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Thread: Saints 2 Watford 1 - Post Match

  1. #151

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    Quote Originally Posted by macca155 View Post
    All game JWP was tackle, retrieve, give move to be available from 1st minute to 96th minute. When he passes back or sideways to retain procession as there is absolute no bugger available to pass to. He is a good player not world class but pretty much the best we have in that position at the moment.

    I share your frustration but Romeu is far worse for slowing the game down and PEH cannot hold the ball long enough to make an impact.

    Stephens is a difficult one. Yes he makes mistakes but I can live with that to have a courageous player prepared to put himself on the line one of the few leaders we have.

    All of the issues are rooted in having 4 attackers on the field. With no midfield the errors you allude to were constantly emphasised.

    Well that's what I think

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    You need at least one if not two holding (if you like negative) midfielders - JWP is maybe half of one, and Ori should be the full one. Drop PEH - not sure why he is in the team, let alone captain. Maybe that's the issue, who is a suitable / deserved alternative captain? Ings?

  2. Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Saint_Tony View Post
    VAR have admitted making a mistake in allowing our equaliser to stand. Bit of an odd thing to do as it's made so many errors, and I think it would have been incredibly harsh to rule it out for that.

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    Not harsh at all. It hit the attacking players hand, and should have been disallowed. That’s not open to debate, it’s a fact. You can debate whether the rule is right, but the rules we played under today, it should have been disallowed.


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  3. #153

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    Quote Originally Posted by kermitsaint View Post
    Prowse did one single thing right. How many times a season does he manage it?
    Playing him in the squad is like playing with 10 men.

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    In his post-match interview, Ralph said, tellingly, that "it is important for us that [Ward-Prowse] is always there for such moments." For free-kicks near the edge of the area, that is. Expect to see him virtually every game.

  4. #154

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    Quote Originally Posted by VectisSaint View Post
    JWP did not make tackle after tackle. He was absolutely woeful today (goal excepted). No idea what you were watching.
    Watching the same as me. JWP put in a good shift.

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  5. #155

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    Quote Originally Posted by Bridge View Post
    JWP is a dog sh!t player. Open your frigging eyes and watch him play if you disagree. He is one of the reasons why we are so bad...It's not a hate thing going on. Anybody with a bit of football nouse will tell that.

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    This is a very determined hate campaign.

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  6. #156

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    Quote Originally Posted by Bridge View Post
    JWP is a dog sh!t player. Open your frigging eyes and watch him play if you disagree. He is one of the reasons why we are so bad...It's not a hate thing going on. Anybody with a bit of football nouse will tell that.

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    by that logic, you should be Saints manager ahead of Adkins, Poch, Koeman, Puel, Pellegrino, Hughes and Ralph (oh and Southgate)

  7. #157

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    Tossers who boo during the game don't turn up on Wednesday
    That is all
    Last edited by ALWAYS_SFC; 01-12-2019 at 08:20 AM.

  8. #158

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    Quote Originally Posted by saintwbu View Post
    For Ward-Prowse to keep stepping up time and time again to take corners and free kicks, despite his own fans booing him and chanting for an alternative player to replace him, shows some pair of ********. He never hides, he never goes missing. He’s not always good, but he’s got a hell of a lot more about him that a lot of players to keep trying and trying. The atmosphere today was absolutely embarrassing, I actually felt like I wanted to leave and it wasn’t because of the players. The reaction Alex McCarthy got for not playing the long ball to Djenepo we all expected, and instead delaying and playing a safe pass instead, was horrendous. If ever there’s a player who has done nothing to deserve stick then McCarthy is one of them.

    I’m so glad we won, but until about 60 minutes I was absolutely appalled by our fans. So pleased for JWP to score the winner and get his chance to ‘sshhh’ those ******s as he celebrated.

    The only time it should be considered even remotely acceptable to boo your own player is a clear lack of effort, and even that is going to be opinion in most cases. You absolutely should not boo your own players just because they’re not as good as you think they should be.
    Totally agree. The atmosphere was embarrassing. It’s why I go to more away games than home games at the moment. Hopefully this win will change that. Doesn’t mean it was a good performance. It wasn’t - first half was worse than Leicester.

    But if you’re gonna be the bloke next to me in the Northam - shouting ‘you’re all s***’ every fifteen seconds for about 75 minutes - then why bother coming?

    Just IMHO of course.

  9. #159

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    Quote Originally Posted by Bridge View Post
    JWP is a dog sh!t player. Open your frigging eyes and watch him play if you disagree. He is one of the reasons why we are so bad...It's not a hate thing going on. Anybody with a bit of football nouse will tell that.

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    Yeah absolutely. People with football nouse like Gareth Southgate, who has him on the fringes of the England squad.

    Carry on.

  10. #160

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    Quote Originally Posted by LaptopSaint View Post
    Yeah absolutely. People with football nouse like Gareth Southgate, who has him on the fringes of the England squad.

    Carry on.
    The hate for JWP here will never stop, its why i hardly visit the site and why i stopped paying to post, saved us last year with some vital goals missed half the season but finished our 2 nd top goal scorer in the league and again he is 2 nd top goal scorer yet is treated like ****.

  11. #161

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    To hold the league is (again) the target. I know Ralph quite well (my son played for him) and admire him enormously. In all plays our passing accuracy deteriorated and other teams profited as a result. He should have demanded new players with international quality. That was his mistake.
    For example Danso (he and my son play together in Austrians U21) is a talent, but for such a difficult situation he is overwhelmed. Ralph cannot play his system and the squad is not compiled for his philosphy.
    Think Saints and Ralph will separate. I hope somebody can do better.

  12. #162

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    First home game in ages for me. Couldn't believe how bad they were, even though expectations were very low. Not one player playing well for 75 mins. No urgency, no skill, nothing.

    But it didn't just feel like not being good enough, I've seen us be decent enough away. All of them looked like they hated playing there, terrified to have the ball, passing backwards, no leadership, no taking responsibility. We need leaders to step up desperately. Yeah we looked good for 7 or 8 mins and got the two goals, could have had a couple of others. But we also panicked in defence again. The difference to Arsenal injury time was just luck, we still gave them the chance.

    Still, we were always going to need to sneak a win via any method. Now it hopefully the time they can relax and play football at home again. But Ralph needs to make changes. He can't rely on Cedric, Stephens, Redmond and at the moment, Hojbjerg. Romeu needs to be in that midfield as he's the only leader we have. Redmond needs a spell out the team, he was just abysmal and has been for a while. Djenepo is raw but needs to keep playing. Boufal is our best footballer by miles and it's frankly ridiculous he never gets a run in the team. McCarthy isn't good enough to take the pressure off a poor defence. Flaps at crosses, makes poor decisions and did similar to injury time last week. A few good saves but at this level that's not enough.

    Obafemi isn't ready, he was awful. Think we'd be better playing Armstrong and leaving it as Djenepo/Ings/Boufal up front. That 3 with time to gel and find form could be decent.

  13. #163

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    Quote Originally Posted by LaptopSaint View Post
    Totally agree. The atmosphere was embarrassing. It’s why I go to more away games than home games at the moment. Hopefully this win will change that. Doesn’t mean it was a good performance. It wasn’t - first half was worse than Leicester.

    But if you’re gonna be the bloke next to me in the Northam - shouting ‘you’re all s***’ every fifteen seconds for about 75 minutes - then why bother coming?

    Just IMHO of course.
    It was, but given the form and the 9-0 I'm not sure it could be different, and plenty still turned up and backed them. It just needs to change now and give them a good atmosphere for Norwich.

  14. #164

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    Quote Originally Posted by LaptopSaint View Post
    Yeah absolutely. People with football nouse like Gareth Southgate, who has him on the fringes of the England squad.

    Carry on.
    Hardly. Where’s he been in the last few squads? In the past year there are quite a few players that have overtaken him, Mason Mount being the latest one. You are stretching the definition of fringes a bit !

    It annoys me that if you criticise JWP some will come on here and start rambling on about hate campaign etc. Utter bollicks. We all see the game differently and I for one thought he was abysmal last night. Yep the free kick was great and won the game but the one he had before that in an ideal position was crap ! Doesn’t mean I hate him, just means I don’t particularly rate him, I’m still after all these years none the wiser as to what his best position is, it certainly isn’t as one of the two central midfielders. Would he be or look better with a good player next to him? Maybe but we aren’t in a position to see that at the moment.

    And all this “people who know about football pick him” stuff is very very selective memory rubbish. The truth is every single manager up to now with the exception I think of Puel has picked him for a good run of games then at some point dropped him back to the bench or out of the squad. It’s a fact, check the record books. Do you honestly believe if the people “that know” thought he was any good he would still be here ?

    I hope he hits a purple patch like he did last season, for his sake but most of all for ours because he’s obviously going to be picked every week and we can’t afford any more bloody under performers than we’ve got in that squad already.

  15. #165

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    Quote Originally Posted by Mosin View Post
    The hate for JWP here will never stop, its why i hardly visit the site and why i stopped paying to post, saved us last year with some vital goals missed half the season but finished our 2 nd top goal scorer in the league and again he is 2 nd top goal scorer yet is treated like ****.
    ...by a few posters on a messageboard who (by their ever-presence on matchday threads) never actually go to a game.

    JWP, from what I hear, is a nice fella and a decent player but has limitations and should have been benched after a number of weak performances. We/he suffer from too many like-minded slow/sidewards players around him. He's a pro, hopefully he doesn't take too much from a bit of mock 'hate' from a few on a messageboard.

  16. #166

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    Quote Originally Posted by John Boy Saint View Post
    JWP could score 20 goals for Saints in a season, but because he grew up in a house of Portsmouth season ticket holders he will forever be considered a steaming pile by a section of people posting on here.
    It’s a good job he is on the pitch as Ings has 7 goals this season, second on the list JWP with 4. There are other players on the pitch that wear Red and White who deserve the maligning finger pointed at them...........but hang on none of them were brought up as a Pompey fan.

  17. #167

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    TBH the win glossed over what was a bizarre starting formation from RH. When it finally dawned on him that we had been totally overrun in the midfield for 60 minutes he finally made some sensible changes. People might say that he got the substitutions “spot on “ but it begs the question, once again, why he got it so wrong in the first place.

  18. Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Shroppie View Post
    This is a very determined hate campaign.

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    Probably worth remembering that not everyone on here is a genuine Saints fan. No surprise that agitators pick on a player from the Portsmouth area.

    People are entitled to a view but the abuse is out of order and unnecessary.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Red View Post
    You need at least one if not two holding (if you like negative) midfielders - JWP is maybe half of one, and Ori should be the full one. Drop PEH - not sure why he is in the team, let alone captain. Maybe that's the issue, who is a suitable / deserved alternative captain? Ings?
    Good post but Ori has really gone off the boil and his wrecking ball routine is too easily bypassed these days.

    Clearly we need to buy some decent midfield players and perm 4 from JWP Armstrong Lemina (I rate him) Slattery, and hopefully a new defensive midfielder. Romeu and PEH on the subs bench as impact players.

    Maybe even Stephen's in midfield but he is at last starting to cement himself into the defence.

    Captain us easy Ings or Stephen's. Players who care and show leadership.



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  20. #170

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    Interesting that the player who ultimately won the game for us, and was considered motm by both sky and the bbc, is the one that fans on here want to (constantly) vilify.

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  21. #171

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    Think this aligns with the optics - JWP/PJH and Redmond pass back more than any other player in our team all currently on 108/107 for the season

    https://www.premierleague.com/stats/.../backward_pass

    Don't think its manager specific as I have checked out the last few years stats.

  22. Default

    Quote Originally Posted by musesaint View Post
    TBH the win glossed over what was a bizarre starting formation from RH. When it finally dawned on him that we had been totally overrun in the midfield for 60 minutes he finally made some sensible changes. People might say that he got the substitutions “spot on “ but it begs the question, once again, why he got it so wrong in the first place.
    How were we totally over run in midfield? We had 64% possession ffs , we had nearly double their passes, way better pass success rate. Watford had little intention of playing through the middle, they sat deep and narrow, then looked to play direct into the channels for Sarr and Deulofeu. They bypassed their midfield most of the time. Will Hughes was in their midfield 3 and made 18 passes in 76 minutes ffs and Doucure made barely 25 successful passes in the whole 90 minutes.

    Also the team selection made sense because it was pretty much the same team that had outplayed Arsenal on their own patch, he had to make one change because Armstrong was injured and Boufal was a doubt because he injured his toe.

    I don't think he got it wrong at all, he had a team that played well last week and so they earned a chance to do it again, they just didn't put the same performances in, if he plays the same starting 11 against Norwich, then you can maybe question him because a few there probably do not deserve to start.

    This whole JWP debate is just messy, some massive over reactions, he's clearly a good player and he showed it tonight, he was far from brilliant but he worked hard, tracked back, tackled, intercepted and tried to be available for passes. He also had a game defining moment, and if Long was not dog ****e at finishing then his great cross to Ings would have helped create another goal. He also produced a great flick in the first half that almost went in as well. A few of his corners were poor, but set pieces do not come of all the time, anyone who has played football or golf or any sport where you repeat the same action, knows that even if you practice lots some hits are going to go wrong and what he tries to do with corners is whip them in with pace, curve and dip, which is a hard skill. This means it can sometimes go a bit low and doesn't clear the first man, but at the same time is very dangerous when it comes off.

    What pleased me today was he did the business in central midfield, he's looked under Ralph more capable of playing there than he probably has in his whole career IMO, I think previously he has struggled to play as centre mid, being a bit of an enigma player with good skills in various areas but not quite being good enough for a clear role in the team, but he has over the last 9-10 months added some more bite and physicality to his game, and a bit more nous playing in the middle.
    Last edited by tajjuk; 01-12-2019 at 09:41 AM.

  23. #173

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    Quote Originally Posted by Convict Colony View Post
    Am I? How?
    After Bridge made his comment this has no longer been the match thread it been the JWP is Marmite thread.

  24. #174

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    Quote Originally Posted by Convict Colony View Post
    Think this aligns with the optics - JWP/PJH and Redmond pass back more than any other player in our team all currently on 108/107 for the season

    https://www.premierleague.com/stats/.../backward_pass

    Don't think its manager specific as I have checked out the last few years stats.
    This is what frustrates me about these 3 players as they should be linking defence and attack but instead are the worst culprits at sideways backwards passing and slowing the game down.

  25. #175

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    Christ it’s hard watching us at home, why is our first movement backwards?
    We get a throw in 30 yards from goal Bertrand didn’t even look forwards and threw it straight back to Stephens under pressure and end up with McCarthy to hoof it to Obafemi smallest striker.
    The first half no-one was moving Obafemi, Redmond,Moussa and Ings were static and not running channels only time we did through Ings we created.
    JWP was better than usual but not helped by our forwards static performance he had nothing to hit.
    Long is atrocious in front of goal but his movement helped us along with Boufal having the creative spark needed.
    Well done Ralph good subs


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  26. #176

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    Quote Originally Posted by macca155 View Post
    How on earth do you come to that conclusion. JWP in the context of a poor performance he was one of our better players. He tackles passes and immediately makes himself available. He does that all game.... never stops.

    He has to often pass back as he has no one in front to pass to.

    I just don't get the hate he gives his all. What more do you want.

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    Agree that JWP was one of our better player despite the odd stray pass, which all the players where suffering from. That what you get when you have lost so many home games, and are playing a must win game. PEH was suffering the most from the pressure and just looks so nervous. Romeu is normally more composed, but as someone else posted he is also often the biggest culprit of slowing down our game, by back and sideway passing, so I do get the preference for PEH. Hope this win will help him get back some confidence.
    I also think Long deserves more credit than he's getting. His high press put the whole team on the front foot. I'm not sure if Adams would have had that impact. And yes he should have scored, but was also very unlucky not to.
    For me the real disappointments where Cedric, who was shocking defensively and poor going forward. Vallery definately more of a threat.
    Redmond was also creating very little, which is even more frustating as he has shown how good he can be. Starting with Boufal and bringing on Redmond later might be a good idea for him to get his form back.

  27. #177

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    Wow, JWP has really divided opinion big time, we'll have to start calling him 'Brexit'
    FWIW all around me during the game were saying that both he and Cedric were having a 'mare' and for sure he had a number of misplaced passes and poor corners !
    He did some things very well (ie. the winning goal) and I don't think that 2 in the middle (along with Hojbjerg) particularly suits his game !
    It was mentioned that the BBC report said he was MoM (surprised me !) but please also note that they said it was Boufal who laid on our first goal, not Djenepo so their reporter could hardly be classed as a reliable expert !
    Anyway, bring on the Canaries.....

  28. #178

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    Quote Originally Posted by eurosaint View Post
    It was mentioned that the BBC report said he was MoM (surprised me !) but please also note that they said it was Boufal who laid on our first goal, not Djenepo so their reporter could hardly be classed as a reliable expert !
    When your game gets a female commentator, obviously commentating in a room somewhere a long way from Southampton, you know you're reaching the basement.

  29. #179

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    Still so happy to have won that, even more so that we won at home. Was determined just to enjoy the win for the evening and not worry about the fact that it papered over some many cracks.

    The Everton game was awful, and this was about the same. For 70 minutes. We were lucky Watford are such a mess and their manager just let us go at them without trying to lay a glove on us, as soon as they played with any kind of urgency we were hanging on by a thread.

    The players are clearly so nervous and on edge at home, and I think the crowd all things considered are pretty good. Considering our dreadful home record and that we’re in December and up until the 83rd minute, had not been in the lead at home all season, the fans do their best to try and not create a negative atmosphere. But the nervousness was clear as day. So many passes going astray and just no idea or identity, it was pretty worrying to be honest how bad it was.

    Second half was better but Watford let us be better by not trying to do anything. As I say, absolutely delighted with the win and I really hope it just gets that monkey off their back at home and frees them up a bit. A win against Norwich and the season turns on its head. I just want us to play well AND win, as I’m not sure we’ve actually done that this season in the 3 we’ve won.

  30. #180

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    I couldn't see the game.

    What shape did we play? 4-2-2-2 or more like 4-3-3?

  31. #181

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    The manager should be held responsible for how the team plays. playing slowly with no obvious ideas is down to the training they receive. Players may falter through fear of losing, making mistakes etcetera, but good coaches should be able to pick players that have the balls to have a go.

    Yesterday we only began trying when Boufal came on which stretched Watford's defense. We only came alive after Djenepo inadvertently handled the ball whilst making the goal for Ings. Overall if we were facing a team that could score we might have had another drubbing.

    We had a team full of poorly performing players. Not just one which in my opinion is debatable with reference to JWP.Stephens mistake cost us the Watford goal though you could also suggest our keeper went to ground to quickly.

    I am not a JWP super fan but he is by no means worthy of the stick he gets.

  32. #182

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    Quote Originally Posted by adriansfc View Post
    First home game in ages for me. Couldn't believe how bad they were, even though expectations were very low. Not one player playing well for 75 mins. No urgency, no skill, nothing.

    But it didn't just feel like not being good enough, I've seen us be decent enough away. All of them looked like they hated playing there, terrified to have the ball, passing backwards, no leadership, no taking responsibility. We need leaders to step up desperately.
    Exactly what I was saying to the guy in the next seat last night. Was there much going on in front of the defence though to give them someone to pass to? Bednarek in particular seemed scared of the ball. I didn't think Cedric played well, but my goodness, he was given some cr0p balls under pressure. JWP had a mixed game; an excellent crunching tackle in front of me when they threatened, a couple of passes to no one but came through that to score the goal and he deserves a lot of credit for that. Just wish he had more pace.

    Hojberg looked a lot better when he was driving at them in the second half and with Bouffal and Djenepo we've a couple of players that can open any defence. Now that Obafemi has got his start and been found wanting I hope Adams gets a chance against Norwich. I'll be there and a mite more optimistic than I was arriving at the ground last night. The relief in Ralph's voice on Solent last night was palpable.

  33. #183

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    I was there last night, and for Leicester. And did not think we could outdo that Leicester performance. But for 65 mins we were worse than that performance. In what looked a good attacking team.. I'm flabbergasted!

  34. #184

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    Quote Originally Posted by Bridge View Post
    JWP is a dog sh!t player. Open your frigging eyes and watch him play if you disagree. He is one of the reasons why we are so bad...It's not a hate thing going on. Anybody with a bit of football nouse will tell that.

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    Of course Ward Prowse has had many poor games and has deserved criticism not least from me but yesterday he played very well and won us the match. He took up good positions in midfield always offering the out-ball to colleagues under pressure and he was using the ball well in possession with many penetrating passes into dangerous central areas of their third.

    Give credit where it is due he was our MotM yesterday. Let's hope it was not a flash in the pan.

  35. #185

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    Quote Originally Posted by SOTONS EAST SIDE View Post
    I was there last night, and for Leicester. And did not think we could outdo that Leicester performance. But for 65 mins we were worse than that performance. In what looked a good attacking team.. I'm flabbergasted!
    I suppose you saw what you wanted to see.

    Best 'though not to write the script before the match and to be a bit more open minded.

  36. #186

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    Quote Originally Posted by John Boy Saint View Post
    Am I? How?
    After Bridge made his comment this has no longer been the match thread it been the JWP is Marmite thread.
    If he scored 20 goals a season he could be from mars - he would be loved by everyone.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Crab Lungs View Post
    How is that sexist?

    Fkkk me this place.
    Agree, this is a football forum ffs not a WI chat room.

  38. #188

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    Quote Originally Posted by macca155 View Post
    Probably worth remembering that not everyone on here is a genuine Saints fan. No surprise that agitators pick on a player from the Portsmouth area.

    People are entitled to a view but the abuse is out of order and unnecessary.

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    That's frequently obvious from the disappointment (or certain posters just vanishing) when we do well. There's such a determination to undermine any good news.

    As a Saints fan of over 50 years I'll still criticise when it's called for. But the days when you could have a sensible conversation about the game on here seem well and truly over.

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  39. #189

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    I see Watford have now sacked Flores. Trying to remember how many times a defeat to Southampton has cost a manager his job.....?

  40. #190

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    Quote Originally Posted by SW5 SAINT View Post
    I see Watford have now sacked Flores. Trying to remember how many times a defeat to Southampton has cost a manager his job.....?
    Well, twice in the last two games. Hattrick Weds?

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    Flores sacked by Watford.

  42. #192

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    Quote Originally Posted by Heisenberg View Post
    Flores sacked by Watford.
    Not good news for us. Can see them going for Big Sam, who with Deeney up top will keep them up, imo.

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    Quote Originally Posted by SKD View Post
    Not good news for us. Can see them going for Big Sam, who with Deeney up top will keep them up, imo.
    Would seem ideal for Big Sam

    If nothing else Watford are a squad of big strong lads

    Would probably suit a more direct style. Flores always struck me as being far too defensive and was surprised Watford went back to him

    Silva had built some very decent foundations that Gracia temporarily continued but the Flores didn't look right and so it's proved

  44. Default

    Quote Originally Posted by SKD View Post
    Not good news for us. Can see them going for Big Sam, who with Deeney up top will keep them up, imo.
    Don't think he's Watford's style, even in this mess.

  45. #195

    Default

    The JWP abuse sickens me. it also reminds me of the abuse Sadio Mane got on here. I don't think we are very expert on this site, and we are meant to be supporters, I thought.

  46. Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Dellman View Post
    The JWP abuse sickens me. it also reminds me of the abuse Sadio Mane got on here. I don't think we are very expert on this site, and we are meant to be supporters, I thought.
    What abuse sickens you? I've seen very little

    More just comments that he did very little effective until his goal

  47. #197

    Join Date
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    Quote Originally Posted by Saint Billy View Post
    Agree, this is a football forum ffs not a WI chat room.
    A very similar remark to yours got an MP sacked for sexism!

  48. #198

    Join Date
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    Quote Originally Posted by DuncanRG View Post
    Don't think he's Watford's style, even in this mess.
    Hughton rumour


    Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

  49. #199

    Join Date
    Oct 2007
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    Anyone slagging JWPs performance yesterday know little about football and a lot about bandwagon-jumping.

  50. Default

    For me the biggest disappointment regarding JWP is the lack of progress. He hasn't really improved much over the last 3 years. He does offer something to the team, many seem to think it's not enough, but in reality you could say that of most of our players. It's rare these days to have a local lad in the starting line up on a regular basis. He has won us games with free kicks which we have to be grateful for. We forget how to play football at SMS it seems, until we are losing and make hopeful subs. TBH we have a very average squad, with a few PL quality players mingled in. Boufal was excellent yesterday, some of his footwork was breathtaking and he is one of the few players who can create chances when the team seems to be floundering, as they were yesterday. Yes Watford weren't as open as Arsenal and seem doomed, but our midfield was static and devoid of ideas. I think Norwich will be a similar game and we will do well to win that based on yesterdays showing.
    Still, 3 scrappy points is most welcome, it may be the platform for our assault on the top 4 ??

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