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Thread: Surely the owner is the main problem?

  1. #1

    Default Surely the owner is the main problem?

    I agree thereís loads of other problems but, arenít they the consequences of having an owner who wonít put any money in or hasnít got any and who isnít really interested. How many games does he go to? Wolves and villa and Leicester have owners who are much more interested and have invested lots of money. I think kat has a lot to answer for as there is no way the takeover has benefitted club. Surely we need someone to take over club who has ambition.

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    These things trickle down in all sorts of ways that we can't see. The slide coincides with the ownership change but I don't think the player spending is, in itself, the issue. We've spent quite a bit of money but mostly spent it badly. That's meant spending less in the last couple of windows, which is fair enough in my book. There must be other problems but we don't really know what they are.

  3. #3

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    Quote Originally Posted by DuncanRG View Post
    These things trickle down in all sorts of ways that we can't see. The slide coincides with the ownership change but I don't think the player spending is, in itself, the issue. We've spent quite a bit of money but mostly spent it badly. That's meant spending less in the last couple of windows, which is fair enough in my book. There must be other problems but we don't really know what they are.
    Sounds like kat maybe suing gao for not keeping his promises on investment.

  4. Default

    That's a rumour. Who knows?

  5. #5

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    Roger loves a good rumour.

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    I don't think it's a great secret plenty of us said the take over stank before it was even completed.



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  8. #8

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    Players that were needed after others sold are now out on loan because theyre not good enough ! Total disaster

    A striker, two midfielders and a central defender that alone adds up to around £60 million and then on top of that i bet we're still paying 50% of their wages whilst on loan.

    So were now still playing the same failed players that are not good enough as reecent seasons have shown.

  9. Default

    The players are the problem. Neither the owner, or manager are telling them "we must pass the ball to our opponents", "do not attempt to stop them from scoring".

  10. Default

    Money has been spent. It's where and how that's been the problems

    Why would any owner trust the club with more?

    We've wasted millions on poor signings

  11. #11

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    Goa has basically followed the same strategy as Kat (we’re also no longer net spend champions which was a cert under Kat). The difference is that Kat lucked out -first in having a bumper crop of academy players to sell and second in enjoying a brief spell of fantastic recruitment that many foolishly felt could be repeated ad infinitum.

    These were always shaky foundations on which to sustain long-term growth, leaving very little margin for error. Some regression to the mean was inevitable. A few transfer duds (that at best couldn’t be recycled for a profit and at worst became a drag on the wage bill) and there would be pressure on the owner to dip into their pocket to ensure sufficient quality on the pitch.

    Kat knew it and that’s why she got out, preferring to let someone else take on the risk in the name of taking us to the next level. The idea that she somehow stipulated that Goa spend x amount on the playing squad, on the other hand, is for the birds.
    Last edited by shurlock; 07-10-2019 at 04:57 PM.

  12. #12

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    Quote Originally Posted by DuncanRG View Post
    These things trickle down in all sorts of ways that we can't see. The slide coincides with the ownership change but I don't think the player spending is, in itself, the issue. We've spent quite a bit of money but mostly spent it badly. That's meant spending less in the last couple of windows, which is fair enough in my book. There must be other problems but we don't really know what they are.
    You don't get top class players for the amounts we're spending, thus what we buy isn't good enough. Simple economics really.

  13. #13

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    its never going to be a great recipe when the owner wants to run it like an investment bank

  14. Default

    We got way too cocky with all the "we breed success" and the black box and spent really poorly. They say a great team starts with a great spine and we don't have that. Indeed, we have players that were supposed to be that spine out on loan and millions wasted. New owner doesn't have a pot to **** in so we can't really spend properly until the mistakes are off the books. What a mess.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Saint Keith View Post
    its never going to be a great recipe when the owner wants to run it like an investment bank
    Well, then he needs to get someone in to make some better investments doesn't he. I mean Elynoussi and Armstrong and all that, it's like calling a tenner on a 200/1 shot in the Derby an investment.

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    Manchester United, Tottenham and Everton all spend more on players than we do and all 3 clubs have had poor starts. Liverpool bought Lovren from us for a lot of money to improve their defence and look how that worked out. If the formula was simple every club would end up with the same amount of points. We just don’t have the right mix at the moment. We did for four successive years but still there was whinging. It just shows how well we did then and just how difficult it is for a club our size to either step up or maintain our position. There are clubs flying high at the moment that will be fighting relegation in 2 or 3 seasons time. It’s the way things go if you don’t have a bottomless pot of cash to spend.

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    Quote Originally Posted by sadoldgit View Post
    Manchester United, Tottenham and Everton all spend more on players than we do and all 3 clubs have had poor starts. Liverpool bought Lovren from us for a lot of money to improve their defence and look how that worked out. If the formula was simple every club would end up with the same amount of points. We just don’t have the right mix at the moment. We did for four successive years but still there was whinging. It just shows how well we did then and just how difficult it is for a club our size to either step up or maintain our position. There are clubs flying high at the moment that will be fighting relegation in 2 or 3 seasons time. It’s the way things go if you don’t have a bottomless pot of cash to spend.
    Man U are sh1t at the moment. Even a bottomless pit doesn’t guarantee anything

    We’ll have periods of over achieving and periods of under. Just like every other team of our level

    If there is a obvious problem to me it’s over expectations regardless of how we’re doing

  18. Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Roger View Post
    Sounds like kat maybe suing gao for not keeping his promises on investment.
    She can't sue him for broken promises unless it's a term in the contract. Maybe worded as "remaining 20% payable on (date)" and he hasn't met the payment date.
    She probably told him we were potentially a top 6 club. And we aren't, but he can't sue her unless there's a definite term broken.

  19. #19

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    Heís not the best owner, but not sure we can be overly critical. Heís made available cash we generate and tried to overhaul a failing management team. If you want to be critical then he has made someone endemic in transfer and contract failures the only person left who knows anything about football - with the rest of the new board marketers. That and as far as I can see Ralf has far too much on his plate with no quality advisors and he is losing the plot as a result.

  20. #20

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    Quote Originally Posted by the saint in winchester View Post
    She can't sue him for broken promises unless it's a term in the contract. Maybe worded as "remaining 20% payable on (date)" and he hasn't met the payment date.
    She probably told him we were potentially a top 6 club. And we aren't, but he can't sue her unless there's a definite term broken.
    Not that I particularly believe this lawsuit rumour, but I'd assume that there's potential in the contract that 80% was sold with the agreement of certain investment, possibly in lieu of money to KL, in order to safeguard the value of her investment, i.e. the 20% that she's kept hold of.

    In theory it's the responsibility of the people who run the business to do the right thing by the investors.

  21. #21

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    Being self-sustaining might win you plaudits for economic discipline, but it's a big impediment if other teams have owners who can chip in when required (don't bring up FFP - it doesn't stop owners making modest annual contributions).

  22. #22

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    Quote Originally Posted by verlaine1979 View Post
    Being self-sustaining might win you plaudits for economic discipline, but it's a big impediment if other teams have owners who can chip in when required (don't bring up FFP - it doesn't stop owners making modest annual contributions).
    Markus intended the club to be self-financing so Gao is not any different.

  23. Default

    Remember the heady days of the black box? I blame us for falling for all the hype. Getting ahead of ourselves we were

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    Quote Originally Posted by davefoggy View Post
    Remember the heady days of the black box? I blame us for falling for all the hype. Getting ahead of ourselves we were
    It was absolutely embarrassing. Les Reed grinning away as if he had defied business gravity, that we could consistently beat market and find diamonds in the rough that nobody else was smart enough to find and then sell them at eye-watering prices. It’s the type of bollŰcks you hear from snake oil salesmen and fans of Ponzi schemes.

  25. Default

    Quote Originally Posted by davefoggy View Post
    Remember the heady days of the black box? I blame us for falling for all the hype. Getting ahead of ourselves we were
    Quote Originally Posted by shurlock View Post
    It was absolutely embarrassing. Les Reed grinning away as if he had defied business gravity, that we could consistently beat market and find diamonds in the rough that nobody else was smart enough to find and then sell eye-wateringly high. It’s the type of bollŰcks you hear from snake oil salesmen and fans of Ponzi schemes.

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  26. #26

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    Quote Originally Posted by ecuk268 View Post
    Markus intended the club to be self-financing so Gao is not any different.
    Since it now seems certain that Markus wasn't anywhere close to being a billionaire, he probably couldn't have afforded for the club to be anything other than self-financing once it reached Premier League level. Either way, it's irrelevant - if the club had been treading water like this for the past three years with Markus at the helm, do you think we wouldn't be having these same conversations about investment?

  27. #27

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    Quote Originally Posted by shurlock View Post
    Goa has basically followed the same strategy as Kat (we’re also no longer net spend champions which was a cert under Kat). The difference is that Kat lucked out -first in having a bumper crop of academy players to sell and second in enjoying a brief spell of fantastic recruitment that many foolishly felt could be repeated ad infinitum.

    These were always shaky foundations on which to sustain long-term growth, leaving very little margin for error. Some regression to the mean was inevitable. A few transfer duds (that at best couldn’t be recycled for a profit and at worst became a drag on the wage bill) and there would be pressure on the owner to dip into their pocket to ensure sufficient quality on the pitch.

    Kat knew it and that’s why she got out, preferring to let someone else take on the risk in the name of taking us to the next level. The idea that she somehow stipulated that Goa spend x amount on the playing squad, on the other hand, is for the birds.
    You are correct, but then it is easy to say with hindsight. You weren't saying it 4 or 5 years ago and were only to pleased to condemn me when I predicted exactly our present predicament for the reasons above.

  28. #28

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    The owner is part of the problem, we certainly were fed a load of bullish!t from Kat. The other part is the fact that Les Reed made such a mess of player recruitment. Being stuck with overpaid rubbish players is a killer for clubs our size unless you’ve got an owner willing to finance a large turnaround of players. Looks like they just want to do the minimum to survive while the sh!te see out their contracts.

  29. #29

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    Owner has no money to invest in the squad.

    Ralph shopping in the "potential" bucket around the leagues of europe.

    Transfer team have gone to the Del Boy school of selling players when we have needed a wolf of wall street to move our junk.

  30. #30

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    Quote Originally Posted by aintforever View Post
    The owner is part of the problem, we certainly were fed a load of bullish!t from Kat. The other part is the fact that Les Reed made such a mess of player recruitment. Being stuck with overpaid rubbish players is a killer for clubs our size unless youíve got an owner willing to finance a large turnaround of players. Looks like they just want to do the minimum to survive while the sh!te see out their contracts.
    Completely agree with you for me it's the arrogant approach to recruitment that is at the heart of everything. I don't see why we should expect the owner to spunk his money, he's reinvested what money is there, but we've squandered it on a load of ****e believing our own black box hype and also that our academy is the best in the land.

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  31. #31

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    Quote Originally Posted by Roger View Post
    I agree there’s loads of other problems but, aren’t they the consequences of having an owner who won’t put any money in or hasn’t got any and who isn’t really interested. How many games does he go to? Wolves and villa and Leicester have owners who are much more interested and have invested lots of money. I think kat has a lot to answer for as there is no way the takeover has benefitted club. Surely we need someone to take over club who has ambition.
    Absolutely. Kat has ruined so much good work. Gao is a charlatan and the worst type of owner. Stereotypically, the Chinese like to make money & not spend it which is not a good recipe in an industry which is a billionaire’s playground and you do need to speculate to accumulate despite people often citing sustainability. It’s very difficult to make a sustainable and competitive club in this league, especially with the smaller grounds outside the top 6.

    Gao has brought nothing to the club other than a media blackout and not even had a mission statement, such is the contempt he seems to hold for the fans. All I see is him using our club for his own benefit, to our detriment, to promote football back home with little interest in our actual city or club. As you say, he’s rarely at matches and never engages with the fan base and hasn’t invested at all. Move on if you can’t help us Gao. We need a conscientious owner, not a parasite, making us weaker at each transfer window.

  32. #32

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    We've only had 2 owners in our history that I know of that invested their own money (other than to buy shares). Crouch and Liebherr. The first was not 10s of millions but was fantastic and saved us. The second was an investment where a clear return was available.

    So to blame it all on Gao when he is no different to most owners is unreasonable unless he starts taking money out to service his debt or line his pockets.

    That said I do think he is dodgy as it comes and would love to be shot of him. Sponsorship deal stinks to high heaven and he needs to high a good PR agency to please those fans who need constant soundbites.

  33. #33

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    Does the owner pick the team or coach the players and does he decide which players to buy?

  34. #34

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    Quote Originally Posted by Roger View Post
    Sounds like kat maybe suing gao for not keeping his promises on investment.
    Highly doubt it.

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    The only chance big Kat is now getting involved is if SHE is not getting paid.

    Perhaps he's missed an installment on the £200m he owes her!?

    I don't think she gives a **** about SFC. After inheriting the club she swiftly cut out Cotese, and then sat back while Les Reed meddled and ultimately ****ed us.

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