James Ward-Prowse

England 3-1 up with 30 mins left. Surely JWP o'clock...?

 

Edit: nope, on comes Henderson...

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He is very unlucky. Crap like Rice, Barkley and Odoi getting game time against a league 1 team. The media will now jizz themselves over a poor england performance and JWP will have got the message - leave saints to get england caps.

That would be crap like Rice who has been consistently excellent this season and not just quite good for a couple of months?

JWP must leave Saints but somehow Rice gets picked for England despite 'only' playing for West Ham?

This is the poor England team who've just scored 9 goals in 2 competitive games?

On his way.

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He's on

Prowsey is on

He is very unlucky. Crap like Rice, Barkley and Odoi getting game time against a league 1 team. The media will now jizz themselves over a poor england performance and JWP will have got the message - leave saints to get england caps.

Rice dominated our midfield at St Mary's, and calling Odoi crap is equally odd.

Prowsey is on

and on his way to Anfield in the summer

England 3-1 up with 30 mins left. Surely JWP o'clock...?

 

Edit: nope, on comes Henderson...

Henderson was very good when he come on and is significantly better than jwp.

Chuck it out there early. JWP will not be in the next England squad. (Disclaimer providing we don’t have a number of injuries)

and on his way to Anfield in the summer

Shaqiri, Lallana and Keita struggle to get into that team. JWP would get nowhere near it.

Jwp really isn't that good. He's got a lot of potential and he's in a good vein of form but he's nowhere near a top 6 player.

and on his way to Anfield in the summer

No, it’ll be Man City or Arsenal.

At least he's out of the one cap wonder club and is now a proper established international with two. Just needs a handful more to catch up with Le Tiss.

Despite all the goals I've found England games dull this week, sums up international football, for the most part lacking in competitive edge.

International breaks (for fans of Premier league clubs like ourselves) are best spent taking in some local non league football.

We've done well to cap-tie him to England. I think Noddytown were sniffing around.

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Should be good for us that ward prowse is having the England carrot dangled in front of his face..keep up the club form and you can get in next time too and maybe get more time.

There's been some carping on here, but I'm pleased for him and think he deserved his international call-up. I've enjoyed watching him play since Ralph changed his approach, fair play to him.

It seemed to me that JWP was being played too far forward last night. Strange.

Much as I love to see any Saints player in an England shirt I do think it unlikely that he will be a regular. The competition is very tough in his position.

Why can't we just celebrate that he got on, in a very gifted team? Well done Prowsey. Good to see hard work paying off. He has improved a lot, including in terms of his strength, and we should just allow him that. Also, looks like one of the few who can score at the moment.

Why can't we just celebrate that he got on, in a very gifted team?

You've been a member of this esteemed forum since November 2006 and you're asking that question of the intelligentsia on here....?

Nah this is rubbish, it just shows how fickle football fans are. A racist culture doesn't mean you hate all black players, that is an aggressive over simplification to suit your own conclusion. It means it is harder to impress people when you do well and you get a LOT more stick when you do badly. Point to one black player getting a hatrick and being applauded is reductive as ****, its like that "I can't be racist, I have a black friend" argument.

 

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to be fair though, Ashley Cole didn't have to overcome being black to become popular, he needed to overcome being a complete cockwomble and stop abusing / vomiting on girls / STD scares / swearing at police / shooting visitors on the training pitch etc., and not to mention his general on-pitch behaviour.

to be fair though, Ashley Cole didn't have to overcome being black to become popular, he needed to overcome being a complete cockwomble and stop abusing / vomiting on girls / STD scares / swearing at police / shooting visitors on the training pitch etc., and not to mention his general on-pitch behaviour.

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It seemed to me that JWP was being played too far forward last night. Strange.

Much as I love to see any Saints player in an England shirt I do think it unlikely that he will be a regular. The competition is very tough in his position.

Yes I thought that too. He didn't really get much time to make an impact and neither did Wilson. Good for him to get on though.

He's behind 3-4 other players at present and probably rightly so given Barkley's upturn in form. Though I didn't think that Rice was anything special.

He looked very nervous and unsure of his role last night. Every time he received the ball he off-loaded it as quickly as possible usually backwards safely to a team mate 5 yards away. He's got to be a lot more confident on the ball than he was last night and more assertive in making things happen if he wants to get into this team again. Let's face it he's 24 and the new kids are 18, time is not on his side.

Certainly cannot challenge Henderson or Barclay on this showing.

A few passes to steady himself after coming on, then he tried to take it round two players on the wing. Thought he did fine. Didnt look out of place. Probably would have scored had he played the whole game. Not a starter but a nice little player to have on the bench and offers something different. I have no idea why everyone is obsessed with comparing our players to others, and also thinking that they can only be good if they're starting.

Mainly because that's what it takes to get into the England team.

Played well last night, we were the better team for large chunks of the game. Although the equaliser got them back on terms and where everyone expected them to be the real turning point was their double substitution bringing on Gobby and Milner. Completely changed the dynamic in midfield and on the right in place of the ineffective Wijnaldum and poor Trent-Arnold. It seems to be a trait of Ralph, excellent at setting up the team initially, and getting into leads (born out by the silly stat of us giving away more points from leding positions) but then not being able to counter tactical changes by the opposition when they are behind (or level). First goal resulted from clear offside, but really not surprised it was not given, and anyway we had opoprtunities to get the ball away before it went in, though Gunn could have done better to be honest. Second goal was No 17 in our series of how to turn corners into goals conceded. We have been doing this for 3 or more seasons now under various managers, how often did we concede from corners given away by Tadic, Boufal etc. If we are going to go gung-ho at corners we have to have more defensive cover than one man. Bertrand did everything right and everything he could without getting a red card (which would have been very costly to us in our remaining games) but n the end was bested by a great piece of skill by Salah. Don't care about the 3rd goal it was just a result of trying to get back in the game, but was irritating that Gobby was the scorer. JWP disappointing last night, thought he was totally ineffective, and the offsides in the first half were ridiculous, killed our momentum on more than one occassion. His set pieces were dreadful. Otherwise most of our players put in a good performance.

All in all it was a good performance, final score flattered them a bit, but was better than I had predicted (1-4).

 

Completely ****ed off by the Sky coverage with Carragher's antics, why the hell do Sky allow him to commentate on Liverpool games, it was truly embarrassing having to put up with the fawning over Liverpool by him and the rest of the team. All the post match stuff about Pool, absolutely nothing about Saints, it was like only one team took part in what was actually a good, entertaining match.

I admit he didn't have a great game, and was quite very quite, but he created 4 good chances ( Not including his set pieces which was in the words of Sky "Dead-ball delivery always dangerous"), no other player created 4 chances BTW Firmino was 2nd on 3 chances, so I don't know what you are going on about, he clearly put more chances into the box that we could have scored off but failed to do so. Redmond created sweet f a BTW and in the words of sky " Got in-behind on several occasions in the first half but lacked the quality delivery needed to get Southampton's second. Lost the ball 20 times " created 0 chances LOL

I admit he didn't have a great game, and was quite very quite, but he created 4 good chances ( Not including his set pieces which was in the words of Sky "Dead-ball delivery always dangerous"), no other player created 4 chances BTW Firmino was 2nd on 3 chances, so I don't know what you are going on about, he clearly put more chances into the box that we could have scored off but failed to do so. Redmond created sweet f a BTW and in the words of sky " Got in-behind on several occasions in the first half but lacked the quality delivery needed to get Southampton's second. Lost the ball 20 times " created 0 chances LOL

As usual when it comes to JWP, you are over-the-top with your unconditional praise. He played really well for 6 - 7 games but has been largely anonymous against Brighton and again today. Redmond on the other hand played very well today - take your blinkers off and just watch the game.

As usual when it comes to JWP, you are over-the-top with your unconditional praise. He played really well for 6 - 7 games but has been largely anonymous against Brighton and again today. Redmond on the other hand played very well today - take your blinkers off and just watch the game.

Really? blikers? ill highlight Redmond for you...... Southampton: Gunn (6), Valery (6), Bednarek (6), Yoshida (5), Vestergaard (6), Bertrand (6), Romeu (6), Ward-Prowse (6), Hojbjerg (7), Redmond (5), Long (6).

Ill highlight what was Said in regards to Redmond .

Nathan Redmond - 5

Got in-behind on several occasions in the first half but lacked the quality delivery needed to get Southampton's second. Lost the ball 20 times, and Milner got the better of him when he replaced Alexander-Arnold.

JWP James Ward-Prowse - 6

Attempted 10 crosses, successful with four of them, but was otherwise quiet as the game passed him by. Dead-ball delivery always dangerous, but didn't show the other sides to his game.

Redmonds Stats 1 shot 0 on target, 0 key passes, 2 dribbles, lost the ball for us 20 times, 14 times more than every one else on the team combined.

JWP stat 1 shot 0 on target 4 key passes

But whate ever dude, Redmond created all our chances and even scored the goal that Long scored. stats never lie and yes I watched the game, Redmodn was poor apart from his running and dribbling and losing the ball more than the rest of the team combined, but OK Austsaint, https://www.whoscored.com/Matches/1284900/LiveStatistics/England-Premier-League-2018-2019-Southampton-Liverpool

https://www.skysports.com/football/news/11661/11685229/southampton-1-3-liverpool-player-ratings-as-reds-go-top-again

https://www.skysports.com/football/soton-vs-liverpool/391083

All these must be wrong and you KING AUSTSAINT Right

Just wanted to add this for you as I know how much you hate JWP, but despite playing 15 games less than Redmond in the league, JWP is now are most creative player in the league after yesterdays game. thank you told you he would take it off Redmond before the end of the season

Good bye.

I admit he didn't have a great game, and was quite very quite, but he created 4 good chances ( Not including his set pieces which was in the words of Sky "Dead-ball delivery always dangerous"), no other player created 4 chances BTW Firmino was 2nd on 3 chances, so I don't know what you are going on about, he clearly put more chances into the box that we could have scored off but failed to do so. Redmond created sweet f a BTW and in the words of sky " Got in-behind on several occasions in the first half but lacked the quality delivery needed to get Southampton's second. Lost the ball 20 times " created 0 chances LOL

Last night he was totally ineffective, don't know where you get the chances stat from, but it's clearly ********. He bad a poor game lst night, get over it, he's been playing very well for a while that's why it's disappointing when he doesn't show well in a game.

Last night he was totally ineffective, don't know where you get the chances stat from, but it's clearly ********. He bad a poor game lst night, get over it, he's been playing very well for a while that's why it's disappointing when he doesn't show well in a game.

Sky website report, Who scored. EPL website. Transfermrkt. the stats say the same on all 4, so if he did nothing, why are these saying he did? Official stats according to them. if he did not create 4 chances why do these all say he did? They telling lies are they?

He was quite, but still had the most key passes in the game ( EG Chances that should have led to a goal being scored which is the definition of a key pass EG AN Assist. )

Really? blikers? ill highlight Redmond for you...... Southampton: Gunn (6), Valery (6), Bednarek (6), Yoshida (5), Vestergaard (6), Bertrand (6), Romeu (6), Ward-Prowse (6), Hojbjerg (7), Redmond (5), Long (6).

 

 

 

Ill highlight what was Said in regards to Redmond .

 

 

Nathan Redmond - 5

 

Got in-behind on several occasions in the first half but lacked the quality delivery needed to get Southampton's second. Lost the ball 20 times, and Milner got the better of him when he replaced Alexander-Arnold.

 

 

JWP James Ward-Prowse - 6

Attempted 10 crosses, successful with four of them, but was otherwise quiet as the game passed him by. Dead-ball delivery always dangerous, but didn't show the other sides to his game.

 

 

 

Redmonds Stats 1 shot 0 on target, 0 key passes, 2 dribbles, lost the ball for us 20 times, 14 times more than every one else on the team combined.

 

 

JWP stat 1 shot 0 on target 4 key passes

 

 

But whate ever dude, Redmond created all our chances and even scored the goal that Long scored. stats never lie and yes I watched the game, Redmodn was poor apart from his running and dribbling and losing the ball more than the rest of the team combined, but OK Austsaint, https://www.whoscored.com/Matches/1284900/LiveStatistics/England-Premier-League-2018-2019-Southampton-Liverpool

 

https://www.skysports.com/football/news/11661/11685229/southampton-1-3-liverpool-player-ratings-as-reds-go-top-again

 

 

https://www.skysports.com/football/soton-vs-liverpool/391083

 

 

All these must be wrong and you KING AUSTSAINT Right

 

 

Just wanted to add this for you as I know how much you hate JWP, but despite playing 15 games less than Redmond in the league, JWP is now are most creative player in the league after yesterdays game. thank you told you he would take it off Redmond before the end of the season

 

 

Good bye.

FYI - JWP and Redmond can be judged independently of each other. Its entirely possible for both of them to be good, which they have been this season.

Redmond is clearly our Player of the Season (judged over the whole season), with JWP, Hojbjerg and Bednarek in the pack behind.

They also:

- Play in different positions and are not competing for game time

- Have different set piece duties

- Are totally different types of player

In addition, these are one person's subjective ratings.

They gave Joel Matip 8/10 when I thought he was poor.

They are not facts.

FYI - JWP and Redmond can be judged independently of each other. Its entirely possible for both of them to be good, which they have been this season.

 

Redmond is clearly our Player of the Season (judged over the whole season), with JWP, Hojbjerg and Bednarek in the pack behind.

 

They also:

 

- Play in different positions and are not competing for game time

- Have different set piece duties

- Are totally different types of player

 

In addition, these are one person's subjective ratings.

 

They gave Joel Matip 8/10 when I thought he was poor.

 

They are not facts.

They both played as Forwards against Liverpool, this is the game under discussion not the season JWP is still our most creative player in the league and was yesterday.

Sky website report, Who scored. EPL website. Transfermrkt. the stats say the same on all 4, so if he did nothing, why are these saying he did? Official stats according to them. if he did not create 4 chances why do these all say he did? They telling lies are they?

 

 

He was quite, but still had the most key passes in the game ( EG Chances that should have led to a goal being scored which is the definition of a key pass EG AN Assist. )

The threshold to qualify as a chance is pretty low. As such, you have to use your eyes and judgment to distinguish between high and low quality chances.

You might be right pal but in order to prove your point, you have to remind us of the four chances JWP created and we can assess them from there.

The threshold to qualify as a chance is pretty low. As such, you have to use your eyes and judgment to distinguish between high and low quality chances.

 

You might be right pal but in order to prove your point, you have to remind us of the four chances JWP created and we can assess them from there.

Does it matter, Redmond got 0, JWP 4, Firmino 3, Mane 1, Sala 2... Again does it matter? He created the most in the game, and we all agree HE PLAYED POOR. but Redmond was worst, don't care how many times he passed sideways or crosses he attempted ( 0 ) fact is, JWP created 4 chances for us to score while Redmond made none, Yet JWP was bad, And Redmond was good, Saints web logic.

Does it matter, Redmond got 0, JWP 4, Firmino 3, Mane 1, Sala 2... Again does it matter? He created the most in the game, and we all agree HE PLAYED POOR. but Redmond was worst, don't care how many times he passed sideways or crosses he attempted ( 0 ) fact is, JWP created 4 chances for us to score while Redmond made none, Yet JWP was bad, And Redmond was good, Saints web logic.

The chances were so good and memorable that you can remember exactly none of them

This guy Mosin makes me chuckle - it’s not Southampton it’s JWP FC

And yeah he was pretty ineffective last night.....JWP I mean, not Mosin

The chances were so good and memorable that you can remember exactly none of them

Still better than Redmond who created 0 seriously shurlock u r not that dense surely.

This guy Mosin makes me chuckle - it’s not Southampton it’s JWP FC

 

And yeah he was pretty ineffective last night.....JWP I mean, not Mosin

Again was more effective than Redmond who created nothing none nada f all.

Mosin, are you family or friends with JWP?

Mosin, are you family or friends with JWP?

No mate, just don't let opinions get in the way of facts, JWP is said on here to have been our worst player, and least effective, yet created 4 chances for us to score from, while Redmond didn't pass or run the ball in any place we could have scored from, yet Redmond was more effective?

JWP was better defensively than Redmond and better going forward as he actually made attempts to get the ball into the area to score goals, Redmond just ran around and gave the ball away ( Hench the 20 times he lost possession for us the most on the team, in fact more than every one else combined) .

Like don't get me wrong, JWP was poor, his performance was disappointing, but Redmond contributed less, and the stats back that up as he had worse at every thing a forward player is rated on but dribbling which he only made 2 attempts at in the full game any way, that lead to nothing as we did not even get a shot or a ball played into the area before he either got tackled or passed it to the wrong team, Even JWP got into the box more than Redmond and yet Redmond is a proper winger / Forward and JWP is a CM.... Like come on. its not opinion based its hard facts.

JWP created more for us, JWP covered the most ground, JWP made more contribution defensively, JWP lost the ball less, yet JWP was worse than Redmond who was one of our better players yet did less during the game than our worst player JWP.. can you explain in what world that makes any f ucking sense? cause I cant get my head around how Redmond was better yet did not one thing of note in the game.

No is good enough for me. ty

Mosin - what is your opinion of the chance Redmond created for himself in the 2nd half by cutting inside, going past Matip on the outside and having his shot blocked for a corner?

Was that not a chance, in your opinion, that Redmond created?!

Or the one Long missed from Bertrand's cross? That was created by Redmond too...

Mosin - what is your opinion of the chance Redmond created for himself in the 2nd half by cutting inside, going past Matip on the outside and having his shot blocked for a corner?

 

Was that not a chance, in your opinion, that Redmond created?!

 

Or the one Long missed from Bertrand's cross? That was created by Redmond too...

He’s got a weird agenda against Redmond. Clearly, until he went up top, Redmond was one of our best players (as he has been all season) and clearly the most creative we have in the side.

Ward-Prowse has had a great couple of months, form wise, but has been disappointing in his two games after England duty.

It's only fair to state that his role seems to have changed again and he's playing less in the middle and more out wide - where he's never really excelled.

Funnily enough, his form dropped off a cliff the last time England picked him too. (As did Redmond's.)

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He’s got a weird agenda against Redmond. Clearly, until he went up top, Redmond was one of our best players (as he has been all season) and clearly the most creative we have in the side.

That is one of our problems, whilst I agree he has been much improved we need better from our attacking players.

He is either part of a 2 or 3 depending on Ralph’s formation and his goals and assists are just not enough if we have ambitions of avoiding relegation fights.

I am not singling him out as the same applies to all of the others, we really need better quality attacking players but I guess a front 3 of Ings Redmond and Ward Prowse is the best we can hope for.

I thought Redmond had a good game. Pressed well but I agree that he needs to work on his final stage a bit more. Whether it's a pass or a shot, it's an area that he needs to work on.

JWP has had a couple of quiet games but i'm not sure if others have noticed that he's being pushed out wide again. He's had his best form in the middle this season.

Hoping Boufal comes back and is given a run of games in the middle as well. His preferred position.

Mosin - what is your opinion of the chance Redmond created for himself in the 2nd half by cutting inside, going past Matip on the outside and having his shot blocked for a corner?

 

Was that not a chance, in your opinion, that Redmond created?!

 

Or the one Long missed from Bertrand's cross? That was created by Redmond too...

the one where JWP passed to him he nutmegged Fabinho and tried to go past Matip but got tackled 7 yards from goal cause he cant get his head up to pick out passes?, not hard to notice both Long and JWP was open when he tried to beat one of the best keepers in the world from an impossible angle which didn't happen cause he got tackled by Matip trying to take to many people on, but least he won us a corner " Claps uncontrollably ", as Sky sports have said, he got him self into good position but his end product was rubbish.

same Redmond every game, its why he wont make the England team again, he is the only English winger / Forward who needs a million attempts to either score or pick out the correct pass even if he gets into decent positions a lot.

He’s got a weird agenda against Redmond. Clearly, until he went up top, Redmond was one of our best players (as he has been all season) and clearly the most creative we have in the side.

No he is clearly not, If he was the most creative player we have, how has JWP over took him in the league on chances created even though he has less than half Redmonds mins and half Redmonds games? whilst playing most games in Central mid?

I mean 2 is more than 1 right? so how can Redmond be most creative in the league when JWP has created more?? like the stats don't lie, Even Southampton FC own website claim JWP is the most creative in the league, unless Sky / Whoscored/ EPL site and so on and so on telling porkies? I mean I am more likely to believe these places than you, Some dense people around.

Like I know people have an agenda on JWP, but stats don't lie. Good thing about stats, they always tell the truth.

the one where JWP passed to him he nutmegged Fabinho and tried to go past Matip but got tackled 7 yards from goal cause he cant get his head up to pick out passes?, not hard to notice both Long and JWP was open when he tried to beat one of the best keepers in the world from an impossible angle which didn't happen cause he got tackled by Matip trying to take to many people on, but least he won us a corner " Claps uncontrollably ", as Sky sports have said, he got him self into good position but his end product was rubbish.

 

same Redmond every game, its why he wont make the England team again, he is the only English winger / Forward who needs a million attempts to either score or pick out the correct pass even if he gets into decent positions a lot.

 

 

He’s got a weird agenda against Redmond. Clearly, until he went up top, Redmond was one of our best players (as he has been all season) and clearly the most creative we have in the side.

 

 

No he is clearly not, If he was the most creative player we have, how has JWP over took him in the league on chances created even though he has less than half Redmonds mins and half Redmonds games? whilst playing most games in Central mid?

 

 

I mean 2 is more than 1 right? so how can Redmond be most creative in the league when JWP has created more?? like the stats don't lie, Even Southampton FC own website claim JWP is the most creative in the league, unless Sky / Whoscored/ EPL site and so on and so on telling porkies? I mean I am more likely to believe these places than you, Some dense people around.

 

 

Like I know people have an agenda on JWP, but stats don't lie. Good thing about stats, they always tell the truth.

Stats don’t lie, you’re right. They also don’t paint a full picture, only watching the game does that.

JWP is very much improved, he’s a work horse. I know who I’d rather defend against, and it’s not someone who’s willing to take me on and run in behind.

You do realise that having players like Redmond, creates space for people like JWP, teams will single Redmond as a key player to how we play and often stick 2 men on him.

Stats don’t lie, you’re right. They also don’t paint a full picture, only watching the game does that.

 

JWP is very much improved, he’s a work horse. I know who I’d rather defend against, and it’s not someone who’s willing to take me on and run in behind.

 

You do realise that having players like Redmond, creates space for people like JWP, teams will single Redmond as a key player to how we play and often stick 2 men on him.

I heard they making a special award for Redmond, its called the best space maker. its given to forward players who struggle to create chances for his teams to finish, Heard he was tipping Messi and Ronaldo to it, heard they get assists so are not allowed to be in the running for it. Best player in the world is Redmond says Arthur Antunes Coimbra ( Zico ) legend of the game, one of the best attacking players ever.

Heard Redmond up for the Ballon d'Or, was shown on sky Messi and Ronaldo arguing over who created the most space, both agreed it was Redmond, so they both decided to retire as they clearly cant compete with such amazing talent of Redmond, all the space Redmond creates makes messi's and Ronaldos goals and assists look worthless.

Be shocked if Redmond is a Saints player next year, all that space he makes, surely Real and Barca want such an amazing space creator on the team.. wow, forget them amazing passes crosses and stuff, just

watch the space, you can see paint drying near it.. OMG. clearly worlds best player next to long on the list of running and dribbling and creating space for other's...……..

Thought I would repost as mods seem fit to move my none rule breaking posts.. clearly i pay for a dictatorship forum, any chance of a refund on my sub pls? I agreed to your terms of use and your rules, and in none of them did it say if a mod disagrees with your opinion he can move it.

Stats don’t lie, you’re right. They also don’t paint a full picture, only watching the game does that.

 

JWP is very much improved, he’s a work horse. I know who I’d rather defend against, and it’s not someone who’s willing to take me on and run in behind.

 

You do realise that having players like Redmond, creates space for people like JWP, teams will single Redmond as a key player to how we play and often stick 2 men on him.

Unfortunately stats do lie, or at least numbers can be used to bolster weak arguments. The unattributed phrase there are "lies, damned lies and statistics" is well known, if not its origins at least its usage and meaning.

The stats that Mosin is using to back up his argument are obviously "correct" but so misleading. As it was my observation based opinion about JWP's performance yesterday that initiated Mosin's rant, I took some time to review that match. OK, so far I've only been able to do so through extended hiighlights (the 20+ minutes version, not the full match). Observation of these highlights renforces my opinion after the match, that JWP was very disappointing yesterday. Don't know how this got on to Redmond, I certainly nevr mentioned him. I'm no fan of Redmond, but he has been much better this season. He was average Friday, nothing more, but certainly did more for the team than JWP. The problem is that Mosin is basing much of his argument on the so-called "key passes" stat (JWP 4, PEH2, Valery 1, Bertrand 1, the rest combined zilch, according to whoscored.com). Now as far as I can tell, and its difficult to get a definitive answer, a key pass is one that leads directly to an attempt on goal (but not a goal, otherwise it would be an assist). So far I have been unable to find any what I would call key passes by JWP. The conclusion is that in fact in the case of JWP, the 4 key passes were 4 of his 7 corners, ones that resulted in an attempt on call, I assume the Vesteguard header and I think a Yoshida header, can't be usre of the others. Unfortunately key passes does not count for passes earlier in a play, and so the ball that Redmond threaded through to Bertrand for his cross to PEH very early on (I think this would be Betrand's Key Pass), and also the one that he threaded through again to Bertrand that Long missed (which should have been his 2nd), this one doesn't count for Bertrand as a key pass because Long ****ed it up completely. There was another key pass from Redmond later in the first half, which put JWP (ironically) in a dangerous position from which he tamely hit the ball wide of the goal post (which I think accounts for JWP's single shot), why this isn't counted as a key pass is a mystery. So there are three "key passes" which could have lead to goals but didn't, but none of the were counted as "Key Passes" by the statisticians. I used to have this argument with one of our hard of thinking friends on here with regard to Steve Davis and assists, the key to opening up a team is often the penultimate pass, not the one that directly leads to the goal/attempt, but stat collectors don't count these. Unfortunately people brought up on these stats don't seem capable of seeing beyond them and make them out to be the ultimate decider about who is the best or worst player. It is clearly nonsense. JWP (which is what my argumet was about yesterday) did almost nothing of note. His only real contribution offensively was from set pieces, and he made a complete pigs ear of some of them, and even the ones that lead to an attempt were really quite poor, by his standards. Using the stats which I distrust, whoscored.com also record how many touches each player took during the game. JWP yesterday mustered 37 touches in 90 minutes. For reference PEH took 55 touches, Bertrand 53 and Redmond 47. Only Bednarek, Long (24 in 61 minutes) and Gunn of the starters contributed less touches (even Gunn got to 29)). Now, factor in that JWP also took 7 corners and at least 2 free kicks, his contribution as a midfielder was actually quite shocking, he just never got involved. I'm not knocking him generally, he has been great recently, but Friday he was very poor. Having rewatched the game my opinion of his performance actually got worse. One of his other 28 touches was the wild slash at the ball that went to Mane who set Salah up directly for their 2nd. It got worse as well, I hadn't noticed that it was JWP tracking Henderson back for their 3rd, he had a clear opportunity to cut it out before it got to Gobby, but switched off at the ritical moment having done the hard work to get back with him. I dislike blaming individual players for goals but the best you can say is that JWP made a significant contribution to 2 of the 3 goals that we conceded by his poor play.

As I said, no idea how this got round to Redmond, but I'll stand by my opinion based on observation that JWP was very disappointing on Friday, and if Mosin or anyone else actually cares to watch the footage you will see the same. Redmond was not exactly outstanding, but outside of set pieces he contributed more that JWP by a long way. I await with interest the availability of the full re-run to see where those 4 key passes that JWP has been awarded actually came from, but I think I know the answer already. Hope JWP gets back to his recent strong performances in the next game when it will be more critical.