Cardiff/Sala - Missing Plane

[supersonic]

I read the other day that although he was insured Cardiff would be £13m down as agents fees, tax, other payments. I think it said total cost was about 30m Ill try and find it was on work forum.

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this what you are looking for: https://www.insuranceinsider.com/art...aller-for-16mn

As the policy will cover "Accidental Death" I think this will cover the flight, even if there are certain questions surrounding the legality of those involved.

Still set to lose an awful amount of money and, by the sounds of it, they aren't exactly being the easiest people to deal with!

Most clubs I know (and deal/dealt with) don't bother having a policy in place such as Cardiff do/did for Sala's fee, even those in the PL who regularly spend far more than this amount on players! I suggest this approach may well change now...

[Saint Albert]

If Cardiff fail to pay, they may face a points deduction...

https://www.telegraph.co.uk/football...antes-missing/

[Saint_clark]

As much as it is very insensitive (at least on the surface) to threaten legal action before the bodies have even been recovered, there is no real reason Cardiff shouldn't be paying the money - if the plane hadn't gone down they would have been paying it anyway so they can't now claim they can't afford it, and i'm sure there's someone in their finance department who isn't too upset about the whole thing that's able to transfer the money.

[devonsaint]

BBC have just reported that it's been confirmed that it's Sala's body which has been recovered.

[Saint-Armstrong]

Dorset Police have just announced on their website that the body recovered from the aircraft wreckage has been formally identified by the coroner as Emiliano Sala.

https://www.dorset.police.uk/news-in...83f84.17855404

[SFC Forever]

Beggars the question of where is the pilot?.

Once formalities are over at least Salas' family will have chance of closure. R.I.P Emiliano.

[Saint_clark]

Beggars the question of where is the pilot?.

Once formalities are over at least Salas' family will have chance of closure. R.I.P Emiliano.

Plane looked pretty damaged, possible the cockpit was ripped open on impact...? Or he had enough about him to get out as it was sinking.

[SNSUN]

Not that I know much about anything (but this thread has been interesting reading by the Professionals, thanks) but I'd guess that the body belongs to Ibbotson. I'd assume he was doing all he could as the plane hit the water, so wouldn't have had time to react or get out his seat. Sala meanwhile may have been unseatbelted and trying to get a life vest on or just panicking. All speculation of course, but the fact those cushions were found in Northern France means there was either a door open or the fuselage or the plane was ripped open, and logic would dictate than anyone not in a seatbelt would have been washed away.

Anyway that's my detective work, probably all wrong, but seemingly feasible. The other body may still be in there and they just can't see it's yet, but I feel it's possible they'll never find the other body. Which IMO would be Salas.

Well I was wrong in a 50:50 punt, but it does beg the question, where is the pilot, and did he bail?

RIP Emiliano.

[Saints foreva]

RIP Emiliano.

[angelman]

As much as it is very insensitive (at least on the surface) to threaten legal action before the bodies have even been recovered, there is no real reason Cardiff shouldn't be paying the money - if the plane hadn't gone down they would have been paying it anyway so they can't now claim they can't afford it, and i'm sure there's someone in their finance department who isn't too upset about the whole thing that's able to transfer the money.

Martin Samuel has a piece today, where he states "Nantes have put in their bill for the first part of the payment, because they owe Bordeaux a sell-on fee, plus a queue of agents their cut. Cardiff insist they will pay no fees — the first instalment is usually due seven days after any deal is completed — until the investigation into the crash is over." He then correctly goes on to question what investigation, and that it might take a long time. https://www.dailymail.co.uk/sport/fo...ot-idiots.html

It is a tricky time, but the world doesn't come to a stop because of this tragedy. Nantes are in a tricky position of a richer club coming in and buying their best player and seemingly now refusing to pay, leaving them with liabilities owing to other parties. One might almost suspect that Cardiff didn't have their paperwork in order with their insurance company.

[derry]

Martin Samuel has a piece today, where he states "Nantes have put in their bill for the first part of the payment, because they owe Bordeaux a sell-on fee, plus a queue of agents their cut. Cardiff insist they will pay no fees — the first instalment is usually due seven days after any deal is completed — until the investigation into the crash is over." He then correctly goes on to question what investigation, and that it might take a long time. https://www.dailymail.co.uk/sport/fo...ot-idiots.html

It is a tricky time, but the world doesn't come to a stop because of this tragedy. Nantes are in a tricky position of a richer club coming in and buying their best player and seemingly now refusing to pay, leaving them with liabilities owing to other parties. One might almost suspect that Cardiff didn't have their paperwork in order with their insurance company.

I suspect that the insurance company are awaiting an accident report. There has to be at the very least a deep suspicion of a criminal act due to the use of an American registered aircraft/ownership, the qualifications of the pilot, the single pilot and not least the flight undertaken in a single engine aircraft at night plus who paid for the flight and related expenses and how they did that. Nobody has as yet cast any light on the report that the apparently regular pilot of this aircraft (video circa 2015) going through passport control, not going on the flight and maybe not even being there. This whole operation stinks. The agents and both football clubs come out of this badly. Hidden ownership of the aircraft is very suspicious because under US law only US citizens can own a US registered aircraft. I'm just waiting for an insurance company to come out and wash their hands of any claim.

[supersonic]

Cardiff had their paperwork in check with the insurers, but the insurer will, obviously, want to do their own investigations into this.

Still, that's a matte between CC and their Insurers, not Nantes who are rightly owed their money.

[derry]

I suspect that the insurance company are awaiting an accident report. There has to be at the very least a deep suspicion of a criminal act due to the use of an American registered aircraft/ownership, the qualifications of the pilot, the single pilot and not least the flight undertaken in a single engine aircraft at night plus who paid for the flight and related expenses and how they did that. Nobody has as yet cast any light on the report that the apparently regular pilot of this aircraft (video circa 2015) going through passport control, not going on the flight and maybe not even being there. This whole operation stinks. The agents and both football clubs come out of this badly. Hidden ownership of the aircraft is very suspicious because under US law only US citizens can own a US registered aircraft. I'm just waiting for an insurance company to come out and wash their hands of any claim.

Another issue will be the result of an inquest which I think will be adjourned until the final report is published. Then everybody will want to be legally represented. Manufacturers of aircraft, engines and equipment, pilots, operator, owner, and all associated businesses, insurance companies, all employing legal teams to try to pin the blame and some hoping for an unlawful killing verdict to open the floodgates and pin it on the pilot, owner, operator, charterer etc. It will not be about who did what, it will all be about who can sue who for what with the target being the deepest pockets.

[Saint_clark]

It doesn't matter what happens with regards to an investigation or legal responsibility, or indeed if an insurance company will pay out or not. If the plane hadn't gone down Cardiff would have had to pay, so they must have that money available - so why are they not paying?
They'll quickly lose sympathy from the footballing community if they try to use this tragedy to save themselves from having to pay out some money...

[Soton7]

https://twitter.com/ccfcben/status/1...383733760?s=21

Disgraceful by these “fans”.

[Crab Lungs]

https://twitter.com/ccfcben/status/1...383733760?s=21

Disgraceful by these “fans”.

This club really has a a massive swell of bellends.

[Batman]

This club really has a a massive swell of bellends.

a whole 2?

[Crab Lungs]

a whole 2?

Look at this place. And on Twitter, Instagram. Absolute morons. People blaming Bertrand solely for the loss and others agreeing. Just so many stupid stupid people.

As for that tw4t making the gestures, I hope he got filled in, I really do.

[simo]

Look at this place. And on Twitter, Instagram. Absolute morons. People blaming Bertrand solely for the loss and others agreeing. Just so many stupid stupid people.

As for that tw4t making the gestures, I hope he got filled in, I really do.

Show me where Bertrand has solely been blamed ?

[Morse]

This club really has a a massive swell of bellends.

Oh get over yourself. Liverpool fans giving it large over Munich. Man U giving it large over Hillsborough etc etc… Welcome to football. FWIW I feel great sympathy for Salas family and friends at this tragedy as anyone would. But as far as i'm aware he never met his team mates, never met any fans, and never set foot in Cardiff. The only 'loss' to Cardiff is on the balance sheet.

[wessex saint]

Oh get over yourself. Liverpool fans giving it large over Munich. Man U giving it large over Hillsborough etc etc… Welcome to football. FWIW I feel great sympathy for Salas family and friends at this tragedy as anyone would. But as far as i'm aware he never met his team mates, never met any fans, and never set foot in Cardiff. The only 'loss' to Cardiff is on the balance sheet.

don’t agree with the bell ends winding up the Cardiff fans, but Christ. Have a look on YouTube and see footage off Liverpool giving it about Munich on a regular basis I ( and in their hundreds).
Chelsea and West Ham with anti Semitic chants.
We have 2 fans being dicks.
And this fake outpouring of grief is frankly laughable. Not seen anything like it since princess Di.
No one in England had even heard of him before the crash! He means absolutely nothing to these people who end every sentence with #prayforsala. 99% of them don’t believe in god or go to church anyway. So why all of a sudden pray?

Personally, I’m gonna make it my mission to have a minutes silence at the next game for the pilot. He has also been tragically lost and his family don’t have the comfort of at least the body being recovered.




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[angelman]

https://www.dailymail.co.uk/sport/fo...iano-Sala.html

Some people have a very strange idea of what acceptable banter is.

[Saint_clark]

https://www.dailymail.co.uk/sport/fo...iano-Sala.html

Some people have a very strange idea of what acceptable banter is.

They are utter morons, sick individuals and it is in incredibly poor taste, I think we can all agree.
But I still cringe at the idea of arresting people for something like that.

[Saints foreva]

https://www.dailymail.co.uk/sport/fo...iano-Sala.html

Some people have a very strange idea of what acceptable banter is.

Hope the club ban them for life.

[angelman]

Southampton Football Club can confirm that two fans were detained and had their details taken by police during our match against Cardiff City on Saturday. The Club will continue to work with Hampshire Police to identify any individuals deemed to have made indecent gestures towards Cardiff supporters. Such behaviour has no place in our game and will not be tolerated at St. Mary’s. The club will be taking an extremely firm stance against anyone involved and intends to ban those supporters identified.

[Dark Munster]

This club really has a a massive swell of bellends.

Apart from the 30,000 of them who respectfully observed the minute's silence today.

[LGTL]

Disgraceful actions but find it strange how you can arrest/ban someone for that?

[scotty]

don’t agree with the bell ends winding up the Cardiff fans, but Christ. Have a look on YouTube and see footage off Liverpool giving it about Munich on a regular basis I ( and in their hundreds).
Chelsea and West Ham with anti Semitic chants.
We have 2 fans being dicks.
And this fake outpouring of grief is frankly laughable. Not seen anything like it since princess Di.
No one in England had even heard of him before the crash! He means absolutely nothing to these people who end every sentence with #prayforsala. 99% of them don’t believe in god or go to church anyway. So why all of a sudden pray?

Personally, I’m gonna make it my mission to have a minutes silence at the next game for the pilot. He has also been tragically lost and his family don’t have the comfort of at least the body being recovered.




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Quite. It was a tragic incident, and of course people feel for Sala and Ibbotson, but the "Forever a Bluebird" banners are risible in the extreme. As for the pair of tw*ts making plane gestures, you aren't going to get a group of 30000 fans together without a few knobs in it, it's not as if they physically attacked anyone. I've seen the twitter threads, christ on a bike, talk about overreacting, wait til they see frankie boyle's take on it.

[Saint_clark]

Disgraceful actions but find it strange how you can arrest/ban someone for that?

Bit of a dangerous precedent to set. Careful how you stretch your arms lads, a picture taken at just the wrong time...

[Hatch]

if you start banning people for being stupid St Mary's will be empty in two years time.

[Batman]

they have not done anything illegal??

[JRM]

I feel sorry for Sala and his family, but no sympathy at all for Cardiff City, their feigned outpouring of grief for someone they didn’t know and now the predictable feigned outrage taking offence at a couple of plane impressions.
Fair play Warnock knows what he’s doing to use it to galvanise a survival battle spirit and use it to their advantage.

Talking about banning people is ridiculous and the usual social media witch hunt.

[Joneth]

Not having this 'it's just banter' reaction. These morons knew what they were doing, they knew it was stupid so just show some respect. We don't need people like that at St Mary's and if anyone else feels a twitch to do something like that then do yourself a favour and ban yourself.
This sort of thing happens at Anfield and Stamford Bridge. Not here.

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[aintforever]

You always get a couple of idiots in a crowd of that size, not worth wetting your pants over.

[Shandy_Top_89]

Bit alarmed at the number of people saying they shouldn’t be banned.

They should never set foot in St Mary’s again, it would be an acceptable punishment.

People are right that we aren’t as bad as Liverpool, Chelsea etc. Let’s keep it that way rather than working towards the lowest common denominator.

[Greenridge]

they have not done anything illegal??

May come under ‘outraging public decency’ law

[st alex]

Quite. It was a tragic incident, and of course people feel for Sala and Ibbotson, but the "Forever a Bluebird" banners are risible in the extreme. As for the pair of tw*ts making plane gestures, you aren't going to get a group of 30000 fans together without a few knobs in it, it's not as if they physically attacked anyone. I've seen the twitter threads, christ on a bike, talk about overreacting, wait til they see frankie boyle's take on it.

But Sala was a multimillionaire, so we have to pretend to be distraught as his life was substantially more important than Ibbotson's or the hundreds of others that die in accidents everyday in the UK.

Crocodile tears are this year's must have trend.

[S-Clarke]

It's embarrassing when you see we have fans who'd do something like that. There really are some pointless human beings on this planet.

But am I alone in thinking all the sympathy towards Cardiff on this is a bit, well, OTT? He'd never set foot in their changing room, he'd never been named as a player in their squad, 99% of their fans would have never watched him play. The tragedy is for his family and friends, it's nothing to do with Cardiff and I don't like to see them jumping on board.

I'd say Nantes should be the club and fans who should have any sympathy directed towards them, not Cardiff. They need to let it go and let the people who were really part of Sala's life mourn him

[LGTL]

It's embarrassing when you see we have fans who'd do something like that. There really are some pointless human beings on this planet.

But am I alone in thinking all the sympathy towards Cardiff on this is a bit, well, OTT? He'd never set foot in their changing room, he'd never been named as a player in their squad, 99% of their fans would have never watched him play. The tragedy is for his family and friends, it's nothing to do with Cardiff and I don't like to see them jumping on board.

I'd say Nantes should be the club and fans who should have any sympathy directed towards them, not Cardiff. They need to let it go and let the people who were really part of Sala's life mourn him

Quite. In fact, from what I’ve seen and heard from his family, they don’t seem particularly comfortable with the OTT reaction from Cardiff.

[Matthew Le God]

3 morons in a crowd of 31,438 = 0.009% morons

99.991% of the crowd observed the minute*silence respectfully... but*that isn't an interesting story for the media.

The morons represent themselves, not the club or other Saints fans!

[Micky]

As others have said, you're going to get them in most crowds. Unfortunately social media only helps to fuel the fire in some respects, looking at Twitter (which I don't do very often) you can see that a lot of the posts really aren't bothered about the two individuals concerned, they're simply other teams fans having a dig.
The 2 guys that did this were way out of line, I hope they get a ban of some length, but to say they deserve life bans is ott. I was at WBA last season for the Cyrille Regis tribute game, an hour of tribute and celebration of his life, Saints fans were impeccably behaved and took part throughout. We are not the ogres that some are trying to make us out to be on social media.

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[shurlock]

3 morons in a crowd of 31,438 = 0.009% morons

99.991% of the crowd observed the minute*silence respectfully... but*that isn't an interesting story for the media.

The morons represent themselves, not the club or other Saints fans!

Do you think that’s what Liam Neeson said pal?

[Greenridge]

Do you think that’s what Liam Neeson said pal?

I’m more concerned that MLG has only quoted to 3 decimal places. Very sloppy.

[derry]

I see that the owners of the aircraft which is registered by Southern Aircraft Consultancy Inc according to the Mail have been removed or withheld from the FAA in what appears to be a concerted attempt to keep their identity secret.

[doddisalegend]

****ty thing to do but the reaction to some **** head waving his arms about seems a bit OTT. Its hardly indicative of all saints fans is it? It was noticeable during the minutes silence at the beginning of the game the only people making noise where a few Cardiff fans including some guy shouting at people "to shut the **** up"...

[OldNick]

As others have said, you're going to get them in most crowds. Unfortunately social media only helps to fuel the fire in some respects, looking at Twitter (which I don't do very often) you can see that a lot of the posts really aren't bothered about the two individuals concerned, they're simply other teams fans having a dig.
The 2 guys that did this were way out of line, I hope they get a ban of some length, but to say they deserve life bans is ott. I was at WBA last season for the Cyrille Regis tribute game, an hour of tribute and celebration of his life, Saints fans were impeccably behaved and took part throughout. We are not the ogres that some are trying to make us out to be on social media.

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all the England fans who do the dambusters stuff, thousands died with that raid. Sala has got them more points due to his tragedy than if he had played. Look at the deaths register in Southampton every week and you see more tragedy than this event, young kids who never have had a life pass away. It seems we all trip over ourselves to show people that we really are nice.The 2 fans made a misjudgement, Im sure they regret it now. I own up to singing the how many lived and how many doed song with hundreds of others when standing under the east stand by the \United fans, I see how bad that was now, but then I was young and stupid. I also recall songs sung to Ossie Ardiles about his cousin who died at the Falklands. It was 2 fans , the media just need a story and they don't care whose life they mess up. Sanitisation of society, is underway, 20-30 years time I do wonder that meat eaters will be picked out as being the ogres of society.

[St Lej]

Look at this place. And on Twitter, Instagram. Absolute morons. People blaming Bertrand solely for the loss and others agreeing. Just so many stupid stupid people.

As for that tw4t making the gestures, I hope he got filled in, I really do.

You’ve taken yesterday’s defeat really really badly haven’t you. We are all annoyed about the result yesterday and yes those two blokes are utter morons but get a grip of yourself. Stop being all precious just because we aren’t very good and lost at home to Cardiff. It’s annoying but you’re acting like a total princess flooding this forum with your anger.

[DuncanRG]

Sala has got them more points due to his tragedy than if he had played.

What a crass thing to say.

[shurlock]

all the England fans who do the dambusters stuff, thousands died with that raid. Sala has got them more points due to his tragedy than if he had played. Look at the deaths register in Southampton every week and you see more tragedy than this event, young kids who never have had a life pass away. It seems we all trip over ourselves to show people that we really are nice.The 2 fans made a misjudgement, Im sure they regret it now. I own up to singing the how many lived and how many doed song with hundreds of others when standing under the east stand by the \United fans, I see how bad that was now, but then I was young and stupid. I also recall songs sung to Ossie Ardiles about his cousin who died at the Falklands. It was 2 fans , the media just need a story and they don't care whose life they mess up. Sanitisation of society, is underway, 20-30 years time I do wonder that meat eaters will be picked out as being the ogres of society.

Good lad.

[benjii]

I see Mbappe has donated 30k Euro to the family of the pilot to help with their search.

How much have Cardiff City donated to his family?