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Thread: Mario Lemina - Loaned to Galatasaray: Official

  1. #501

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    Quote Originally Posted by egg View Post
    I'll answer your last question first. All of your 'points' are difficult to comprehend.

    Why does forster have to want to play beyond this £4m a year 5 year contract matter to you or the club? It's irrelevant - he is contracted to the club and could, if he chooses, choose to then retire a wealthy man. Ditto Austin beyond his lucrative contract. The club have given them that opportunity, and their ages put them in a very different position to Lemina and Gallagher who clearly have to think about their future careers.

    Austin and Forster are fulfilling their contractual obligations - they stay in good enough shape, train and are available if/when called on to play. They aren't 'parasites' as you label them, rather players who aren't good enough to play for us but are too well paid to get a move that is worth them moving on. Contrary to your apparent belief, their contracts mean that they choose if they move, not the club.

    The fact that they have those contracts is the clubs fault, not the players. Your anger is aimed in the wrong direction - the fact that we're stuck with overpaid players is not down to 'parasite' players.

    Is that so difficult to comprehend???
    He seems to be convinced that employees have a moral obligation to their employer but not the other way round. First against the wall when the workers finally revolt.

  2. #502

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    Quote Originally Posted by verlaine1979 View Post
    He seems to be convinced that employees have a moral obligation to their employer but not the other way round. First against the wall when the workers finally revolt.
    Though the power relationship appears to go all one-way in football. Play well and you lobby for a move despite your contract. Play badly and then your contract becomes the most sacred thing in the world.

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    Quote Originally Posted by shurlock View Post
    Though the power relationship appears to go all one-way in football. Play well and you lobby for a move despite your contract. Play badly and then your contract becomes the most sacred thing in the world.
    Like any other job. Football clubs actually have more power over their employees than in any other industry I can think of

  4. #504

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    Quote Originally Posted by shurlock View Post
    Though the power relationship appears to go all one-way in football. Play well and you lobby for a move despite your contract. Play badly and then your contract becomes the most sacred thing in the world.
    I wonder if clubs would be happy for players to move to an at-will model of employment?

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    Hard to tell where we are on this front. Reports are Utd werenít really interested, so we could assume Arsenal & Leicester are unlikely as well.

    That leaves just the rumoured Atalanta loan offer that was rejected.

  6. #506

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    Quote Originally Posted by Ex Lion Tamer View Post
    Like any other job. Football clubs actually have more power over their employees than in any other industry I can think of
    You obviously don’t know how US professional sports, especially the NFL are run then.
    Last edited by shurlock; 15-07-2019 at 09:02 AM.

  7. #507

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    Quote Originally Posted by shurlock View Post
    You obviously don’t know how US professional sports, especially the NFL are run then.
    Indeed, it is extremely rare that players have any sort of power - if you look at what happened to Le'Veon last season, he's ended up on a worse team, on less money. Similar might happen to Melvin Gordon if he doesn't toe the line this season.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Ex Lion Tamer View Post
    Like any other job. Football clubs actually have more power over their employees than in any other industry I can think of
    In theory yes, but in practice not. There has to be pragmatism, which includes on the player's side. If he can't get his move, then he will have to knuckle down.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Unbelievable Jeff View Post
    Indeed, it is extremely rare that players have any sort of power - if you look at what happened to Le'Veon last season, he's ended up on a worse team, on less money. Similar might happen to Melvin Gordon if he doesn't toe the line this season.
    Yep never mind that most contracts guarantee only a portion of a player’s salary. That is players can sign huge contracts but teams can then cut them if they are not performing and will only be on the hook for a small amount of money. See Donovan McNabb a few years back.

    Frankly I have far more respect for a Le’Veon Bell (who was protecting his body in a position with a notoriously short shelf-life, knowing that the Steelers were going to run into him the ground and then likely move on from him) and Melvin Gordon (who has been playing on a depressed rookie contract and earning peanuts in relative terms) than any footballer who threatens to go on strike or demands a transfer despite having agreed to a contract and all the security it brings.

  10. Default

    Quote Originally Posted by shurlock View Post
    Though the power relationship appears to go all one-way in football. Play well and you lobby for a move despite your contract. Play badly and then your contract becomes the most sacred thing in the world.
    Well put. That does seem to sum up the current status of player power.

  11. #511

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    Quote Originally Posted by shurlock View Post
    Yep never mind that most contracts guarantee only a portion of a player’s salary. That is players can sign huge contracts but teams can then cut them if they are not performing and will only be on the hook for a small amount of money. See Donovan McNabb a few years back.

    Frankly I have far more respect for a Le’Veon Bell (who was protecting his body in a position with a notoriously short shelf-life, knowing that the Steelers were going to run into him the ground and then likely move on from him) and Melvin Gordon (who has been playing on a depressed rookie contract and earning peanuts in relative terms) than any footballer who threatens to go on strike or demands a transfer despite having agreed to a contract and all the security it brings.
    Let's stick to English football pal.

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    Quote Originally Posted by iansums View Post
    Let's stick to English football pal.

    Wind your neck in pal. Someone else started talking about other industries. I simply pointed to a related industry where employers hold much more power. Even Derek could follow that.
    Last edited by shurlock; 15-07-2019 at 10:34 AM.

  13. #513

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    Quote Originally Posted by shurlock View Post
    Wind your neck in pal.
    I would suggest you do the same but it doesn't look like you have one........pal.

  14. #514

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    Lol

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    Quote Originally Posted by shurlock View Post
    You obviously don’t know how US professional sports, especially the NFL are run then.
    I meant outside of the sporting industry

  16. #516

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    Quote Originally Posted by shurlock View Post
    Yep never mind that most contracts guarantee only a portion of a player’s salary. That is players can sign huge contracts but teams can then cut them if they are not performing and will only be on the hook for a small amount of money. See Donovan McNabb a few years back.

    Frankly I have far more respect for a Le’Veon Bell (who was protecting his body in a position with a notoriously short shelf-life, knowing that the Steelers were going to run into him the ground and then likely move on from him) and Melvin Gordon (who has been playing on a depressed rookie contract and earning peanuts in relative terms) than any footballer who threatens to go on strike or demands a transfer despite having agreed to a contract and all the security it brings.
    True, though it helps that if you play any of the US's three main sports, their leagues are really the only game in town. So only around 20 team owners need to collude to minimize player power. To achieve the same shift back to the owners in world football you'd need a much greater degree of cooperation, otherwise the best players would simply decamp to a competing league at the first sniff of a wage cap or other contractual shennanigans.

  17. #517

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    Quote Originally Posted by Ex Lion Tamer View Post
    I meant outside of the sporting industry
    Anyone with a restrictive contract? How about the music industry where you could sign an exclusive contract with one particular music company?

  18. Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Whitey Grandad View Post
    Anyone with a restrictive contract? How about the music industry where you could sign an exclusive contract with one particular music company?
    Good example, though we're getting away from the point that people are whinging about players having too much power when players actually have less power than 90% of employees

  19. #519

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    Quote Originally Posted by shurlock View Post
    Yep never mind that most contracts guarantee only a portion of a player’s salary. That is players can sign huge contracts but teams can then cut them if they are not performing and will only be on the hook for a small amount of money. See Donovan McNabb a few years back.

    Frankly I have far more respect for a Le’Veon Bell (who was protecting his body in a position with a notoriously short shelf-life, knowing that the Steelers were going to run into him the ground and then likely move on from him) and Melvin Gordon (who has been playing on a depressed rookie contract and earning peanuts in relative terms) than any footballer who threatens to go on strike or demands a transfer despite having agreed to a contract and all the security it brings.
    Absolutely, but it shows how little power these players have - and when you see what happened to players like Earl Thomas when they play on without those contracts it actually doesn't seem fair...there's a balance needed.

  20. Default Fiorentina Looking Towards Arsenal and Man Utd Linked Mario Lemina


  21. #521

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    Quote Originally Posted by SuperSAINT View Post
    Hopefully his head has been turned by their interest.

  22. Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Dusic View Post
    Hopefully his head has been turned by their interest.
    Finished 16th last season in Serie A though...

    Not sure that sounds like it would put the fizz into #TonicLikeLeminade

  23. #523

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    Quote Originally Posted by SuperSAINT View Post
    Finished 16th last season in Serie A though...

    Not sure that sounds like it would put the fizz into #TonicLikeLeminade
    Totally agree, but there comes a point though where 'beggars can't be choosers', and if he want to play he needs to decide whether he really is going to get better options than what he's already got. Sometimes players can freeze themselves out because they listen to paper and agent talk, when there's not much substance. I'm not saying this is the case with Mario, but lets be honest, as far as we can tell the phone has not been ringing of the hook at SMS since he announced he was ready to join a bigger project.

    Jose Fonte, head turned by Man Utd, ended up at WHU and then China. The grass is not always greener.

  24. #524

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    Quote Originally Posted by Micky View Post
    Totally agree, but there comes a point though where 'beggars can't be choosers', and if he want to play he needs to decide whether he really is going to get better options than what he's already got. Sometimes players can freeze themselves out because they listen to paper and agent talk, when there's not much substance. I'm not saying this is the case with Mario, but lets be honest, as far as we can tell the phone has not been ringing of the hook at SMS since he announced he was ready to join a bigger project.

    Jose Fonte, head turned by Man Utd, ended up at WHU and then China. The grass is not always greener.
    Also it depends what represents success for them. A 3 year contract worth £15m or being a central player in a team that competes to win the biggest trophies.

    It didn’t work out for Morgan did it.... moving from us was effectively career ending from a football perspective

  25. #525

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    Quote Originally Posted by Micky View Post
    Totally agree, but there comes a point though where 'beggars can't be choosers', and if he want to play he needs to decide whether he really is going to get better options than what he's already got. Sometimes players can freeze themselves out because they listen to paper and agent talk, when there's not much substance. I'm not saying this is the case with Mario, but lets be honest, as far as we can tell the phone has not been ringing of the hook at SMS since he announced he was ready to join a bigger project.

    Jose Fonte, head turned by Man Utd, ended up at WHU and then China. The grass is not always greener.
    think he is soon seeing around the situation.

    on his Instagram story he was rocking our kit and training in the gym (and as per also miming some awful French rap music),

    think he may well see one more year out with us now that interest has fallen slightly, and hopefully he will play even better than last 2 years combined- that'll really get him in the shop window and we'd probably accept £22m then given he'd only have 2 years left (along with our gentlemens agreement I suppose)

  26. Default

    Quote Originally Posted by nta786 View Post
    think he is soon seeing around the situation.

    on his Instagram story he was rocking our kit and training in the gym (and as per also miming some awful French rap music),

    think he may well see one more year out with us now that interest has fallen slightly, and hopefully he will play even better than last 2 years combined- that'll really get him in the shop window and we'd probably accept £22m then given he'd only have 2 years left (along with our gentlemens agreement I suppose)
    It’s an unusual situation where one of our big players has asked to leave & we’ve said “yeah, ok” - But the interest hasn’t been what he (& us) would want.

    He’s not been great but has his moments. Bit of a YouTube player.

    I’m sure we would love to sell him, but don’t see any of these large valuations being met.

  27. #527

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    Quote Originally Posted by Micky View Post
    Jose Fonte, head turned by Man Utd, ended up at WHU and then China. The grass is not always greener.
    Fonte is a key part of a Lille side that came 2nd last season and in the Champions League!

  28. #528

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    Quote Originally Posted by Matthew Le God View Post
    Fonte is a key part of a Lille side that came 2nd last season and in the Champions League!
    He also added a UEFA Nations League winner's medal to his European Championship winner's medal and was voted in the Ligue 1 team of the season. In fact, he's just had the best season of his career so far.

  29. Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Micky View Post

    Jose Fonte, head turned by Man Utd, ended up at WHU and then China. The grass is not always greener.
    Worst grass is not greener example.....

    JF went to WHU earned more, then China and earned even more. Then 2nd in French league + CL football.

    Not forgetting winning UNL with portugal.

    Seems grass is very much greener.

  30. #530

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    Quote Originally Posted by Heisenberg View Post
    Worst grass is not greener example.....

    JF went to WHU earned more, then China and earned even more. Then 2nd in French league + CL football.

    Not forgetting winning UNL with portugal.

    Seems grass is very much greener.
    We could see him playing in England again this season as his Lille team, which he captained to the best defensive record in the league, are through to the group stage of the Champions League with a good chance of being drawn in the same group as one of the English clubs.

  31. #531

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    Quote Originally Posted by Heisenberg View Post
    Worst grass is not greener example.....

    JF went to WHU earned more, then China and earned even more. Then 2nd in French league + CL football.

    Not forgetting winning UNL with portugal.

    Seems grass is very much greener.
    The point I was making was that he thought he was heading towards more Premiership football at Old Trafford, instead ended up at an Athletics stadium where he fared pretty badly and was then offloaded to China. If your looking at the wonga only, fine he probably did ok - but he missed the club that he originally thought was interested, by some distance.

  32. Default

    Arsenal set to sign Ceballos on loan from Real Madrid.

    So thatís their central midfielder sorted.

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    Twitter buzz about Saint-Etienne being interested... I canít find where it originated though to know if itís a credible link.

  34. #534

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    Quote Originally Posted by SuperSAINT View Post
    Twitter buzz about Saint-Etienne being interested... I canít find where it originated though to know if itís a credible link.
    https://www.goal.com/fr/news/mercato...61tjjsnaydn6xu

    Sent from my Nokia 6.1 using Tapatalk

  35. Default

    Quote Originally Posted by SaintJackoInHurworth View Post
    Cheers.

  36. Default Wolves interested in Lemina?

    https://www.skysports.com/football/n...r-mario-lemina

    (Legit? or an attempt to make money for Sky Bet?)

  37. #537

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    Quote Originally Posted by SuperSAINT View Post
    https://www.skysports.com/football/n...r-mario-lemina

    (Legit? or an attempt to make money for Sky Bet?)
    If you're enough of a mug to bet on football transfers based on dubious media reports, you deserve to lose your money IMO.

  38. #538

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    Quote Originally Posted by SuperSAINT View Post
    https://www.skysports.com/football/n...r-mario-lemina

    (Legit? or an attempt to make money for Sky Bet?)
    If you're enough of a mug to bet on football transfers based on dubious media reports, you deserve to lose your money IMO.

  39. Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Lighthouse View Post
    If you're enough of a mug to bet on football transfers based on dubious media reports, you deserve to lose your money IMO.
    There's enough people that do.

  40. #540

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    Quote Originally Posted by SuperSAINT View Post
    https://www.skysports.com/football/n...r-mario-lemina

    (Legit? or an attempt to make money for Sky Bet?)
    Chance for him to play in Europe again, I guess. He may see that as a step up and they're a decent side but Arsenal or Man Utd they ain't.

  41. #541

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    Pretty sure sky have sold their stake in skybet or almost all of it at least

  42. #542

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    Quote Originally Posted by SuperSAINT View Post
    Arsenal set to sign Ceballos on loan from Real Madrid.

    So thatís their central midfielder sorted.
    Until Asensio did his ACL. Emery seems to think that might throw a spanner in the Ceballos loan deal. Lemina could be within budget for them given they havenít been in the CL for 2 years. Would be a gamble but he might be more motivated there.

  43. #543

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    Wolves now?

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    Quote Originally Posted by saint1977 View Post
    Until Asensio did his ACL. Emery seems to think that might throw a spanner in the Ceballos loan deal. Lemina could be within budget for them given they haven’t been in the CL for 2 years. Would be a gamble but he might be more motivated there.
    Hasn’t caused an issue. Ceballos has just signed for Arsenal, on loan.

  45. #545

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    Our bargaining position is pretty poor on this one as we have made clear we don't want him and he has somewhat severed any relationship with Saints fans.

    Wonder though, if nobody makes a suitable offer to buy him whether we would prefer to get him out on loan, or would try to re-integrate him?

    Also, with neither JWP nor Romeu training this week, presume injured, would this make any difference to the above?

  46. Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Lighthouse View Post
    If you're enough of a mug to bet on football transfers based on dubious media reports, you deserve to lose your money IMO.
    Guess who’s had a sudden load of bets & now favourites to sign him

  47. #547

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  48. #548

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    Quote Originally Posted by Danbert View Post
    Not entirely fair... Lemina played in all 14 of Mark Hughes shambles of league games and was injured for a lot of Hasenhuttl's turnaround of the season.

  49. #549

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    I for one do hope that this all blows over and Mario can be reintergrated into the squad when the squad return next week.

  50. #550

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    Quote Originally Posted by davefizzy14 View Post
    I for one do hope that this all blows over and Mario can be reintergrated into the squad when the squad return next week.
    Why? He’s made it clear he doesn’t want to play for us. He’s not all that and spends more time off sick than Toby A did.

    I hope we sell the pr*ck.

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