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Thread: End of the 2 party system ?

  1. #1

    Default End of the 2 party system ?

    Andrew Rawnsley's article below is definitely thought provoking. Are we about to see the end of the two party system?

    https://www.theguardian.com/commenti...er-the-splits?

    The ERG are proving that they are a party within a party. They demonstrate a great unity and discipline. They are united at the moment in their Brexit ambitions but once this is completed will they just drift apart or will they stay united? Their views on economic issues seem the same. What is to stop them getting behind another issue ? Eg The restoration of the death penalty?

    A split in Labour ranks has been on the cards for ages. Rumours are that a Labour split is just round the corner and if it had not been for the 2017 election and Jez's apparent popularity.

    I really cannot decide what will happen. I lived through the SDP split from Labour in the '80's and I still think that the odds on the 2 party system being demolished are pretty long. Nevertheless the next couple of years could well see big changes in the British political landscape.

  2. #2

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    Quote Originally Posted by Tamesaint View Post
    Andrew Rawnsley's article below is definitely thought provoking. Are we about to see the end of the two party system?

    https://www.theguardian.com/commenti...er-the-splits?

    The ERG are proving that they are a party within a party. They demonstrate a great unity and discipline. They are united at the moment in their Brexit ambitions but once this is completed will they just drift apart or will they stay united? Their views on economic issues seem the same. What is to stop them getting behind another issue ? Eg The restoration of the death penalty?

    A split in Labour ranks has been on the cards for ages. Rumours are that a Labour split is just round the corner and if it had not been for the 2017 election and Jez's apparent popularity.

    I really cannot decide what will happen. I lived through the SDP split from Labour in the '80's and I still think that the odds on the 2 party system being demolished are pretty long. Nevertheless the next couple of years could well see big changes in the British political landscape.
    I could see it happening. I can see a couple of the current parties disappearing from parliament first though. The SNP will be off, first, Scottish independence is certainly back on the cards post brexit. I could see brexit pushing Irish reunification forward which would mean the end of the unionists to boot.

    It will be interesting to see if the electorate have got fed up with the percived infighting of the two main parties and whether that sees an upturn in the Lib Dems fortunes.

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  3. #3

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    Hopefully. Problem is the FPTP system means it's unlikely to happen because either side are too scared about letting the other one in. Something is seriously wrong when the only choice is May or Corbyn. Watching parliament try and get Brexit sorted out has just been painful.

    The country badly needs proportional representation but that wont happen. You would imagine under PR the ERG and Corbyn nutters would have their own fringe parties with two reasonably sensible main parties making the actual decisions.
    Last edited by aintforever; 15-02-2019 at 01:22 PM.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Tamesaint View Post
    Are we about to see the end of the two party system?
    Quote Originally Posted by doddisalegend View Post
    I could see it happening.
    Quote Originally Posted by aintforever View Post
    Hopefully.
    I cant see it unfortunately. What should happen and what will happen are two different things. First past the post is an incredibly powerful perpetuator of the two party system. While there might be a wave of popular support for a new party even getting 25% of the votes would see them getting probably 2% of the seats and be wiped out in the next election.

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    Quote Originally Posted by buctootim View Post
    I cant see it unfortunately. What should happen and what will happen are two different things. First past the post is an incredibly powerful perpetuator of the two party system. While there might be a wave of popular support for a new party even getting 25% of the votes would see them getting probably 2% of the seats and be wiped out in the next election.
    Indeed. As was clearly demonstrated in the early days of the coalition when the promised vote on introducing PR took place and both the main parties threw all their weight behind blocking it.

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    Last edited by Shroppie; 15-02-2019 at 02:45 PM.

  6. Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Tamesaint View Post
    Andrew Rawnsley's article below is definitely thought provoking. Are we about to see the end of the two party system?

    https://www.theguardian.com/commenti...er-the-splits?

    The ERG are proving that they are a party within a party. They demonstrate a great unity and discipline. They are united at the moment in their Brexit ambitions but once this is completed will they just drift apart or will they stay united? Their views on economic issues seem the same. What is to stop them getting behind another issue ? Eg The restoration of the death penalty?

    A split in Labour ranks has been on the cards for ages. Rumours are that a Labour split is just round the corner and if it had not been for the 2017 election and Jez's apparent popularity.

    I really cannot decide what will happen. I lived through the SDP split from Labour in the '80's and I still think that the odds on the 2 party system being demolished are pretty long. Nevertheless the next couple of years could well see big changes in the British political landscape.
    Why would The ERG leave the Tory party when their position is close to us members. If anyone should leave the party itís Wollaston, Soubry, Allen and other Lib Demís pretending to be tories.


    There will not be a split in labour. Jenkins, David Owen & Shirley Williams were massive political figures and yet they couldnít sustain the SDP. The Labour brand is just too big, add to that political pygmies like Chucka, Pixie Cooper, Liz Kendall, Owen Smith, arenít going to change the political landscape. And Blair would be a ****ing disaster.

    Whilst we have FPTP, far easier to do a momentum and take over a party, than form a new one. The tories are ripe for it as they have so few members.


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  7. #7

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    Quote Originally Posted by Lord Duckhunter View Post
    Why would The ERG leave the Tory party when their position is close to us members. If anyone should leave the party it’s Wollaston, Soubry, Allen and other Lib Dem’s pretending to be tories.


    There will not be a split in labour. Jenkins, David Owen & Shirley Williams were massive political figures and yet they couldn’t sustain the SDP. The Labour brand is just too big, add to that political pygmies like Chucka, Pixie Cooper, Liz Kendall, Owen Smith, aren’t going to change the political landscape. And Blair would be a ****ing disaster.

    Whilst we have FPTP, far easier to do a momentum and take over a party, than form a new one. The tories are ripe for it as they have so few members.


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    I agree with a lot of what you are saying but I think that you are forgetting that all parties want to be elected. A Tory party that reflects the views of the right wing will never get elected to government as it will look too much like a "nasty party". Howard never realised this. Hague didn't realise this. It was Cameron (presumably a Lib Dem to you) who understood it. He tried to modernise the party often against the wishes of party members ( I doubt for example that many Tory members believe in gay marriage) and he did end up with a majority.

  8. Default End of the 2 party system ?

    Quote Originally Posted by Tamesaint View Post
    I agree with a lot of what you are saying but I think that you are forgetting that all parties want to be elected. A Tory party that reflects the views of the right wing will never get elected to government as it will look too much like a "nasty party". Howard never realised this. Hague didn't realise this. It was Cameron (presumably a Lib Dem to you) who understood it. He tried to modernise the party often against the wishes of party members ( I doubt for example that many Tory members believe in gay marriage) and he did end up with a majority.
    He was against a useless Gordon Brown, after 13 years of labour, and Ed Milliband. Squeaking home against Milliband , mainly because he promised a referendum, and needing the Lib Demís to remove Brown, just about sums him up. Hague was up against elecion winning machine Blair, after another ****ing pinko, Major, had trashed the Tory brand. The Tories need a sound Tory to lead them.


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    Without a doubt. At least one other political player will come from this. The demise of the lib dems, then ukip, and new labour's move to a confused mess, has left all sorts of voids on the political landscape.

  10. #10

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    Quote Originally Posted by Lord Duckhunter View Post
    He was against a useless Gordon Brown, after 13 years of labour, and Ed Milliband. Squeaking home against Milliband , mainly because he promised a referendum, and needing the Lib Dem’s to remove Brown, just about sums him up. Hague was up against elecion winning machine Blair, after another ****ing pinko, Major, had trashed the Tory brand. The Tories need a sound Tory to lead them.


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    Not sure about that. Who would you see as a " sound Tory ".
    Last edited by Tamesaint; 16-02-2019 at 05:46 PM.

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