Aston Villa 1 - 3 Saints - FT - Reactions and Christmas Cheer!

I think things are getting a little better

Excellent result

Danny Ings... goal machine, makes the thread i bumped even more silly but im not allowed to do that apparently, only the special ones are

Couldn’t agree more, utterly infuriating every single game, it’s like they want us to lose.

I think they are just thick,

Good to see us both play well and get a result.

Loved Stephens driving attacking run. If can just work consistently on the lapses of concentration he could be a very good player.

Thought hojberg was generally good.

Only real downsides for me were Cedric and long’s Finishing. Hopefully whatever is wrong with Valery clears up quickly so he can compete with Cedric for that slot.

Watched the first half and thought we were generally very good, although made to look good maybe by a very poor Villa display. Noticeable improvement from the full backs, but PEH maybe trying too hard again though?

 

Missed a bit of the second half (after about 60 mins), but switched back on around 10 mins to go and one thing I noticed a few times was Obafemi (brought on before Adams?) was just letting players run past him and not making any effort to close anyone down. Isnt his main attribute his pace? Did he take a knock I missed? I was wondering why he wasnt trying to close anyone down when the whole rest of the team are trying to... Maybe he's just not the brightest spark...

I watched the whole game twice and I think Obefimi is purely a striker with pace. there are a lot of things he just doesn't get. In those sort of situations, Long has done that twice lately watching the ball in our net seconds later, they have to get into the opponent and harrass them all the way, all over them like a rash until they win the ball or force them to pass it back. I think there is a very poor quality of defensive coaching for all the players at Saints. Top teams get this completely. the closer to their goal the tighter the double teaming and closing down the space.

On a previous thread I criticised the aimless possession amongst the back five. I emphasised that we got our best results with our possession reduced into the forties, Yesterday we achieved 44% possession again a win. It tells me that apart from what my eyes told me, the statistic showed less passing at the back, McCarthy kicking most of the time, plus a quicker transition forward and more quick breaks ending with some form of completion. We need to continue playing that way. Cut out the aimless possession often instgated by the keeper to a defender.

Really good performance yesterday. Nobody was off colour.

 

Stephens & Ward-Prowse had their best games for a long time, Redmond was better than of late. Ings & Long look a decent partnership & the full backs seemed more committed than last week.

 

Yes, they were poor, but we’ve played poor sides before & missed the opportunity to put them to bed. I don’t understand criticism of Jack Grealish on here he worked hard, tried stuff and worried me every time he received the ball. He’d fit in a Chelsea or Spurs no bother.

 

Ings is a class above the rest of the side. If we could get Adams firing, buy a proper centre half and a midfielder who creates stuff, we’d be pretty decent.

 

 

 

 

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This. If only the whole team (or majority of it at least) can maintain a good and consistent performance in all games, we will be fine. Trouble is they often don't, and that has to be down to coaching/manager - clearly they have the ability but only produce it when they are bothered! Sure, we'll still lose games but not as many.

The same old story, sorry. When we win then "the other side was awful".

 

No. We did not allow them to play better, that's all. When we play RH's style well and win, the other side will always look awful!

Nah, Villa were awful. I don't think Sheffield United were awful, or even Brighton when they were down to ten.

Nah, Villa were awful. I don't think Sheffield United were awful, or even Brighton when they were down to ten.

Villa were not awful, not in the way Norwich or Watford were. They weren't very good, they have very poor central defence and lack anything up front, but their general play was quite decent. To some extent we made them look poor although I don't actually think we played that well, just that we were unusually ruthless. We also had less players off their game yesterday, only Hojbjerg again was poor (though better than last week).

McGinn out for three months for them.

Huge loss.

Anyone know what happened in the tunnel apparently an incident with long and Grealish?. Also thoughts on Targett. Great win.

The same old story, sorry. When we win then "the other side was awful".

 

No. We did not allow them to play better, that's all. When we play RH's style well and win, the other side will always look awful!

but villa were awful. Wesley is dire. Nearly as bad as Carrillo...

Good to see us both play well and get a result.

Loved Stephens driving attacking run. If can just work consistently on the lapses of concentration he could be a very good player.

Thought hojberg was generally good.

 

Only real downsides for me were Cedric and long’s Finishing. Hopefully whatever is wrong with Valery clears up quickly so he can compete with Cedric for that slot.

Cedric is always "the downside" for you. You really are a tedious bigot. Cedric played really well yesterday and it must stick in your Crawl to swallow that fact.

but villa were awful. Wesley is dire. Nearly as bad as Carrillo...

"Awful" as in we only beat poor teams?

Surprised no one has mentioned PEH ducking away from the Grealish shot on goal - ok, he might not have saved it, but to duck away from a direct shot on goal is hardly captain marvel material - all that horlicks about total commitment to the club etc. etc. Then misses a sitter at end, and barracks Ings - 10 times the player he will ever be.

Is it maybe time to change captains - Ings?

Surprised no one has mentioned PEH ducking away from the Grealish shot on goal

I posted about this in the match thread. Seems to happen quite a lot (us not closing down shots on the edge of the box when there's plenty of time to do so, and then our player turning their back on the ensuing shot.)

I posted about this in the match thread. Seems to happen quite a lot (us not closing down shots on the edge of the box when there's plenty of time to do so, and then our player turning their back on the ensuing shot.)

There were a lot of things PEH messed up in the game, but to be fair if he had got in the waynofnGrealish's shot it would probably have taken his head off, still I suppose that would have made him more headless chicken like.

"Awful" as in we only beat poor teams?

Villa were absolutely dire. Surely that can’t be for debate. Our defence won’t have an easier ride this season than what the opposition forwards offered.

Like the song title says : I wasn't expecting THAT!

I had 3-nil to Villa. But I don't watch them, so didn't know how poor they were right now.

Watford getting 3 pts today, but it helps we have added 3 to our total. Can we get anything at Chelsea? Let's see.

I posted about this in the match thread. Seems to happen quite a lot (us not closing down shots on the edge of the box when there's plenty of time to do so, and then our player turning their back on the ensuing shot.)

Certainly does ..

but villa were awful. Wesley is dire. Nearly as bad as Carrillo...

Maybe, but I am sure, would we take one or three points from Chelsea this week, somebody will post that Chelsea was "awful" ...

Surprised no one has mentioned PEH ducking away from the Grealish shot on goal - ok, he might not have saved it, but to duck away from a direct shot on goal is hardly captain marvel material - all that horlicks about total commitment to the club etc. etc. Then misses a sitter at end, and barracks Ings - 10 times the player he will ever be.

 

Is it maybe time to change captains - Ings?

On a previous thread I criticised the aimless possession amongst the back five. I emphasised that we got our best results with our possession reduced into the forties, Yesterday we achieved 44% possession again a win. It tells me that apart from what my eyes told me, the statistic showed less passing at the back, McCarthy kicking most of the time, plus a quicker transition forward and more quick breaks ending with some form of completion. We need to continue playing that way. Cut out the aimless possession often instigated by the keeper to a defender.

We are set up as a counterattacking team. That's the way Ralph plays, so he doesn't want his teams to retain possession for the sake of it and prefers a quick break. This is more achievable away from home, where the home team generally have to attack to satisfy their fans, and we can hit them on the counter. In contrast, our home games see teams sit back and do the same to us - West Ham being a great example - while we struggle to do anything with the extra possession that we have and the lack of space to counterattack into while the opposition sits deep. I don't think this will change much until we can buy a midfielder who can break the lines and carry the ball through an opposition midfield and defence.

We are set up as a counterattacking team. That's the way Ralph plays, so he doesn't want his teams to retain possession for the sake of it and prefers a quick break. This is more achievable away from home, where the home team generally have to attack to satisfy their fans, and we can hit them on the counter. In contrast, our home games see teams sit back and do the same to us - West Ham being a great example - while we struggle to do anything with the extra possession that we have and the lack of space to counterattack into while the opposition sits deep. I don't think this will change much until we can buy a midfielder who can break the lines and carry the ball through an opposition midfield and defence.

Yeah, good analysis!

I noticed that yesterday, he obviously has to protect his film star looks but... I know it bloody hurts but that is the difference between a real winner and a loser putting yourself in harms way

He started to go towards Grealish and then stopped well short and turned side on. It’s easy to keep your head out of the way of a shot if you’re looking straight at it but he did his best to avoid it altogether. He should have run headlong towards Grealish and at the same time letting him know that he was coming. At the very least it gives the attacker something else to think about and that might be the difference between flying into the top corner or going wide of the post.

As has been mentioned above, this ‘turning away’ happens a lot with our players.

How many times do we see this happen? For christs sake grow a pair PEH you're supposed to set an example!

We are set up as a counterattacking team. That's the way Ralph plays, so he doesn't want his teams to retain possession for the sake of it and prefers a quick break. This is more achievable away from home, where the home team generally have to attack to satisfy their fans, and we can hit them on the counter. In contrast, our home games see teams sit back and do the same to us - West Ham being a great example - while we struggle to do anything with the extra possession that we have and the lack of space to counterattack into while the opposition sits deep. I don't think this will change much until we can buy a midfielder who can break the lines and carry the ball through an opposition midfield and defence.

I'm afraid the slow possession completely neutralises us. It's all very well to think we can't do anything about it but we can. With the same team as Saturday against a team setting out to counter attack and sitting deep, keep a solid defence, miss out the midfield and stick the ball quickly up front wide of the central defenders for our forwards to pressure. If we hold in midfield and don't over commit the back four we can stifle their forwards and bombard the box and create defensive errors. It won't be pretty but it will be pretty difficult to defend against.

Falling into the over committing trap time after time is idiocy. Don't play defensive teams at their own game. If teams feel that vulnerable and want to defend and stand back against slow two thirds possession passing exposing our centre backs by over committing numbers give them something entirely different to cope with.

There were a lot of things PEH messed up in the game, but to be fair if he had got in the waynofnGrealish's shot it would probably have taken his head off, still I suppose that would have made him more headless chicken like.

The Grealish goal wasn't that great, i could score those given that time and space. I couldn't believe at the time that no one was marking their only threat. But anyway, was a good day out

The Grealish goal wasn't that great, i could score those given that time and space. I couldn't believe at the time that no one was marking their only threat. But anyway, was a good day out

Of course Dave you are right, the pundits have always wanted Grealish to succeed for whatever reasons even though by and large his career has been even less impressive than that of our own golden boy JWP.

Ergo, it follows that if Grealish even kicks the ball it is a "silky touch" and if he actually scores a fairly straightforward goal as he did on Saturday then it is "a wonder goal" and goal of the century.

What mystifies me is that 'cherished golden locks' has spent some of his career in the Championship, never made the England team and most games looks our of his depth. I just don't get the hype?

I'm afraid the slow possession completely neutralises us. It's all very well to think we can't do anything about it but we can. With the same team as Saturday against a team setting out to counter attack and sitting deep, keep a solid defence, miss out the midfield and stick the ball quickly up front wide of the central defenders for our forwards to pressure. If we hold in midfield and don't over commit the back four we can stifle their forwards and bombard the box and create defensive errors. It won't be pretty but it will be pretty difficult to defend against.

 

Falling into the over committing trap time after time is idiocy. Don't play defensive teams at their own game. If teams feel that vulnerable and want to defend and stand back against slow two thirds possession passing exposing our centre backs by over committing numbers give them something entirely different to cope with.

In theory that works, but if we are at home against a team defending deep i.e. West Ham, the space to play the ball up front wide of the central defenders is very small. Imagine how difficult it would be to play the ball Redmond played into Long for our first goal on Saturday if the opposition are parking the bus. Our second goal on Saturday came from Bertrand running into space behind their full back and winning the corner that Stephens scored from. If the oppo are defending on their 18 yard line there is no space for Bertie to make that run. Its fundamentally more effective, with the players we currently have, to play Ralph's way away from home. Just means we have to find an alternative way to be effective at home.

In theory that works, but if we are at home against a team defending deep i.e. West Ham, the space to play the ball up front wide of the central defenders is very small. Imagine how difficult it would be to play the ball Redmond played into Long for our first goal on Saturday if the opposition are parking the bus. Our second goal on Saturday came from Bertrand running into space behind their full back and winning the corner that Stephens scored from. If the oppo are defending on their 18 yard line there is no space for Bertie to make that run. Its fundamentally more effective, with the players we currently have, to play Ralph's way away from home. Just means we have to find an alternative way to be effective at home.

Playing the way I proposed I wouldn't see the full backs as attacking options. If they get the ball they just stick it down the line and just hold their defensive shape. Let them park the bus but pile the ball in on them. Cut out the possession passing altogether and just put awkward balls in at the defenders and press the life out of them as they break. Eventually we will make chances. Play from the start as teams play the last five minutes trying to get an equaliser by putting the ball into the last third pressuring the defenders rather than trying to play through them. In other words force throwins, draw fouls, play for the free kicks and corners that often produce chances.

Sounds beautiful.

Playing the way I proposed I wouldn't see the full backs as attacking options. If they get the ball they just stick it down the line and just hold their defensive shape. Let them park the bus but pile the ball in on them. Cut out the possession passing altogether and just put awkward balls in at the defenders and press the life out of them as they break. Eventually we will make chances. Play from the start as teams play the last five minutes trying to get an equaliser by putting the ball into the last third pressuring the defenders rather than trying to play through them. In other words force throwins, draw fouls, play for the free kicks and corners that often produce chances.

Did you do you coaching badge with Dave Bassett pal?

No, but I'm not advocating a preference for a system. What I am doing is advocating a way to counter teams coming to defend. We are patently at the moment suffering from a team that is not good enough to play through ultra defensive teams and also be organised and quick enough at the back and midfield to cut off the break that loses us games. We leave ourselves wide open. We have lost most of our games at home because we haven't taken our chances but conceded too many on the break. All I want to see is us out of the mess we are in at the bottom of the league table. To do that we have to get better results at home. What I'm advocating is a counter to massed defenses. Twenty passes between defenders is a sight more boring. We get our best results with the least possession. the more passes we add up the more likely we are to lose.

Sounds beautiful.

Never meant to be. Play the beautiful football against the teams that play open football. Losing beautifully and stupidly isn't what the home supporters want to see either. Winning ugly will send them home happy that we are coping at last.