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Thread: Revenge Killings...

  1. #1

    Default Revenge Killings...

    ...as we've recently been discussing wife beating, innocent rapists and the like recently, I was wondering what the Saintsweb opinion is on situations like this, a pedophile being stabbed to death in prison.

    https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-50042406

    Discuss.

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    Does he deserve to die? Possibly.
    Is it right that vigilante 'justice' has been handed out, in a moral and lawful society, to a man already serving a punishment for his crimes? No.
    Was the person who did it a kind-hearted champion of the people, who was only thinking of the people? Also no, he was likely an incredibly violent individual himself who just fancied the idea of killing a nonce.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Unbelievable Jeff View Post
    ...as we've recently been discussing wife beating, innocent rapists and the like recently, I was wondering what the Saintsweb opinion is on situations like this, a pedophile being stabbed to death in prison.

    https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-50042406

    Discuss.
    Not a lot to discuss. He was evil scum and I won't shed a tear over his death.

    Having said that I'm not going to condone vigilante justice, society can't function that way, and let's face the guy that killed him is probably a scumbag to.

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    He was tried, found guilty and was serving a very long sentence. We do not have the death penalty in this country. Whoever murdered him needs to be tried for murder.

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    Got what he deserved.

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    Probably did him a favor.

    Letting him live in fear and prison forever would have been better.

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    Looks like his attacker is another evil **** sex offender certainly not some sort of vigilante hero.

    https://news.sky.com/story/british-p...ports-11836271



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    Pretty sure most prisons operate a kill on site policy between the prisoners for this sort of thing so it's hardly a surprise.

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    Quote Originally Posted by hypochondriac View Post
    Pretty sure most prisons operate a kill on site policy between the prisoners for this sort of thing so it's hardly a surprise.
    If that is the case, how come there are not several murders in prisons every month. If you are “pretty sure” this is the case, where is your evidence?

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    Quote Originally Posted by Hannibal Lecter
    We live in a primitive time. Neither savage nor wise.
    Half measures are the curse of it, any rational society will either kill me or put me to some use.
    I see no obvious use for the late Richard Huckle.

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    Quote Originally Posted by sadoldgit View Post
    If that is the case, how come there are not several murders in prisons every month. If you are “pretty sure” this is the case, where is your evidence?
    No because criminals who have committed serious sexual assaults are generally kept segregated from other prisoners for precisely this reason. If you're genuinely interested and not just being a contrarian for the sake of it like you normally are, I'd suggest you watch some of the long form interviews conducted by Shaun Atwood:

    https://www.youtube.com/playlist?lis...xwWkNU6C9siHFU

    He interviews ex cons who have been in the prison system for many years and many of them outline this informal policy between the prisoners. Some fascinating insights there if you approach it with an open mind- so probably not your sort of thing.

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    Given that you cannot protect all of the prisoners all of the time I still maintain that this so called policy isn’t working given the number of child molesters who do not get murdered. It is also a big leap forward from going from being a run of the mill offender to murdering someone. Thank you for the link though. I shall watch it later when I have time.

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    Quote Originally Posted by sadoldgit View Post
    Given that you cannot protect all of the prisoners all of the time I still maintain that this so called policy isnít working given the number of child molesters who do not get murdered. It is also a big leap forward from going from being a run of the mill offender to murdering someone. Thank you for the link though. I shall watch it later when I have time.
    Many of the interviewees talk about a kill on sight policy between regular prisoners and paedophiles. Generally they are kept apart from other prisoners for this reason, housed in separate wings away from prisoners who haven't committed sexual crimes. Given that some of these people have spent decades inside UK prisons, I expect they know what they are talking about.

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    Quote Originally Posted by hypochondriac View Post
    Many of the interviewees talk about a kill on sight policy between regular prisoners and paedophiles. Generally they are kept apart from other prisoners for this reason, housed in separate wings away from prisoners who haven't committed sexual crimes. Given that some of these people have spent decades inside UK prisons, I expect they know what they are talking about.
    I expect they do. It’s just in my time in the CJS I never heard about a kill on sight policy. It was generally accepted that child molesters were a target for a good kicking though. If it is true that the person who killed him was also a sex offender it does beg the difference why you are a target for murder if you commit sexual crimes against children but not if you commit them against someone older. I suppose you become fair game for crimes once you reach 16.

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    Quote Originally Posted by sadoldgit View Post
    I expect they do. It’s just in my time in the CJS I never heard about a kill on sight policy. It was generally accepted that child molesters were a target for a good kicking though. If it is true that the person who killed him was also a sex offender it does beg the difference why you are a target for murder if you commit sexual crimes against children but not if you commit them against someone older. I suppose you become fair game for crimes once you reach 16.
    Are you serious?

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    Quote Originally Posted by Turkish View Post
    Are you serious?
    Yeah I would have thought that was fairly obvious.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Turkish View Post
    Are you serious?
    So you think murder can be justified?

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    Quote Originally Posted by hypochondriac View Post
    Yeah I would have thought that was fairly obvious.
    There is no death penalty in this country for sexual offences against children or adults.

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    Quote Originally Posted by sadoldgit View Post
    There is no death penalty in this country for sexual offences against children or adults.
    Who said there was? Do you make it a mission to be deliberately obtuse on every thread?

    Why do you think there might be a difference in the eyes of a criminal between someone who commits sexual crimes against an adult and someone who sexually abuses children?

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    Quote Originally Posted by sadoldgit View Post
    So you think murder can be justified?
    So if someone put a bullet in Hitlerís head ie murdered him in 1943 you would be more more worried about him not having a fair trial?

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    Quote Originally Posted by whelk View Post
    So if someone put a bullet in Hitler’s head ie murdered him in 1943 you would be more more worried about him not having a fair trial?
    How on earth can you compare Hitler to a convicted sex offender? Do you think what happened is ok?

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    Quote Originally Posted by hypochondriac View Post
    Who said there was? Do you make it a mission to be deliberately obtuse on every thread?

    Why do you think there might be a difference in the eyes of a criminal between someone who commits sexual crimes against an adult and someone who sexually abuses children?
    I see, so we are taking morality lessons from convicted criminals now are we? Perhaps we should do away with the judiciary and let the inmates of Wormwood Scrubs dispense justice? I’ll ask you the same question that I asked Whelk. Do you think that this was ok?

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    Quote Originally Posted by sadoldgit View Post
    How on earth can you compare Hitler to a convicted sex offender? Do you think what happened is ok?
    Why are you so concerned about the murder of a convicted serial pedophile?
    Was it a good thing? On balance itís of no consequence, apart from the obvious savings to the tax payer.
    There are a million more worthy injustices in the world for you to shake your fist at. This one is puzzling.

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    Quote Originally Posted by sadoldgit View Post
    So you think murder can be justified?
    Can you not see there might be a difference between sexually assaulting a 6 month old baby and a 30 year old person?

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    Quote Originally Posted by Plastic View Post
    Why are you so concerned about the murder of a convicted serial pedophile?
    Was it a good thing? On balance it’s of no consequence, apart from the obvious savings to the tax payer.
    There are a million more worthy injustices in the world for you to shake your fist at. This one is puzzling.
    There are as you say millions of injustices. People taking the law into their own hands and committing murder is one of them. This man was tried, convicted and was serving his sentence. He was not sentenced to death.

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    Quote Originally Posted by sadoldgit View Post
    How on earth can you compare Hitler to a convicted sex offender? Do you think what happened is ok?
    No one is going to get upset about this. The guy was scum the guy the killed him was also a sex attacker (an underage girl was among his victims) so he will no doubt be tried in court and spend even longer in jail which is a win win for everyone.

    I doubt any one wants a country where braying mobs dispense summary justice ( I know I don't) but in this case the deed is done and given the nature of the victim it is impossible to get upset about it.

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    Quote Originally Posted by sadoldgit View Post
    There are as you say millions of injustices. People taking the law into their own hands and committing murder is one of them. This man was tried, convicted and was serving his sentence. He was not sentenced to death.
    I'm not sure what point you're trying to make, you seem to be flipping continuous between, "this isn't right," and "why would someone want to kill him." No, it isn't right but I can see why a violent criminal would want to administer vigilante justice to a man who has sexually abused children.

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    Quote Originally Posted by sadoldgit View Post
    I see, so we are taking morality lessons from convicted criminals now are we? Perhaps we should do away with the judiciary and let the inmates of Wormwood Scrubs dispense justice? Iíll ask you the same question that I asked Whelk. Do you think that this was ok?
    Genuinely what the f*ck are you talking about? Where have I said that what happened was OK???? The ONLY thing I said was that there is an obvious reason why criminals in prison would treat adult sex offenders differently from kiddy fiddlers. I haven't given any opinion about the rights and wrongs of that treatment.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Lighthouse View Post
    I'm not sure what point you're trying to make, you seem to be flipping continuous between, "this isn't right," and "why would someone want to kill him." No, it isn't right but I can see why a violent criminal would want to administer vigilante justice to a man who has sexually abused children.
    Precisely. Pick a subject and soggy could start an argument about it.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Lighthouse View Post
    I'm not sure what point you're trying to make, you seem to be flipping continuous between, "this isn't right," and "why would someone want to kill him." No, it isn't right but I can see why a violent criminal would want to administer vigilante justice to a man who has sexually abused children.
    Except in this case the criminal who administered the justice is also a convicted child abuser so I doubt this was vigilante justice anyway. More a case of nonce on nonce.

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    Quote Originally Posted by hypochondriac View Post
    Genuinely what the f*ck are you talking about? Where have I said that what happened was OK???? The ONLY thing I said was that there is an obvious reason why criminals in prison would treat adult sex offenders differently from kiddy fiddlers. I haven't given any opinion about the rights and wrongs of that treatment.
    I didn’t say you said it was okay. I asked you if you thought it was ok. Perhaps read what I say before your throw your toys out of the pram. So do you think it is ok?

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    Quote Originally Posted by doddisalegend View Post
    Except in this case the criminal who administered the justice is also a convicted child abuser so I doubt this was vigilante justice anyway. More a case of nonce on nonce.

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    Quote Originally Posted by doddisalegend View Post
    Except in this case the criminal who administered the justice is also a convicted child abuser so I doubt this was vigilante justice anyway. More a case of nonce on nonce.

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    Indeed. So how does that compute? I assume the murderer took the moral high ground but he is hardly in a position to do that. We are making that assumption though. It could have been caused by a variety of things.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Lighthouse View Post
    I'm not sure what point you're trying to make, you seem to be flipping continuous between, "this isn't right," and "why would someone want to kill him." No, it isn't right but I can see why a violent criminal would want to administer vigilante justice to a man who has sexually abused children.
    I don’t think I have asked the question why. I can see why. I just think it is a bit rich that some people who have committed criminal acts to the extent that they are serving long term jail sentences think it is ok to judge other people and to take their lives, especially if they have committed similar offences themselves. Still, I expect Priti Patel is all for it.

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    Quote Originally Posted by sadoldgit View Post
    I didnít say you said it was okay. I asked you if you thought it was ok. Perhaps read what I say before your throw your toys out of the pram. So do you think it is ok?
    I don't want to see vigilante justice so I'd rather it didn't happen but I'm really not going to lose any sleep about it considering he was a serial paedophile. Honestly where are you hoping to go with this conversation?

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    Quote Originally Posted by sadoldgit View Post
    I donít think I have asked the question why. I can see why. I just think it is a bit rich that some people who have committed criminal acts to the extent that they are serving long term jail sentences think it is ok to judge other people and to take their lives, especially if they have committed similar offences themselves. Still, I expect Priti Patel is all for it.
    Maybe go and visit the prison and let him know. I'm sure he'd appreciate the visit.

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    Quote Originally Posted by hypochondriac View Post
    I don't want to see vigilante justice so I'd rather it didn't happen but I'm really not going to lose any sleep about it considering he was a serial paedophile. Honestly where are you hoping to go with this conversation?
    Good, then we agree that vigilante justice is not a good thing.

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    Quote Originally Posted by sadoldgit View Post
    I don’t think I have asked the question why. I can see why. I just think it is a bit rich that some people who have committed criminal acts to the extent that they are serving long term jail sentences think it is ok to judge other people and to take their lives, especially if they have committed similar offences themselves. Still, I expect Priti Patel is all for it.


    Yes it is, "a bit rich," I can't argue with that.

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    Quote Originally Posted by doddisalegend View Post
    Except in this case the criminal who administered the justice is also a convicted child abuser so I doubt this was vigilante justice anyway. More a case of nonce on nonce.

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    After hypos kill on sight post I read a couple of reports from America about inmates killing inmates in prison. It appears to be far more prevalent over there and there are many incidents of guards turning a blind eye when attacks are made. It also appears that the attacks are generally aimed at sex offenders rather than just child sex offenders over there.

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    Quote Originally Posted by sadoldgit View Post
    Good, then we agree that vigilante justice is not a good thing.
    Not sure why we are having this discussion as no one said it was?

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    Quote Originally Posted by sadoldgit View Post
    After hypos kill on sight post I read a couple of reports from America about inmates killing inmates in prison. It appears to be far more prevalent over there and there are many incidents of guards turning a blind eye when attacks are made. It also appears that the attacks are generally aimed at sex offenders rather than just child sex offenders over there.
    Well then not beyond the bounds of possibility that it would happen here then.

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    This thread is worth a read just to discover the term nonce-on-nonce.

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    Quote Originally Posted by whelk View Post
    Name of a band wasnít it?
    If it isn't it probably should be..

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    Quote Originally Posted by rallyboy View Post
    This thread is worth a read just to discover the term nonce-on-nonce.
    I get the feeling one day it might be used in a court case....

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    Quote Originally Posted by hypochondriac View Post
    Not sure why we are having this discussion as no one said it was?
    Have we been reading the same thread? But then you do support Katie Hopkins so I guess we read things differently.

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    Quote Originally Posted by doddisalegend View Post
    Except in this case the criminal who administered the justice is also a convicted child abuser so I doubt this was vigilante justice anyway. More a case of nonce on nonce.
    Jealousy?

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    Levi Bellfield attempts suicide, but for some reason we need to keep him alive...

    https://apple.news/AzGLUek3HS_2ToqN5HE95Pw

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    Quote Originally Posted by sadoldgit View Post
    After hypos kill on sight post I read a couple of reports from America about inmates killing inmates in prison. It appears to be far more prevalent over there and there are many incidents of guards turning a blind eye when attacks are made. It also appears that the attacks are generally aimed at sex offenders rather than just child sex offenders over there.
    Can you post the reports as be interesting to see their justifications?

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    Quote Originally Posted by Unbelievable Jeff View Post
    Can you post the reports as be interesting to see their justifications?
    From the sound of things it's more just a code that prisoners are expected to live by. If they are given the opportunity then they have to try to kill child abusers or they get hurt by people themselves.

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