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Thread: VAR seems to be a mistake

  1. #101

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    Quote Originally Posted by Lighthouse View Post
    We are talking about the same incident right? 1:10 It's an absolute stone waller.

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QrOuS48v_M8

    The rules of the game haven't changed, there just wont be any getting away with incidents which should have been. At the risk of incurring the feminist wrath, I'm going to suggest the standard of football and officiating is far higher in the Premier League than the women's WC. As such we will see fewer incidents like this taking forever to sort out. VAR worked pretty well last year in the men's WC, I think after a few games it will probably be alright.
    Jesus christ how bad is it, thats the first highlights i've watched ...gk's haven't changed much.

  2. #102

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    Quote Originally Posted by skintsaint View Post
    Jesus christ how bad is it, thats the first highlights i've watched ...gk's haven't changed much.
    I had to go and find the highlights to see what all the fuss was about because I just can’t bring myself to watch it. It’s awful, the goalkeepers especially are like watching a jellyfish trying to catch a cannonball.

  3. #103

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    Hahaha!

    Why don't they use smaller goals?

    Also, when they're using VAR, do they speed up the replays to make it more like football?

  4. #104

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    https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/football/48703852

    The Premier League will not use video assistant referees in 2019-20 to rule on goalkeepers moving off their line to save a penalty.

  5. #105

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    While it is positive that premier league won’t be using var for goalkeepers positioning it’s still unclear if that means referees will effectively continue with the previous convention/tolerance despite adopting the rule or whether referees will be attempting to strictly apply it just without var. i’d Hope it’s the former and that fifa will quietly back away from their crime scene after wc.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Lighthouse View Post
    VAR right now is like a new signing, it's going to take a few games of patience before we start expecting too much.

    If there was a system which we could implement straight away, which worked faultlessly 100% of the time, it would have been done years ago. We don't but this is better than nothing.
    Some new signings donít work out no matter how patient you are and how long you wait. Iíll give it 1 season but remain extremely sceptical.

  7. #107

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    Quote Originally Posted by Lighthouse View Post
    We are talking about the same incident right? 1:10 It's an absolute stone waller.

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QrOuS48v_M8

    The rules of the game haven't changed, there just wont be any getting away with incidents which should have been. At the risk of incurring the feminist wrath, I'm going to suggest the standard of football and officiating is far higher in the Premier League than the women's WC. As such we will see fewer incidents like this taking forever to sort out. VAR worked pretty well last year in the men's WC, I think after a few games it will probably be alright.
    No we're not.

    Even here it's not entirely clear whether the defender scrapes the ball. A stupid lunge to make, mind you.

  8. #108

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    The thing I am going to find frustrating is that every single post match interview or highlights video, radio show and the rest will lose sight of the fact that it was a game of football.
    It will just be a constant headline, replay or discussion about how the result changed because of VAR and not that you may of happened to of just seen a good game of football.
    Now this may suit if the decisions have gone for you but god it’s going to get boring in the media if one of the big boys comes unstuck.

  9. #109

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    That USA goal against Sweden. The striker was offside behind the defender, although the defender couldn't be sure so played the ball which bounced to another player who scored. Surely the striker gained an advantage because if they hadn't been there the defender wouldn't have needed to try and play the ball?

    Next season is going to be a cluster. And if anyone next to me starts chanting V-A-R they're getting a slap. Even if it is a small child in the Family Stand.

  10. Default

    Quote Originally Posted by The Cat View Post
    That USA goal against Sweden. The striker was offside behind the defender, although the defender couldn't be sure so played the ball which bounced to another player who scored. Surely the striker gained an advantage because if they hadn't been there the defender wouldn't have needed to try and play the ball?

    Next season is going to be a cluster. And if anyone next to me starts chanting V-A-R they're getting a slap. Even if it is a small child in the Family Stand.
    The offside rule has been ****ed around with so much it’s a total mess with many different interpretations on what interfering with play means or doesn’t mean, phases of play etc. Used to be so simple. Now we have VAR and almost every decision is interpreted differently by different people.

    You are totally correct, next season will be a total cluster ****.

  11. #111

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    Fifa getting more laughable. It’s ok for keepers to get sent off as part of their stupid penalty rule for 120 minutes but not ok to do so for them for same offense in penalty shoot out.

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    More VAR contention Germany v Nigeria , they have made a complete cock up of var during this tournament.

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    It’ll be interesting to see how it plays out in the EPL. I worry that this makes it easier to favour the big teams. I think it was mentioned earlier in the thread that the big upsets usually have an element of luck about them. I can just see officials absolutely itching to help the big team with borderline calls on penalties and penalty retakes.

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    The VAR rules for the Premier League next season are not the same as those you might be seeing in the Women’s World Cup. The indications are they will be far more pragmatic.

  15. #115

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    Quote Originally Posted by positivepete View Post
    The VAR rules for the Premier League next season are not the same as those you might be seeing in the Womenís World Cup. The indications are they will be far more pragmatic.
    That in itself should worry you. Effectively it would mean that different leagues are operating under different laws


    Hi Pete!

  16. #116

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    Quote Originally Posted by OttawaSaint View Post
    It’ll be interesting to see how it plays out in the EPL. I worry that this makes it easier to favour the big teams. I think it was mentioned earlier in the thread that the big upsets usually have an element of luck about them. I can just see officials absolutely itching to help the big team with borderline calls on penalties and penalty retakes.
    That’s how I see. By simple fact of having more possession the big teams will benefit more. Man city struggling to break down a team, here’s var with some marginal call. Then you’ll see the same marginal call half the time during the season be nothing.

  17. #117

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    Referees getting confused as when to use var and when not. Situation tonight where the referee blows for a penalty to Australia, VAR team review it, send it back down to the ref to look at, where she decides (rightly) that her original decision was wrong. No penalty.
    But had she nor blown, where would that play have naturally ended, could've been a goal to Australia, who knows. But after all the confusion play restarted with a free kick to Denmark.

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  18. #118

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    Quote Originally Posted by northam soul View Post
    The thing I am going to find frustrating is that every single post match interview or highlights video, radio show and the rest will lose sight of the fact that it was a game of football.
    It will just be a constant headline, replay or discussion about how the result changed because of VAR and not that you may of happened to of just seen a good game of football.
    Now this may suit if the decisions have gone for you but god it’s going to get boring in the media if one of the big boys comes unstuck.
    You are right, it will but they'll soon tire of it when pundits finally realise that their own views on an incident no longer matter which can only be good news

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    Quote Originally Posted by Micky View Post
    Referees getting confused as when to use var and when not. Situation tonight where the referee blows for a penalty to Australia, VAR team review it, send it back down to the ref to look at, where she decides (rightly) that her original decision was wrong. No penalty.
    But had she nor blown, where would that play have naturally ended, could've been a goal to Australia, who knows. But after all the confusion play restarted with a free kick to Denmark.

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    I know referees are getting confused but didn't realise she thought the Matildas were playing Denmark.

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    Bit of a joke in the Eng V Cameroon game. Cameroon not accepting the VAR decisions and apparently the Cameroon players were saying racism was at play!!

  21. #121

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    Women's football seems to be a mistake.

  22. #122

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    Quote Originally Posted by VectisSaint View Post
    I know referees are getting confused but didn't realise she thought the Matildas were playing Denmark.
    Aaah my bad, Norway not Denmark, point stands.

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  23. #123

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    Quote Originally Posted by adrian lord View Post
    Women's football seems to be a mistake.
    May be close to the truth, it's getting bloody comical now, refs completely lost it.

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  24. #124

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    One thing is sure with VAR; Those leaving at 85minutes will be missing 15 minutes of football.

  25. #125

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    Just watched the England v Cameroon game and the biggest issue with VAR as I see it, is that it still has the ability to be subjective.

    England were 3 up and heading through and there was a VAR for a penalty decision, where the Cameroon defender clearly trod on the foot of the England player, as she passed the ball square. Nailed on penalty, but not given for sympathy reasons (and the fact that Cameroon clearly felt hard done by for the VAR decisions throughout the game).

    A further bad foul, last moments of the game, but a proper rake down the back of the ankle, should have been a red, but not given because it is too close to the end of the game. Spitting on an opponent, not reviewed; elbowing an opponent was also not reviewed.

    If we are going to take VAR seriously, we probably need to move the decision making to a fourth/fifth official.

    England won. Cameroon claim racism. They were lucky to end with more than 8 in my opinion.

  26. #126

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    Shock, letís make VAR **** so it doesnít get used.


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  27. #127

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    I used to think that football was the last sport to use technology to help the officials, in order to allow the big clubs to get the big decisions, but looking at how it is used today, Liverpool & co will get 20+ penalties next year.

    Any slight shirt tug will be called to the referee's attention and I can guarantee that the shirt tug against the big clubs will go unnoticed.

    This is the big clubs' chance to blow everyone out the water

  28. #128

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    Quote Originally Posted by adrian lord View Post
    Women's football seems to be a mistake.
    Wow, I bet you thought that was really funny when you wrote it. I've been down to watch at my local and even there they'd call you out as a bit of a ........ Choose your own disparaging description.

  29. Default

    Quote Originally Posted by ooh it's a corner View Post
    I used to think that football was the last sport to use technology to help the officials, in order to allow the big clubs to get the big decisions, but looking at how it is used today, Liverpool & co will get 20+ penalties next year.

    Any slight shirt tug will be called to the referee's attention and I can guarantee that the shirt tug against the big clubs will go unnoticed.

    This is the big clubs' chance to blow everyone out the water
    Ooh itís a corner. Hold on a minute theyíre reviewing it.

  30. Default

    Another VAR fiasco as hosts France have goal chalked off ! Brazil will be laughing at that let off.

  31. #131

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    Whilst I know it's what they have been told to do, linos not flagging for obvious offsides, is threatening to make things farcical.

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    Quote Originally Posted by badgerx16 View Post
    Whilst I know it's what they have been told to do, linos not flagging for obvious offsides, is threatening to make things farcical.
    I don’t get why they’ve decided to do that. Playing to the whistle really isn’t a hard concept.

  33. #133

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    Quote Originally Posted by ooh it's a corner View Post
    I used to think that football was the last sport to use technology to help the officials, in order to allow the big clubs to get the big decisions, but looking at how it is used today, Liverpool & co will get 20+ penalties next year.

    Any slight shirt tug will be called to the referee's attention and I can guarantee that the shirt tug against the big clubs will go unnoticed.

    This is the big clubs' chance to blow everyone out the water
    Wow Smallings in big big trouble now then........................i hope so terribble defender.

  34. #134

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    Quote Originally Posted by ooh it's a corner View Post
    I used to think that football was the last sport to use technology to help the officials, in order to allow the big clubs to get the big decisions, but looking at how it is used today, Liverpool & co will get 20+ penalties next year.

    Any slight shirt tug will be called to the referee's attention and I can guarantee that the shirt tug against the big clubs will go unnoticed.

    This is the big clubs' chance to blow everyone out the water
    Personally I don't believe that. I think any bias is entirely subconscious and attributed to intimidation in the heat of the moment, something which VAR will help to rule out, as incidents will be viewed in privacy and with far more time available.

    If you do believe there is a deliberate bias towards the big clubs, then any decisions which go against us also penalise their rivals. In other words, if Liverpool get a bullsh*t penalty it will really annoy City and Chelsea fans.

  35. #135

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    Cameroon didn't seem to understand the offside law - or realise that spitting and elbowing is frowned upon.
    Phil Neville absolutely nailed it post-match, a sentence I thought I'd never say.

  36. #136

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    Quote Originally Posted by badgerx16 View Post
    Whilst I know it's what they have been told to do, linos not flagging for obvious offsides, is threatening to make things farcical.
    It’s absurd because if a goal isn’t scored and you play on then the pattern of play has been affected by the offside.

    I can see the logic in tending towards not flagging if in doubt but when you are confident enough to make the call you should still flag. Yeah, that means the odd mistake but still fewer mistakes and less of an impact on the game.

  37. #137

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    Quote Originally Posted by suewhistle View Post
    Wow, I bet you thought that was really funny when you wrote it. I've been down to watch at my local and even there they'd call you out as a bit of a ........ Choose your own disparaging description.
    It’s just a joke, Susan.

  38. Default

    Quote Originally Posted by ooh it's a corner View Post
    Just watched the England v Cameroon game and the biggest issue with VAR as I see it, is that it still has the ability to be subjective.

    England were 3 up and heading through and there was a VAR for a penalty decision, where the Cameroon defender clearly trod on the foot of the England player, as she passed the ball square. Nailed on penalty, but not given for sympathy reasons (and the fact that Cameroon clearly felt hard done by for the VAR decisions throughout the game).

    A further bad foul, last moments of the game, but a proper rake down the back of the ankle, should have been a red, but not given because it is too close to the end of the game. Spitting on an opponent, not reviewed; elbowing an opponent was also not reviewed.

    If we are going to take VAR seriously, we probably need to move the decision making to a fourth/fifth official.

    England won. Cameroon claim racism. They were lucky to end with more than 8 in my opinion.
    That game similarly reminded me of the Columbia v England game in the World Cup last year, what VAR does is highlight the shocking gamesmanship and blatant cheating that is common place within a lot of teams, that they also seem to believe they should just get away with and before VAR they probably did.

    I remember the Columbian players surrounding the referee for the penalty given for the foul against Harry Kane which was more akin to a rugby tackle, no legitimately objective and rationale person could argue that was not a foul, but the Columboan players and management acted like it was the biggest injustice in football history.

    There is still of course issues with when and what it is used on and thus that creates room for referee error/potential bias, I think that decision should be taken out of the hands of the off field referee but be down to the assessment of someone off the pitch and detached from the atmosphere and emotions in the stadium.

    But like I saw someone say on twitter, almost all of these 'VAR controversies' are not controversial at all, they are one team making a big fuss against something that is pretty much clear cut.

  39. #139

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    Iíve only seen a few games, mostly Englandís and the officials have been woeful. If they were somehow competent in applying the rules, VAR use would have been limited and the games less of a farce.

    Going forward, FIFA need to think about whether having a big toe, foot, leg or whatever is having too much of an advantage to the attacker and if the rule remains as it is many goals are going to go for VAR review unless a clear and simple way to interpret offside is established. The same for any infringement that has an important impact.

    Perhaps the time when a referee is no longer on the pitch or is there for minor violations is closer than I thought with the fourth official in his high chair, issues verdicts on goals, penalties and red cards through VAR!

    Or perhaps players will wear technology to help the continuous flow of football rather than the stop start we have at this WC.

  40. #140

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    VAR just needs to take the cricket approach.

    Teams have 2 'appeals' per game, if they feel a major decision is wrong then the manager/captain can call for VAR. If a team is wrong they lose one 'appeal'. If they are successful they carry on with 2 appeals.

  41. #141

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    I think the craziest decision of all is telling the linesmen (sorry Assistant Referees) NOT to flag for offsides but let play carry on and sort it out later. I sort of get it, if they flag and get it wrong then a goal may have been scored had they not flagged. But they are now flagging once a move breaks down several seconds later. If they are confident enough to flag then they should be flagging when they first spot the offence. If they're not sure then don't flag at all, the opposition have got the possession back anyway

  42. Default

    VAR has been discredited at this tournament FIFA/UEFA need to set proper ground rules , off sides need calling for more than a bit of a boot in front , last night they gave an offside when they were running away from goal and being a few inches out.
    Obvious fouls , off ball stuff etc OK but only given after repeated slow motion replays NO

    In cricket there was quite a long period where Umpires called for assistance where they would have given a decision and their authority was undermined.
    The refs need clear guidance , VAR rules must not be introduced on the eve of a tournament , 100 min games are not the way to go , we thought Fergie time was over !!

  43. Default

    USA now benefiting from VAR joke decisions, how can they let this go on ?

    Whoever wins the final now will be forever tainted by VAR .

  44. #144

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    Five minutes after the ref awards a penalty, she finally concludes from video evidence that her initial decision was correct. ( Which on watching the replays actually looks like the wrong decision ).

  45. #145

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    Quote Originally Posted by East Kent Saint View Post
    USA now benefiting from VAR joke decisions, how can they let this go on ?

    Whoever wins the final now will be forever tainted by VAR .
    Hate those there’s barest of contact and ergo it’s a penalty decisions.
    Current var was never going to do anything but rubber stamp that poor decision which makes one wonder why the need for another delay.
    Looking forward to ad companies buying var break ad space on sky/but etc.

  46. Default

    Quote Originally Posted by skintsaint View Post
    VAR just needs to take the cricket approach.

    Teams have 2 'appeals' per game, if they feel a major decision is wrong then the manager/captain can call for VAR. If a team is wrong they lose one 'appeal'. If they are successful they carry on with 2 appeals.
    It works well in cricket because it is such a slow game, and the appeal is limited to what happened between ball leaving bowlerís hand and the subsequent catch or lbw. Agree with limiting reviews to a number of appeals but in reality that is just going to mean the first 2 goals and or penalties will be appealed and logically everything that happened between ball entering play and goal has to be examined. So if if a player on the conceding side has their shirt tugged in a midfield tussle leading up to the goal it should be disallowed. Fuxsake are we going to end up with ďsnickingĒ technology in everyoneís boots and the ball to detect if there was ball contact before foul? Itís incompatible with the pace of the game and will only work if used for picking up totally glaring mistakes which can be communicated to the ref in an instant. Even then it should be strictly limited to goals, pens and offsides leading to goals. Living with the human errors of officials is by far a lesser evil than minutes of forensic examination which ruin the game and still donít guarantee the correct feckiní decision.

  47. #147

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    Quote Originally Posted by stknowle View Post
    It works well in cricket because it is such a slow game, and the appeal is limited to what happened between ball leaving bowlerís hand and the subsequent catch or lbw. Agree with limiting reviews to a number of appeals but in reality that is just going to mean the first 2 goals and or penalties will be appealed and logically everything that happened between ball entering play and goal has to be examined. So if if a player on the conceding side has their shirt tugged in a midfield tussle leading up to the goal it should be disallowed. Fuxsake are we going to end up with ďsnickingĒ technology in everyoneís boots and the ball to detect if there was ball contact before foul? Itís incompatible with the pace of the game and will only work if used for picking up totally glaring mistakes which can be communicated to the ref in an instant. Even then it should be strictly limited to goals, pens and offsides leading to goals. Living with the human errors of officials is by far a lesser evil than minutes of forensic examination which ruin the game and still donít guarantee the correct feckiní decision.
    Works fine in Rugby.

    Thing is, FIFA donít want it too work.


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    Swede keeper was just as much ahead of her line as the Scotland keeper but no retake. I don’t mind VAR but it’s going to be consistent.

  49. #149

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    Quote Originally Posted by East Kent Saint View Post
    VAR has been discredited at this tournament FIFA/UEFA need to set proper ground rules , off sides need calling for more than a bit of a boot in front , last night they gave an offside when they were running away from goal and being a few inches out.!!
    They have set proper ground rules. If any part of the attackers body is ahead of the last defender when the ball is played, itís offside. Doesnít matter whether itís a toe or a foot or whatever. Just because you disagree with the ground rules doesnít mean they havenít set any.

    I donít really see how they could sensibly measure it any other way. Or do you want them to say they need to be at least a knee/elbow or shoulder in front of the last defender?

  50. #150

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    Quote Originally Posted by OttawaSaint View Post
    Swede keeper was just as much ahead of her line as the Scotland keeper but no retake. I don’t mind VAR but it’s going to be consistent.
    At the moment the ball was kicked, the toe of her left foot ws on the goal line, therefore within the rule that says part of a foot must be on, or directly above, the line.

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