General Election 2019 - Post Match Reaction

Well, I'm not one to normally buy into conspiracies about audiences, but the audience did seem Labour Remain leaning as a whole. So it was pretty hostile to Swinson and Johnson for starters. Out of the latter two, I actually think Swinson dealt with the hostility best, but wow it was an onslaught. Fair play to her. Sadly, I still think we are headed for an overall Johnson Majority, but hopefully it can be significantly reduced by good local performances.

Swinson is pure Remain so plenty of the audience should've been on her side.

Swinson is pure Remain so plenty of the audience should've been on her side.

Well, there is definitely a split in the Remain approach. But you'd expect in an audience of that size for there to be at least a 10-15% friendly's and maybe another 5-10% of potential friendlys, not just 100% hostile. Anyway, it is what it is. And as I said, I think she actually did well given the circumstances. Answered all the questions directly etc. Boris just blustered his way through.

Johnson got a roasting but not as much as Swinson. Not surprising given the sell out to the Tories. Corbyn did ok and Sturgeon was Sturgeon. Doubt if these things change anyone’s minds.

Well, I'm not one to normally buy into conspiracies about audiences, but the audience did seem Labour Remain leaning as a whole. So it was pretty hostile to Swinson and Johnson for starters. Out of the latter two, I actually think Swinson dealt with the hostility best, but wow it was an onslaught. Fair play to her. Sadly, I still think we are headed for an overall Johnson Majority, but hopefully it can be significantly reduced by good local performances.

It was bizarre that not one voice in the audience seemed positive towards Swinson/Lib Dems at all. I don't think she did great but she was dealt a tough hand. She took quite a lot of flak for what were clearly CCHQ policies that the Libs were junior coalition partners in. Its difficult to know when they will ever shake off 2010.

One thing, you have to doff your cap to Swinson, she is pretty steadfast on her position and it is pretty clear.

And you are right, what the hell did people expect given they were the junior members of a coalition....

One thing, you have to doff your cap to Swinson, she is pretty steadfast on her position and it is pretty clear.

 

And you are right, what the hell did people expect given they were the junior members of a coalition....

What they can't pull off is having unequivocal positions on major topics. And while their Brexit position is coherent and clear, I do not think it is going to play that well. The problem is it only makes sense if Swinson accepts and admits they won't win a majority, that it is just a stake in the ground as a negotiation point with either Labour or CCHQ in a coalition/confidence agreement. I don't think people have accepted this premise which us why she's getting cra p for "not being democratic".

Later night it did feel the air was rapidly disappearing from the Lib Dem balloon.

The final factor is she is nowhere near as capable a performer as Kennedy, Ashdown or Clegg who were far more personable/authoritative performers in that kind of arena.

The problem with the Lib Dems post 2010 us they've lost their strongest electoral strategy. Charles Kennedy, Paddy Ashdown and Nick Clegg made seat gains by being a completely different party in different parts of the country, with different messages in the South-west, Norfolk, Scotland and in big cities depending on who they were up against, they were great shape-shifters and they got 40-60 seats off the back of it. Maybe the pre-Twitter age helped too.

 

What they can't pull off is having unequivocal positions on major topics. And while their Brexit position is coherent and clear, I do not think it is going to play that well. The problem is it only makes sense if Swinson accepts and admits they won't win a majority, that it is just a stake in the ground as a negotiation point with either Labour or CCHQ in a coalition/confidence agreement. I don't think people have accepted this premise which us why she's getting cra p for "not being democratic".

 

Later night it did feel the air was rapidly disappearing from the Lib Dem balloon.

 

The final factor is she is nowhere near as capable a performer as Kennedy, Ashdown or Clegg who were far more personable/authoritative performers in that kind of arena.

Agree. I think Swinson and Jezza will be the high profile casualties post election

The problem with the Lib Dems post 2010 us they've lost their strongest electoral strategy. Charles Kennedy, Paddy Ashdown and Nick Clegg made seat gains by being a completely different party in different parts of the country, with different messages in the South-west, Norfolk, Scotland and in big cities depending on who they were up against, they were great shape-shifters and they got 40-60 seats off the back of it. Maybe the pre-Twitter age helped too.

 

What they can't pull off is having unequivocal positions on major topics. And while their Brexit position is coherent and clear, I do not think it is going to play that well. The problem is it only makes sense if Swinson accepts and admits they won't win a majority, that it is just a stake in the ground as a negotiation point with either Labour or CCHQ in a coalition/confidence agreement. I don't think people have accepted this premise which us why she's getting cra p for "not being democratic".

 

Later night it did feel the air was rapidly disappearing from the Lib Dem balloon.

 

The final factor is she is nowhere near as capable a performer as Kennedy, Ashdown or Clegg who were far more personable/authoritative performers in that kind of arena.

I agree with much of this. Unfortunately for them they do not seem to have politicians with the appeal and gravitas of Kennedy, Clegg or Ashdown in their ranks these days.

I also think, as said by somebody above, that they are too apologetic abiut their part in the coalition. They were junior partners but took huge amounts of flak for student loans. They don't take credit for good things that they did.

What good things did they do?? I have little idea -partly because they don't mention them! I do know however that Steve Webb the pensions minister and a lib dem did introduce some much needed reforms into the pension scheme. I am at an age which has meant that I have been able to benefit immensely from them. Given another term in office I am sure that he would have done more. He lost his seat in 2015, received a knighthood and I guess is probably earning shed loads more money in private industry.

Well, I'm not one to normally buy into conspiracies about audiences, but the audience did seem Labour Remain leaning as a whole. So it was pretty hostile to Swinson and Johnson for starters. Out of the latter two, I actually think Swinson dealt with the hostility best, but wow it was an onslaught. Fair play to her. Sadly, I still think we are headed for an overall Johnson Majority, but hopefully it can be significantly reduced by good local performances.

Of course the audience was stilted towards remain/Labour. This was a BBC Question Time format, so what else would you expect? Haven't seen you in a while, Lib Dem Andy.

Swinson didn't do well at all, because any democrats in the audience were naturally scathing that a party with "Democrats" in its name would promise to overturn a referendum decision without it even having been implemented. I don't know in which constituency you live, but the Lib Dumbs here in Eastleigh are bombarding the residents with pamphlets produced locally and nationally by their propaganda merchants. So far in all of their output, I count the word "Brexit" being featured only two or three times, and not at all in the latest one, which featured one of their famous misleading bar charts showing them as first, conservative second. The small print explained that this was based on local authority election results earlier this year; you know, the one where about 65% of the electorate couldn't be bothered to cast a vote. Any guesses on when they will actually bother to state their position on wanting to revoke Article 50, or would that lose them any chance of being elected in a leave voting constituency?

According to them, this is a choice between "A London Conservative already rejected by voters" and "A brighter future with Linda Murphy's Lib Dems". Swinson was twice rejected by voters before she was elected, both times in constituencies where she didn't live, one not even in Scotland, her country of birth. Murphy hasn't previously been rejected by voters in a GE because she hasn't previously stood. But no doubt if she is defeated this time and stands again, there will be no mention from them that she has already been rejected by voters.

Didn’t catch the debate, so interested in the unbiased opinions of respected posters on here. Surprised that the anti Boris crowd said he had a mare, they’re normally so balanced. Listened to Stephen Bush who claimed Boris will come out happiest, mainly because of Krankie insisting Corbyn will fold and give her indi 2, but also because he did ok in front of a hostile audience. However, Bush must be a far right facist to think Boris did ok, so I’ll go with the balanced guys on here. After all they don’t let their political affiliations and hatred of Boris cloud their judgement.

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Of course the audience was stilted towards remain/Labour. This was a BBC Question Time format, so what else would you expect? Haven't seen you in a while, Lib Dem Andy.

 

Swinson didn't do well at all, because any democrats in the audience were naturally scathing that a party with "Democrats" in its name would promise to overturn a referendum decision without it even having been implemented. I don't know in which constituency you live, but the Lib Dumbs here in Eastleigh are bombarding the residents with pamphlets produced locally and nationally by their propaganda merchants. So far in all of their output, I count the word "Brexit" being featured only two or three times, and not at all in the latest one, which featured one of their famous misleading bar charts showing them as first, conservative second. The small print explained that this was based on local authority election results earlier this year; you know, the one where about 65% of the electorate couldn't be bothered to cast a vote. Any guesses on when they will actually bother to state their position on wanting to revoke Article 50, or would that lose them any chance of being elected in a leave voting constituency?

 

According to them, this is a choice between "A London Conservative already rejected by voters" and "A brighter future with Linda Murphy's Lib Dems". Swinson was twice rejected by voters before she was elected, both times in constituencies where she didn't live, one not even in Scotland, her country of birth. Murphy hasn't previously been rejected by voters in a GE because she hasn't previously stood. But no doubt if she is defeated this time and stands again, there will be no mention from them that she has already been rejected by voters.

And yet I know Labour supporters who swear blind the BBC is biased towards the Tories!

Anyway, Boris always looks uncomfortable in front of an audience not of his persuasion so no surprise he didn’t do well. Given the amount of lies he spouts he is never going to look comfortable when question about telling the truth.

Swinson was given the toughest time. As a LibDem voter myself from the 70’s to 2010 I can see why. I felt very let down when they joined the Tories and backed their austerity programme and I can’t trust them not to do it again. I guess many other LibDems feel the same. The trouble is where does your vote go? Certainly not to the Tories. I voted tactically last time (Labour) and will probably do the same again, but I would prefer to vote for the party of my convictions. The LibDems still have a long way to go to win back my trust.

Didn’t catch the debate, so interested in the unbiased opinions of respected posters on here. Surprised that the anti Boris crowd said he had a mare, they’re normally so balanced. Listened to Stephen Bush who claimed Boris will come out happiest, mainly because of Krankie insisting Corbyn will fold and give her indi 2, but also because he did ok in front of a hostile audience. However, Bush must be a far right facist to think Boris did ok, so I’ll go with the balanced guys on here. After all they don’t let their political affiliations and hatred of Boris cloud their judgement.

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You only have to refer to the poll on the Brexit thread to see that this forum is stuffed full of remoaners, so no surprise that the opinions on here reflect that. Additionally, the remoaners here are an arrogant anti-democratic lot who love insulting anybody who voted to leave, with the usual claptrap that they must be thick not to wish to remain in the failing, increasingly imperialistic, bureaucratic protectionist cartel that is the EU. Rather than face childish insults, many have deserted the thread, so naturally the remoaner voice gets stronger by default. Anyway, as a football forum, there wouldn't be many Tory voters here in any event, but at least we are in the midst of a majority leave voting South of England, so they are out of step there at least.

Didn’t catch the debate, so interested in the unbiased opinions of respected posters on here. Surprised that the anti Boris crowd said he had a mare, they’re normally so balanced. Listened to Stephen Bush who claimed Boris will come out happiest, mainly because of Krankie insisting Corbyn will fold and give her indi 2, but also because he did ok in front of a hostile audience. However, Bush must be a far right facist to think Boris did ok, so I’ll go with the balanced guys on here. After all they don’t let their political affiliations and hatred of Boris cloud their judgement.

 

 

 

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#impartialponyhunter

Anti democratic? I would say that refusing a second vote was anti democratic (unless changing your mind is not allowed in a democracy) I would say that ignoring the will of the people in Scotland was anti democratic. I would say ignoring the will of the people in Northern Ireland is anti democratic. I would say ignoring the will of half the country is anti democratic. And as for constantly calling people who voted to stay “Remoaners” is not only very childish, it is also an ignorant comment about people who care about the future of the country and the people in it.

Oh, and if any Tory voters have deserted this thread, maybe it is because they are embarrassed to support Boris Johnson?

You only have to refer to the poll on the Brexit thread to see that this forum is stuffed full of remoaners, so no surprise that the opinions on here reflect that. Additionally, the remoaners here are an arrogant anti-democratic lot who love insulting anybody who voted to leave, with the usual claptrap that they must be thick not to wish to remain in the failing, increasingly imperialistic, bureaucratic protectionist cartel that is the EU. Rather than face childish insults, many have deserted the thread, so naturally the remoaner voice gets stronger by default. Anyway, as a football forum, there wouldn't be many Tory voters here in any event, but at least we are in the midst of a majority leave voting South of England, so they are out of step there at least.

A second refurendum would be way more democratic than this shambles of a general election.

We are faced with a choice between a Hard Brexit (probably without a deal) or a socialist utopia - two things I doubt the majority of people want. It is no choice we should have to face and if all the experts are to believed, either result is going to be bad for the economy.

Anti democratic? I would say that refusing a second vote was anti democratic (unless changing your mind is not allowed in a democracy) I would say that ignoring the will of the people in Scotland was anti democratic. I would say ignoring the will of the people in Northern Ireland is anti democratic. I would say ignoring the will of half the country is anti democratic. And as for constantly calling people who voted to stay “Remoaners” is not only very childish, it is also an ignorant comment about people who care about the future of the country and the people in it.

Suck it up, undemocratic, remoaner loser. Your arguments on democracy are risible. The Scots had their very own referendum on independence and like you, the SNP started bleating about having another five minutes after they lost it. The Scots, Welsh and the Northern Irish (although not currently) have their own Parliaments/Assemblies, and additionally are allowed to have MPs in the UK Parliament. We English do not have our own exclusive Parliament. Do you think that situation is democratic? Don't try and pretend that you are a democrat when you can't even accept the decision of a referendum vote;

Oh, and if any Tory voters have deserted this thread, maybe it is because they are embarrassed to support Boris Johnson?

No its because they're embarrassed to be associated with the likes of Les.

#unhinged

A second refurendum would be way more democratic than this shambles of a general election.

 

We are faced with a choice between a Hard Brexit (probably without a deal) or a socialist utopia - two things I doubt the majority of people want. It is no choice we should have to face and if all the experts are to believed, either result is going to be bad for the economy.

A second (third) referendum would only be democratic if a remain option was not included, that decision having already been decided by the electorate. The shambles only came about where there was a two thirds majority of constituencies that voted leave, returning a two thirds majority of remoaner MPs, they having mostly voted through Article 50 by a large majority, and stood on manifestos pledging to honour the referendum result. Their betrayal of their electorates is the reason that they should face them in a General Election, rather than having another rigged referendum where regardless of the result they would continue to try and thwart it, just like the girl Swinson says she would.

No its because they're embarrassed to be associated with the likes of Les.

 

#unhinged

Reading the bile that he has come out with this morning I am not surprised. I bet he is fun at parties.... unless of course he is the entertainment thay people are expected to laugh at.

No its because they're embarrassed to be associated with the likes of Les.

 

#unhinged

It's because of the insults from insufferable narcissists like you. Seek help.

Suck it up, undemocratic, remoaner loser. Your arguments on democracy are risible. The Scots had their very own referendum on independence and like you, the SNP started bleating about having another five minutes after they lost it. The Scots, Welsh and the Northern Irish (although not currently) have their own Parliaments/Assemblies, and additionally are allowed to have MPs in the UK Parliament. We English do not have our own exclusive Parliament. Do you think that situation is democratic? Don't try and pretend that you are a democrat when you can't even accept the decision of a referendum vote;

And you wonder why people who voted leave and behave like you do are so widely disliked?

It's because of the insults from insufferable narcissists like you. Seek help.

I think you should take a breath Wes.

New poll out and things looking bleak for Labour but great for CCHQ.

Westminster voting intention:

CCHQ: 42% (-)

LAB: 30% (-)

LDEM: 16% (+1)

GRN: 4% (-)

BREX: 3% (-1)

via @YouGov, 21 - 22 Nov

Chgs. w/ 19 Nov

https://t.co/t8Le7zYNh5

Labour’s policies seem to be popular but Corbyn isn’t.

Labour’s policies seem to be popular but Corbyn isn’t.

I would say that Corbyn will be disliked by most people whatever he says now. On the other hand, judging by posts on here, Johnson could do pretty much anything and get fanboy style worship from most tories. He's obviously doing something right to make his followers feel well represented.

Discussion on here is like a parody of real life discussion though. I've never been chatting with people about politics in real life where there is never a single recognition that the other side has some merit in their argument. Here everything is black and white, right or wrong, stupid or intelligent, good or evil, a bit like the opinions people had when we were teenagers and knew everything. You probably need one hand to count the people who are able to understand the points of Conservative, Labour and the Liberals, without just putting their fingers in their ears and just shutting out all discussion. I think people consider being able to genuinely reconsider or examine other sides of an argument as a weakness.

What a load of pony and trap, as our resident cockernee geezer would say.

Labour’s policies seem to be popular but Corbyn isn’t.

Labour’s policies seem to be popular but Corbyn isn’t.

I would not just say COrbyn...

If you took away Corbyn, McDonnell, Thornberry and Abbot and replaced them with fresh faces with Starmer as leader and tone down the insane spending a tad.....bang, you have yourself a government

A second (third) referendum would only be democratic if a remain option was not included, that decision having already been decided by the electorate. The shambles only came about where there was a two thirds majority of constituencies that voted leave, returning a two thirds majority of remoaner MPs, they having mostly voted through Article 50 by a large majority, and stood on manifestos pledging to honour the referendum result. Their betrayal of their electorates is the reason that they should face them in a General Election, rather than having another rigged referendum where regardless of the result they would continue to try and thwart it, just like the girl Swinson says she would.

The MPs that voted against the Brexit deal were only doing what Boris Johnson did twice. If they think the deal would not be good for their constituents it is their duty to vote against it, just like Boris did.

The MPs that voted against the Brexit deal were only doing what Boris Johnson did twice. If they think the deal would not be good for their constituents it is their duty to vote against it, just like Boris did.

Swinson admitted last night that many MPs in cohorts with her were simply trying to stop brexit with the continued votes against any agreement put to the house

But the opinion polls tell us that we could have a Government with Johnson, Gove, Patel, Raab etc. How is that any better?

But the opinion polls tell us that we could have a Government with Johnson, Gove, Patel, Raab etc. How is that any better?

Than corbyn, McDonnell, Thornerry and Abbot...Dianne, f-in abbot.........yes, it is better

Tragic as that is but that is the state of the Labour Party viewed by the many..

Swinson admitted last night that many MPs in cohorts with her were simply trying to stop brexit with the continued votes against any agreement put to the house

Obviously some were but most were not otherwise Boris deal wouldn’t have gone through. The only deal Parliament blocked was May’s deal which Boris twice voted against.

And another poll. I think Boris might just sneak a majority you know.

Westminster voting intention:

CCHQ: 47% (+3)

LAB: 28% (-)

LDEM: 12% (-2)

BREX: 3% (-3)

via @OpiniumResearch

Chgs. w/ 15 Nov

Than corbyn, McDonnell, Thornerry and Abbot...Dianne, f-in abbot.........yes, it is better

 

Tragic as that is but that is the state of the Labour Party viewed by the many..

We will have to agree to disagree and although I am no fan of Diane Abbot I would still rather see her on the front bench than the deeply unpleasant Priti Patel.

Than corbyn, McDonnell, Thornerry and Abbot...Dianne, f-in abbot.........yes, it is better

 

Tragic as that is but that is the state of the Labour Party viewed by the many..

And another poll. I think Boris might just sneak a majority you know.

 

 

 

Westminster voting intention:

 

CCHQ: 47% (+3)

LAB: 28% (-)

LDEM: 12% (-2)

BREX: 3% (-3)

 

via @OpiniumResearch

Chgs. w/ 15 Nov

If these are worth anything, this is landslide territory.

But the opinion polls tell us that we could have a Government with Johnson, Gove, Patel, Raab etc. How is that any better?

I agree.

We could do a lot better.

Gove is a ****ing Cameron pinko, and aside from Brexit so was Boris. The juries out on whether Boris has genuinely seen the light and become a proper Tory. If he hasn’t, he’ll have to go.

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And yet I know Labour supporters who swear blind the BBC is biased towards the Tories!

 

Anyway, Boris always looks uncomfortable in front of an audience not of his persuasion so no surprise he didn’t do well. Given the amount of lies he spouts he is never going to look comfortable when question about telling the truth.

 

Swinson was given the toughest time. As a LibDem voter myself from the 70’s to 2010 I can see why. I felt very let down when they joined the Tories and backed their austerity programme and I can’t trust them not to do it again. I guess many other LibDems feel the same. The trouble is where does your vote go? Certainly not to the Tories. I voted tactically last time (Labour) and will probably do the same again, but I would prefer to vote for the party of my convictions. The LibDems still have a long way to go to win back my trust.

Is it any wonder the BBC get accused of bias when they do things like this?

https://twitter.com/paulmasonnews/status/1198336234202030081

This on top of 'accidentally' using footage from the 2016 Remembrance service recently, instead of showing Johnson looking hungover and laying his wreath upside down.

Their credibility is shot.

Last bit of polling stuff today, this is the first seat projection using polling data and other modelling data. Basically a comfortable majority for Boris and Lib Dems get nowhere. Also, the SNP don't clean up in Scotland after all.

Before anyone asks the guy who put it up did not include other parties, so that's why the number doesn't add up to 650.

From Tim Shipman's Twitter:

BREAKING: First big election model seat projection predicts CCHQ majority of 48

CCHQ 349

Lab 213

LD 14

SNP 49

Plaid 5

Green 1

Speaker 1

Datapraxis ran 270,000 YouGov interviews through their own predictive MRP model (like the ones that predicted the last election)

I would say that Corbyn will be disliked by most people whatever he says now. On the other hand, judging by posts on here, Johnson could do pretty much anything and get fanboy style worship from most tories. He's obviously doing something right to make his followers feel well represented.

 

Discussion on here is like a parody of real life discussion though. I've never been chatting with people about politics in real life where there is never a single recognition that the other side has some merit in their argument. Here everything is black and white, right or wrong, stupid or intelligent, good or evil, a bit like the opinions people had when we were teenagers and knew everything. You probably need one hand to count the people who are able to understand the points of Conservative, Labour and the Liberals, without just putting their fingers in their ears and just shutting out all discussion. I think people consider being able to genuinely reconsider or examine other sides of an argument as a weakness.

 

What a load of pony and trap, as our resident cockernee geezer would say.

You seem surprised that not one, but two, 'two horse' races would produce polarising views!

Is it any wonder the BBC get accused of bias when they do things like this?

 

https://twitter.com/paulmasonnews/status/1198336234202030081

 

This on top of 'accidentally' using footage from the 2016 Remembrance service recently, instead of showing Johnson looking hungover and laying his wreath upside down.

 

Their credibility is shot.

Apparently they also made up the audience according to seats in Parliament so there were very few LibDem supporters and more Brexiteers than remainers. Call me old fashioned but if you want fair conditions to run a debate of this magnitude surely you divide the audience up equally to ensure a level playing ground for all of the speakers?

Apparently they also made up the audience according to seats in Parliament so there were very few LibDem supporters and more Brexiteers than remainers. Call me old fashioned but if you want fair conditions to run a debate of this magnitude surely you divide the audience up equally to ensure a level playing ground for all of the speakers?

The audience had Labour Party employees in. Kudos to momentum for pulling that out of the bag..

In other news

We will have to agree to disagree and although I am no fan of Diane Abbot I would still rather see her on the front bench than the deeply unpleasant Priti Patel.

And let's have her as Chancellor of the Exchequer. Her grasp of economics and unfailing recall of her brief requires it to be implemented. Also McDonnell is in the wrong post. He should clearly be Foreign Secretary, as his empathy towards those regimes most likely to cause WW3 is a valuable asset to our diplomatic prowess.

#draintheswamp

#makeBritaingreatagain

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Another five away announced By Labour this morning - that was not included in the Manifesto the other day.

Just to the tune of £58bn this time.

The audience had Labour Party employees in. Kudos to momentum for pulling that out of the bag..

 

In other news

 

 

Not that you would have known.

And let's have her as Chancellor of the Exchequer. Her grasp of economics and unfailing recall of her brief requires it to be implemented. Also McDonnell is in the wrong post. He should clearly be Foreign Secretary, as his empathy towards those regimes most likely to cause WW3 is a valuable asset to our diplomatic prowess.

Meanwhile you have the amazingly gifted Chris Grayling who has managed to **** up in every job he has had. People in glass houses etc.