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Thread: Man United 3-2 Saints Reactions

  1. #151

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    Quote Originally Posted by jabei View Post
    I've got to say I'm surprised at the positivity here..yes, it was a good performance and and excellent game in general but we still lost from a winning position and conceded in the last 5 minutes. It seems because it was against a resurgent Man Utd everyone seems relatively happy. I wonder how the reaction will be if we do the same against Brighton in a couple of weeks. To my memory we often raised our game against the big clubs even under MP and MH and then returned to normal for the next game. We still got zero points from the game and are out of the bottom three only because Cardiff currently seem worse than us.(despite beating us twice)

    Sorry if I seem a bedwetter here but I'm afraid I'm not as positive about a game that followed exactly the same storyline as most other games from the past two years, netted no points and had us concede three goals. I've had too many false dawns to be celebrating the "manner" of our defeat. (i.e. no personal errors leading to the goals)

    Also, apart from the first penalty which was a definite, I thought the ref did okay. the game, particularly first half, was really niggly and he could've been very card happy. I thought Bertrand was lucky to stay on the pitch, their penalty was stonewall & our second would have been incredibly soft.

    I don't post often nowadays but I thought it was interesting that I found myself so out of step with the general feel after this match it was worth putting my head above the parapet. I hope I'm wrong and we kick on from a good performance and keep it up next week...
    There’s a lot in what you say but I wouldn’t consider being 1-0 up after 26 minutes as a ‘winning position’ especially at Old Trafford where teams of our status have everything stacked against them. For me, as a Saints supporter, a winning position is being 5-0 up after 5 minutes of injury time.

    I watched the whole match yesterday evening on Sky Game of the Day and I can appreciate why there is such a positive spirit around here. For me it was very reminiscent of our cup final defeat to them in that we made a good game of it but ultimately were beaten by a club with more financial resources and all that follows from that.

    After reading all the complaints about the ref I didn’t think that he was too bad. The first foul on Bertrand was not clear-cut when viewed from his position but from behind the goal you can clearly see that his shirt was being pulled and VAR would have given this one to us. But be careful what you wish for as in the long run we would have as many decisions go against us as we won.

    Their penalty in injury time should in my opinion have been given as a foul by Rashford on Armstrong. Rashford sees Armstrong coming and sticks his leg out across him in an unnatural position. You could just as easily claim that he was trying to trip Armstrong as that Armstrong kicked him.

    Ultimately, we let in three goals and that is why we lost.

  2. #152

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    Cheated again. Rule no.1 in the Referee's Handbook; Never award a penalty AGAINST United at Old Trafford. A handful have done so over the years, but two of them have already retired.

    Good performances all round, but its the final result that counts. Those Ward-Prowse critics had a reasoned arguement, but now we can see how good he can potentially be when playing in his best role.
    Steven Davis had a monopoly of a midfield role (and rightly so) but JWP was often mis-used in roles that failed to take advantage of his talents. Good to see him given a free role.

    Angus Gunn probably faultless for any of the goals, but it's a long time since we had two keepers of similar quality to choose from. Many that we have conceded can be attribted to individual defensive errors

  3. #153

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    Quote Originally Posted by SaintTex View Post
    after 29 games last season :

    28 points |-12 GD

    after 29 games this season:

    27 points | -17 GD
    I think the team is playing with much more spirit than we were under Mo Po before Hughes came in and the situation is less precarious. As others have pointed out, barring a miracle two of the relegation spots are already taken which wasnít the case last season. But I also think you have to look at the run in. When Hughes came in we had a much tougher set of fixtures. This season in our last nine games we only play two of the top six, and both these are at home. Our last game of the season is Udders at home. Cardiff go to Old Trafford.

  4. #154

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    Really enjoyed the game. I can count on the fingers of one hand the number of times that I have said that when saints have lost, the previous one was the cup final as others have said. Walking out of the ground at the end yes I was gutted, but I was still more positive than after the Fulham game.

    The support was great from from start to finish, it is a really good ground to generate an atmosphere in the away end with the low roof in the corner.

    Cracking performance by everybody. To improve on that we just need a forward or two that can create things out of nothing. Charlie worked really hard again but things aren't working for him at the moment. A fit Ings may well have been the difference that would have given us a positive result.

  5. #155

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    Quote Originally Posted by Whitey Grandad View Post
    There’s a lot in what you say but I wouldn’t consider being 1-0 up after 26 minutes as a ‘winning position’ especially at Old Trafford where teams of our status have everything stacked against them. For me, as a Saints supporter, a winning position is being 5-0 up after 5 minutes of injury time.

    I watched the whole match yesterday evening on Sky Game of the Day and I can appreciate why there is such a positive spirit around here. For me it was very reminiscent of our cup final defeat to them in that we made a good game of it but ultimately were beaten by a club with more financial resources and all that follows from that.

    After reading all the complaints about the ref I didn’t think that he was too bad. The first foul on Bertrand was not clear-cut when viewed from his position but from behind the goal you can clearly see that his shirt was being pulled and VAR would have given this one to us. But be careful what you wish for as in the long run we would have as many decisions go against us as we won.

    Their penalty in injury time should in my opinion have been given as a foul by Rashford on Armstrong. Rashford sees Armstrong coming and sticks his leg out across him in an unnatural position. You could just as easily claim that he was trying to trip Armstrong as that Armstrong kicked him.

    Ultimately, we let in three goals and that is why we lost.
    Exactly, that's what we want. At the moment we are not getting our fair share whereas United are getting more than their fair share.

  6. #156

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    Swings and roundabouts - today we could have been 2-0 up and their second goal disallowed because it was offside, but next week we might win a throw-in on the halfway line that really should be theirs.
    It all evens-out.

  7. #157

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    Quote Originally Posted by doddisalegend View Post
    We've had plenty of games the last few years were we've upped it against a big team (and some where we haven't) and still come away with **** all yesterday was hardly a new experience. The problem is every time we get one of these type of performance its usual followed up by some turd of a performance against some ****e team and turns out to be another false dawn.

    Games like yesterday would be more palatable if we where sitting safely mid table having managed to take more points of teams like Cardiff and Burnley as things stand I'd rather we played badly and walked away with points.
    Don't you think everyone would have preferrred the points, no one would swap 3 points for a good pointless performance. But that didn't happen so people are drawing the positives out of what did happen whereas you are miserable about yesterday's performance because in the past similar performances have been followed up with poor games. I'm glad I'm not you.

  8. #158

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    Such fine lines again as always in games like this...MOTD highlighted the non closing down for the third goal, that was Armstrongs job as the late sub, that counts as a mistake as much as Jack v cardifff.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Fan The Flames View Post
    Don't you think everyone would have preferrred the points, no one would swap 3 points for a good pointless performance. But that didn't happen so people are drawing the positives out of what did happen whereas you are miserable about yesterday's performance because in the past similar performances have been followed up with poor games. I'm glad I'm not you.
    No I'm gutted because we are in a relegation fight and came away with nothing, yet again, when we were minutes from getting something from a game, yet again. Of course there where positives to the performance but they are only really positives if we actually take that level into future games rather than falling back into our more normal level of averageness...

    ….but each to their own if you want to spend they day celebrating losing (again) with a little vino and some fist pumping go right ahead I'm just glad I'm not you.

  10. #160

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    Quote Originally Posted by fanimal View Post
    Such fine lines again as always in games like this...MOTD highlighted the non closing down for the third goal, that was Armstrongs job as the late sub, that counts as a mistake as much as Jack v cardifff.
    No Stephensís was absolute pathetic and unrivalled.
    Everyone makes mistakes but his was cocky, casual giveaway with no seeming awareness of how vital it was to take the point.
    I get people donít like that he is being a scapegoat but no taking away from how crp he has been.

  11. #161

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    Quote Originally Posted by jabei View Post
    I've got to say I'm surprised at the positivity here..yes, it was a good performance and and excellent game in general but we still lost from a winning position and conceded in the last 5 minutes. It seems because it was against a resurgent Man Utd everyone seems relatively happy. I wonder how the reaction will be if we do the same against Brighton in a couple of weeks. To my memory we often raised our game against the big clubs even under MP and MH and then returned to normal for the next game. We still got zero points from the game and are out of the bottom three only because Cardiff currently seem worse than us.(despite beating us twice)

    Sorry if I seem a bedwetter here but I'm afraid I'm not as positive about a game that followed exactly the same storyline as most other games from the past two years, netted no points and had us concede three goals. I've had too many false dawns to be celebrating the "manner" of our defeat. (i.e. no personal errors leading to the goals)

    Also, apart from the first penalty which was a definite, I thought the ref did okay. the game, particularly first half, was really niggly and he could've been very card happy. I thought Bertrand was lucky to stay on the pitch, their penalty was stonewall & our second would have been incredibly soft.

    I don't post often nowadays but I thought it was interesting that I found myself so out of step with the general feel after this match it was worth putting my head above the parapet. I hope I'm wrong and we kick on from a good performance and keep it up next week...
    Iam afraid it is just down to how low expectations are these days. Once everyone keeps half an eye on the results of teams like Cardiff,Huddersfield etc you know what becomes " success " .

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    Quote Originally Posted by SaintTex View Post
    after 29 games last season :

    28 points |-12 GD

    after 29 games this season:

    27 points | -17 GD
    Is MoPe free to come back?

  13. #163

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    Have we really only got two more matches in March?
    Boring.

  14. #164

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    Quote Originally Posted by david in sweden View Post
    Cheated again. Rule no.1 in the Referee's Handbook; Never award a penalty AGAINST United at Old Trafford. A handful have done so over the years, but two of them have already retired.

    Good performances all round, but its the final result that counts. Those Ward-Prowse critics had a reasoned arguement, but now we can see how good he can potentially be when playing in his best role.
    Steven Davis had a monopoly of a midfield role (and rightly so) but JWP was often mis-used in roles that failed to take advantage of his talents. Good to see him given a free role.

    Angus Gunn probably faultless for any of the goals, but it's a long time since we had two keepers of similar quality to choose from. Many that we have conceded can be attribted to individual defensive errors
    Welcome back!

  15. #165

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    Quote Originally Posted by Dalek2003 View Post
    A good performance and an unlucky defeat.


    However, to survive we must beat the teams in the bottom third and just around us.
    Agree. If we had beaten Cardiff at home ,then the table looks very different and safety very likely. That was the game they really needed to perform.

  16. #166

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    If we had beaten plenty of other teams the table would look very different. Cardiff wasn’t our problem, our often indifferent form is.

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    Is it a co-incidence that the upturn in our performances last week followed the reinstatement of Bertrand & Yoshida to the first XI? Of course not. Arguably they are both better than they have been for the last couple of years and much of that must be down to their belief in what Hasenhuttl is doing.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Charlie Wayman View Post
    Is it a co-incidence that the upturn in our performances last week followed the reinstatement of Bertrand & Yoshida to the first XI? Of course not. Arguably they are both better than they have been for the last couple of years and much of that must be down to their belief in what Hasenhuttl is doing.
    They would both be in my team. Yoshi MoM vs Fulham, Bertie MoM vs Utd.

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    One thing I haven't seen mentioned much, although haven't read the thread, is that the Smalling foul on Bertrand should have been a red card, as well as a penalty.

    So we would have been playing against ten men for 80 minutes and would have had around a 75% chance of being 1-0 up.

    A huge mistake that would almost certainly have been rectified with VAR.

  20. #170

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    Quote Originally Posted by benjii View Post
    One thing I haven't seen mentioned much, although haven't read the thread, is that the Smalling foul on Bertrand should have been a red card, as well as a penalty.

    So we would have been playing against ten men for 80 minutes and would have had around a 75% chance of being 1-0 up.
    Very true. But we were playing at OT. Never going to happen.

  21. #171

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    Quote Originally Posted by benjii View Post
    One thing I haven't seen mentioned much, although haven't read the thread, is that the Smalling foul on Bertrand should have been a red card, as well as a penalty.

    So we would have been playing against ten men for 80 minutes and would have had around a 75% chance of being 1-0 up.

    A huge mistake that would almost certainly have been rectified with VAR.
    Mark Clattenburg (yes I know!) has apparently said in one of the tabloids this morning that Saints should have had two clear penalties on Saturday. Personally, I would only have referees from other major towns and cities at OT, Man U were so dominant for 20 years+ that a % of people outside of an area with a large-medium sized team are likely to be Man U fans. Attwell certainly refereed like Man U had just plucked someone from the Streatford End with a shirt on. Worst refereeing I've seen that we've recieved there since 1996 and Steve Dunn/Shipperley clear goal. Even Fergie didn't know why it was ruled out.

    Plenty of teams have suffered over the years - Spurs and Roy Carroll spilling the ball a mile over the line (and the lino was in line with it - so blatant it didn't need VAR). Blackburn having a blatant equalising goal disallowed etc which was yard onside. Pretty much every team that has spent time in the PL in the last 20 years would have a story.

    I don't blamte Man U as a club either - they have every right to build a successful brand. There is also the risk that normal errors get badged as bias - but there were too many on Saturday going one way to not be noted further. Doubt the assessor will do anything though.

  22. #172

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    Quote Originally Posted by benjii View Post
    One thing I haven't seen mentioned much, although haven't read the thread, is that the Smalling foul on Bertrand should have been a red card, as well as a penalty.

    So we would have been playing against ten men for 80 minutes and would have had around a 75% chance of being 1-0 up.

    A huge mistake that would almost certainly have been rectified with VAR.
    Why a red card? Bertrand was not running towards goal and so it was not a DOGSO.

  23. #173

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    Quote Originally Posted by saint1977 View Post
    Mark Clattenburg (yes I know!) has apparently said in one of the tabloids this morning that Saints should have had two clear penalties on Saturday. Personally, I would only have referees from other major towns and cities at OT, Man U were so dominant for 20 years+ that a % of people outside of an area with a large-medium sized team are likely to be Man U fans. Attwell certainly refereed like Man U had just plucked someone from the Streatford End with a shirt on. Worst refereeing I've seen that we've recieved there since 1996 and Steve Dunn/Shipperley clear goal. Even Fergie didn't know why it was ruled out.

    Plenty of teams have suffered over the years - Spurs and Roy Carroll spilling the ball a mile over the line (and the lino was in line with it - so blatant it didn't need VAR). Blackburn having a blatant equalising goal disallowed etc which was yard onside. Pretty much every team that has spent time in the PL in the last 20 years would have a story.

    I don't blamte Man U as a club either - they have every right to build a successful brand. There is also the risk that normal errors get badged as bias - but there were too many on Saturday going one way to not be noted further. Doubt the assessor will do anything though.
    Was that Steve Dunn? I remember it clearly and for some reason the referee thought that he had seen spmething that wasn't there. A couple of minutes before he had penalised us for a push so perhaps he thought that this was another one.

  24. #174

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    Quote Originally Posted by SaintTex View Post
    after 29 games last season :

    28 points |-12 GD

    after 29 games this season:

    27 points | -17 GD
    Shows how bad we were under Hughes.

  25. #175

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    Something else I noticed on Saturday, especially in the first half, we have gotten a little bit nasty of late (in a good way). For far too long we have been very polite as a team not questioning decisions from the officials just rolling over and accepting them. We seemed to be regularly having a word with the ref, and aside from the first half pressing the players also looked to be niggling the Man U players, which was making them raggedy, into making un forced errors, and questioning each others errant passes.

  26. #176

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    Quote Originally Posted by benjii View Post
    One thing I haven't seen mentioned much, although haven't read the thread, is that the Smalling foul on Bertrand should have been a red card, as well as a penalty.

    So we would have been playing against ten men for 80 minutes and would have had around a 75% chance of being 1-0 up.

    A huge mistake that would almost certainly have been rectified with VAR.
    Isn't there a 'double jeopardy' rule in place now? So if it was a penalty he wouldn't also be given a red card (regardless of whether it was a clear goal scoring opportunity).

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    Quote Originally Posted by mrfahaji View Post
    Isn't there a 'double jeopardy' rule in place now? So if it was a penalty he wouldn't also be given a red card (regardless of whether it was a clear goal scoring opportunity).
    Pretty sure it's only if someone's making a genuine attempt to get the ball.

  28. #178

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    Quote Originally Posted by shirleysfc View Post
    Pretty sure it's only if someone's making a genuine attempt to get the ball.
    Yeah that's my understanding too. If someone makes a genuine challenge but mis-times it and fouls the attacker then it's not a straight red, but a deliberate foul to deny a goalscoring opportunity is.

    That's why the ref bottled giving us the pen IMO. If he does then he knows he also has to send off Smalling, and no ref is ever going to do that after 10 minutes at OT.

  29. #179

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    Quote Originally Posted by shirleysfc View Post
    Pretty sure it's only if someone's making a genuine attempt to get the ball.
    True, aware that a "deliberate foul" or "serious foul play" would still be a red. I guess that a shirt pull falls into the first category but can imagine that refs would still only give a yellow. Especially at Old Trafford!
    Last edited by mrfahaji; 04-03-2019 at 01:54 PM.

  30. #180

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    Hard pill to swallow having played so well, but genuinely encouraging. The top 6 bias will always infuriate me, it really is ridiculously unfair, it's not like they have hundreds of millions pounds of an advantage as it is..

    Cardiff lost, and are running out of winnable games before their tough run in. A loss to West Ham and they start their tough run and a chance for us to get away.

    Take the positives from this game, and there were plenty. Hopefully Lemina and Ings can come back soon and give us an extra push over the line and get out of trouble.

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    Quote Originally Posted by rallyboy View Post
    Swings and roundabouts - today we could have been 2-0 up and their second goal disallowed because it was offside, but next week we might win a throw-in on the halfway line that really should be theirs.
    It all evens-out.
    Statistic evidence?

  32. #182

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    Quote Originally Posted by mrfahaji View Post
    Isn't there a 'double jeopardy' rule in place now? So if it was a penalty he wouldn't also be given a red card (regardless of whether it was a clear goal scoring opportunity).
    I thought so too - because the penalty is considered a goal scoring opportunity, so nothing has been "denied", I thought this was the case for the last 2-3 years, but maybe have they changed it again, or maybe I am just wrong, although in that case I would play the mandela card.

  33. #183

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    Quote Originally Posted by Whitey Grandad View Post
    Why a red card? Bertrand was not running towards goal and so it was not a DOGSO.
    Yes he was! He was running straight towards the goal, about 10 yards out with no covering defender.

  34. #184

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    Quote Originally Posted by mrfahaji View Post
    Isn't there a 'double jeopardy' rule in place now? So if it was a penalty he wouldn't also be given a red card (regardless of whether it was a clear goal scoring opportunity).
    A shirt pull from behind is not a genuine attempt at a tackle so it should have been a red.

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    Quote Originally Posted by ashnats View Post
    I thought so too - because the penalty is considered a goal scoring opportunity, so nothing has been "denied", I thought this was the case for the last 2-3 years, but maybe have they changed it again, or maybe I am just wrong, although in that case I would play the mandela card.
    You are just wrong, Nelson.

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  36. #186

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    Quote Originally Posted by benjii View Post
    One thing I haven't seen mentioned much, although haven't read the thread, is that the Smalling foul on Bertrand should have been a red card, as well as a penalty.

    So we would have been playing against ten men for 80 minutes and would have had around a 75% chance of being 1-0 up.

    A huge mistake that would almost certainly have been rectified with VAR.
    Their second goal would also have been ruled out for offside with VAR. Amazing to think that if that game had been played next season (or whenever it is that VAR comes in) we could well have won 3 or 4 -2.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Tamesaint View Post
    Their second goal would also have been ruled out for offside with VAR. Amazing to think that if that game had been played next season (or whenever it is that VAR comes in) we could well have won 3 or 4 -2.
    except when VAR comes in, nearly every goal will end up getting disallowed due to some tiny foul 15 seconds before the ball hits the net.

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    Appols if already posted...Clattenburg reckons that both first half non-calls were penalties...

    https://www.dailymail.co.uk/sport/fo...uthampton.html

  39. #189

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    Gutted but chuffed with performance. Old Trafford quiet until they score, then colossal wave of noise. Imagine how good that atmosphere would be if they mAde an effort. Could hardly hear Stetfkrd End. Itís obvious thing to say, but Utd a huge money machine - even more than most. So many people walking around around with bulging bags from megastore, while £5 to put my small rucksack into storage? Yes, itís for charity, but surely a couple of quid would have been reasonable? On plus side, best footie cheeseburger Iíve had in a long time. I enjoyed our: ďYouíre just a town full of touristsĒ chant...

  40. #190

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    Quote Originally Posted by benjii View Post
    Yes he was! He was running straight towards the goal, about 10 yards out with no covering defender.
    He was running towards the goal line, wasn't he?

  41. #191

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    Quote Originally Posted by Tamesaint View Post
    Their second goal would also have been ruled out for offside with VAR. Amazing to think that if that game had been played next season (or whenever it is that VAR comes in) we could well have won 3 or 4 -2.
    I think that might have been too tight to call. Lukaku's kneecap might have been offside but only from the view that we were given. Don't forget that this was at Old Trafford. There is some immunity for disallowing a goal from 200 miles away but there are a lot of Man Uted fans about.

  42. #192

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    Quote Originally Posted by benjii View Post
    A shirt pull from behind is not a genuine attempt at a tackle so it should have been a red.
    Yes it should, if it had been a DOGSO (see above)

    There's a fair bit about it here for those who care about such things.

    http://www.thefa.com/football-rules-...and-misconduct

    "Where a player commits an offence against an opponent within their own penalty area which denies an opponent an obvious goal-scoring opportunity and the referee awards a penalty kick, the offending player is cautioned if the offence was an attempt to play the ball; in all other circumstances (e.g. holding, pulling, pushing, no possibility to play the ball etc.) the offending player must be sent off."

    Personally I detest shirt-pulling and Chris Smalling is probably the worst culprit. It is a cancer that shold be eradicated from the game. I think that any player found retrospectively to have had a hold of an opponent's shirt should receive a suspension. Is five games enough?

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    Quote Originally Posted by Whitey Grandad View Post
    I think that might have been too tight to call. Lukaku's kneecap might have been offside but only from the view that we were given. Don't forget that this was at Old Trafford. There is some immunity for disallowing a goal from 200 miles away but there are a lot of Man Uted fans about.
    How was it too tight to call? Quite clear that Lukaku's knee/leg is offside, not to mention his arm. Great thing about the penalty area line and the camera angle showed it very clearly. VAR gridlines would not have made it any clearer.

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    Quote Originally Posted by benjii View Post
    Yes he was! He was running straight towards the goal, about 10 yards out with no covering defender.
    AND the defender stopped the man and made no attempt to get the ball. Clear cut penalty and a Red but it's Old Trafford and the history of teams getting shafted by Refs there is legion!

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    Quote Originally Posted by Whitey Grandad View Post
    Was that Steve Dunn? I remember it clearly and for some reason the referee thought that he had seen spmething that wasn't there. A couple of minutes before he had penalised us for a push so perhaps he thought that this was another one.
    Checked the Indy match report and watched You Tube. Definitely a certain S Dunn from Bristol. Still donít see an issue with the goal. Fergie thought we were very unlucky overall and I agree, remember feeling gutted as weíd been poor all season but Whispering Dave got the tactics spot on with two wide players. Imagine Puel, Pellegrino or Hughes being that bold! Ralph might have been reckon.

    Never forgave Dunn for that, and he was terrible when I saw him referee other games not involving Saints.

  46. #196

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    Quote Originally Posted by Saint Albert View Post
    Appols if already posted...Clattenburg reckons that both first half non-calls were penalties...

    https://www.dailymail.co.uk/sport/fo...uthampton.html
    But if he was on the whistle Saturday he wouldn't have given them either!!!

    Always remember him at SMS not so long ago v Liverpool, probably Oriol, cleaned out a Liverpool player in their half, (no surprise that) the ball broke in their favour, so he signaled for advantage being played, it went through 2 Liverpool players and was punted forward to Mane who failed to control it sending it out for our goal kick. Nope Clattenburg whistled and brought the ball back 70 odd yards to the original offence and gave them the original free kick, for another free attack on us.

  47. #197

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    Quote Originally Posted by saint1977 View Post
    Checked the Indy match report and watched You Tube. Definitely a certain S Dunn from Bristol. Still don’t see an issue with the goal. Fergie thought we were very unlucky overall and I agree, remember feeling gutted as we’d been poor all season but Whispering Dave got the tactics spot on with two wide players. Imagine Puel, Pellegrino or Hughes being that bold! Ralph might have been reckon.

    Never forgave Dunn for that, and he was terrible when I saw him referee other games not involving Saints.
    Thanks for that. Like many of us I was with our daughter in our crowd behind the goal and we were both furious about it.

    Quote Originally Posted by VectisSaint View Post
    How was it too tight to call? Quite clear that Lukaku's knee/leg is offside, not to mention his arm. Great thing about the penalty area line and the camera angle showed it very clearly. VAR gridlines would not have made it any clearer.
    The arms play no part in offside decisions. I think the angle can be misleading and we would need to see several other to be certain. I'm not going to argue about it, I'm just saying that VAR would not necessarily have given him as offside (especially at Old Trafford). There was a case with Harry Kane a few weeks ago where on agle seems to show him clearly onside but the other shows him onside. The problem is hat the camera angle is never ideal.

    Quote Originally Posted by hasper57saint View Post
    AND the defender stopped the man and made no attempt to get the ball. Clear cut penalty and a Red but it's Old Trafford and the history of teams getting shafted by Refs there is legion!
    I freely admit that it's a long time since I blew my own whistle and the wording about 'heading towards goal' has now been replaced by these considerations:

    "The following must be considered:
    • distance between the offence and the goal
    • general direction of the play
    • likelihood of keeping or gaining control of the ball
    • location and number of defenders"

  48. #198

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    Quote Originally Posted by Hatch View Post
    except when VAR comes in, nearly every goal will end up getting disallowed due to some tiny foul 15 seconds before the ball hits the net.
    Last year's World Cup proves otherwise. A goal scoring feast and one of the best of modern times. One of the reasons, with VAR defenders quickly learned that they weren't going to get away with shirt tugging in the penalty area, giving more freedom to the side attacking.

  49. #199

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    Quote Originally Posted by Whitey Grandad View Post
    Thanks for that. Like many of us I was with our daughter in our crowd behind the goal and we were both furious about it.



    The arms play no part in offside decisions. I think the angle can be misleading and we would need to see several other to be certain. I'm not going to argue about it, I'm just saying that VAR would not necessarily have given him as offside (especially at Old Trafford). There was a case with Harry Kane a few weeks ago where on agle seems to show him clearly onside but the other shows him onside. The problem is hat the camera angle is never ideal.


    I freely admit that it's a long time since I blew my own whistle and the wording about 'heading towards goal' has now been replaced by these considerations:

    "The following must be considered:
    • distance between the offence and the goal
    • general direction of the play
    • likelihood of keeping or gaining control of the ball
    • location and number of defenders"
    As I said, not to mention his arm. In this case, unusually I agree, the camera angle was absolutely perfect. The camera was situated directly facing the penalty area line, looking straight along it, and Lukaku was on the line at the moment the ball was played, except his leg, which was well over the line. Vestegaard? was directly on the line. It was a perfect situation to see absolutely clearly whether the player was or was not offside. In no way was this one too tight to call for VAR. It was one of the clearest cut situations you could possibly ask for, te hnology itself really could not add anything except the confirmation that he was indeed offside.

  50. #200

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    Consistency has left the building.
    I recall Yoshida being given offside in recent years when he peeked one eye and his nose around a defender - technically off.
    I also recall him being given offside this season when he was nowhere near the ball!
    In comparison, Lukaku was clearly off, a very simple decision.
    And don't start me on Prowsie's ability to lean on a Brighton central defender and knock him over - that penalty decision could still cost us.

    If that was a penalty, we are owed approx 130 of them, including two from the weekend, and probably another couple this week.

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