Man City V Saints (again) - Build Up

I think it will be the same team as on Tuesday second half, more or less. Seems they are on their way back, with more confidence now, hopefully. If we can defend a 0-0 for a while, our attackers will get more courage.

sure but that will be a big IF. how many teams can hold man city even for 45 minutes? its extremely difficult even for decent teams, which means for a team as mistake ridden and bereft of confidence and concentration as saints its impossible, thus we can't hope to just defend and rely on our shambolic defence to keep out the likes of sterling, de bruyne, aguero, jesus and silva. our defence couldn't be trusted to keep out a league one level attack as evidenced by the pompey game where they battered us early in the first half. we'd be fooling ourselves if we think we could negate one of the most talented and prolific attackers in europe.

our best hope would be to field the quickest players we have in attack, and the same defence as last tuesday and hope that after absorbing their barrage of attacks, we try to run at their goal as often and as quick as possible with armstrong hopefully linking play. i hope we drop jwp and replace him with an u23. are there any decent DMs in our u23 these days? as jwp offers nothing more than running in close proximity of a player without any effort whatsoever to recover the ball, if ralph can dig up any decent academy player who can lineup alongside rom and armstrong in midfield, it would be magnificent.

To quote the Guardian...

This might be the first, certainly in Premier League history, in which both sides would accept a 4-0 home win.

Probably about right and how sad is that....

Just watching a game on ITV and the black team are all standing in a big, long line across the middle of the pitch. It seems quite hard for the other team to get through, could be worth a try.

Any line-up that doesn't include JWP has a chance. He's been awful.

A song for JWP:

To quote the Guardian...

 

 

 

Probably about right and how sad is that....

Who remembers when we were quite good and on the cusp of something?

Until 2017, we had a winning record against Man City. They were a team we expected to beat at least once every season and we beat them 4-2 in 2016. Since then, however, they have won 6 consecutive games against us. The fact we now expect to lose to them by around 6 goals and a defeat by fewer than 4 goals would be considered a good result does, indeed, show how much we have declined since 2016.

https://www.soccerbase.com/teams/head_to_head.sd?team_id=2471&team2_id=1718

Until 2017, we had a winning record against Man City. They were a team we expected to beat at least once every season and we beat them 4-2 in 2016. Since then, however, they have won 6 consecutive games against us. The fact we now expect to lose to them by around 6 goals and a defeat by fewer than 4 goals would be considered a good result does, indeed, show how much we have declined since 2016.

 

https://www.soccerbase.com/teams/head_to_head.sd?team_id=2471&team2_id=1718

It also shows how far they've improved since 2016 - you only need to look at their team that day to see that...bolds are those that are still at the club...

J Hart, A Kolarov, E Mangala, N Otamendi, P Zabaleta, S Nasri, F Delph (J Navas, 64), R Sterling, Fernandinho, (M Demichelis, 60), W Bony, K Iheanacho

I had a look in RHs coaching history. In 2015/2016, around that time, he coached an underdog in Bundesliga. His team had just ascended from the league below. He didn't change the team, because he said, all the men deserve to play in First Bundesliga and they got 11th or so at the end. When they lost then it was normally with only 1 goal difference, even when playing against Bayern München, coached by Pep Guardiola!

So that is the claim of RH and not "only" 4 or 6 goals difference. I think his target is to take a draw on Saturday.

I know the hope dies last.

Until 2017, we had a winning record against Man City. They were a team we expected to beat at least once every season and we beat them 4-2 in 2016. Since then, however, they have won 6 consecutive games against us. The fact we now expect to lose to them by around 6 goals and a defeat by fewer than 4 goals would be considered a good result does, indeed, show how much we have declined since 2016.

 

https://www.soccerbase.com/teams/head_to_head.sd?team_id=2471&team2_id=1718

According to your own link we have beaten then twice since we came back up to the PL. Both those games where at SMS so I'm not sure how that becomes interpreted at expecting to beat them at least once a season? The only difference is we used to expect to lose in a closer game now we expect to lose by a cricket score...

So Ralph still can’t actually decide between Gunn and McCarthy for this game. It’s is a clear misjudgement of the evidence before him that is so disturbing and encourages a lack of respect from his players and many fans.

So many aspects of the game seem to pass him by...

Would drop JWP - pointless playing him in the vain hope he will create something or defend anything. Also pointless is 5 at the back - it just invites pressure on an awfully frail defence. I would go 4-2-3-1 and tell the team to defend as one, break as one. I do think City are slightly fragile if the game is taken to them, but get their tails up if they smell blood (not hard with our squad). It will still be 4 or 5 nil to them, with a possible consolidatory goal from us. The only thing I'm looking forward to is the rugby on Saturday to be honest.

https://www.southamptonfc.com/first-team#season-stats

According to your own link we have beaten then twice since we came back up to the PL. Both those games where at SMS so I'm not sure how that becomes interpreted at expecting to beat them at least once a season? The only difference is we used to expect to lose in a closer game now we expect to lose by a cricket score...

Our record against Man City until 2017 was: Total won 31 drew 25 lost 29 Simple as that.

https://www.southamptonfc.com/first-team#season-stats

I think JWP has been excellent this season. Ludicrous that he has been overlooked by Southgate!

Personally think he has been poor, but i wont sprouting he is bad when he is clearly doing much more than Redders n boufal in the creativity department, and Redders and boufal only make the team for creative reasons where as jwp has a number of dutys to do like baby sitting val.

Our record against Man City until 2017 was: Total won 31 drew 25 lost 29 Simple as that.

To be fair for most of those games Man City weren't owned by one of the richest men in the world, but we did always seem to do quite well against them.

Where's the smart money on tomorrow's game? Man City -3 handicap?

No Obafemi tomorrow

Our record against Man City until 2017 was: Total won 31 drew 25 lost 29 Simple as that.

It's not really as simple as that though is it? if we used to beat them in 1980 something it has no bearing on the present at all. If you look at the last few years, since we came back to the PL and since Man City got half the wealth of the Arabian peninsula chucked at them, then we've beaten them twice. I doubt any one the last few years has expected us to beat man city "at least once a season" like you claimed.

No Obafemi tomorrow

Not a great loss I'm sad to say.

Personally think he has been poor, but i wont sprouting he is bad when he is clearly doing much more than Redders n boufal in the creativity department, and Redders and boufal only make the team for creative reasons where as jwp has a number of dutys to do like baby sitting val.

For once you might be right about JWP according to Whoscored ratings he is our third best player this season so far (though him and Redmond whose fourth are rated pretty much the same so he isn't clearly doing more than Redmond). Interestingly, according to the ratings, of our three regular central midfielders our worst performer is actually Hojberg..

https://www.whoscored.com/Teams/18/Show/England-Southampton

For once you might be right about JWP according to Whoscored ratings he is our third best player this season so far (though him and Redmond whose fourth are rated pretty much the same so he isn't clearly doing more than Redmond). Interestingly, according to the ratings, of our three regular central midfielders our worst performer is actually Hojberg..

 

https://www.whoscored.com/Teams/18/Show/England-Southampton

I always feel with JWP that his rating can be improved based solely on the the volume of free kicks or corners he takes that can lead to a goal, he gets the assist but I would argue the volume he gets he actually underperforms.

In fluid play he is a very very very average player, he is a modern day version of david prutton

Anyone know if there are more going tomorrow than tuesday ?

It's not really as simple as that though is it? if we used to beat them in 1980 something it has no bearing on the present at all. If you look at the last few years, since we came back to the PL and since Man City got half the wealth of the Arabian peninsula chucked at them, then we've beaten them twice. I doubt any one the last few years has expected us to beat man city "at least once a season" like you claimed.

No, nobody has in the last few years, which is exactly what I said. Why are people so desperate to argue on here when basically, as Saints fans, we agree?

If we persist with a midfield of JWP, Hoj and Romeu we are going down. Choose 2, and put some pace in as well. These three are lumbering defensive carthorses, although that's probably Romeu's job description. So choose 2 of those here and start getting used to it. 4-0 City regardless.

Regardless of the Leicester match and that scoreline I don't think many of us would have

Saints down for a win or even draw tomorrow against City.

I think Ralph has got a free ride on this game and it will be all about pride, performance

and damage limitation.

It's next weeks match that will be interesting Hasenhuttl Vs Silva.

If Saints beat Everton Silva could be gone.

Man City 3 Saints 0

Personally think he has been poor, but i wont sprouting he is bad when he is clearly doing much more than Redders n boufal in the creativity department, and Redders and boufal only make the team for creative reasons where as jwp has a number of dutys to do like baby sitting val.

I assume the majority of jwps creativity stats are based on setpieces.. you really think he’s more likely to open up a defence or produce a piece of game changing magic then boufal?

Anyone know if there are more going tomorrow than tuesday ?

Yep, over a thousand there Tuesday night, it will be around 1,500 today. They all deserve a medal after what's gone on.

If we persist with a midfield of JWP, Hoj and Romeu we are going down. Choose 2, and put some pace in as well. These three are lumbering defensive carthorses, although that's probably Romeu's job description. So choose 2 of those here and start getting used to it. 4-0 City regardless.

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If Norwich can beat them...

Seriously I would lick anybody’s bum hole for 3 points today, even for a draw I’d probably lick a winky tip.

If Norwich can beat them...

 

Seriously I would lick anybody’s bum hole for 3 points today, even for a draw I’d probably lick a winky tip.

Please tell us that somebody has hijacked your account?

Come on Lighthouse own up, have you been abusing your admin powers?

If we persist with a midfield of JWP, Hoj and Romeu we are going down. Choose 2, and put some pace in as well. These three are lumbering defensive carthorses, although that's probably Romeu's job description. So choose 2 of those here and start getting used to it. 4-0 City regardless.

I think you are doing an injustice to Romeu and Hoj. If we persist with the idea that Ward-Prowse is a midfielder or an automatic selection...we are going down. As for the posters citing statistical support for JWP; just watch the games....that will tell you everything - if you have an objective gaze.

If we persist with a midfield of JWP, Hoj and Romeu we are going down. Choose 2, and put some pace in as well. These three are lumbering defensive carthorses, although that's probably Romeu's job description. So choose 2 of those here and start getting used to it. 4-0 City regardless.

I think you are doing an injustice to Romeu and Hoj. If we persist with the idea that Ward-Prowse is a midfielder or an automatic selection...we are going down. As for the posters citing statistical support for JWP; just watch the games....that will tell you everything - if you have an objective gaze.

I think you are doing an injustice to Romeu and Hoj. If we persist with the idea that Ward-Prowse is a midfielder or an automatic selection...we are going down. As for the posters citing statistical support for JWP; just watch the games....that will tell you everything - if you have an objective gaze.

I've had a season ticket for years I've seen plenty of JWP and I don't rate him at all but stats are interesting to me because frequently the stats seem to suggest the fans (including me) can't look past their bias. Lots of people seem to love Hoj but offensively and defensively he is our worst midfielder, according to the stats, this season (and to be fair I wouldn't disagree Hoj's best performance was as a LB against Fulham other than that he has been crap) so we should probably be dropping Hoj. The Only midfielder I rate is Romeu but even I can see his lack of pace causes us problems he needs more dynamic midfielders around him sadly we don't have any in the squad. In short we have one decent but slow DM and three central midfielders that aren't really up to it IMO but the manager can't drop them because he doesn't have any other options unless he plays someone out of position or gives up on midfielders altogether.

Please tell us that somebody has hijacked your account?

 

Come on Lighthouse own up, have you been abusing your admin powers?

I'm so confident neither will happen, I'm safe. Though if by some miracle we do beat City, I reserve the right to retract that comment!

I still believe the best form of defence is attack, and we have a decent attack. They need to ignore what the 6/7 players behind them are doing and press City. Their defence is their weak spot. (Though I'd still swap every last one of them for ours.)

If Norwich can beat them...

 

Seriously I would lick anybody’s bum hole for 3 points today, even for a draw I’d probably lick a winky tip.

Heisenberg is available I believe

I've had a season ticket for years I've seen plenty of JWP and I don't rate him at all but stats are interesting to me because frequently the stats seem to suggest the fans (including me) can't look past their bias. Lots of people seem to love Hoj but offensively and defensively he is our worst midfielder, according to the stats, this season (and to be fair I wouldn't disagree Hoj's best performance was as a LB against Fulham other than that he has been crap) so we should probably be dropping Hoj. The Only midfielder I rate is Romeu but even I can see his lack of pace causes us problems he needs more dynamic midfielders around him sadly we don't have any in the squad. In short we have one decent but slow DM and three central midfielders that aren't really up to it IMO but the manager can't drop them because he doesn't have any other options unless he plays someone out of position or gives up on midfielders altogether.

There's no doubt Hojbjerg has had a poor season so far. I'm basing my assessment on Hoj having previously shown an aptitude and an appetite to be a decent CM or box-to-box midfielder. I've never seen that aptitude or ability from Ward-Prowse....in any position; and I'm losing faith in Ralph's credibility as he continues to select him - although I support your observation we are ludicrously short on midfielders with Lemina and Reed loaned out. What seems obvious to me is we have sacrificed an attacking player like Boufal, Armstrong or Adams to shoehorn WP in, with a resultant weakening of our attack, midfield and defence.

To my eye, Romeu has been consistently good this season, but has suffered from the poor season of Hojbjerg and the "nothing" inclusion of Ward-Prowse.

On the JWP subject, I've seen him miss tackles, not tackle, lose his mark, not pick anybody up, pass it five yards to marked colleague, ignore most forward passes, ignore runners and pass it to a defender, fail to track at all, waves his arms around like Stephen Davis. Too slow, too weak and wins nothing in the air. Nearly always at fault somewhere when we concede. I'm pretty sure he would be the opponents first pick in our team selection.

Until we get rid of him we have no chance of quick breaks and utilising any pace we have up front. He is the real impediment in a pedestrian midfield.

Not confident that we are not going to get another spanking today. If the weather is as bad in Manchester as it is here our poor little petals won’t fancy it one bit.

Today will end somewhere between a 4 and 7 nil defeat, I can't see any other outcome.

Today will end somewhere between a 4 and 7 nil defeat, I can't see any other outcome.

Yep, my thoughts exactly. Hoping for the lower estimate, fearing the upper, or worse.

Not sure I'll be brave enough to sit through the whole of this one. Will see how we fare for 20 minutes or so.

Respect to those who have made the journey...

McCarthy still in goal.

Vestergaard in for Danso.

Ings in for Long.

Hojbjerg LB

Stephens and JWP both playing, that’s all I need to know

Same old same old with that team but then his options are pretty limited.

Going to be the shi££est if sh£t weekends

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The manager is a fcking idiot

Stephens and JWP both playing, that’s all I need to know

Ralph trying to get the sack?

Pathetic team again... Yes we can blame the bloody Manager !!!

Djenepo on the bench at least....

I'm surprised that Danso has been dropped, thought he might have got the nod again today in front of Vestergaard. Other than that pretty much expected that picked team. Great to have Moussa back on the bench today along with Sofiane COYR