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Thread: Anyone a vegan?

  1. #1

    Default Anyone a vegan?

    I know a few now and donít know how they do it.

    Iíd be screwed just dropping meat let alone the rest of diary but they swear has positive outcome on their health.

    Nice to hear breast milk is ok but these parents nearly killed their baby.

    https://apple.news/AYfGIq-BdSYW3xSktHIYiPg

  2. #2

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    Quote Originally Posted by whelk View Post
    I know a few now and donít know how they do it.

    Iíd be screwed just dropping meat let alone the rest of diary but they swear has positive outcome on their health.

    Nice to hear breast milk is ok but these parents nearly killed their baby.

    https://apple.news/AYfGIq-BdSYW3xSktHIYiPg
    I know someone who's a vegan, he's now home-ridden as due to a lack of protein he has suffered bowel issues, and now his bowels have prolapsed. He's in a right mess and his doctor said it was due to being a vegan.

    No joke, his life is a misery - it's very sad. He's now forced to eat meat (well chicken and some fish).

  3. #3

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    Could probably lose meat from my diet without too much of a struggle but to add eggs and cheese to the list would be difficult.

    I think it's admirable if people can go about their lives without using animals if they don't need to, and in this country we certainly don't NEED to.

    I have a recurring moral difficulty with the fact that the only reason I continue to eat meat is because I like the taste and texture. Seems terribly selfish to put animals through farming and slaughter just because of a matter of taste, especially when there is an abundance of alternatives so readily available.

    Those parents are idoits btw.

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    A meal just doesn’t seem filling without meat to me. I don’t know how I could survive off 3 plates of hummus and veg per day.

    Morally I don’t object to meat, so long as the animals are reared and slaughtered humanely.

    The environment I am concerned about but like almost everything else, it comes down to overpopulation. If there are an extra billion Indians in 30 years time, me eating salad isn’t going to change much.

  5. #5

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    some famous vegan/youtube/activist has publicly announced he is reversing his vegan lifestyle as being a vegan was detrimental to his health.
    He is getting death threats.

  6. #6

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    Quote Originally Posted by Lighthouse View Post
    A meal just doesn’t seem filling without meat to me. I don’t know how I could survive off 3 plates of hummus and veg per day.

    Morally I don’t object to meat, so long as the animals are reared and slaughtered humanely.

    The environment I am concerned about but like almost everything else, it comes down to overpopulation. If there are an extra billion Indians in 30 years time, me eating salad isn’t going to change much.
    I don't think India's population is the priimary concern, it's too large to be sure but Africa seems to be the major problem just now. Back in the 70s/80s there was an ecologist who wrote books and stuff (before ecology was the in thing) whos premise was that we shouldn't go out of our way to heal and prevent natural diseases in Africa because it would over-alter the natural ecosystem or something. Imagine that nowadays, bloke would get lynched before the sun was set. Can't remember his name. Perhaps it was Erlich somewhere in his tome "The Population Bomb," just can't remember but he certainly predicted today's imminent crisis back in the 70's.
    Last edited by Window Cleaner; 24-05-2019 at 04:44 PM.

  7. #7

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    A vegan, a game of thrones fan and a crypto-currency investor walk into a bar, which on talks about if first?

  8. #8

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    Quote Originally Posted by Manuel View Post
    Could probably lose meat from my diet without too much of a struggle but to add eggs and cheese to the list would be difficult.

    I think it's admirable if people can go about their lives without using animals if they don't need to, and in this country we certainly don't NEED to.

    I have a recurring moral difficulty with the fact that the only reason I continue to eat meat is because I like the taste and texture. Seems terribly selfish to put animals through farming and slaughter just because of a matter of taste, especially when there is an abundance of alternatives so readily available.

    Those parents are idoits btw.
    Interesting views and very similar to my own. I don't eat meat but milk and cheese are things that I can't give up.

    There is no humane way to rear and slaughter animals for food and no need to do it; even if we ignore the fact that meat isn't actually that healthy for us and can be a significant cause of cancer. Referring to the point above, I think eating nothing but 3 plates of veg and hummus a day would make anyone ill. We don't need meat to function and be successful - it's not difficult to eat great vegetarian/vegan food and still do well; I currently hold the record for a 10K speed trial on a bike...all powered without meat. Avoiding meat doesn't make you scrawny or weedy.....Serena Williams??

    And there are some companies doing some amazing things with plant based alternatives; in blind tests, many meat eaters couldn't tell the difference between these products and real meat. Look at impossiblefoods.com who supply burgers to airlines and Burger King. Beyondmeat.com have just raised a bucketful of money in the US; in Holland, thevegetarianbutcher.com is one of the fastest growing food producers around and our own BrewDog produces 90%+ of their beers as vegan. Even Sainsburys now sell a vegan/veg fish burger which for me has always been the food group these companies have struggled with. No one has cracked bacon yet though!!

    I am by no means a tree-hugger; won't be giving up the car any time soon and wouldn't like to be "pious and virtuous" as many vegans appear to be. but there are huge environmental reasons to stop eating meat. Animal agriculture occupies almost half the land on earth, consumes a quarter of our freshwater and destroys our ecosystems. Compared to a meat based burger, a plant alternative uses 96% less land, 7% less water and 89% fewer emissions - but there is no political will (esp in the US) to look at addressing this.

    I genuinely believe that at some point in the future (6-7 generations) people will look back and say "did they really eat animals??!!.

    Just my humble input.

  9. #9

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    I agree largely with P&M.

    Ironically, two things which are seldom vegan.

  10. #10

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    If meat wasn't supposed to be a part of the human diet, why do we have canine teeth and the metabolic chemical processes to digest it ? One question I have for vegans is; if the entire country was to switch to such a diet, would that mean the immediate culling of all cows, pigs, hens, etc, as they would no longer have an economic purpose. ( So much for animal rights ).

  11. #11

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    Yeah, I'm a vegan. It's only difficult if you don't have the motivation to do it, same as anything else. For me the catalyst was health and environmental issues but as I've become more informed animal welfare is now a major motivator for me.

    As a vegan, there's a list of stupid things that people say, and most of them are on this thread already. Fortunately, there's more awareness and opportunity to be a vegan these days, and less idiots who don't think before they speak. There will always be some though...someone I know nearly died....what happens to all the animals if everyone turns vegan instantly...death threats.. we're supposed to eat meat...how do you know when a vegan is talking about veganism, their lips are moving....lol

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  12. #12

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    Quote Originally Posted by Puddings and Monkeys View Post
    Interesting views and very similar to my own. I don't eat meat but milk and cheese are things that I can't give up.

    There is no humane way to rear and slaughter animals for food and no need to do it; even if we ignore the fact that meat isn't actually that healthy for us and can be a significant cause of cancer. Referring to the point above, I think eating nothing but 3 plates of veg and hummus a day would make anyone ill. We don't need meat to function and be successful - it's not difficult to eat great vegetarian/vegan food and still do well; I currently hold the record for a 10K speed trial on a bike...all powered without meat. Avoiding meat doesn't make you scrawny or weedy.....Serena Williams??

    And there are some companies doing some amazing things with plant based alternatives; in blind tests, many meat eaters couldn't tell the difference between these products and real meat. Look at impossiblefoods.com who supply burgers to airlines and Burger King. Beyondmeat.com have just raised a bucketful of money in the US; in Holland, thevegetarianbutcher.com is one of the fastest growing food producers around and our own BrewDog produces 90%+ of their beers as vegan. Even Sainsburys now sell a vegan/veg fish burger which for me has always been the food group these companies have struggled with. No one has cracked bacon yet though!!

    I am by no means a tree-hugger; won't be giving up the car any time soon and wouldn't like to be "pious and virtuous" as many vegans appear to be. but there are huge environmental reasons to stop eating meat. Animal agriculture occupies almost half the land on earth, consumes a quarter of our freshwater and destroys our ecosystems. Compared to a meat based burger, a plant alternative uses 96% less land, 7% less water and 89% fewer emissions - but there is no political will (esp in the US) to look at addressing this.

    I genuinely believe that at some point in the future (6-7 generations) people will look back and say "did they really eat animals??!!.

    Just my humble input.
    I think it will be sooner than that. I have young kids and expect that their kids generation will be eating a largely plant based diet. Just doesn't make any sense not to happen.

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    Quote Originally Posted by stug76 View Post
    ....what happens to all the animals if everyone turns vegan instantly.... we're supposed to eat meat..
    But you don't explain why you feel these things are 'stupid'. If there is a possibility to persuade people that veganism is a sound and appropriate lifestyle change, then there must be persuasive and informed information and evidence to support it. Biologically humans are omnivores, this is an indisputable fact based on our physiology.

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    Quote Originally Posted by stug76 View Post
    Yeah, I'm a vegan. It's only difficult if you don't have the motivation to do it, same as anything else. For me the catalyst was health and environmental issues but as I've become more informed animal welfare is now a major motivator for me.

    As a vegan, there's a list of stupid things that people say, and most of them are on this thread already. Fortunately, there's more awareness and opportunity to be a vegan these days, and less idiots who don't think before they speak. There will always be some though...someone I know nearly died....what happens to all the animals if everyone turns vegan instantly...death threats.. we're supposed to eat meat...how do you know when a vegan is talking about veganism, their lips are moving....lol

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    I wouldn’t say it’s motivation, so much as not having the time and patience to try and come up with three different meals a day, using houmous, falafel and courgette. I tried having the veg option at work a few times and gave up after a couple of weeks. I didn’t like the taste and it didn’t keep me going the rest of the day.

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    Quote Originally Posted by stug76 View Post
    Yeah, I'm a vegan. It's only difficult if you don't have the motivation to do it, same as anything else. For me the catalyst was health and environmental issues but as I've become more informed animal welfare is now a major motivator for me.

    As a vegan, there's a list of stupid things that people say, and most of them are on this thread already. Fortunately, there's more awareness and opportunity to be a vegan these days, and less idiots who don't think before they speak. There will always be some though...someone I know nearly died....what happens to all the animals if everyone turns vegan instantly...death threats.. we're supposed to eat meat...how do you know when a vegan is talking about veganism, their lips are moving....lol

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    I wouldnít say itís motivation, so much as not having the time and patience to try and come up with three different meals a day, using houmous, falafel and courgette. I tried having the veg option at work a few times and gave up after a couple of weeks. I didnít like the taste and it didnít keep me going the rest of the day.

  16. #16

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    Quote Originally Posted by badgerx16 View Post
    But you don't explain why you feel these things are 'stupid'. If there is a possibility to persuade people that veganism is a sound and appropriate lifestyle change, then there must be persuasive and informed information and evidence to support it. Biologically humans are omnivores, this is an indisputable fact based on our physiology.
    I'm not an evangelist for vegans. You get a feeling for when and where it's appropriate to have certain conversations. Quite a few of the more frequent posters here are stupid and will steer a debate a certain way.


    To give you the benefit of doubt It's just not going to happen. Nobody is going to push the big green vegan button and there'll be a need to slaughter the whole stock of animals. It's a stupid argument.



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  17. #17

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    Quote Originally Posted by badgerx16 View Post
    If meat wasn't supposed to be a part of the human diet, why do we have canine teeth and the metabolic chemical processes to digest it ?
    Why do humans have an appendix? Why do men have nipples?

    There are many aspects of our physiology that are evolutionarily redundant.

    Quote Originally Posted by badgerx16 View Post
    if the entire country was to switch to such a diet, would that mean the immediate culling of all cows, pigs, hens, etc, as they would no longer have an economic purpose. ( So much for animal rights ).
    No, as it would not happen overnight. If it happens it will do so gradually over a period of time, and the laws of supply and demand will apply. As demand drops, farmers will react and slow down their breeding programs to match.

    I'm not vegan myself, but when I visited a friend in Amsterdam recently we went to this place for dinner cos his girlfriend is...

    https://www.veganjunkfoodbar.com/node/72

    If I could get vegan food this tasty everywhere then I wouldn't have any difficulty giving up meat and dairy.

  18. #18

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    I respect their reasons for doing it but couldn’t be vegan myself. I went to a vegan food festival not long ago because the Mrs was into it, the food wasn’t great and I’ve never seen so many pale, unhealthy looking people in one place before.

    You obviously can have a healthy vegan diet but I don’t think it’s as easy to have a balanced diet when you are cutting out so much. We have evolved to become omnivores, despite all the technology and comforts of modern life we are essentially just highly evolved hunter - gatherer monkeys whose existence has relied on other animals for millennia.

    Having said all that there are some great vegan recipes in the BOSH books by Henry Firth and Ian Theasby.

  19. #19

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    Quote Originally Posted by Puddings and Monkeys View Post
    Interesting views and very similar to my own. I don't eat meat but milk and cheese are things that I can't give up.

    There is no humane way to rear and slaughter animals for food and no need to do it; even if we ignore the fact that meat isn't actually that healthy for us and can be a significant cause of cancer. Referring to the point above, I think eating nothing but 3 plates of veg and hummus a day would make anyone ill. We don't need meat to function and be successful - it's not difficult to eat great vegetarian/vegan food and still do well; I currently hold the record for a 10K speed trial on a bike...all powered without meat. Avoiding meat doesn't make you scrawny or weedy.....Serena Williams??

    And there are some companies doing some amazing things with plant based alternatives; in blind tests, many meat eaters couldn't tell the difference between these products and real meat. Look at impossiblefoods.com who supply burgers to airlines and Burger King. Beyondmeat.com have just raised a bucketful of money in the US; in Holland, thevegetarianbutcher.com is one of the fastest growing food producers around and our own BrewDog produces 90%+ of their beers as vegan. Even Sainsburys now sell a vegan/veg fish burger which for me has always been the food group these companies have struggled with. No one has cracked bacon yet though!!

    I am by no means a tree-hugger; won't be giving up the car any time soon and wouldn't like to be "pious and virtuous" as many vegans appear to be. but there are huge environmental reasons to stop eating meat. Animal agriculture occupies almost half the land on earth, consumes a quarter of our freshwater and destroys our ecosystems. Compared to a meat based burger, a plant alternative uses 96% less land, 7% less water and 89% fewer emissions - but there is no political will (esp in the US) to look at addressing this.

    I genuinely believe that at some point in the future (6-7 generations) people will look back and say "did they really eat animals??!!.

    Just my humble input.
    I have a vested interest but I would politely take issue with the ability to rear animals humanely. There will always be some variance between people who work in the industry and those that are disconnected because they deal with livestock day in and day out and inevitably are less sensitive in their treatment of animals but it is counter productive for a farmer to not rear his livestock humanely; stressed animals are simply not productive. There are also premiums for schemes like red tractor and freedom foods which require regular vet inspections and a plethora of regulations in place to safeguard good practice. Your average farmer takes a huge amount of pride in his stock and works constantly to improve it. The closure in the eighties and nineties of local abattoirs is an issue because this added to the travel. Ideally 'home kills' where there is no stress would be a solution but this are outlawed. The meat from animals killed locally actually eats better because they are relaxed at slaughter.

    Sadly the farming community is not savvy with PR and are losing the argument. If you want to film a bad news story from any farm you can always find one because on a livestock farm you will always have sick animals just like the human population. The biggest enemy is ignorance and it is lazy to just view sensationalist YouTube clips and come to a negative conclusion when if you were genuinely concerned you could make a few telephone calls and somebody will always provide the transparency you sought.

    Some of us probably eat too much meat but nobody understands diet better than farmers and meat is an invaluable component of our food intake.
    Last edited by Sergei Gotsmanov; 26-05-2019 at 09:12 PM.

  20. #20

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    We are carnivores, our whole bodies are set up to eat a varied and balanced diet.

    But if you choose to eat one way over the other, it doesnít make you better or worse person.

    Just be happy and eat how you want.




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  21. Default

    Puddings & Monkeys - good post. Pretty much sums up my views.

  22. #22

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    Sergei and P&M raise some good points. Personally I'm not a vegan, but i enjoy vegan and vegetarian cuisine. Indeed one of the best meals I've had this year was vegan. I subscribe to the view that we're omnivores (not carnivores Cabbage). I know someone who ate a lot of meat but wouldn't eat anything green before the age of 20. Being scrawny, pasty faced and suffering bowel problems isn't the sole privilege of vegans!

    One of biggest problems with western society is the increasing availability of cheap food. This has translated into larger and larger portion sizes over the years, well beyond what a human body requires for sustenance. In particular meat intake has rocketed. When i was a kid in the sixties a burger was two ounces. Then McD introduced the quarter pounder. Now any self-respecting gastro pub has 8oz burgers on the menu. Same with steaks. There's a compelling case for reducing meat production, both for health and environmental reasons

  23. #23

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    Quote Originally Posted by Pugwash View Post
    Sergei and P&M raise some good points. Personally I'm not a vegan, but i enjoy vegan and vegetarian cuisine. Indeed one of the best meals I've had this year was vegan. I subscribe to the view that we're omnivores (not carnivores Cabbage). I know someone who ate a lot of meat but wouldn't eat anything green before the age of 20. Being scrawny, pasty faced and suffering bowel problems isn't the sole privilege of vegans!

    One of biggest problems with western society is the increasing availability of cheap food. This has translated into larger and larger portion sizes over the years, well beyond what a human body requires for sustenance. In particular meat intake has rocketed. When i was a kid in the sixties a burger was two ounces. Then McD introduced the quarter pounder. Now any self-respecting gastro pub has 8oz burgers on the menu. Same with steaks. There's a compelling case for reducing meat production, both for health and environmental reasons
    Portion sizes of meat are definitely an issue imho. If meat portions were like I remember from childhood, ie a quarter of what they are now, the problem would be proportionately smaller and we'd all be healthier.

  24. #24

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    I’m not totally vegan but some serious food intolerances have pushed me that way. I still eat fish, and where I’m lactose intolerant lactose free milk and yogurt which is OK. Normal milk, yogurt, cheese, butter all out of bounds, as are a lot of highly processed foods made in an environment with lactose products. Eggs are fine though. Can only eat ice cream made with cashew nuts in the supermarket but recently Ben and Jerry’s have started doing dairy free which is quite decent. Going to buy an ice cream maker to do my own. Non dairy chocolate is much better than I’d thought, actually a more intense flavour. Have taken dairy free chocolate cakes into work and people have been very surprised by how nice it was.

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