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Possible re-siting of away fans at SMS


Ivan Katalinic's 'tache

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A question we've been posed as a Saints Voice panel.

 

We've been asked to get feedback from the fanbase on a POTENTIAL move of the away fans from their current area of the Northam to "somewhere else" in the stadium.

 

What do you think of a proposal to move away fans from the Northam? I must stress this is only an exploration at the moment but Southampton FC want to know your thoughts and opinions?

 

Any thoughts you'd like me to share on behalf of the forum?

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First of all, thank you for the opportunity to give a view on this topic.

 

My opinion is brief as by the nature of st Mary's being a bowel then the options to me are limited. Its all abit 6 and 2 threes. They are where they are or in the opposite corner where the family area currently resides. I don't see it makes much difference and the bigger question forbthe club i would imagine is more about generating and recreating our own atmosphere by way of safe standing and identifying with the players on the pitch.

 

To answer the question, I'd leave as is and focus on other priorities.

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Didn't the police block the club from moving them to the Kingsland South years ago?

 

I really don't think the police can block anything, more likely they'd have suggested the easiest place to police away fans is where they are, the club then exagerated what was said, I've never heard of any other clubs in the country allowing the police to dictate where the club seats away fans.

 

I'd move them to one of the sides so the team are never running directly towards them, or have them behind them. We should have one toilet in that section, maybe remove the roof of that part and only sell veggie burgers

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Not only that, weren't the away fans positioned where they are when the ground first opened, fans were then asked where they wanted to be seated, the vocal ones then decided they wanted to be sat near the away fans, so surely if we move the away fans, some of the northam would relocate to where they get seated

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Ideally giving full singing end to saints sounds good especially if safe standing gets the go ahead.

 

Don’t think we help ourselves when we insist on letting away team kick towards their fans in second half usually when we are under the cosh

 

Can you tell us what else is being discussed by this group and the club please

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Push them slightly further in the itchen then small basic expansion of Northam stand(just adding extra rows at rear) of about 2-3k to increase home fans presence/noise and help water down away fans. It would cost but would also eliminate any police or logistical arguments about moving them.

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Pointless. Seating established and be p1ssed off if I had to relocate. We have sh1t fans and cr@p atmosphere not because of where away fans are located.

 

I agree and feel the pain bro. This guy is giving us an opportunity to help him relay the message ... saying we are sh1t fans isnt one of them although ive seen plenty of fans with there thumbs up there arses at games .. thats a bigger problem than just the club. Being able to identify with a brand and safe standing may well be away back though. Keep the faith.

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Absolutely 100% in favour - for years I've thought it gives the away side an advantage in shooting towards their fans in the second half. They should be on the side somewhere.

 

Totally agree with this. Always seen this as a huge disadvantage, just like the archers. We need both ends behind the goal. Vocal fans generally want away fans close, for the banter but they need to be moved to the kingsland or itchen ASAP.

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Push them slightly further in the itchen then small basic expansion of Northam stand(just adding extra rows at rear) of about 2-3k to increase home fans presence/noise and help water down away fans. It would cost but would also eliminate any police or logistical arguments about moving them.

Please please please, at least throw this option across the table.

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Quite a lot to consider with it:

 

- Plenty of Northam fans and Itchen North fans enjoy being there because it's so close to the away fans.

- Where do the away fans actually move to? What do the people who sit there make of it?- Would Northam/Itchen North fans also move to remain closer to the away fans?

 

In theory it would be good to have a whole home end

; in reality there's a lot of factors to bear in mind so it's not as simple as a yes/no answer for me, would probably need to see the finer details. But in general, yes, worth investigating.

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The police and council have already said NO to any movement of away fans from the britannia road corner.

 

The police for safety reasons can easily move away fans out on to the coaches and if need be block home fans from that area if required.

 

Start winning games at home and there isnt any issue.

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An excellent idea. Move them into a corner like they have at Leicester.

 

I have heard the initiative for this may have come from our players who feel they get little advantage from playing at home and would like to see us have a proper home 'kop'.

 

For many games there is just an empty block behind the Northam goal, which is used for fan segregation, whilst for big cup games the away fans take over almost all of the Northam end and our singers disappear. Meanwhile, the block behind the goal at the Chapel end seems to be used by some of our most silent fans.

 

The best home support has been when the away team has brought very few fans so our fans have been behind the goal at the Northam end. The worst has been when we've played at home to big clubs like Man United and Chelsea in cup games and they've taken over most of the Northam end.

 

One problem is that the club didn't really put any thought into what type of fans they wanted in each section when the new stadium was opened and so there were no guidelines. In contrast, Leicester made it very clear in their published plans where their kop would be before they put their first season tickets on sale. They also decided to put the away fans in a corner, where they would be least noticed and have minimal influence on a game. For their FA Cup game v Chelsea, even though there was a large contingent of Chelsea fans, because they were stuck in a corner and Leicester had a whole home end, the Leicester fans outsang them and you hardly heard the away fans. In contrast, when we last played at home to Chelsea in the FA Cup, they took over the Northam end and you hardly heard our fans at all. In football stadiums, corners have the worst acoustics, as most of the sound is directed inwards into the adjacent fans rather than outwards onto the pitch.

 

I understand that moving 1 or 2 blocks to one side would be a slight annoyance to some fans but if the club made it clear that there would be a designated singing section behind one of the goals, I hope most would appreciate it.

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The number of microphones at pitch side in front of away fans also makes them loud over the TV. When away fans are put up high in some foreign grounds that's why you can't hear them over the tv. It also helps with away fans in corner as you can't place as many microphones there. This is/was also the case at Newcastle even though you had 3k plus away fans, you never really heard them on TV.

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All this ******** about the police not allowing us to move them - why can’t the away coaches park the other side of the stadium near the megastore? Still allows to be blocked off and they could go in the itchen chapel corner. The police just want an easy life when in reality it would be absolutely no different.

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All this ******** about the police not allowing us to move them - why can’t the away coaches park the other side of the stadium near the megastore? Still allows to be blocked off and they could go in the itchen chapel corner. The police just want an easy life when in reality it would be absolutely no different.

 

i think you’ve answered your own question. It’s because of the megastore and the fact home fans would be milling around there both before and after kick off. I think if the megastore wasn’t there it would be the obvious choice of where to put them but I’m pretty sure that will be the reason against.

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Move them to a side, have the Northam as our home vocal end.

 

How would that work then? You can’t move them to the Itchen because that’s where the hospitality is, that means you’ve got to dump 3,000 away fans in the Kingsland (not sure how segregation would work for the games where they shut the car park).

 

Plus you have to shift all the ST holders from their seats, then you end up with people who like to sit in silence and clap politely sat next to the away fans so they will want to move. Then the Northam fans who like to be near the away fans will all move to different areas to get near the banter. So the current Northam will just end up a mix of ****ed off Kingslanders, Chapel corner fans looking for somewhere less sweary and Northam fans who can’t be arsed to move. End result being a worse atmosphere and logistical nightmare to police.

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+1 for Kingsland corner. Jesus Christ we are a multi million pound organisation. Hire a ****ing architect to organise the segregation, safe policing routes, etc...make the plans known just after new year so people can get their grumble out of the way and choose their new seat in plenty of time for renewals next season. Rocket science it is not.

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First of all, thank you for the opportunity to give a view on this topic.

 

My opinion is brief as by the nature of st Mary's being a bowel then the options to me are limited. Its all abit 6 and 2 threes. They are where they are or in the opposite corner where the family area currently resides. I don't see it makes much difference and the bigger question forbthe club i would imagine is more about generating and recreating our own atmosphere by way of safe standing and identifying with the players on the pitch.

 

To answer the question, I'd leave as is and focus on other priorities.

 

What an odd answer.. What on Earth has safe standing got to with this subject?

Yes move the away area to another part of the ground.

In this way we fill one end and generate more noise which is important....

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It is madness that we give our home advantage tot the away fans. If the fans from the Northam sat at theother end of the ground and heard that they are drowned out quite often by the away support they might realise that moving the away fans would be the best option

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I agree - Maybe the away fans could take the Kingsland North corner, and give the rest of the Northam and Itchen corner to the home fans ?

 

Once out the stadium there would have to be a way of them exiting to their coaches in Britannia Road, which would involve a cross over unless the internal rear corridor areas of the stadium beneath the bowl can house this, maybe with an enclosed mezzanine level gangway.

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i think you’ve answered your own question. It’s because of the megastore and the fact home fans would be milling around there both before and after kick off. I think if the megastore wasn’t there it would be the obvious choice of where to put them but I’m pretty sure that will be the reason against.

They're next to the ticket office now so what's the difference?

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They're next to the ticket office now so what's the difference?

 

Also, as large numbers of both home and away fans arrive and leave via the footbridge, where there is usually little or no police presence, there is already as much if not more mingling of fans than you would get around the megastore. Plenty of clubs around the country have moved the location of their away section in recent years including some like Leeds with far more troublesome fans than ours. In fact, the current setup at St Mary's is more likely to cause flashpoints between the most volatile fans of both teams than just about any alternative, although crowds are so peaceful nowadays that the police probably get more criminal activity from Saturday afternoon shoppers.

 

The point made earlier that our singers being split into two groups in the corners of the Northam, who can't hear each other and usually sing different songs, means they are easily outsung by a large, united bank of away fans, is a valid one. I also return to the fact that the players themselves are unhappy with the current setup and want a proper home end supporting them. This isn't just because it lifts the team but also because it has an influence on refereeing decisions. Any 50/50 decision at the Northam end tends to go the way of the away team because of the loud howls of protest from their fans, whereas at the Chapel end our fans rarely do more than murmur.

 

Any minor obstacles to moving the away fans, like a dividing wall in a concourse, are not going to cost a fortune to remove so let's back the club's initiative on this.

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What an odd answer.. What on Earth has safe standing got to with this subject?

Yes move the away area to another part of the ground.

In this way we fill one end and generate more noise which is important....

 

Not odd. Just saying that if we had a terrace concept then I think a better home atmosphere would prevail perhaps negating the need to care where the away fans are in a stadium where it is pretty much the same all of the way around. If that's not the case then why are all other parts of the ground so quiet.. I'd say that the position of the away fans drawers are noiser fans in so if you move them, then our singers will move with them. Having read through other comments, I accept that moving them.around the corner away from behind the goal abit might be better.

Just my opinion.

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This is a stupid idea, having the away fans in between the two vocal parts of the stadium helps drown out the away fans. St Marys is not a good enough stadium to have one end like Anfields Kop, the reason why the Kop is so good and others such as Dortmunds yellow wall is because they are big steep intimidating stands, St Marys being a bowl will not generate the same kind of atmosphere and as we all know our atmosphere is crap anyway, moving away fans wont all of a sudden change this.

 

This is just a pointless exercise by this supporters panel to try and feel like they are doing something for the fans and club when in reality its just nonsense

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Not odd. Just saying that if we had a terrace concept then I think a better home atmosphere would prevail perhaps negating the need to care where the away fans are in a stadium where it is pretty much the same all of the way around. If that's not the case then why are all other parts of the ground so quiet.. I'd say that the position of the away fans drawers are noiser fans in so if you move them, then our singers will move with them. Having read through other comments, I accept that moving them.around the corner away from behind the goal abit might be better.

Just my opinion.

 

And that is the easiest and cheapest solution and would enable us to have home fans, rather than an empty block or away fans, behind the goal at the Northam end for all of our games.

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I personally think there's a massive naivety to people that think moving the away fans would create a "kop" at St Mary's. There's not a shred of evidence to suggest that this would happen, in fact i'd hazard a guess that having a Northam end full of Saints would actually make it quieter.

 

Part of the thing that people need to remember is that the Northam didn't happen by accident. People who stood in the Archers moved to the Northam, likewise the Itchen North didn't suddenly pop into existence, they were mainly heads from the old Under the East.

 

The Chapel is (and was designed as) a "kop", the reality of the Chapel is that it was where the people from the Milton went, and the East and West stands went to their respective sides.

 

Saints have never really been a club to have a kop end, the closest we came was the terraced Milton road, but even then you had different pockets of groups round the Dell, and for years the Archers was a split stand.

 

If the club really want to improve the atmosphere (and assuming they can't do safe standing) then the easiest thing to do is to go back to how the Northam was in the first couple of seasons. Make it adult only (no concessions) and turn a blind eye to "persistent standing" the whole way through the stand.

 

Also they should keep the Northam, aside from season tickets, as walk up only. Part of the problem with the atmosphere is that groups of lads can't stand together anymore, so everything gets diluted, hell last game i had a row of about 6 tourists taking videos on their phones all game. I'd also argue the club, if they really care about atmosphere, should be a bit more selective on who they sell to for that stand.

 

If a group of tourists want to buy tickets in the Northam they should be advised to buy them somewhere else instead, likewise people bringing families and kids. I know it's an unfashionable thing to say but if you want a good atmosphere then you want groups of lads from the ages of 16 - 40, because like it or not they're the main ones that sing.

 

Then there's one last part, which is our own fault as much as anyone's. In the old days of the Dell fans would naturally move out of certain areas as they got older (or had kids) these days they stay so you don't get young blood moving in. I'm not sure what you can do about this but maybe those Saints fans who are getting a bit old and grumpy for the northam should give up their season tickets and move to another part of the ground, to let some nippers that want to stand and sing take their place?

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Re the OP, I think if it can be done (regardless of whether the police etc have said no previously), then it would be a sensible idea to get a mass of home fans behind that goal. I would agree with some of the above though that the away fans need to be kept close as that is part of the attraction with sitting in the Northam/Itchen.

 

I hope they know they will have to have other ideas to generate a better atmosphere as well as this - as per ericb above turning a blind eye to "persistent standing" for example, because doing it will not automatically create more noise but if nothing else it would remove the boost that the away fans give their team when they attack that end, particularly in the second half.

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This is a stupid idea, having the away fans in between the two vocal parts of the stadium helps drown out the away fans. St Marys is not a good enough stadium to have one end like Anfields Kop, the reason why the Kop is so good and others such as Dortmunds yellow wall is because they are big steep intimidating stands, St Marys being a bowl will not generate the same kind of atmosphere and as we all know our atmosphere is crap anyway, moving away fans wont all of a sudden change this.

 

This is just a pointless exercise by this supporters panel to try and feel like they are doing something for the fans and club when in reality its just nonsense

 

It really doesn't. Sit anywhere else in the ground and you'll realise the opposite is true.

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First of all, thank you for the opportunity to give a view on this topic.

 

My opinion is brief as by the nature of st Mary's being a bowel then the options to me are limited. Its all abit 6 and 2 threes. They are where they are or in the opposite corner where the family area currently resides. I don't see it makes much difference and the bigger question forbthe club i would imagine is more about generating and recreating our own atmosphere by way of safe standing and identifying with the players on the pitch.

 

To answer the question, I'd leave as is and focus on other priorities.

 

Do you mean bowl?

 

I would move them, ideally to Fratton Park, if not, then to central Itchen stand.

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I also believe they should be moved. We have all witnessed away fans sucking the ball their end for late winners. It's our ground and should benefit us, both ends should be home fans! Appreciate easier said than done with the logistical problems. But a YES from me.

 

but that is the thing though- it is almost 2019 now and our days of hooliganism is over (minus the Sterling debate), so logistical problems should be almost redundant

 

I feel we should move them to a corner, a bit like Leicester, somewhere maybe in the Kingsland corner...

it isn't like by moving them there sees an increasing in stabbing is there? s

 

mind you though, we weren't having these discussions 3 years ago when we were actually any good.... it all seems to have gone wrong when virgin decided to subsidise the away fans/starting sponsoring us.

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For a start, even if there was another tier on one of the stands, we wouldn't be able to just stick them up there as PL rules now state a certain percentage of away fans must be pitchside. Unless you're Newcastle United.

 

There's no way they'll move them round the corner into the Itchen North in front of the corp boxes and unless you give them all the way up to the posh central seats (that won't happen either) there's an issue with splitting the concourse. They can't go into the Northam/Kingsland corner as they'll be exiting straight into a pinch-point with home fans making for the railway bridge and the cross-over going back to the coaches. The only real possibility is the Chapel/Kingsland corner if they park the coaches on the industrial estate behind but this would be a carve up getting them away after.

 

Nice thought but can't see it happening. The OB will get their way.

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