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Thread: Burnley 3-0 Saints - Reactions

  1. #251

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    Quote Originally Posted by trousers View Post
    Any chance of putting those headline 'Long Ball' stats into context? Otherwise people might think that you're conflating 'hoof ball' (i.e. default 'hit and hope' tactics) and 'long ball' (e.g. long range cross-field passes as part of measured build-up play)...

    For example: https://www.90min.com/posts/6229999-...r-league-sides
    There's no doubt that more of Burnley's long balls are "safety first" defending. Your manager alluded to that in one of the post-match interviews when he said that your tactic of winning the ball early doesn't work against Burnley, essentially because our defender don't take chances - they get rid, rather than risk losing the ball.

    Sean Dyche has consistently been out of sync with other managers in that he very much emphasises two cardinal virtues - keeping the ball out at one end, and scoring at the other. The rest is detail and no more than a means to an end. If he believes his players aren't that good at pretty and dangerous passing at the back, he suggests they don't do it. It's very efficient, and as can often be seen (SAturday in a gale being a case in point), "pretty" football is bad to watch as well if it isn't done well.

  2. Default

    Fair enough. Our defenders need to go safety first, clear the ball away when under pressure, rather than trying to pass their way out.
    Only had Solent commentary to form a judgement, and their analysis came down to two factors - poor team selection (Stephens and Vest, especially) and lack of tactics - lots of passing in front of the Burnley defence but no cutting edge. Both of those - team selection and tactics - are the responsibility of the manager.
    We got too complacent after winning every pre-season game. Ralph has to get it right this week.

  3. #253

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    Not sure what every ones problem is with Ings, pretty remarkable appearance really not getting injured.

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    Quote Originally Posted by dsr-burnley View Post
    There's no doubt that more of Burnley's long balls are "safety first" defending. Your manager alluded to that in one of the post-match interviews when he said that your tactic of winning the ball early doesn't work against Burnley, essentially because our defender don't take chances - they get rid, rather than risk losing the ball.

    Sean Dyche has consistently been out of sync with other managers in that he very much emphasises two cardinal virtues - keeping the ball out at one end, and scoring at the other. The rest is detail and no more than a means to an end. If he believes his players aren't that good at pretty and dangerous passing at the back, he suggests they don't do it. It's very efficient, and as can often be seen (SAturday in a gale being a case in point), "pretty" football is bad to watch as well if it isn't done well.
    We're a fickle lot, us football fans. Most observers would ahve Burnely down as a very direct, combative and rather ugly style. As a fan, when you're winning, it doesn't seem to bother too many. Your style definitely beat ours on Saturday.

  5. #255

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    Quote Originally Posted by tajjuk View Post
    Games are turned on moments, we were the better side without doing anything massively and then one hoof, in conditions that suit it and one f*ck up, the team unravelled from there really. Had we stuck one away earlier its a different game and we might have been able to control it better.

    People say conditions was the same for both teams, but then only one team was trying to really play football and conditions massively suit Burnleys horrible style. (honestly I'd rather see use go down than play like them and play absolutely deplorable c*nts like Barnes, who is not a good player)

    Crap happens, just unfortunate that August brought a storm you'd expect in November, and you'd hope the team would have reacted a bit better but there you go, the two in quick succession killed us off sadly .

    I don't get the panic though, early season form means very little, look at Palace they didn't win in 7 last year and didn't score a goal but they finished comfortably clear. I'm sure people will be fapping over Brighton but their squad is not very good, they started with the same team they had last year and only had 3 shots on target but scored 3. We'll see where they are after a proper amount of games.

    Panic when we are in December not after the first game which was never a 3-0 anyway and at a place we never do well, in conditions that massively favoured those hoof ball merchants.
    Do you not feel a decent manager would choose a squad, formation and tactics to suit the conditions?

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  6. #256

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    Quote Originally Posted by kermitsaint View Post
    Do you not feel a decent manager would choose a squad, formation and tactics to suit the conditions?

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    Of course they would, but things dont always go to plan. Are you suggesting because his plan didnt work he isnt a decent manager this early into the season compeltly ignoring what he achieved last season?

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    Quote Originally Posted by kermitsaint View Post
    Do you not feel a decent manager would choose a squad, formation and tactics to suit the conditions?

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    Do you think that Ralph showed that he was a decent manager for us last season?

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    Why is it some posters invariably appear only after a defeat, and invariably have never had anything positive to say about the club they claim to support? Annoying.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Faz View Post
    Why is it some posters invariably appear only after a defeat, and invariably have never had anything positive to say about the club they claim to support?
    To get bites. They're very good at it to be fair...

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    Quote Originally Posted by Faz View Post
    Why is it some posters invariably appear only after a defeat, and invariably have never had anything positive to say about the club they claim to support? Annoying.
    Glad someone else has said this, weird "fans" we have

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    Quote Originally Posted by Faz View Post
    Why is it some posters invariably appear only after a defeat, and invariably have never had anything positive to say about the club they claim to support? Annoying.
    Tbf a defeat typically evokes more emotion and discussion.

    Also keeps the "super fan" battle electric

    Think Saturdays result shocked and disappointed more. We had a long break and some forget how inevitable SFC can be.

    We will win some and lose some... But some need to accept that we are now a bottom 3rd prem team generally

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    Quote Originally Posted by Heisenberg View Post
    Tbf a defeat typically evokes more emotion and discussion.
    I’m certain you’re right, but that doesn’t excuse being 100% negative. That starts to look like a pre-determined agenda.

    Quote Originally Posted by Heisenberg View Post
    Also keeps the "super fan" battle electric
    ??

    Quote Originally Posted by Heisenberg View Post
    Think Saturdays result shocked and disappointed more. We had a long break and some forget how inevitable SFC can be.
    I think many were more disappointed by the capitulation after the first goal than the result per se. It’s football, **** happens and we will lose games we expect to win.

    Quote Originally Posted by Heisenberg View Post
    We will win some and lose some... But some need to accept that we are now a bottom 3rd prem team generally
    I accept (as does RH) we are certainly not top half, too early to call anything else.

  13. #263

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    Quote Originally Posted by Heisenberg View Post
    Tbf a defeat typically evokes more emotion and discussion.

    Also keeps the "super fan" battle electric

    Think Saturdays result shocked and disappointed more. We had a long break and some forget how inevitable SFC can be.

    We will win some and lose some... But some need to accept that we are now a bottom 3rd prem team generally
    Have I missed something? When was the last time we finished in the bottom three of the Prem? Not for many years if my failing memory is anything to go by. A lower half of the Prem club would be more accurate. I don’t usually agree with Alan Brazil but this morning he said that all teams from 11 down will be in a relegation fight this season. We are an average side and we have to make sure that we get more points than the other average sides, something we are very capable of doing despite our obvious weaknesses.

  14. #264

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    Quote Originally Posted by Faz View Post
    I’m certain you’re right, but that doesn’t excuse being 100% negative. That starts to look like a pre-determined agenda.

    ??

    I think many were more disappointed by the capitulation after the first goal than the result per se. It’s football, **** happens and we will lose games we expect to win.

    I accept (as does RH) we are certainly not top half, too early to call anything else.
    This all day long for me. Like you say you can get unlucky, but would have been great for the team to "say" tough luck, but let's try and put it right! Similarly in the Liverpool game it was said that the Norwich captain spend too long with his head in his hands showing disappointment, rather than showing the feck this let's get one back attitude.

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    Quote Originally Posted by sadoldgit View Post
    Have I missed something? When was the last time we finished in the bottom three of the Prem? Not for many years if my failing memory is anything to go by. A lower half of the Prem club would be more accurate. I don’t usually agree with Alan Brazil but this morning he said that all teams from 11 down will be in a relegation fight this season. We are an average side and we have to make sure that we get more points than the other average sides, something we are very capable of doing despite our obvious weaknesses.
    Bottom 3rd not bottom 3

  16. #266

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    Quote Originally Posted by Heisenberg View Post
    Bottom 3rd not bottom 3
    Fair enough.

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    Quote Originally Posted by sadoldgit View Post
    I used to think that Spuds had the most miserable, negative fans, but it looks like we now have that honour. One game in and already talking about relegation. I suppose we shall have the forum ray of sunshine telling us that Ralph will be gone by Christmas soon too. We always put in some shocking performances. Why should this season be any different? Burnley arenít an easy side to play against, especially in poor conditions. We have a whole season to go and plenty of time left to wet the bed and slit wrists. Donít use up all of that negative energy so early in the season.
    Yep, noticeable that most of the nastier comments on the match reaction thread came from people that otherwise never or very rarely post. There seems to be a very nasty element who salivate at the thought of coming on here just to trash the club and all it's players. They are not fans and they should all pick ups their little toys and bugger off!

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    Freak weather, freak performance. probably as simple as that. Don't be surprised if we beat Liverpool 2-1 on a sunny day next weekend. COYR

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    Quote Originally Posted by Charlie Wayman View Post
    Yep, noticeable that most of the nastier comments on the match reaction thread came from people that otherwise never or very rarely post. There seems to be a very nasty element who salivate at the thought of coming on here just to trash the club and all it's players. They are not fans and they should all pick ups their little toys and bugger off!
    Very true. I suspect a substantial proportion of those are fishy neighbours who have no reason whatsoever to be happy with their own club, so desperately try to revel in any Saints underperformance and create a sense of pessimism.


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    Quote Originally Posted by Charlie Wayman View Post
    Yep, noticeable that most of the nastier comments on the match reaction thread came from people that otherwise never or very rarely post. There seems to be a very nasty element who salivate at the thought of coming on here just to trash the club and all it's players. They are not fans and they should all pick ups their little toys and bugger off!
    Like who pal?

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    Quote Originally Posted by shurlock View Post
    Like who pal?
    We could start with the first four posts on this thread. Then plenty more. It's disingenuous to try to suggest we don't have this element.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Shroppie View Post
    We could start with the first four posts on this thread. Then plenty more. It's disingenuous to try to suggest we don't have this element.

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    Someone with nearly 30,000 posts?

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    Quote Originally Posted by kermitsaint View Post
    I don't recall mentioning anything about giving up. So unlike you to completely make things up..
    This pattern of play has existed for a while, even after a full preseason nothing has changed. I see nothing which suggests Ralph is an amazing manager.
    I will continue to watch every week but as our team continues to lack heart and fight I too lose my enthusiasm to watch.

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    Quote Originally Posted by kermitsaint View Post
    Do you not feel a decent manager would choose a squad, formation and tactics to suit the conditions?

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    This idiot above for 1 example



    Quote Originally Posted by shurlock View Post
    Like who pal?

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    Quote Originally Posted by shurlock View Post
    Someone with nearly 30,000 posts?
    Fair enough on that particular one. But there are plenty more.

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    Quote Originally Posted by ALWAYS_SFC View Post
    This idiot above for 1 example
    Granted kermit's a bona fide oddball and is probably related to larry the loon (RIP larry) though he has racked up 700+ posts. Was more taking issue with the idea that this is anything close to a trend or significant in terms of the numbers involved.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Charlie Wayman View Post
    Freak weather, freak performance. probably as simple as that. Don't be surprised if we beat Liverpool 2-1 on a sunny day next weekend. COYR
    To be honest, I think I might be a BIT surprised.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Red View Post
    This all day long for me. Like you say you can get unlucky, but would have been great for the team to "say" tough luck, but let's try and put it right! Similarly in the Liverpool game it was said that the Norwich captain spend too long with his head in his hands showing disappointment, rather than showing the feck this let's get one back attitude.
    To be fair until they scored we were the better team and looked the more likely. Just before they scored Bertrand was gesturing to the away fans to make some noise and get behind the team after a promising attack came to nothing - so clearly at that point he was fired up. Shame he fell over for the 3rd - but ultimately it was just a bad day at the office where the team who coped better with the conditions prevailed.

  28. #278

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    Quote Originally Posted by wild-saint View Post
    Of course they would, but things dont always go to plan. Are you suggesting because his plan didnt work he isnt a decent manager this early into the season compeltly ignoring what he achieved last season?
    Well in this game he showed that he failed to plan for this game but also couldn't adjust to suit during the game. So yes I don't see anything which makes him anything other than average.
    What exactly did he achieve last season? We limped through the season as we had previously.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Charlie Wayman View Post
    Freak weather, freak performance. probably as simple as that. Don't be surprised if we beat Liverpool 2-1 on a sunny day next weekend. COYR
    Dream on. We'll concede at least 4. I'm going for 0-2 at half time. We get a man sent off in the second half (probably PEH) and the final score being 1-8.

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    Quote Originally Posted by sadoldgit View Post
    Do you think that Ralph showed that he was a decent manager for us last season?
    Average, yes. Started well but the last 10 games were very worrying. We should have been home and dry with 5 games to go but in typical Saints style we left it right until the end. The opening game this season just reminded me of some of our latter performances from last season. I like Ralph, I really do. I think he's a great character. However, I don't think he's got a clue when it comes to setting up a team to defend. Who in their right mind would play Jack Stephens when we have two international defenders in the squad??? Strikes me that he's from the Keegan school of management... You score 4, we'll score 5. Although that doesn't look to be going to plan at the moment.

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    Quote Originally Posted by woodsaint View Post
    Krueger? Because you cant surely be blaming Hasenhuttl for the transfer business over the summer. How do you know we didnt look at a number of defenders but the clubs hands were tied due to the inability to shift players surplus to requirements?
    I don't, but the priority was glaringly obvious and has been for 2 years. Once again it's been failed to be addressed. If you worked for a struggling business and your boss told you to sort things out, do you think he's tolerate the same problem still being an issue two years down the line? You'd be long gone.
    Are you not sick of teams like Brighton and Burnely opening the cheque book and attracting players, whilst we **** around and hope we get lucky with the next wonder kid? We need some experience in the squad. All this stuff about building a squad under the age of 24 is great in principle but won't work when put into practice. We've not got the class of '92 or Sir Alex at the helm!
    Burnley got Drinkwater on loan. He'd have been ideal for us. So would Wanyama. Cahill was available. Again, he'd have done a great job and the young player would benefit from having him in the squad. Djenepo, Adams and Danso are nothing more than massive gambles that have cost us in the region of £40m.
    Most managers know who their strangest 11 is. I don't think RH has a clue who ours is. Neither did MH, MP or CP. Too many average players in nearly every position in the squad. Look at it.
    Gunn or McCarthy - Average. On their day either could have a blinder or cause a major **** up.
    Valery or Soares - One better at going forward, one a slightly better defender. Who do you pick? Doesn't matter really, they're both average.
    The CB situation is the same. He can't play 2 because we don't have 2 quality CB's, so he plays 3 and can't decide who's the best of a bad bunch.
    LB - Same as RB, although we sold one because he was just average so Bertrand is the only realistic option here.
    CM - Romeu, PEH, JWP, Armstrong, Lemina - Lemina's off so forget him. PEH should start every game but he was on the bench at Burnley. Why? Because again, the manager doesn't know who his best option is. PEH looks like a decent player. JWP can be but he's so inconsistent.
    RW / AM / LW- Redmond is probably the only cert in the whole team. Who do you pick for the other positions? Djenepo - completely unproven at this level. Boufal - Christ knows what you'll get so how RH is supposed to know is a mystery.
    Adams - Unproven at this level. Ings - Hit & miss. Long - Hit & Miss. Obafemi - Lacks experience.
    I don't believe anybody knows our strongest 11 because we don't have one! The spine of a great team should pick itself. Ours doesn't because we don't have a spine.
    Last edited by Sidney Fudpucker the 3rd; 12-08-2019 at 11:54 PM.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Charlie Wayman View Post
    Yep, noticeable that most of the nastier comments on the match reaction thread came from people that otherwise never or very rarely post. There seems to be a very nasty element who salivate at the thought of coming on here just to trash the club and all it's players. They are not fans and they should all pick ups their little toys and bugger off!
    I would say no one on this forum enjoys a post match rant at yet another SFC f*** up. The sense of anger and frustration is part of being a "fan" as well as the COYS optimism. In general SFC fans are loyal but realistic, we expect better than the last 3 years but know the limitations of our club. To demand a top 10+ finish every season is unrealistic as recent history has proved. Leicester will never win the PL again.
    However to see attractive competative football and character from our lads is not an unreasonable expectation.

  33. #283

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    Quote Originally Posted by kyle04 View Post
    I would say no one on this forum enjoys a post match rant at yet another SFC f*** up. The sense of anger and frustration is part of being a "fan" as well as the COYS optimism. In general SFC fans are loyal but realistic, we expect better than the last 3 years but know the limitations of our club. To demand a top 10+ finish every season is unrealistic as recent history has proved. Leicester will never win the PL again.
    However to see attractive competative football and character from our lads is not an unreasonable expectation.
    Let's hope for a complete turnaround v Liverpool. I'll be there, along with all the other Saints fans at a sold out St Mary's but will the posters who only post on here to criticize Saints fans when we lose be there too? Unlikely.

  34. #284

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    Quote Originally Posted by ALWAYS_SFC View Post
    This idiot above for 1 example
    Are you going to send me private messages again saying you were going to kick me off the forum? They were much more fun

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    Quote Originally Posted by kermitsaint View Post
    Are you going to send me private messages again saying you were going to kick me off the forum? They were much more fun

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    He sent me a weird pm as well in the past. He's an odd one for sure.

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    Quote Originally Posted by kermitsaint View Post
    Are you going to send me private messages again saying you were going to kick me off the forum? They were much more fun

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    I will admit to sending you a pm explaining to you the type of human you are but have never used the lie you mention but that is you full of sh it

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    Ralph seems too focussed on this idea that we constantly switch shapes. I can only guess that's why he picked Stephens.

    If we switch to a back 4, Stephens will go alongside Romeu and JWP will move wider and forwards.

    But the reality is we've got a bunch of pretty poor players who are mentally quite fragile and a very weak spine to the squad. Better off just sticking with something and grinding through the season.

    Absent any transformative investment it will take a long time to sort this squad out and I'm not sure this summer has particularly helped us in the here and now.

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    Quote Originally Posted by hypochondriac View Post
    He sent me a weird pm as well in the past. He's an odd one for sure.
    Surprised you are still here after your disgusting suggestion on the being searched thread...

    Received a few odd ones from you but not as many as Sadold gets

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    Quote Originally Posted by ALWAYS_SFC View Post
    Surprised you are still here after your disgusting suggestion on the being searched thread...

    Received a few odd ones from you but not as many as Sadold gets
    Got any proof of those claims? Because I can quite easily show the one you sent me.

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    Quote Originally Posted by kermitsaint View Post
    Well in this game he showed that he failed to plan for this game but also couldn't adjust to suit during the game. So yes I don't see anything which makes him anything other than average.
    What exactly did he achieve last season? We limped through the season as we had previously.

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    He kept us up. No mean feat given how poor we were under Hughes.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Sidney Fudpucker the 3rd View Post
    Average, yes. Started well but the last 10 games were very worrying. We should have been home and dry with 5 games to go but in typical Saints style we left it right until the end. The opening game this season just reminded me of some of our latter performances from last season. I like Ralph, I really do. I think he's a great character. However, I don't think he's got a clue when it comes to setting up a team to defend. Who in their right mind would play Jack Stephens when we have two international defenders in the squad??? Strikes me that he's from the Keegan school of management... You score 4, we'll score 5. Although that doesn't look to be going to plan at the moment.
    He clearly thinks that Stephens is a better option than Yoshida and to be fair, skills wise there is not much between them. I would say that Yoshi has the better mental attitude but neither are Premiership quality. Hoedt and Vestergaard are both internationals too remember. When we bought these players we clearly thought that they would be good enough. Some players just don’t seem cut out for Premiership football. There are also decent players who do well in the Premiership and then lose form. Torres is a major example. In our case, Ings can play but seems to have lost it after injury. Lovren was great for us but lost it at Liverpool. Any manager would struggle with the CBs we have.

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    Quote Originally Posted by ALWAYS_SFC View Post
    Surprised you are still here after your disgusting suggestion on the being searched thread...

    Received a few odd ones from you but not as many as Sadold gets
    I'll take your silence as an admission that I have never sent you or soggy a pm and you're a liar.

  43. #293

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    Get a life you lot, honestly.

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