Saints 1 Cardiff City 2 post match dissection

[OldNick]

I seriously don't get this argument. It is something a couple of people have mentioned in defence now.

Overall as a squad we have pretty poor to average players. We all can agree on that? The proof is in the results we have had with the squad over the past few seasons. We are where we are for multiple reasons but one of the main ones is that the players have simply not been good enough.

Now if you have a poor squad, you remove players from that squad, you add nobody. How does that make us better exactly? This I can't get my head around at all how people can think that. Getting rid of Hoedt (which I agree with) doesn't make Stephens a better player. Getting rid of Cedric doesn't make Valery a better player. Getting rid of Gabbi doesn't make Long/Austin/Gallagher a better player and so forth.

We have a bloated squad, but January is not the time to get rid of players if you have nobody coming in to replace them until the end of the season. We have removed the ability to give us further options if needed. Imagine we didn't have the option of Gabbi for that Swansea game? We would have gone down.

The old saying of better to have them and not need them than need them and not have them sums it up for me.

I wonder if you don't get the sense that the club is short of money like |I do. We are cutting budgets everywhere and Iam concerned that there is an underlying financial problem brewing. Les employed 3 managers who were paid of, perhaps 10-15m add to that the purchases of deadwood who are out on loan on big wages. The actions were perhaps not only to trim the squad but also to get our costs down. RH seemed to have steadied the boat and felt we could cope without Cedric and the failing Gabbi. The tragedy has inspired Cardiff to winn 2 in a row, we now have to gain 2 more points than them in the next 12 games. Frankly if we cant then we get what we deserve. Some of the fans thought Puels team wasn't good enough for them, well its not time to turn on the 4th manager in a row, as if we do it says more about us than the club itself

[S-Clarke]

For nearly three seasons now the core of this squad has by and large failed miserably in games like this. All this “cold light of day/24 hrs later” stuff about it not being that bad has been going on match after match in all that time.

Bertrand, Stephens, Romeu, PEH, Ward-Prowse, Redmond, Austin, Long - they have all been in and around the starting eleven that have ****ed up home wins that would have eased our plight, but no every single time they bottle it and play like bloody snowflakes.

Its not good enough and if somehow we do stay up this promised squad over haul in the summer needs to be major.

I'd say it needs to be an 80% overhaul at least. Only guys I'd keep around from the starting 11 yesterday are Jan, Hojberjg, JWP, Vesterguard and a few of the young lads (Valery/Slattery etc). The rest can just do one as far as I'm concenered. As you've said, the majority of these guys have been losers for far too long under 4 different managers and coaching setups.

[Batman]

I'd say it needs to be an 80% overhaul at least. Only guys I'd keep around from the starting 11 yesterday are Jan, Hojberjg, JWP, Vesterguard and a few of the young lads (Valery/Slattery etc). The rest can just do one as far as I'm concenered. As you've said, the majority of these guys have been losers for far too long under 4 different managers and coaching setups.

thing is, do you really believe the club would and is capable of bringing 5+players of sufficient starting premier league quality?

not a chance in hell

[beatlesaint]

thing is, do you really believe the club would and is capable of bringing 5+players of sufficient starting premier league quality?

not a chance in hell

no I don’t believe they are either

[Shroppie]

thing is, do you really believe the club would and is capable of bringing 5+players of sufficient starting premier league quality?

not a chance in hell

And of finding takers for the ones you want to move on?

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[tajjuk]

The over reactions on here are hilarious, we've been on pretty much mid table form since Ralf took over, mid table teams don't win every game. Cardiff played with zero ambition, they parked the bus and fluked two goals, it happens, to better teams than us. Yes it was careless to concede late like that and yes we should have done better to win the game before that.

But only one team in that game tried to win and really only one team deserved to win and that was us. Cardiff did sweet FA, literally they are so crap they barely put a man in our half, it worked this one time, so what? They are not going to stay up like that, showing that little ambition.

People just need to calm down. The damage was done in the first half of the season under Hughes. If we go down it will be because of that and his terrible management that Ralf hasn't been able to rescue. But I still doubt we will go down, we have played well enough to show we will pick up points elsewhere and probably against better teams.

[supersonic]

I wonder if you don't get the sense that the club is short of money like |I do. We are cutting budgets everywhere and Iam concerned that there is an underlying financial problem brewing. Les employed 3 managers who were paid of, perhaps 10-15m add to that the purchases of deadwood who are out on loan on big wages. The actions were perhaps not only to trim the squad but also to get our costs down. RH seemed to have steadied the boat and felt we could cope without Cedric and the failing Gabbi. The tragedy has inspired Cardiff to winn 2 in a row, we now have to gain 2 more points than them in the next 12 games. Frankly if we cant then we get what we deserve. Some of the fans thought Puels team wasn't good enough for them, well its not time to turn on the 4th manager in a row, as if we do it says more about us than the club itself

We are only paying off one manager at present...

[Spitz]

The over reactions on here are hilarious, we've been on pretty much mid table form since Ralf took over, mid table teams don't win every game. Cardiff played with zero ambition, they parked the bus and fluked two goals, it happens, to better teams than us. Yes it was careless to concede late like that and yes we should have done better to win the game before that.

But only one team in that game tried to win and really only one team deserved to win and that was us. Cardiff did sweet FA, literally they are so crap they barely put a man in our half, it worked this one time, so what? They are not going to stay up like that, showing that little ambition.

People just need to calm down. The damage was done in the first half of the season under Hughes. If we go down it will be because of that and his terrible management that Ralf hasn't been able to rescue. But I still doubt we will go down, we have played well enough to show we will pick up points elsewhere and probably against better teams.

Well said sir, a voice of reason in a storm of over reaction. Must say tho that second goal was a sickener after getting back to 1:1, I was very happy to take a point when Stephens scored.

[redder freak]

I didn't think we looked more dangerous when Vestergaard went off and I wonder if 3 CBs would have stopped their second?

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If we had a defender on the post he could have stopped that shot. Similar to another goal recently when their player hit one from the edge of the area through a sea of legs into the corner of the net. Cardiff looked more organised defensively, with their bus in the way.

I found it frustrating that our players didn’t shoot more. Too scared of giving the ball away or hoping to pass the ball into the net, I suppose.

[Topcat]

I wonder if you don't get the sense that the club is short of money like |I do. We are cutting budgets everywhere and Iam concerned that there is an underlying financial problem brewing. Les employed 3 managers who were paid of, perhaps 10-15m add to that the purchases of deadwood who are out on loan on big wages. The actions were perhaps not only to trim the squad but also to get our costs down. RH seemed to have steadied the boat and felt we could cope without Cedric and the failing Gabbi. The tragedy has inspired Cardiff to winn 2 in a row, we now have to gain 2 more points than them in the next 12 games. Frankly if we cant then we get what we deserve. Some of the fans thought Puels team wasn't good enough for them, well its not time to turn on the 4th manager in a row, as if we do it says more about us than the club itself

This shortage of cash, is the best explanation for the behaviour of the Club. Having an owner that has borrowed £200m and has to pay it back in sizable lumps could easily require a net outflow of £20m+ cash a year, possibly much higher. This season's business plan would not have factored in 3 large redundancy payments and clearly not much cash set aside for the January transfer window.

[Saint Pete]

A bloated squad was hampering us, Hassenhutl now has a smaller pool of players to work with which will make it easier for him to coach and improve them. That's what he wanted, the club acted. You either back the manager or don't.

Ralph also said he wanted a couple of players to improve the team, so I suspect whatever he says publicly he must be disappointed that never happened. As it didn’t happen you agree that the club itself didn’t back the manager, right?

[Fan The Flames]

Ralph also said he wanted a couple of players to improve the team, so I suspect whatever he says publicly he must be disappointed that never happened. As it didn’t happen you agree that the club itself didn’t back the manager, right?

But only if the right targets are available, you don't want the club to just buy for the sake of it, right?

[wild-saint]

But only if the right targets are available, you don't want the club to just buy for the sake of it, right?

If his two targets (the brim striker ans Genk RB) genuinely weren’t available he has to make a choice of going for the next on the list or waiting until the summer. To be fair prior to the 3 games recently he could easily have said we have enough to get over the line and was happy to wait.

May or may not be the right decision but highly possible

[Greenridge]

But only if the right targets are available, you don't want the club to just buy for the sake of it, right?

No one is suggesting buying for the sake of it.

[Pilchards]

If his two targets (the brim striker ans Genk RB) genuinely weren’t available he has to make a choice of going for the next on the list or waiting until the summer. To be fair prior to the 3 games recently he could easily have said we have enough to get over the line and was happy to wait.

May or may not be the right decision but highly possible

I think our two preferred targets will soon be out of our price range if they keep playing like they are.

[Dark Munster]

To be fair the lack of options in midfield isn't down to a slimmed down squad. We've got injuries to Lemina and Armstrong who'd both be in there, so with Romeu, Hojberjg and JWP I think that's one area we have options.

The less said about up front and attack the better though.

These go hand in hand. A slimmed down squad plus injuries (which are inevitable) -> serious lack of options -> losing to the likes of Cardiff

If Ings was guaranteed to be fit and on form for all the remaining games we could afford to let Gabbi go. Ditto Valery and Cedric. Hell, we could have a squad of 16 players.

[stknowle]

But only if the right targets are available, you don't want the club to just buy for the sake of it, right?

I'd like us to buy the right targets then sell the players they are supposed to replace, not sell the players we want to replace and then not replace them because we couldn't secure the right targets.

[Micky]

I think our two preferred targets will soon be out of our price range if they keep playing like they are.

You have to ask, would they want to come to us as well. Even if we do manage to beat the drop this season are we really that much of a draw. Both players will get better offers elsewhere.

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[hackedoff]

We had a better team in League 1 than we have now,and a club that was far more ambitious.
How they let it all slip away is criminal.

[davefoggy]

Another thing, I though the crowd were very, very poor again.

No doubt someone will blame the position of the away fans for 95% of our fans sitting there in silence for 90 minutes.

yeah, that's it. blame the crowd again for the dire performance. Muppet

[SaintsLoyal]

Many of the players are not good enough and weve known this for some time.

The situation has been made worse by a number of players being brought in and going out on loan.

I dont think in our position in January we could attract the calibre of player required being in the bottom six.

I have no idea where the money will come from to pay for the four or so players needed minimum to get us midtable.

[Give it to Ron]

Did you like Puel then Old Nick....you never said....

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[Give it to Ron]

But only if the right targets are available, you don't want the club to just buy for the sake of it, right?

Why did we have to buy...why couldnt we loan in with option and send back when Cedric, Boufal, Carillo and Hoedt return?

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[Charlie Wayman]

Didn't Hassenhuttl say that if he couldn't keep Saints up then he would have failed in his job and wouldn't expect to stay. Meaning of course that he'd badger off.

Let's face it if he can't keep us up then I doubt many on here would want him here anyway?

[OldNick]

Did you like Puel then Old Nick....you never said....

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Lol Ron, yep I did and still do. We wouldn't be where we are now if we kept our nerve. Anyway I like RH and hope the fans don't turn on him as quick. Funniy enough Ralph has to cope with a forward line who are not that good

[Singapore Saint]

The over reactions on here are hilarious, we've been on pretty much mid table form since Ralf took over, mid table teams don't win every game. Cardiff played with zero ambition, they parked the bus and fluked two goals, it happens, to better teams than us. Yes it was careless to concede late like that and yes we should have done better to win the game before that.

But only one team in that game tried to win and really only one team deserved to win and that was us. Cardiff did sweet FA, literally they are so crap they barely put a man in our half, it worked this one time, so what? They are not going to stay up like that, showing that little ambition.

People just need to calm down. The damage was done in the first half of the season under Hughes. If we go down it will be because of that and his terrible management that Ralf hasn't been able to rescue. But I still doubt we will go down, we have played well enough to show we will pick up points elsewhere and probably against better teams.

This.

[Tamesaint]

The over reactions on here are hilarious, we've been on pretty much mid table form since Ralf took over, mid table teams don't win every game. Cardiff played with zero ambition, they parked the bus and fluked two goals, it happens, to better teams than us. Yes it was careless to concede late like that and yes we should have done better to win the game before that.

But only one team in that game tried to win and really only one team deserved to win and that was us. Cardiff did sweet FA, literally they are so crap they barely put a man in our half, it worked this one time, so what? They are not going to stay up like that, showing that little ambition.

People just need to calm down. The damage was done in the first half of the season under Hughes. If we go down it will be because of that and his terrible management that Ralf hasn't been able to rescue. But I still doubt we will go down, we have played well enough to show we will pick up points elsewhere and probably against better teams.

Nail hit on head.

[Tamesaint]

Didn't Hassenhuttl say that if he couldn't keep Saints up then he would have failed in his job and wouldn't expect to stay. Meaning of course that he'd badger off.

Let's face it if he can't keep us up then I doubt many on here would want him here anyway?

I don't recall him saying that and unless we spectacularly imwe between now and the end of the season I dont think that many on here would blame him if we went down. Hughes has a lot to answer for.

[Batman]

I don't recall him saying that and unless we spectacularly imwe between now and the end of the season I dont think that many on here would blame him if we went down. Hughes has a lot to answer for.

Hughes kept us up ffs.

[CB Fry]

Somebody will do the maths but I would think that if Ralph gets to the end of the season then he will have managed more Premier League matches than Hughes did with us. Plus the same number of transfer windows. If we go down, then Ralph will be a very significant factor.

[Tamesaint]

Hughes kept us up ffs.

.... but is the main reason why we are up s hit creek at the moment ffs

[Batman]

.... but is the main reason why we are up s hit creek at the moment ffs

No it isn’t. We were even worse under pellegrino.

[Tamesaint]

No it isn’t. We were even worse under pellegrino.

We had 9 points after 15 matches this season. At that rate we would have ended up with 22 points when the season was over.

Under Ralf we have earned 15 points after 11 games and already have 24 points.

Under Ralf we have mid table form .... under Hughes we had nailed on relegation form - FACT.

[Donatello]

Hughes kept us up ffs.

...and then won 1 in 14

[Micky]

Didn't Hassenhuttl say that if he couldn't keep Saints up then he would have failed in his job and wouldn't expect to stay. Meaning of course that he'd badger off.

Let's face it if he can't keep us up then I doubt many on here would want him here anyway?

Yes I believe he did say that. Personally if we did go down I would love it if he decided to stay.

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[maxi_sopez]

most alarming thing I thought was how the players reacted after we equalised. total headless chickens going gung ho for win. A calm head on the pitch was needed to tell them to calm down and take the point. So annoying. ffs

[Vancouver Saint]

This game is about goals. We don't score enough of them. Ings is a China doll and will not score from the treatment room. Obvious to most of us we needed a proven goal-scorer in the January window. Cannot believe RH did not have targets he wanted. Conclude board said no...thinking after RH's impressive start we didn't need to strengthen to be better than three other teams and scrape by until summer. HUGE RISK. Would have thought they'd have learnt something from last season. Nada. We were the better team against Cardiff but lost because we don't have the goal-scoring power in out team. We can't break down defensive teams that dig in and play counter-attack - in fact we play into their hands with a weak defence.

[doddisalegend]

most alarming thing I thought was how the players reacted after we equalised. total headless chickens going gung ho for win. A calm head on the pitch was needed to tell them to calm down and take the point. So annoying. ffs

My son and I had the same conversation at the match having gone to 1-1 with a couple of minutes left we should have just seen the game out. The draw, while not ideal, helped us more than Cardiff and then the players just lost the plot.

[beatlesaint]

My son and I had the same conversation at the match having gone to 1-1 with a couple of minutes left we should have just seen the game out. The draw, while not ideal, helped us more than Cardiff and then the players just lost the plot.

Thats true, having said that pity Stephens hadn’t gone more gung ho and launched the bloody thing instead of that almost square pass to nobody in a red and white shirt.

[Pilchards]

Thats true, having said that pity Stephens hadn’t gone more gung ho and launched the bloody thing instead of that almost square pass to nobody in a red and white shirt.

Or straight to a blue shirt who thought Xmas came early.
Total madness and if I was making his video for Tenerife then I would play it back a 1,000 times.

[Badger]

most alarming thing I thought was how the players reacted after we equalised. total headless chickens going gung ho for win. A calm head on the pitch was needed to tell them to calm down and take the point. So annoying. ffs

Agree with you except for going for the win, I don't recall us upping our game after we scored, quite the opposite, seemed to me it was a mindset of relief we clawed it back, game over. Except of course it wasn't.

[Charlie Wayman]

thing is, do you really believe the club would and is capable of bringing 5+players of sufficient starting premier league quality?

not a chance in hell

Of course you are right, it is the elephant in the room when discussing Saints prospects under this manager for next season. Our performance in the transfer market has been woeful for a number of years, not least because we are not an attractive prospect for any incoming players of real merit. We end up with so much dross because these are the only players who will come here.

The very idea that we will succeed in bringing in several high quality players who can make a difference to our future prospects in this summer's transfer window is so laughable that it amazes me how many on here blithely promote the idea that such an outcome is at all realistic.

[mrfahaji]

Most of what I saw on Saturday has been said already, aside from most people willing to write Cardiff off as a dreadful, lucky team rather than a team who stuck to a gameplan to which we had no answer (and hence why we didn't deserve to win, even if the ball was in their half more than ours).

Equally, no-one needs to be reminded that Shane Long was/is terrible - but there was a specific thing about his play that really bugged me. Whenever we had the ball in wide but not especially attacking positions, Long turned away from play and headed for the box/far post. The problem was, he was the only player available to support the man with the ball, and should have been coming short or at least making a run down the line. There was one time that Valery had the ball just behind the half way line, with no support other than Long. In order to pick out a cross, Valery would have had to run half the pitch and beaten three or four defenders in the process. And this happened all the time. Surely in those situations you have to make yourself available and try and keep the attack going, let someone worry about getting in the box if you can't. I don't know whether this was what he'd been instructed do, whether he misinterpreted the instructions, or whether it was just another example of him being rubbish.

It showed how important a decent front man is, without one our play was flat and lacking in ideas. I agree that Redmond didn't have his best day, but it can't be easy when you are the only person capable of making something happen.

[eelpie]

The over reactions on here are hilarious, we've been on pretty much mid table form since Ralf took over, mid table teams don't win every game. Cardiff played with zero ambition, they parked the bus and fluked two goals, it happens, to better teams than us. Yes it was careless to concede late like that and yes we should have done better to win the game before that.

But only one team in that game tried to win and really only one team deserved to win and that was us. Cardiff did sweet FA, literally they are so crap they barely put a man in our half, it worked this one time, so what? They are not going to stay up like that, showing that little ambition.

People just need to calm down. The damage was done in the first half of the season under Hughes. If we go down it will be because of that and his terrible management that Ralf hasn't been able to rescue. But I still doubt we will go down, we have played well enough to show we will pick up points elsewhere and probably against better teams.

I agree with you based on what I saw on MOTD (not being able to get to Southampton). It hasn't been usual for that programme to highlight attacking fluency from Saints over the last year, and it hasn't been usual for those commentators to praise current improvements in Saints play over the last twelve months. It was a tragedy to lose this six pointer, but the season is not over yet. We have injured players that will return to the team, and our rivals all have tough matches ahead too. Hoj has the right attitude and so has Ralph. We must also.

[mrfahaji]

I agree with you based on what I saw on MOTD (not being able to get to Southampton). It hasn't been usual for that programme to highlight attacking fluency from Saints over the last year, and it hasn't been usual for those commentators to praise current improvements in Saints play over the last twelve months. It was a tragedy to lose this six pointer, but the season is not over yet. We have injured players that will return to the team, and our rivals all have tough matches ahead too. Hoj has the right attitude and so has Ralph. We must also.

Sorry but I'm not sure the MOTD highlights were substantial enough to conclude that it was a good performance. If anything the lack of highlights should have indicated how poor we were.

[captainchris]

Most of what I saw on Saturday has been said already, aside from most people willing to write Cardiff off as a dreadful, lucky team rather than a team who stuck to a gameplan to which we had no answer (and hence why we didn't deserve to win, even if the ball was in their half more than ours).

Equally, no-one needs to be reminded that Shane Long was/is terrible - but there was a specific thing about his play that really bugged me. Whenever we had the ball in wide but not especially attacking positions, Long turned away from play and headed for the box/far post. The problem was, he was the only player available to support the man with the ball, and should have been coming short or at least making a run down the line. There was one time that Valery had the ball just behind the half way line, with no support other than Long. In order to pick out a cross, Valery would have had to run half the pitch and beaten three or four defenders in the process. And this happened all the time. Surely in those situations you have to make yourself available and try and keep the attack going, let someone worry about getting in the box if you can't. I don't know whether this was what he'd been instructed do, whether he misinterpreted the instructions, or whether it was just another example of him being rubbish.

It showed how important a decent front man is, without one our play was flat and lacking in ideas. I agree that Redmond didn't have his best day, but it can't be easy when you are the only person capable of making something happen.

I like the way you study the game in some detail Mr.
Whilst Valery may have been left isolated on the ball a couple of times he was dreadfully exposed to either poor coaching or being very poor out of procession himself.
He was constantly too far up the pitch and therefore marked by their left back which effectively blocked off the run into the channel from our forwards and also ensured Valery was not available to pass to all in one bag.....
Valery really only did two or three noteworthy things in the whole game and people are noticing that and nothing else.
Long was poor and this wasn’t the game for him but pushing Valery so far forward really hampered Long’s game and come to that Redmonds too.
I was a bit concerned by Ralph’s lack of attention to detail in this game and his apparent inability to change things for 75 mins.
Ralph saying it’s not tactics that affected the game is also concerning.
Ralph was poor and culpable in this match against a very poor Cardiff.

[Manuel]

He was constantly too far up the pitch and therefore marked by their left back which effectively blocked off the run into the channel from our forwards and also ensured Valery was not available to pass to all in one bag......

Whenever we have the ball he has positioned himself very high since the first time he started for us. Must be Ralph's instruction. I have thought he has been too static when off the ball, not doing enough to make himself available.

Promising none the less.

[captainchris]

Whenever we have the ball he has positioned himself very high since the first time he started for us. Must be Ralph's instruction. I have thought he has been too static when off the ball, not doing enough to make himself available.

Promising none the less.

Agree very promising indeed but needs good coaching and if it is Ralph’s specific instruction he is working to then Ralph needs to look at himself and get this right because it is seriously messing up our whole flow.