, Saints losing Pelle, Mane, Wanyama before Puel took over and VVD for half a season is simply small detail that can be brushed away in the face of a totally unacceptable return of 8th in the Premier League and a cup final reached by failing to concede a single goal to all PL opposition. Shocking under performance

  39. #89

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    Quote Originally Posted by miserableoldgit View Post
    I really cannot believe the love-in for Puel. Until MP took over it was the most boring team performances that I had seen in around 60 years of watching Saints. The fact that SMS was virtually empty for the team walk-round on the last game of that season says a lot. If we had employed an upgrade on Puel, he would be just a bad memory but because we had MP and MH the rose tinted specs have come out and his season with us is being viewed as "the Good Old Days"....

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    It's those same memories of "the Good Old Days" of Koeman/Poch that meant Puel was judged so harshly, when his squad was clearly weaker. If we went Koeman --> MoPe --> Hughes --> Puel he'd be lauded on here guaranteed.

  40. #90

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    Quote Originally Posted by Forester View Post
    You are wasting your breath Lord D. The Puel out brigade will never ever accept your arguments, and most of them never saw away games anyway. They just spat their dummies out because of some boring end of season fixtures including a bizarre three home games in May at the end of a 50 game season.

    Meanwhile Puel took over at Leicester when they were below us last year, they finished 9th and we nearly went down. And this season? Not exactly imploding up there is it. To many fans, Saints losing Pelle, Mane, Wanyama before Puel took over and VVD for half a season is simply small detail that can be brushed away in the face of a totally unacceptable return of 8th in the Premier League and a cup final reached by failing to concede a single goal to all PL opposition. Shocking under performance
    Puel took over a team that had just won the Championship. They may have been struggling a bit when he went there but he inherited a Championship winning team. I don't remember too much love for him on TSW while he was here....

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  41. #91

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    Quote Originally Posted by Lord Duckhunter View Post
    It’s not rose tinted specs or hindsight from me. I’ve said all along that he did a bloody good job with an extremely average group of players. Nothing I’ve seen since has convinced me otherwise.

    Your view that it was the most boring team performances in 60 years shows that it is you whose memory is playing tricks . Whilst not exactly setting the world alight, there were some cracking performances under Puel, particularly away from home. If 8th and a cup final is a bad memory, I’d brace yourself for more and more disappointment and a decade of shocking memories to come ( here come the “worst 8th in football history” posts) .




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    Yawn. Next you will be wanting Glenn Hoddle back.

    Although personally I think that all our troubles can be traced back to when Bill Dodgin left for Fulham in 1949.

  42. Default

    Debating which of the last 3 turds is the biggest turd is pointless, they are all turds working with turds

    The club is owned by a turd, managed by turds and largely supported by happy clappy turds


  43. #93

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    Quote Originally Posted by Badger View Post
    Don't disagree, but who is that man, would he want to come to Saints as we are ?

    Above all, do you have confidence in Reed identifying the right candidate, and going for him ?

    I think we could attract people, the set up is still decent, we have players who are supposedly good at least on paper and we are a premier league team and that is enough to tempt managers from Europe, even from bigger clubs.

    Remember Silva went from winning titles and finishing top 4 with unfancied teams in Portugal to taking over a Hull team that was almost already down, so I think we could easily attract an up and coming manager from Europe, especially in the next 2-3 months where he'd have time to turn it around.

    Identifying the right candidate though, based on the last 3 appointments? No.

    But it's still worth a gamble, I can't see Hughes turning it around. I just think the modern game has moved past him, most of his success as a manager really came like 8-10 years ago. He was ok at Stoke for the first couple of years but he inherited a very professional, well drilled team from Pulis who you'd at least know would leave everything out on the pitch, and with subsequent investment he didn't improve them that much and seemed to erode the team spirit and teamwork from that squad.

  44. #94

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    Quote Originally Posted by tajjuk View Post
    I think we could attract people, the set up is still decent, we have players who are supposedly good at least on paper.
    For me, this is half of the problem. This team reminds me of the England team before this world cup. Good on paper, but no fight, no passion, and some desperate weak points letting the rest of the team down. We really do have some players who are not as good as they think they are!

  45. Default

    Quote Originally Posted by kwsaint View Post
    Yawn. Next you will be wanting Glenn Hoddle back.

    Although personally I think that all our troubles can be traced back to when Bill Dodgin left for Fulham in 1949.
    Yeah, because decisions made over 20 & 50 years ago have the same bearing on the present side as one made 2 years ago. It’s like saying selling Dean Richards weakened our present centre half options just as much as selling VvD. The club made a massive mistake in backing the players instead of Puel, some of us saw it at the time, some of you won’t even accept it after the 18 months since.


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  46. #96

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    How does "good on paper" even apply to our squad?

    None of our GKs are particularly good on paper by PL standards. Same goes for our central defenders. Yoshida is probably the best on paper and he's being frozen out.

    Full backs are decent on paper.

    Central midfield is not particularly good on paper by PL standards. Romeu has always been bit-part at this level. Lemina is up and down more than a porno Doris. Hojbjerg is young and seems to be on an upward curve but he's nothing special yet. Davis is over the hill and JWP is pound-shop Beckham.

    Attacking midfielders: Armstrong and Mo are untested at this level and Redmond, whilst being much better this season, will always just be Redmond. I'll tell you who was good on paper: Dusan Tadic.

    Then you've got the strikers: Long isn't good on paper. Neither is Austin, particularly. Gabbi sort of is but his goal record really isn't. Ings is decent but needs to show he can do it over a season when he's the main man.

    So, actually, the only players in our team with any proven history of turning in consistently decent performances at PL level are Bertrand, Yoshi, Davis (but not really any more) and Ings.

  47. #97

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    Quote Originally Posted by benjii View Post
    How does "good on paper" even apply to our squad?
    Well Forster used to be good and probably has a reputation better than his current level of form/confidence. McCarthy has just been in an England squad and probably is now fulfilling the potential that saw him as a highly rated young prospect while at Reading and Gunn is one of the most highly rated young keepers in the country.

    Both our full backs are good on paper, they are just not playing well. Bertrand England international, at times wanted by several bigger clubs, Cedric was probably one of the most consistent full backs in the league until the last 6-9 months.

    Centre-backs, well Hoedt is a Holland international who was playing for a good Lazio side fairly regularly. Vestergaard, Danish international, playing regularly for a good BMG side last year, champions league the year before.

    Romeu was up there as probably one of the best DMs in the league a few years ago, at least outside the top 6.

    Lemina was playing champions league football with Juventus and Marseille.

    Hojberg played Bayern at like 18 and was a regular in a good Schalke side.

    Moe was Basel's best player last year and shone in the Champions league vs Man City.

    Redmond and Ward-Prowse are probably have the most England U21 caps of any players playing currently, and have bags of PL experience at young ages.

    Austin has a 1 in 2 PL record.

    Ings was highly rated before his injuries and was still getting massive praise from Klopp on his ability and they wanted to keep him.



    Plenty of 'on-paper' ability there IMO, they are just not performing at near their best and they are not performing as a collective unit. Whilst the squad is maybe not the best IMO it's good enough for mid-table PL if you compare it to other squads.

    Getting the best out of it is the manager's job and he is not doing that.

  48. Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Forester View Post
    To many fans, Saints losing Pelle, Mane, Wanyama before Puel took over and VVD for half a season is simply small detail that can be brushed away in the face of a totally unacceptable return of 8th in the Premier League and a cup final reached by failing to concede a single goal to all PL opposition. Shocking under performance
    Agreed that it is the decline in the available talent to the first team that is the problem. We had a relegation battle last season because of the talent AND the losing mentality that has crept into the side.

  49. #99

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    Quote Originally Posted by tajjuk View Post
    Well Forster used to be good and probably has a reputation better than his current level of form/confidence. McCarthy has just been in an England squad and probably is now fulfilling the potential that saw him as a highly rated young prospect while at Reading and Gunn is one of the most highly rated young keepers in the country.

    Both our full backs are good on paper, they are just not playing well. Bertrand England international, at times wanted by several bigger clubs, Cedric was probably one of the most consistent full backs in the league until the last 6-9 months.

    Centre-backs, well Hoedt is a Holland international who was playing for a good Lazio side fairly regularly. Vestergaard, Danish international, playing regularly for a good BMG side last year, champions league the year before.

    Romeu was up there as probably one of the best DMs in the league a few years ago, at least outside the top 6.

    Lemina was playing champions league football with Juventus and Marseille.

    Hojberg played Bayern at like 18 and was a regular in a good Schalke side.

    Moe was Basel's best player last year and shone in the Champions league vs Man City.

    Redmond and Ward-Prowse are probably have the most England U21 caps of any players playing currently, and have bags of PL experience at young ages.

    Austin has a 1 in 2 PL record.

    Ings was highly rated before his injuries and was still getting massive praise from Klopp on his ability and they wanted to keep him.



    Plenty of 'on-paper' ability there IMO, they are just not performing at near their best and they are not performing as a collective unit. Whilst the squad is maybe not the best IMO it's good enough for mid-table PL if you compare it to other squads.

    Getting the best out of it is the manager's job and he is not doing that.
    This is absolutely spot on and why Hughes should be gone

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  50. #100

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    Quote Originally Posted by Forester View Post
    You are wasting your breath Lord D. The Puel out brigade will never ever accept your arguments, and most of them never saw away games anyway. They just spat their dummies out because of some boring end of season fixtures including a bizarre three home games in May at the end of a 50 game season.

    Meanwhile Puel took over at Leicester when they were below us last year, they finished 9th and we nearly went down. And this season? Not exactly imploding up there is it. To many fans, Saints losing Pelle, Mane, Wanyama before Puel took over and VVD for half a season is simply small detail that can be brushed away in the face of a totally unacceptable return of 8th in the Premier League and a cup final reached by failing to concede a single goal to all PL opposition. Shocking under performance
    The 'Puel Out' brigade are probably the 'anti- Hoddle' brigade as well. They will never admit their errors.

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