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Thread: Watford 1-1 Saints - Reaction

  1. #101

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    Quote Originally Posted by woodsaint View Post
    25 points dropped from winning positions this season, 13 of which has been under RH which is surprising. Thought under Hughes would have been more
    Nah, for that we would have to have been in the lead under Hughes...

  2. #102

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    Quote Originally Posted by Rory Peepa View Post
    I’ve got a feeling Cardiff will stay up and Brighton will go. Going to be tight
    as
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    I'm rooting for this, I want Cardiff to stay up. I want to see more of Warnock crying and yelling at the refs

  3. #103

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    Watford have shown for much of the season when behind they decide to twist and go s**t or bust. They were crowding us, and we start defending like the ball is suddenly a hand grenade with the pin out no bugger seems to be able to put their laces through it and smash it out of the 18yrd box, Stephens guilty of doing a Hoedt and pansying up the line, not long after Lemina decided to try and play it out from just outside the box, sorry mate against Watford when their tails are up you ain’t going to get the time to winkle the ball away.
    Should be use to it by now when Saints are in a spot and turn games into like we are playing in treacle.
    Still that was much better than Saturday evening especially that woeful first half where not only were we playing in treacle but the the treacle was in a paper bag.

  4. #104

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    Decent game, proper ground.

    Boys ran their socks off - just need a bit more composure in both boxes. Would have taken a point beforehand but we should have had three wrapped up long before they scored.

    One of the best away atmosphere’s this season. Scoring after six seconds certainly helps! COYR

  5. #105

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    Quote Originally Posted by Sidney Fudpucker the 3rd View Post
    Out of interest, where would we be if we hadn't dropped all these points from leading positions?
    6th, since we led twice v Manure so we'd have 24 points more and they'd have 6 less.

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  6. #106

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    Quote Originally Posted by woodsaint View Post
    25 points dropped from winning positions this season, 13 of which has been under RH which is surprising. Thought under Hughes would have been more
    blimey, that's a lot. With all these opposing teams pushing for equalisers we need to have been scoring much more goals on the break...but we are not nearly ruthless enough. Long, Ings and Redmond work hard, but the team needs to see these guys score more breakaway goals

  7. #107

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    I would have taken a point before the game. It's a shame to concede in that fashion but I'm happy we got that last point to make it certain that we won't be going down. Would be nice to finish with 44 or more.
    Last edited by hypochondriac; 23-04-2019 at 10:12 PM.

  8. #108

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    Quote Originally Posted by Chez View Post
    some half decent stuff from us at times, but defensively we look ragged as soon as the midfield legs started to go. We seem to lose our shape and struggle to retain possession for extended periods towards the end of games. Watford pushed brilliantly for the equaliser, throwing everything at us, but time after time we just cant see games out. It's not easy to pinpoint the reason for that, but I actually think we are terrible defensively and this is covered up by the workrate of our midfield. When they get tired, gaps open, defenders face one on ones and our frailties at the back are exposed. Players also panic hacking it anywhere. When we do pick a man out we don't then manage to keep it. Forwards make poor decisions, try to do to much or don't get support from tired midfielders.

    Not easy to solve. Better quality players that retain the ball better throughout the game, this means less chasing from midfielders, who then are less tired, leave defenders less exposed towards the end of games and then hopefully it much harder for opponents to build pressure and create chances near the death.
    Agree with this. And also coupled with the fact that when you are winning, especially late in the game (and usually only by 1 goal because you've been profligate during your good spell earlier), it's inevitable the other team are going to throw more at you. So on one hand you have that protective shield weakening, on the other it's when you need it most.

    I also feel that rather than our defending (i.e. tactics, shape) it's more on the defenders. I.e. they're not at a level where they can withstand sustained pressure without making a mistake. Bednarek and Yoshida have some matches where they do, but not every game, and Stephens is always a liability.

  9. #109

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    Here's a stat, we've taken the lead in 15 out of the 22 games since Ralph took over, so we're doing something right. Interestingly, thats exactly the same number Liverpool have WON from their last 22, so if we'd hung on to those leads, that's where we'd be.

    I think it's just something we have to accept as part of our game plan. We will go out hard, early and get early goals but we can't sustain that for 90 minutes flat out. I'd rather that than Brighton, sitting back and trying to bore the opposition into complacency.

  10. #110

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    Quote Originally Posted by Chez View Post
    some half decent stuff from us at times, but defensively we look ragged as soon as the midfield legs started to go. We seem to lose our shape and struggle to retain possession for extended periods towards the end of games. ... When they get tired, gaps open, defenders face one on ones and our frailties at the back are exposed. Players also panic hacking it anywhere. When we do pick a man out we don't then manage to keep it. Forwards make poor decisions, try to do to much or don't get support from tired midfielders.
    Ralph Hasenhüttl's style requires role familiarity and very high fitness levels - both on a level most of the players have never experienced. For him to have made this kind of culture change in not much more than four months is little short of amazing.

    The dropped points are frustrating but understandable to a degree.

    I think we're as good as safe, and I can't wait to see what Ralph does with the current squad after having them for a full pre-season.

    He clearly knows which players suit his style, and he's earned a lot of credibility, so I'd imagine he'll be given the opportunity to bring in a player or two of his choosing. Whether he can do anything with Boufal and Carrillo remains to be seen, but success on that front would enable us to focus more on strengthening the back row.

  11. Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Chez View Post
    blimey, that's a lot. With all these opposing teams pushing for equalisers we need to have been scoring much more goals on the break...but we are not nearly ruthless enough. Long, Ings and Redmond work hard, but the team needs to see these guys score more breakaway goals
    Indeed, there were so many opportunities for that second goal to take the game out of a reach. Romeu being subbed surprised me - I know he was on a yellow but his defensive presence was missed in that last 15 minutes which was the only time in the second half we looked under threat. Could be a useful insurance point though.

  12. #112

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    Fantastic first half performance........ but what is this bloody time wasting about - With Gunn and throw in takers. Annoying when there's 40 mins left or longer.

  13. #113

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    Quote Originally Posted by Shroppie View Post
    6th, since we led twice v Manure so we'd have 24 points more and they'd have 6 less.

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    Surely though your not taking into account points dropped by other teams in leading positions? Surely every team has done it?

  14. #114

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    Our record at throwing away leads is pathetic. For the latest installment, the subs didn’t help, nor did the gameplan of sitting on our 18 yard box for the last 15 minutes hoping to release the knackered Radmond or the lightweight Sims every now and again.

    Anyway, another point closer to safety.

    Atmosphere in our end was excellent.

  15. #115

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    Was it just me or did Sky show PEH and Stephens having a blazing row at the final whistle ??? PEH wasn't happy at all.

  16. #116

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    Quote Originally Posted by Tom View Post
    Was it just me or did Sky show PEH and Stephens having a blazing row at the final whistle ??? PEH wasn't happy at all.
    Good. Stephens is utter gash


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  17. #117

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    Quote Originally Posted by wadesmith View Post
    Surely though your not taking into account points dropped by other teams in leading positions? Surely every team has done it?
    How would you count a game where a team scores first, goes 2-1 down, and the result is 2-2; is that a total of 4 points dropped, 2 by each team ?

  18. #118

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    Back from the game. Enjoyed the halftime show and our contribution to it.

  19. #119

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    Quote Originally Posted by wadesmith View Post
    Surely though your not taking into account points dropped by other teams in leading positions? Surely every team has done it?
    Yes, you're right, but the question was just about us.

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  20. #120

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    Quote Originally Posted by badgerx16 View Post
    How would you count a game where a team scores first, goes 2-1 down, and the result is 2-2; is that a total of 4 points dropped, 2 by each team ?
    Have not got a clue. But you can't just add up all the points we've dropped from leading positions and say we'd have been 6th without also doing the same for every other team surely?

  21. #121

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    Quote Originally Posted by woodsaint View Post
    25 points dropped from winning positions this season, 13 of which has been under RH which is surprising. Thought under Hughes would have been more
    Any idea how many we have dropped in final 15 mins of games?

  22. #122

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    Quote Originally Posted by saint97 View Post
    Fantastic first half performance........ but what is this bloody time wasting about - With Gunn and throw in takers. Annoying when there's 40 mins left or longer.
    He was trying to impress Ben Foster who’s the best in the business.

  23. #123

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    Quote Originally Posted by Shroppie View Post
    Yes, you're right, but the question was just about us.

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    Seems a bit meaningless then really.

  24. #124

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    That point if effectively worth 2 because of our GD. RH is performing miracles with this squad. Just imagine how good we are going to be next season, once we sign a few players, have a pre season and trim the squad a bit.

    Good to be a Saints fan again IMO.

  25. #125

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    So Saints now have the records for the fastest Premier League hat trick AND the fastest Premier League goal.

    God we’re good.

  26. #126

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    Gunn should have saved the equaliser comfortably.

  27. Default

    So annoying. Followed first 60 mins at work. Headed to get groceries 0-1 90+2 on my phone. Lose signal, get to checkout see score and a few heads turned when I half shouted “**** off”.

  28. Default

    Don’t forget, we ain’t safe until Helsingborg says we are...

  29. #129

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    Just think we were a minute away from safety. Don’t trust this team’s mentality at all. Really hope we beat a dreadful Bournemouth.

  30. #130

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    Working so had to PVR the game...a friend texted me Go Southampton!...so I guessed we'd scored...texted back no spoiler alerts...watched it when we got home when of course we score after 8 seconds and then sat through the rest of the game convinced we were going to win even after missing a hatful of chances for 2-0. So was incredibly ****ed off when yet again we conceded late.

    I thought the subs weakened us. Sims doesn't have the physique for this level...running fast is an asset, but he can't hold on to the ball or even close to it half the time...lacks composure when we need it. I thought Ings for Long was the call - a role-reversal with Ings with something to prove with his running up front. I love Lemina, but Romeu was on top of his game and an important blocker...yes, yes, on a yellow I understand...and Valery...looked a bit flaky.

    We have to learn that sitting deep and punting the ball up field to nobody only results in it coming right back at you again. We have to learn how to play it out of the back in the last 5-10 minutes of games...that means having options in front of you when we get the ball on our own 18 yard box.

    Anyway, a point we'd all have taken beforehand - just feels like another lost two points rather than one won.

  31. #131

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    Quote Originally Posted by Lighthouse View Post
    Here's a stat, we've taken the lead in 15 out of the 22 games since Ralph took over, so we're doing something right. Interestingly, thats exactly the same number Liverpool have WON from their last 22, so if we'd hung on to those leads, that's where we'd be.

    I think it's just something we have to accept as part of our game plan. We will go out hard, early and get early goals but we can't sustain that for 90 minutes flat out. I'd rather that than Brighton, sitting back and trying to bore the opposition into complacency.
    Indeed, I thought we looked knackered at the end of the game, which is hardly surprising.

  32. #132

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    Working so had to PVR the game...a friend texted me Go Southampton!...so I guessed we'd scored...texted back no spoiler alerts...watched it when we got home when of course we score after 8 seconds and then sat through the rest of the game convinced we were going to win even after missing a hatful of chances for 2-0. So was incredibly ****ed off when yet again we conceded late.

    I thought the subs weakened us. Sims doesn't have the physique for this level...running fast is an asset, but he can't hold on to the ball or even get close to it half the time...lacks composure when we need it. I thought Ings for Long was the call - a role-reversal with Ings with something to prove with his running up front. I love Lemina, but Romeu was on top of his game and an important blocker...yes, yes, on a yellow I understand...and Valery...looked a bit flaky.

    We have to learn that sitting deep and punting the ball up field to nobody only results in it coming right back at you again. We have to learn how to play it out of the back in the last 5-10 minutes of games...that means having options in front of you when we get the ball on our own 18 yard box.

    Anyway, a point we'd all have taken beforehand - just feels like another two points lost rather than one won.

  33. #133

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    The people saying Watford are a crap team are deluded the table doesn't lie they are a deçent side! You don't just arrive at 8th in the table, I would have taken a point before the game still a sickner though not being able to see a game through...... But what do you expect with the players we have RH is simply performing miracles

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  34. #134

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    Our problem,like so many times in the past is we have settled for a draw. That's ten now. More than any other in the Prem. Once we change our approach we should just go for it. Too many times this season we have scored first and then just sat back and either drawn or lost. Ralph needs to sort this out. Another draw on Saturday is unacceptable. We are not quite clear yet.

  35. #135

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    Quote Originally Posted by Chez View Post
    some half decent stuff from us at times, but defensively we look ragged as soon as the midfield legs started to go. We seem to lose our shape and struggle to retain possession for extended periods towards the end of games. Watford pushed brilliantly for the equaliser, throwing everything at us, but time after time we just cant see games out. It's not easy to pinpoint the reason for that, but I actually think we are terrible defensively and this is covered up by the workrate of our midfield. When they get tired, gaps open, defenders face one on ones and our frailties at the back are exposed. Players also panic hacking it anywhere. When we do pick a man out we don't then manage to keep it. Forwards make poor decisions, try to do to much or don't get support from tired midfielders.

    Not easy to solve. Better quality players that retain the ball better throughout the game, this means less chasing from midfielders, who then are less tired, leave defenders less exposed towards the end of games and then hopefully it much harder for opponents to build pressure and create chances near the death.
    Absolutely spot on.

    A good point none the less


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  36. #136

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    Quote Originally Posted by Mr X View Post
    The people saying Watford are a crap team are deluded the table doesn't lie they are a deçent side! You don't just arrive at 8th in the table, I would have taken a point before the game still a sickner though not being able to see a game through...... But what do you expect with the players we have RH is simply performing miracles

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    There is very little between the sides outside the big six. It all comes down to a bit of confidence and stringing a few results together. Burnley where best of the rest last season yet this season with the same manager and same players the spent most of the season looking at relegation.

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  37. #137

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    Quote Originally Posted by LGTL View Post
    Gunn should have saved the equaliser comfortably.
    How? It was a powerful shot from six yards which then deflected up off Yoshida's knee (I think). The reaction time from the deflection must've been about 0.1 second.

    The keeper was well positioned to make the save until the nick off the defender took the ball above his head. He had no chance of adjusting in time.

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  38. #138

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    Quote Originally Posted by qwertyell View Post
    How? It was a powerful shot from six yards which then deflected up off Yoshida's knee (I think). The reaction time from the deflection must've been about 0.1 second.

    The keeper was well positioned to make the save until the nick off the defender took the ball above his head. He had no chance of adjusting in time.

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    Agreed. He had no chance.

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  39. #139

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    Watford should have scored about a minute after we did. Gunn was very fortunate the shot was straight at him.

  40. Default

    Good point, disappointing to lose yet another lead, especially as we should have been 2-3 up and killed the game off.

    I think we just need more quality in the squad, which will push some of our players currently starting to back up/sub options and our back up/sub options currently basically don't end up playing.

    Certainly we need another better centre-back, Bedenerak has been immense and seems to keep improving, Vestergaard has been ok, Stephens is not good enough and Yoshida is a decent enough back option but we shouldn't be relying on him.

    I think we also need a more mobile/physical upgrade on Romeu, he was lucky not to get sent off last night, and I think in games against midfields like that he just can't keep up with them.

    If we'd had that we'd have beaten them comfortably last night, I think we are like maybe 3-4 upgrades from grabbing that top 7 spot.

    And of course we need someone to finish, yes Long took his goal nicely and basically created it himself, but then he fluffed some other chances and some passes in key positions.

  41. Default

    Quote Originally Posted by tajjuk View Post
    Good point, disappointing to lose yet another lead, especially as we should have been 2-3 up and killed the game off.

    I think we just need more quality in the squad, which will push some of our players currently starting to back up/sub options and our back up/sub options currently basically don't end up playing.

    Certainly we need another better centre-back, Bedenerak has been immense and seems to keep improving, Vestergaard has been ok, Stephens is not good enough and Yoshida is a decent enough back option but we shouldn't be relying on him.

    I think we also need a more mobile/physical upgrade on Romeu, he was lucky not to get sent off last night, and I think in games against midfields like that he just can't keep up with them.

    If we'd had that we'd have beaten them comfortably last night, I think we are like maybe 3-4 upgrades from grabbing that top 7 spot.

    And of course we need someone to finish, yes Long took his goal nicely and basically created it himself, but then he fluffed some other chances and some passes in key positions.
    Disagree about Romeu - under Ralph's watch he has played on a par to the stint he put in for Puel. You only had to see how much pressure we were under when subbed to realise he is a vital part of the midfield. I think he, Hoj and Lemina with 2 CBs is a better set up than playing the 3 CBs. Recruiting a clever AM in the Summer would be wise, but I'm bettong Romeu will continue to flourish under Ralph next season.

  42. #142

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    Its interesting that some say we should have been 2 or 3 up when it is patently clear Watford should have equalised a few minutes later, their fans would no doubt say that if they had of scored then they would have won.
    I notice there is criticism of Simms on for Long, if RH hadnt done that which seems to me perfectly correct he would have moans whyt he hadnt.
    A great point and basically if we get a point from the 3 games Cardiff have to win all 3. I agree they will probably win 2 (Fulham and Palace( im not sure they will get 3

  43. Default

    Quote Originally Posted by austsaint View Post
    Disagree about Romeu - under Ralph's watch he has played on a par to the stint he put in for Puel. You only had to see how much pressure we were under when subbed to realise he is a vital part of the midfield. I think he, Hoj and Lemina with 2 CBs is a better set up than playing the 3 CBs. Recruiting a clever AM in the Summer would be wise, but I'm bettong Romeu will continue to flourish under Ralph next season.
    Agreed. Romeu is one of those understated players. Along with PEH he's been key in the way we have set up under RH.

  44. Default

    Quote Originally Posted by austsaint View Post
    Disagree about Romeu - under Ralph's watch he has played on a par to the stint he put in for Puel. You only had to see how much pressure we were under when subbed to realise he is a vital part of the midfield. I think he, Hoj and Lemina with 2 CBs is a better set up than playing the 3 CBs. Recruiting a clever AM in the Summer would be wise, but I'm bettong Romeu will continue to flourish under Ralph next season.
    I like Romeu, he is a solid player, but I just think against the modern more physical premier league midfield you face, he's just not quick or strong enough, that is why I think he picks up so many yellows because he has to stretch to get the ball as he's getting there late more often than not. If you look at some of the best defensive mids in the league they are a lot more mobile than Romeu.

    But we also just need competition/cover for him anyway as none of our other centre-mids are suited for that holding role, but I'd prefer to upgrade him and find more of a Wanyama like player.

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    Quote Originally Posted by OldNick View Post
    Its interesting that some say we should have been 2 or 3 up when it is patently clear Watford should have equalised a few minutes later, their fans would no doubt say that if they had of scored then they would have won.
    I notice there is criticism of Simms on for Long, if RH hadnt done that which seems to me perfectly correct he would have moans whyt he hadnt.
    A great point and basically if we get a point from the 3 games Cardiff have to win all 3. I agree they will probably win 2 (Fulham and Palace( im not sure they will get 3
    Valery (not Sims) came on for Long.

  46. Default

    Quote Originally Posted by tajjuk View Post
    I like Romeu, he is a solid player, but I just think against the modern more physical premier league midfield you face, he's just not quick or strong enough, that is why I think he picks up so many yellows because he has to stretch to get the ball as he's getting there late more often than not. If you look at some of the best defensive mids in the league they are a lot more mobile than Romeu.

    But we also just need competition/cover for him anyway as none of our other centre-mids are suited for that holding role, but I'd prefer to upgrade him and find more of a Wanyama like player.
    Yes, I understand the point you are making, yet think back to arguably our best midfield partnership in the modern era - Vic and Morgan; both picked up many yellow (and red) cards, neither was particularly fast. Like them, Romeu does a lot of hard intercepting, harassing and tackling - a lot of it goes unnoticed. When our Prem status is officially confirmed (Sat.?) Romeu is right up there as one of the reasons we have survived.

  47. #147

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    You could tell after about 83/84 minutes most of the teams legs had completely gone, with long not replaced by another striker there was no out ball. Decent performance though, smart recruitment in the summer, which isn’t a given, could see us up challenging Watford as even now there isn’t that much between us.

  48. #148

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    Until Long scored, Watford had 100% possession.

  49. #149

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    Quote Originally Posted by badgerx16 View Post
    Until Long scored, Watford had 100% possession.


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  50. #150

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    Would have taken 4 points before the last 3 games. Still gutting to let in a 90th min goal. Since RH has been in charge, its been a case of ensuring survival with what we have and he has done that pretty comfortably. Looking forward to a decent summer.

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