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Thread: Saints 1 West Ham 2 - Post Match Reality Check

  1. #201

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    Quote Originally Posted by Mosin View Post
    If they push up and the midfield lose possession its not the full back's fault, they need to push up to offer width other wise we will have none, Lemina and Romeu and Armstrong and Redmond are all needed to help the full backs, we failed on a lot of defensive duties yesterday and gave the ball away in very silly areas resulting in WH counter attacking down the wings cause are full backs are pushed right up creating width for the team. This hardly happened when Hoj was playing as he covers extremely well for the full backs as can be seen in the gunners game.
    except two of the worse culprits for giving the ball away last night were the wingbacks. I'm well aware how wingbacks work and those didn't work hard enough to get up and down the pitch as the position requires imo.

  2. #202

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    Quote Originally Posted by Wes Tender View Post
    Is it too much to ask for some consistency in refereeing? Fine if he's going to let the carthorse Carroll get away with industrial level thuggery, provided that he allows our players the same. He didn't.
    Yes, because referees are human and humans are inconsistent. How long have people spoken about refereeing inconsistencies? It's not new.

  3. #203

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    Quote Originally Posted by shurlock View Post
    Armstrong pressed but didn’t provide the wingback/fullback much cover.

    That’s what happens when you tuck Armstrong and Redmond inside -whether it is to get them closer to Ings or cut off the passing lanes through the middle of the pitch (and in principle squeeze play to the touch lines where the team in possession has fewer options).

    In short, Wham handily exposed the limitations of RH’s system.
    which is fair enough observation but as I pointed out on another thread to play this way Ralph needs a much better quality of fullback/wingback in the team and certainly more pace than Targett and Valery seem to have. Wingbacks have to cover a **** lot of ground busting a gut to get forward and get back again far to often last night they just gave up and left it to the CBs for my liking.

  4. #204

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    Quote Originally Posted by doddisalegend View Post
    except two of the worse culprits for giving the ball away last night were the wingbacks. I'm well aware how wingbacks work and those didn't work hard enough to get up and down the pitch as the position requires imo.
    Targett, Most clear cut chances made, most key passes, Most cross attempts, Most long ball attempts, caught in possession 0 times, miss controlled 0 times, tackles made 7, Interceptions 1, 4 clearance's and 1 blocked shot. and yo are picking passing acc, are you doing the same for Redmond who was worst than Targett?

    if you ask me, he was one of the best performers. I blame the team for not covering better, not the young full backs who look to the more exp players around them for help.

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    Not sour grapes but why didn't the referee book Fabianski for time wasting as early as the fifth minute? An early yellow card would put a stop to it from the beginning.

    Moan over for now.

  6. #206

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    Quote Originally Posted by Batman View Post
    Further to this, Rice has signed a deal with them
    Was it only you worried this wouldn’t happen?

  7. #207

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    Quote Originally Posted by doddisalegend View Post
    which is fair enough observation but as I pointed out on another thread to play this way Ralph needs a much better quality of fullback/wingback in the team and certainly more pace than Targett and Valery seem to have. Wingbacks have to cover a **** lot of ground busting a gut to get forward and get back again far to often last night they just gave up and left it to the CBs for my liking.

    The full backs had nothing to do with any of the goas we conceded. so why do you keep banging on about the dam full backs. they are the youngest players on the pitch and they had 0 to do with both goals we conceded...….. Redmond was closest on the first goal and didn't close him down fast enough...……. Valery was like 10 - 15 yards away, Redmond was 3 yards away...…… Poor Valery was still in are goal area...………….. and the 2nd goal was cause Armstrong lost possession after we was all pushed up trying to score a goal. neither goals have any thing to do with the full backs.


    Stop going on abut the full backs, why was Romeu the best dribbler, is that not the ONLY thing Redmond brings? see loads of other stuff you can pick on but you CHOOSE TO PICK ON THE YOUNGSTERS!!!!!!!!!



    Gert a grip.

  8. Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Mosin View Post
    The full backs had nothing to do with any of the goas we conceded..
    Watch Valery again for the first. He's got Anderson, then he turns to watch the ball while Anderson cuts inside unmarked.

  9. #209

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    For me Armstrong was our best player.. his use of the ball was always clever and didn't lose it very often especially compared to others,, sprayed a couple of nice balls out wide from deep, made a great tackle on the full back which gave Redmond a strike on goal. And tbh always looked calm snd like he had time on the ball, also a really nicely struck shot in the second half.. thought he had a great game

  10. #210

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    Quote Originally Posted by DuncanRG View Post
    Watch Valery again for the first. He's got Anderson, then he turns to watch the ball while Anderson cuts inside unmarked.
    Not how I see it. watch from 2:53 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FE_rVen4cOc , I see a clearance dropping to Anderson on the egde of the area, Closest person to him is Redmond as Anderson and the ball are going into Redmonds path, Valery is never getting to him before he pulls the trigger, plus we also have 3 players in the box all in the line of the shot who could have push out faster but didn't, The goal is not Valerys fault.
    Last edited by Mosin; 28-12-2018 at 08:08 PM. Reason: forgot post link :D

  11. #211

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    Quote Originally Posted by Mosin View Post
    Not how I see it. watch from 2:53 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FE_rVen4cOc , I see a clearance dropping to Anderson on the egde of the area, Closest person to him is Redmond as Anderson and the ball are going into Redmonds path, Valery is never getting to him before he pulls the trigger, plus we also have 3 players in the box all in the line of the shot who could have push out faster but didn't, The goal is not Valerys fault.
    I disagree, Valery should have sensed the danger and followed him IMO. The closing down was also **** poor though.

  12. #212

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    Quote Originally Posted by pimpin4rizeal View Post
    For me Armstrong was our best player.. his use of the ball was always clever and didn't lose it very often especially compared to others,, sprayed a couple of nice balls out wide from deep, made a great tackle on the full back which gave Redmond a strike on goal. And tbh always looked calm snd like he had time on the ball, also a really nicely struck shot in the second half.. thought he had a great game
    Yes a ‘few’ good moments with the ball but in the poor side without it.....

  13. #213

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    Quote Originally Posted by Valesaint View Post
    Not sour grapes but why didn't the referee book Fabianski for time wasting as early as the fifth minute? An early yellow card would put a stop to it from the beginning.

    Moan over for now.
    Because he wasn't time wasting. The whinging from our crowd about non-existent time wasting is embarrassing at times.

  14. #214

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    As said. For all the moaning about the ref, no one is complaining that he wrongly allowed our goal to stand

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    Quote Originally Posted by benjii View Post
    Because he wasn't time wasting. The whinging from our crowd about non-existent time wasting is embarrassing at times.
    If you compared it to the throw-in Valery was booked for against Huddersfield, Fabianski was taking an eternity

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    Quote Originally Posted by Batman View Post
    As said. For all the moaning about the ref, no one is complaining that he wrongly allowed our goal to stand
    I’d imagine most would point to the fact that he would have used his foot to score if he hadn’t been bundled over by the defender and goalkeeer, to be fair.

  17. #217

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    Quote Originally Posted by benjii View Post
    Because he wasn't time wasting. The whinging from our crowd about non-existent time wasting is embarrassing at times.
    Late in the game the ball went out for a goal kick he took 36 seconds from collecting the ball to taking the kick how is that not time wasting

  18. #218

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    Quote Originally Posted by Mosin View Post
    Targett, Most clear cut chances made, most key passes, Most cross attempts, Most long ball attempts, caught in possession 0 times, miss controlled 0 times, tackles made 7, Interceptions 1, 4 clearance's and 1 blocked shot. and yo are picking passing acc, are you doing the same for Redmond who was worst than Targett?

    if you ask me, he was one of the best performers. I blame the team for not covering better, not the young full backs who look to the more exp players around them for help.
    The stats are meaningless.. why don’t you watch the game and form an opinion based on your eyes. Targett has a great cross on him but is a liability defensively. He wonders around in a dream and is too slow for the wing back role.

  19. #219

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    Quote Originally Posted by saint77 View Post
    Late in the game the ball went out for a goal kick he took 36 seconds from collecting the ball to taking the kick how is that not time wasting
    Good lad.

  20. Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Mosin View Post
    Not how I see it. watch from 2:53 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FE_rVen4cOc , I see a clearance dropping to Anderson on the egde of the area, Closest person to him is Redmond as Anderson and the ball are going into Redmonds path, Valery is never getting to him before he pulls the trigger, plus we also have 3 players in the box all in the line of the shot who could have push out faster but didn't, The goal is not Valerys fault.
    That clip starts a few seconds too late, once Valery's lost him. The reason Valery is "never getting to him" is because he let him get away.

  21. #221

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    Quote Originally Posted by saintwbu View Post
    I’d imagine most would point to the fact that he would have used his foot to score if he hadn’t been bundled over by the defender and goalkeeer, to be fair.
    It was handball and we would have been moaning about the ref had that gone against us

  22. #222

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    Quote Originally Posted by Batman View Post
    Pretty much..

    He is/going to be one hell of a player
    From a quick Google search I see he's eligible for ROI and England, with the former trying to lock him up. Over to you Southgate, don't let them nick him.

  23. #223

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    Quote Originally Posted by Chez View Post
    very few attacking options at his disposal. We badly need to bring in an alternative option to Redmond. Bringing Long or Austin off the bench is not enough to change a game. We need to keep adding more flair to the final third, and strength and pace and and and...and better players everywhere.
    Long and Austin combined beautifully to get us a win the other day.

  24. #224

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    Quote Originally Posted by Dark Munster View Post
    From a quick Google search I see he's eligible for ROI and England, with the former trying to lock him up. Over to you Southgate, don't let them nick him.
    Wouldn't exactly be "nicking him". Rice has played for Eire at every youth level and has a couple of senior caps already (in friendlies).

    If he was seriously considering playing for England - where he was born and raised - I think he would've been in the system by now. The FA aren't known for their competence, but I doubt even they'd have let him slip through the net if they were getting any meaningful encouragement from his side.

    His dad's Irish and wants him to play for Ireland. I'd say it's pretty much a done deal.

    Don't worry, though, we'll still have Eric Dier...

    Sent from my F3311 using Tapatalk

  25. #225

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    Quote Originally Posted by Mosin View Post
    The full backs had nothing to do with any of the goas we conceded. so why do you keep banging on about the dam full backs. they are the youngest players on the pitch and they had 0 to do with both goals we conceded...….. Redmond was closest on the first goal and didn't close him down fast enough...……. Valery was like 10 - 15 yards away, Redmond was 3 yards away...…… Poor Valery was still in are goal area...………….. and the 2nd goal was cause Armstrong lost possession after we was all pushed up trying to score a goal. neither goals have any thing to do with the full backs.


    Stop going on abut the full backs, why was Romeu the best dribbler, is that not the ONLY thing Redmond brings? see loads of other stuff you can pick on but you CHOOSE TO PICK ON THE YOUNGSTERS!!!!!!!!!



    Gert a grip.
    you seem a little wound up.. still struggling that Ralph hasn't picked JWP out, as the world beater he is, while still picking Redmond. Valery was awful for the second he was last man and while he was caught on the overload he chose inaction, like a rabbit in headlights, over at least trying to close the man with the ball down.

    As for youngsters I don't care how young they are if you are in the first 11 you need to perform. We are in a relegation scrap we don't have time to slowly bring players through. I was quite happy to praise Valery for his performance against Man U and Arsenal but he was poor against West Ham and so was Targett.

  26. #226

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    Quote Originally Posted by Batman View Post
    It was handball and we would have been moaning about the ref had that gone against us
    Ok. Lets assume that he had got that decision right and disallowed the goal.

    Lets also assume that he had noticed Bednarek being rugby tackled in the penalty area at the corner which led to their second goal. Their second would have been disallowed and we would have had a penalty.

    I would have preferred competent, consistent reffing to the mess that we saw on Thursday night.

    In true Batman style the implication is that all our fans are hypocrites yet in true Batman style you miss the full picture.

  27. #227

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    Quote Originally Posted by Tamesaint View Post
    Ok. Lets assume that he had got that decision right and disallowed the goal.

    Lets also assume that he had noticed Bednarek being rugby tackled in the penalty area at the corner which led to their second goal. Their second would have been disallowed and we would have had a penalty.

    I would have preferred competent, consistent reffing to the mess that we saw on Thursday night.

    In true Batman style the implication is that all our fans are hypocrites yet in true Batman style you miss the full picture.
    If our goal had been rightly ruled out. The game would have been different from then on so no idea if bednarek would have been rugby tackled!!!!

    My point is basically, if you are going to blame the ref, at least be consistent and admit he wrongly allowed West Ham to go behind

  28. Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Batman View Post
    If our goal had been rightly ruled out. The game would have been different from then on so no idea if bednarek would have been rugby tackled!!!!

    My point is basically, if you are going to blame the ref, at least be consistent and admit he wrongly allowed West Ham to go behind
    Lose game = moan about ref. Standard

    Win game = ref had decent game. Standard

    We think Refs are poor as we lose so many!! When actually despite our horrible form past 2 years I'd still say we are winning overall on referee decisions.

  29. Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Heisenberg View Post
    Lose game = moan about ref. Standard

    Win game = ref had decent game. Standard
    True. The ref was poor tbf though wasn't he.

  30. #230

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    Quote Originally Posted by Batman View Post
    It was handball and we would have been moaning about the ref had that gone against us
    The handball has to be a deliberate handball which it wasn't. That's what the rule book states, although the handball rule does need updating imo - such as gaining an advantage from it hitting an arm, deliberate or accidental.

  31. #231

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    Sorry lads but I did warn you about Valery. Being chucked in at the deep end is never a good idea and the poor lad is hopelessly out of his depth.

  32. #232

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    Quote Originally Posted by Saints foreva View Post
    The handball has to be a deliberate handball which it wasn't. That's what the rule book states, although the handball rule does need updating imo - such as gaining an advantage from it hitting an arm, deliberate or accidental.
    Although the rule clearly states handball has to be deliberate, PL referees have been given clear direction this season that no goal should be awarded where the ball has hit an arm. The ref should have therefore disallowed the goal against West Ham according to the PL. The IFAB is discussing changing the Law in 2019, but the PL is not thought to be incorporated, and it has been suggested that the FA was completely wrong to issue this directive.

  33. #233

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    Glasgow Standard

    Lose= Moan about Les for a month

    Win = Hides and pretends he was playing golf and then moans about Les for a few days

    Draw = Claims he put a bet on an equaliser after we went 1 up and then moans abot Les for a week

  34. #234

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  35. Default

    Quote Originally Posted by shurlock View Post


    The Kindergarten Cop is in love I think.

  36. #236

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    Quote Originally Posted by doddisalegend View Post
    you seem a little wound up.. still struggling that Ralph hasn't picked JWP out, as the world beater he is, while still picking Redmond. Valery was awful for the second he was last man and while he was caught on the overload he chose inaction, like a rabbit in headlights, over at least trying to close the man with the ball down.

    As for youngsters I don't care how young they are if you are in the first 11 you need to perform. We are in a relegation scrap we don't have time to slowly bring players through. I was quite happy to praise Valery for his performance against Man U and Arsenal but he was poor against West Ham and so was Targett.
    1/ He's on his own at the back. It's probably right that he's the last man but we didn't seem to have a staggered approach to going forward, we all seemed to lump into the box with no consideration that they were likely to get the ball away.

    2/ He has to make sure he gets the ball as he has 5 on 1 or he delays to lower the angle, make the attacker worry that they still have someone in front of them so they have to get past them/pass past them successfully, he has to try to slow the action down a bit so that other defenders can get back e.g. the speedy Bednarek or Vestergaard (so we probably should keep Yoshi back as he could cope, or SL as he's fast and can't score anyway), he needs to try to make it so that from being outnumbered 5:1 (the goalie doesn't count at this stage as he's too far away) he can either make it 5:2 if need be - so the space is compressed and it's viable to have McCarthy in as someone in the phase of play - or a nippy attacker can look to get to the man on the blindside and put them off. Basically as soon as they break and have their numbers on just him he's on the back foot and anything he gets is either his very good play, and some defenders are that good but we don't have them, the poor play of the attacker or lucky. Yes, he was poor in other areas but he's nowhere near the finished article so we have to expect that. Other players e.g. Targett have had a lot more opportunity and we should hope that they are sufficiently blooded and capable to be able to improve to the requisite standard. Either way, let's forget it and see how he and we do over the rest of the season. I think RH is the best manager we've had since administration so we're covered on that front. We might need a few more of the old guard in terms of the backroom staff to move in the summer though.

  37. #237

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    Quote Originally Posted by shurlock View Post
    Feeling left out tubs?
    Post that pic of those two fat blokes in bed again.... Your special fantasy

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