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Thread: Amid the joy, what a story to wake up to.

  1. Default Amid the joy, what a story to wake up to.

    What are our fans like? Some are total w@nkers.

    Read this.

    Football’s problem with anti-semitic chants aimed at Tottenham Hotspur was illustrated again yesterday when a fan reported some Southampton supporters during Spurs’ 2-1 defeat at St Mary’s stadium.A Sunday Times journalist, who preferred to remain anonymous for fear of reprisals, was in the Kingsland stand of St Mary’s when a man in his twenties broke into a song that began: “Spurs are on their way to Auschwitz, Hitler’s gonna gas them again.” The game was only 10 minutes old at this point. Told that his song was racist, the man reacted by saying: “You’d better not come back next week.” Later in the first half, a friend of the man sang: “Same old Tottenham, all need gassing,” and “Get in the showers.”
    The pair, who were sitting next to a young boy and his father, left their seats shortly before half-time, shouting abuse at the journalist as they went. The incident was reported to stewards, though another Southampton fan told the journalist: “I’ll see you after the game.” The stewards found another seat for the journalist and offered to escort him out of the ground after the final whistle as a precaution, although this was not necessary. They also said they would report the matter to the club and to the anti-racism organisation Kick it Out.

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    Absolute scum. Iím in the Northam and heard a few people (no more than 3 Iíd say) doing the gas noise. A lot of fans were looking around to see who was doing it to shout them down but couldnít work it out.


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  3. #3

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    It’s disgraceful and sad to hear it at St Mary’s.
    Unless it was my hearing I’m sure I heard the Spurs fans chanting “Yid Army” ?
    I thought that was a big no no if other teams supporters chanted that word yet they can?

  4. #4

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    Quote Originally Posted by beatlesaint View Post
    Itís disgraceful and sad to hear it at St Maryís.
    Unless it was my hearing Iím sure I heard the Spurs fans chanting ďYid ArmyĒ ?
    I thought that was a big no no if other teams supporters chanted that word yet they can?
    They did

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    Can't wait until we reintroduce the terrace atmosphere with cut price safe standing areas. It will 100% improve the behaviour of fans in stadiums.

  6. #6

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    Quote Originally Posted by beatlesaint View Post
    It’s disgraceful and sad to hear it at St Mary’s.
    Unless it was my hearing I’m sure I heard the Spurs fans chanting “Yid Army” ?
    I thought that was a big no no if other teams supporters chanted that word yet they can?
    Spurs defense has always been that it’s a term they use positively rather than an insult.

    If allegations are true why didn’t the stewards toss the offenders out of the stadium rather than moving the reporter of the offense.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Guided Missile View Post
    What are our fans like? Some are total w@nkers.

    Read this.
    I'd like the club to confirm something was reported to stewards otherwise I'll assume it was a case of a spurs fan in the home end just being bitter that they lost otherwise I know the Stewards would have chucked them out and more than just 1 person would have heard it !

  8. #8

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    Quote Originally Posted by Baird of the land View Post
    Spurs defense has always been that it’s a term they use positively rather than an insult.

    If allegations are true why didn’t the stewards toss the offenders out of the stadium rather than moving the reporter of the offense.
    That opens up a whole new can of worms then doesn’t it? If they can use it “positively” then good luck to the authorities stopping opposing fans using it less positively

  9. #9

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    Quote Originally Posted by beatlesaint View Post
    That opens up a whole new can of worms then doesnít it? If they can use it ďpositivelyĒ then good luck to the authorities stopping opposing fans using it less positively
    It's problematic because it's not like all of those Spurs fans singing Yid Army are actually Jewish themselves so they don't actually have claim on the term.

  10. #10

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    Quote Originally Posted by beatlesaint View Post
    That opens up a whole new can of worms then doesnít it? If they can use it ďpositivelyĒ then good luck to the authorities stopping opposing fans using it less positively
    Where have you been? They sing Ďwe sing what we wantí. Few years back there were moves to get them to drop it they love referring to themselves as Yids so got nowhere.

    Have you seriously not been aware of this?

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    Quote Originally Posted by Baird of the land View Post
    Spurs defense has always been that itís a term they use positively rather than an insult.

    If allegations are true why didnít the stewards toss the offenders out of the stadium rather than moving the reporter of the offense.
    And yet the vast majority of them chanting it are not of that religion and Jewish community leaders have asked it be stopped....however they just ignore them and pretend to understand the connotations of the word
    Spurs fans are as much at fault as anyone who shout abuse at them
    I don't condone what happens from other fans but the Spurs fans have to take responisbility too

  12. #12

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    Quote Originally Posted by Baird of the land View Post
    Spurs defense has always been that itís a term they use positively rather than an insult.

    If allegations are true why didnít the stewards toss the offenders out of the stadium rather than moving the reporter of the offense.
    Exactly. Why didn't the stewards evict the offenders rather than move the journalist ? Presumably other people heard and were offended by the comments . Were they moved as well?

    As anyone who reads the OP's posts on the EU thread in the Lounge would testify , the OP has history for believing "whacky" stories that he finds on the internet.

  13. #13

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    Quote Originally Posted by beatlesaint View Post
    That opens up a whole new can of worms then doesn’t it? If they can use it “positively” then good luck to the authorities stopping opposing fans using it less positively
    It doesn't really open up a 'new can of worms'. It's common knowledge that Spurs fans have called themselves this for god knows over 30 years? Its a well worn argument about reclaiming the term and taking the power out of it, which I don't actually agree with (I suppose a bit like a black rapper using the 'N' word, or our infamous 'Scum' army..ok that's not racist but the same 'depowering argument applies' ...but lets not use it as a smoke-screen for the behaviour of a tiny minority of Saint's fans, who are probably so confused they don't even know what they are chanting about..they've just heard someone else do it,

  14. #14

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    Quote Originally Posted by Saint-Fred View Post
    And yet the vast majority of them chanting it are not of that religion and Jewish community leaders have asked it be stopped....however they just ignore them and pretend to understand the connotations of the word
    Spurs fans are as much at fault as anyone who shout abuse at them
    I don't condone what happens from other fans but the Spurs fans have to take responisbility too

    It’s a disgraceful attitude to say their fans fault if our fans sing gas chamber songs.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Baird of the land View Post
    It’s a disgraceful attitude to say their fans fault if our fans sing gas chamber songs.
    Lol I never said that but as you raise it, it is their fault. 95% plus of spurs fans aren't Jewish yet ( only at football) they label themselves as such and therefore open up the possibility of other fans chanting anti Semitic songs. If they hadn't falsely labelled themselves why would anyone bother?
    Still doesn't make the chanting right but it is their fault.

  16. #16

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    Quote Originally Posted by Saint-Fred View Post
    Lol I never said that but as you raise it, it is their fault. 95% plus of spurs fans aren't Jewish yet ( only at football) they label themselves as such and therefore open up the possibility of other fans chanting anti Semitic songs. If they hadn't falsely labelled themselves why would anyone bother?
    Still doesn't make the chanting right but it is their fault.
    I've read this three times. And this is one of the worst arguments I've ever seen..It's actually difficult to know where to start with this one. Sadly this bloke is probably the 'man in the street'

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    Quote Originally Posted by wadesmith View Post
    I've read this three times. And this is one of the worst arguments I've ever seen..It's actually difficult to know where to start with this one. Sadly this bloke is probably the 'man in the street'
    I find this offensive. You are labelling me and somehow you are above "the man on the street" what are you a Lord? Educated to a higher standard? Richer? What makes you so special that you are above the "man on the street"?

  18. #18

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    A few years ago at a Saints reserves game at The Dell (was a bigger reserve match so not at Staplewood - they opened the East Stand for it I think), one of our fans was making a load of racist comments (****** this and that, black bastard) etc., so itís not a new thing at all.

    However itís not ďour fansĒ that are the problem, itís a wider problem for society in that there are plenty of arseholes with small dicks / confidence problems that have to make themselves feel big by denegrating other groups of people. The papers go along with it...

    Stewards and even police donít want to get involved btw for fear of making it worse - look at some of the **** that James Goddard ****flap has got away with in Westminster

  19. #19

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    Quote Originally Posted by Saint-Fred View Post
    I find this offensive. You are labelling me and somehow you are above "the man on the street" what are you a Lord? Educated to a higher standard? Richer? What makes you so special that you are above the "man on the street"?
    As a wise man once said...'I've met the man on the street..he's a ****'

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    Quote Originally Posted by Saint-Fred View Post
    Lol I never said that but as you raise it, it is their fault. 95% plus of spurs fans aren't Jewish yet ( only at football) they label themselves as such and therefore open up the possibility of other fans chanting anti Semitic songs. If they hadn't falsely labelled themselves why would anyone bother?
    Still doesn't make the chanting right but it is their fault.
    Stunning ignorance.

  21. #21

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    Quote Originally Posted by Saint-Fred View Post
    Lol I never said that but as you raise it, it is their fault. 95% plus of spurs fans aren't Jewish yet ( only at football) they label themselves as such and therefore open up the possibility of other fans chanting anti Semitic songs. If they hadn't falsely labelled themselves why would anyone bother?
    Still doesn't make the chanting right but it is their fault.
    Thatís the worst excuse Iíve heard for p**s poor behaviour in years


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    The Spurs fans can call themselves what they like without expecting anti-Semitic abuse. It’s like saying that Jews brought the holocaust on themselves for being Jewish. Sadly there are still some buckle draggers who think it is ok to make reference to gassing or Hitler. On the upside fewer people are prepared to accept this behaviour and these morons are being called out. Name and shame these morons. Let’s make it clear that these actions are not acceptable in today’s society.

  23. #23

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    Quote Originally Posted by whelk View Post
    Where have you been? They sing ‘we sing what we want’. Few years back there were moves to get them to drop it they love referring to themselves as Yids so got nowhere.

    Have you seriously not been aware of this?
    yes of course I’ve been aware of it but years back there wasn’t as much notice taken of what was/is PC.

    Aside of all that it’s a disgrace that ****s even think about making up chants about gas chambers etc. They should have been removed straight away

  24. #24

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    Quote Originally Posted by Saint86 View Post
    Can't wait until we reintroduce the terrace atmosphere with cut price safe standing areas. It will 100% improve the behaviour of fans in stadiums.
    This statement is just plain rediculous in its absurdity.

  25. Default

    While a couple of idiotic chants in a crowd of 30,000 hardly constitutes a "storm" as the headline indicates (typical Journo over-reaction, some things never change), this is unacceptable behaviour regardless of any mitigation put forward. It was at best dis-tasteful back in the day (and not remotely funny), now rightly viewed as disgraceful. The culprits could do well to watch a few documentaries about the Holocaust, which even now nevers fails to shock no matter how many times one reads or hears about events in that darkest of times...

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    In the same way that many in the crowd are passive and apathetic to singing, there are a massive majority that will unfortunately not call out this sort of behaviour and challenge (I mean properly challenge) the culprits.

    The by-stander is facilitating this sort of abuse by not challenging it.

    Awful stuff that is completely callous, ignorant and offensive.

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    Disgusting behaviour, should be a life ban for anyone chanting that sort of thing. Same goes for Spurs scum chanting Yids.

    It doesn’t matter where you are there are always a couple of idiots, In 30 odd years of supporting Saints I can only remember hearing a few racist chants. I’ve heard way more at work or at the pub and it’s been more often than not from old, middle classed conservatives.
    Last edited by aintforever; 10-03-2019 at 02:25 PM.

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    Weird. I heard nothing and was in the Northam / Kingsland corner. No idea when this was meant to have been sung


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    Quote Originally Posted by aintforever View Post
    Disgusting behaviour, should be a life ban for anyone chanting that sort of thing. Same goes for Spurs scum chanting Yids.

    It doesnít matter where you are there are always a couple of idiots, In 30 odd years of supporting Saints I can only remember hearing a few racist chants. Iíve heard way more at work or at the pub and itís been more often than not from old, middle classed conservatives.
    So after the first game in their new stadium, 25,000 Spurs fans get life bans for singing Ďyid armyí?


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    So after the first game in their new stadium, 25,000 Spurs fans get life bans for singing ‘yid army

    That, you must admit would be interesting.

    On another note, they have pinched our song. I asked a Totty fan if he realised it was actually a hymn? No, came the reply which brings it down to education.

    Prejudice, racial whatever is used far too extensively these days. They lost yesterday and are bad losers, that’s all.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Saint-Fred View Post
    Lol I never said that but as you raise it, it is their fault. 95% plus of spurs fans aren't Jewish yet ( only at football) they label themselves as such and therefore open up the possibility of other fans chanting anti Semitic songs. If they hadn't falsely labelled themselves why would anyone bother?
    Still doesn't make the chanting right but it is their fault.
    Truly one of the stupidest posts I've ever seen on here.

    First, I doubt very much you have any grounds for claiming the 95% figure. You've just made it up to suit your argument.

    But more to the point, how does 'Yid army' chants to blame for:

    "Spurs are on their way to Auschwitz, Hitler's going to gas them again."

    and

    "Same old Tottenham, all need gassing...Get in the showers."

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    The problem is, it has got into the national newspapers.

    Did he mention it to a steward? I would doubt it.

    Could be just another pack of rubbish that the papers write, especially if no one else heard it aroundthe ground.

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    Blooming buckle draggers.

  34. #34

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    Quote Originally Posted by Portugalsaint View Post
    The problem is, it has got into the national newspapers.

    Did he mention it to a steward? I would doubt it.

    Could be just another pack of rubbish that the papers write, especially if no one else heard it aroundthe ground.
    No, you’ve got a bad case of burying your head in the sand.

    There’s no way this would’ve been printed if it’s a piece of fiction.

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    Quote Originally Posted by aintforever View Post
    Disgusting behaviour, should be a life ban for anyone chanting that sort of thing. Same goes for Spurs scum chanting Yids.

    It doesn’t matter where you are there are always a couple of idiots, In 30 odd years of supporting Saints I can only remember hearing a few racist chants. I’ve heard way more at work or at the pub and it’s been more often than not from old, middle classed conservatives.
    My partner is Jewish and has a season ticket in the Northam. She does not consider the term Yid racist nor did we hear anything offensive yesterday. The Liverpool fans anti Israel pro Palestine on the the bridge to the stadium a year or two ago was much more offensive
    but no one said or did anything about that.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Saint86 View Post
    Can't wait until we reintroduce the terrace atmosphere with cut price safe standing areas. It will 100% improve the behaviour of fans in stadiums.
    Yeah, cos poor people who stand up are racists

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    Quote Originally Posted by Maggie May View Post
    No, you’ve got a bad case of burying your head in the sand.

    There’s no way this would’ve been printed if it’s a piece of fiction.
    I guess Maggie May, I don’t trust a word that is written in the papers. I just can’t understand why he didn’t report it to the stewards. If you take your children to a footie match there is always a chance they will be exposed to bad language. Also, were they in the saints supporters stands? Yes, I guess I am burying my head in the sand (no sarcasm at all, and I mean it).

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    Quote Originally Posted by Berkhamsted Saint View Post
    My partner is Jewish and has a season ticket in the Northam. She does not consider the term Yid racist nor did we hear anything offensive yesterday. The Liverpool fans anti Israel pro Palestine on the the bridge to the stadium a year or two ago was much more offensive
    but no one said or did anything about that.

    I wonder these days, if we are all getting a bit over sensitive and so politically correct we are tiring ourselves into knots. Football has always bought out the chanting across the board, it’s not personal but everyone these days seems to take everything personally.

  39. #39

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    Quote Originally Posted by Portugalsaint View Post
    I wonder these days, if we are all getting a bit over sensitive and so politically correct we are tiring ourselves into knots. Football has always bought out the chanting across the board, it’s not personal but everyone these days seems to take everything personally.
    Agree

  40. #40

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    Quote Originally Posted by Portugalsaint View Post
    I wonder these days, if we are all getting a bit over sensitive and so politically correct we are tiring ourselves into knots. Football has always bought out the chanting across the board, itís not personal but everyone these days seems to take everything personally.
    Yeah I only get upset when the mocking of the holocaust is personalised.

  41. Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Portugalsaint View Post
    I guess Maggie May, I don’t trust a word that is written in the papers. I just can’t understand why he didn’t report it to the stewards.
    It might help the discussion if you read the OP:
    The incident was reported to stewards, though another Southampton fan told the journalist: “I’ll see you after the game.” The stewards found another seat for the journalist and offered to escort him out of the ground after the final whistle as a precaution, although this was not necessary. They also said they would report the matter to the club and to the anti-racism organisation Kick it Out.

  42. Default

    I didn't really want to write this, as it might be taken as condoning or ignoring what went on. But what I wrote earlier stands. It's not big. It's not clever. It's not banter. It's certainly not acceptable in any way.

    But...

    I look at the headline and some of the language used, and don't think that the embellishments are particularly helpful, nor paint a true picture. "Southampton hit by anti-semitism storm". Two people by the sound of it, were being complete tools and should have the book thrown at them. That is hardly "Southampton". Its the old question of do you punish a whole club for the actions of one or two people? Maybe Birmingham can all be labelled as hooligans for the action of the one person who assaulted Graylish? I suspect that they will be punished for the failure to secure the pitch, but that is a little different from controlling someone chanting. And storm? I think maybe the journalist and a handful around the morons heard it, I certainly didn't. I think that the embellishments over these 2 idiots detract from the wider problems of antisemitism. Again this is in no way condoning or excusing the chants. I do find it interesting that of the MSM, apart from the Times only Sky seem to have anything about it. https://www.skysports.com/football/n...tottenham-game

    As an aside, I've never understood the dislike towards Jewish people. A conflation between Israel/Zionism and being Jewish??

    As for Yid-Army, looking at Sky's link in the link I posted it leads to this - https://www.skysports.com/football/n...-chelsea-clash I'm afraid that I can't agree with Spurs on this, although I agree with them on the intent part. If they did stop their support using it, then maybe it would go some way to stop other morons taunting them over historical events.
    Last edited by angelman; 11-03-2019 at 07:53 AM.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Portugalsaint View Post
    I wonder these days, if we are all getting a bit over sensitive and so politically correct we are tiring ourselves into knots. Football has always bought out the chanting across the board, it’s not personal but everyone these days seems to take everything personally.
    Why should football be exempt to standards of behaviour not tolerated elsewhere. Would the n word would be acceptable when directed towards players just because it is football? Of course not. There is a difference to chanting and basic racial abuse.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Guided Missile View Post
    What are our fans like? Some are total w@nkers.

    Read this.
    Our fans are like any other group of 30,000 people. I could go to a Miley Cyrus concert or an antique collectors county fair and find a couple of racist kn*bbers, if I was so inclined.

  45. #45

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    Quote Originally Posted by Berkhamsted Saint View Post
    My partner is Jewish and has a season ticket in the Northam. She does not consider the term Yid racist nor did we hear anything offensive yesterday. The Liverpool fans anti Israel pro Palestine on the the bridge to the stadium a year or two ago was much more offensive
    but no one said or did anything about that.
    why was that offensive? Because people were calling out Israel for settling on land that is not theirs?

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    Quote Originally Posted by Lighthouse View Post
    Our fans are like any other group of 30,000 people. I could go to a Miley Cyrus concert or an antique collectors county fair and find a couple of racist kn*bbers, if I was so inclined.
    Like the Labour Party?

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    Quote Originally Posted by shurlock View Post
    Like the Labour Party?
    They don’t have 30,000 supporters.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Noodles34 View Post
    why was that offensive? Because people were calling out Israel for settling on land that is not theirs?
    Whoaaaaasa watch what you say there, you’ll get accused as an antisemite for questioning Israel’s legitimacy

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    Quote Originally Posted by Lighthouse View Post
    They don’t have 30,000 supporters.
    yeah more like 540,000 give or take

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    Quote Originally Posted by Wrensup View Post
    Whoaaaaasa watch what you say there, you’ll get accused as an antisemite for questioning Israel’s legitimacy
    Not questioning the right of Israel to exist, just would prefer they abide to international law, same goes for the Saudis (to balance it up)

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