Blasphemy and Duck Rape

It’s up to you what you think of me, I’m not fussed.

 

But 28% of the bible is dedicated to prophecy, so predicting things...

Matthew Le God might be the most annoying poster in the history of the forum with his dog with a bone like posting style and weird automaton personality, but you really don't help matters raging bull when you post things like the above, you just sound a bit unhinged. I don't think even most Christians would try to say that random passages from the bible are literally predicting events from the last century or two.[/

 

N/t

 

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What’s the point in replying to you when you weren’t even gracious enough to admit to the pony you were spouting off about over Jesus condoning/encouraging murder is simply the implementation of the law at the time?

Do you not think Jesus teaches a deeper morality than “obey the law”? That can be used to justify any abuse of power.

I assume you are American?

Ezekiel 20-41:42

 

41. With a pleasing savor I shall accept you when I take you out of the nations, and I shall gather you from the lands in which you were scattered, and I shall be hallowed through you before the eyes of the nations.

42. And you will know that I am the Lord when I bring you to the land of Israel, to the land that I lifted My hand to give to your forefathers.

 

And as if by magic, Israel became a nation again in 1948

 

And yes, I’m aware it’s from last century before you get all pedantic on me. But it’s a highly significant 1.

 

As for this century, it was predicted that Israel will flourish. They’re now the 8th richest country in the world and 5th largest seller of military technology. The fig tree is blooming, just as Jesus predicted.

 

This is the parable of the fig tree found in Matthew

Turns out He created aliens too!

https://www.dailystar.co.uk/news/latest-news/pop-legend-andy-bell-says-21187813

So you’re saying that’s not right? Seriously? That Israel wasn’t a nation before 1948 but was after 1948?

It was formed on the 14th may 1948.

Are you also saying Israel isn’t now the 8th richest country in the world?

But if you don’t understand that then you’d better step out of the room because simple facts are too much for you

So you’re saying that’s not right? Seriously? That Israel wasn’t a nation before 1948 but was after 1948?

 

It was formed on the 14th may 1948.

 

Are you also saying Israel isn’t now the 8th richest country in the world?

 

But if you don’t understand that then you’d better step out of the room because simple facts are too much for you

There is no connection between the prophesies of Ezekiel and the post WW2 history of the Middle East.

Perhaps you could answer this, who are the true 'People of God', Christians who follow the teachings of His son, or Jews, who rejected and condemned him ?

Ezekiel 20-41:42

 

41. With a pleasing savor I shall accept you when I take you out of the nations, and I shall gather you from the lands in which you were scattered, and I shall be hallowed through you before the eyes of the nations.

42. And you will know that I am the Lord when I bring you to the land of Israel, to the land that I lifted My hand to give to your forefathers.

 

And as if by magic, Israel became a nation again in 1948

 

And yes, I’m aware it’s from last century before you get all pedantic on me. But it’s a highly significant 1.

 

As for this century, it was predicted that Israel will flourish. They’re now the 8th richest country in the world and 5th largest seller of military technology. The fig tree is blooming, just as Jesus predicted.

 

This is the parable of the fig tree found in Matthew

This is deeply flawed for a number of reasons.

Lets start shall we...

1) Do you know what a 'self fulfilling prophecy' means? Because if someone is aware of an old prophecy and then people are actively working towards fulfilling it... it isn't in the slightest remarkable.

2) The Bible passage you quote is so vague and doesn't even have dates. Why does it not mention 1948? That would at least at least make it a little more impressive, but even if it did have dates that happened accurately I'd then refer you to my first point

3) You say 'as if by magic Israel became a nation'. The creation of Israel was due to people working to make it happen. How is that magic or divine intervention? Jews wanted it to happen... so they worked to make it happen

So that is one prophecy in the Bible that we can now establish as vague self fulfilling nonsense. Do you have any others?

There is no connection between the prophesies of Ezekiel and the post WW2 history of the Middle East.

 

Perhaps you could answer this, who are the true 'People of God', Christians who follow the teachings of His son, or Jews, who rejected and condemned him ?

I know that the question was directed at raging bull, but as he says, the prophecies can be linked to post ww2 events. While it's clear that the scriptures are open to interpretation, it's possible to interpret that they predicted the creation and growth of Israel. I don't have an opinion on how that's possible but it was a bloody bold prediction that's come true.

There's much in there about the future of the world, the middle east and Jerusalem role in it (the future capital of the world according to the book of Zechariah - at least according to my Google search, I don't pretend to know any of this stuff!). There is no denying the power of Israel and the importance of Jerusalem (just this year recognised by USA as the capital of Israel...) and some of the coincidences, if that's what they are, in the bible ain't a million miles from reality.

I know that the question was directed at raging bull, but as he says, the prophecies can be linked to post ww2 events. While it's clear that the scriptures are open to interpretation, it's possible to interpret that they predicted the creation and growth of Israel. I don't have an opinion on how that's possible but it was a bloody bold prediction that's come true.

 

There's much in there about the future of the world, the middle east and Jerusalem role in it (the future capital of the world according to the book of Zechariah - at least according to my Google search, I don't pretend to know any of this stuff!). There is no denying the power of Israel and the importance of Jerusalem (just this year recognised by USA as the capital of Israel...) and some of the coincidences, if that's what they are, in the bible ain't a million miles from reality.

No it wasn't. See post #373

It matters because brainwashed and indoctrinated people allow thus bronze age nonsense to influence their actions and thus impacts on other people

Are you married?

Where did you have your service ? We are looking for a non religious venue.

Were you christened?

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Are you married?

Engaged

Where did you have your service ? We are looking for a non religious venue.

N/A

Were you christened?

No

No it wasn't. See post #373

I've read that. Sure, the Bible does not mention years but it refers to the creation and growth of Israel. I'm as cynical as you, but there is no denying what it says has happened.

It could be coincidence, but you know what Einstein said about them...

I've read that. Sure, the Bible does not mention years but it refers to the creation and growth of Israel. I'm as cynical as you, but there is no denying what it says has happened.

 

It could be coincidence, but you know what Einstein said about them...

Did you read the bit about self fulfilling prophecies? Jews knew this passage was in the Bible and actively worked towards fulfilling it. How is that remarkable prediction of the future? It is people working towards trying to meet a goal in an old book.

If I order a meal at a restaurant and the waiter fulfils that order by bringing that meal to the table... is that a prophecy I've made about a meal coming to my table coming true?

This is deeply flawed for a number of reasons.

 

Lets start shall we...

 

1) Do you know what a 'self fulfilling prophecy' means? Because if someone is aware of an old prophecy and then people are actively working towards fulfilling it... it isn't in the slightest remarkable.

2) The Bible passage you quote is so vague and doesn't even have dates. Why does it not mention 1948? That would at least at least make it a little more impressive, but even if it did have dates that happened accurately I'd then refer you to my first point

3) You say 'as if by magic Israel became a nation'. The creation of Israel was due to people working to make it happen. How is that magic or divine intervention? Jews wanted it to happen... so they worked to make it happen

 

So that is one prophecy in the Bible that we can now establish as vague self fulfilling nonsense. Do you have any others?[/quote

 

A Self fulfilling prophecy? So you're seriously saying they created a country, planted oil in it and Russia, Iran and Turkey have sent soilders to the Northern border of this country all because they are aware of a prophecy in Ezekiel? That's mental even by your standards.

Did you read the bit about self fulfilling prophecies? Jews knew this passage was in the Bible and actively worked towards fulfilling it. How is that remarkable prediction of the future? It is people working towards trying to meet a goal in an old book.

 

If I order a meal at a restaurant and the waiter fulfils that order by bringing that meal to the table... is that a prophecy I've made about a meal coming to my table coming true?

As I say, interpretation is key. So let me get this straight. World forces beyond ww2 worked together to create the state of Israel, then worked together to make it a powerful state, then worked together for the recognition of Jerusalem as its capital, just because they wanted the bible story to be proved true? For a while you were looking relatively sane on this thread.

MLG there is absolutely no point in debating with you, but just so you’re absolutely clear

1. I understand the bible and the theology behind it all very well

2. You couldn’t care less, and that’s fine

Anyway, I’m about to miss a deadline if I’m not careful

As I say, interpretation is key. So let me get this straight. World forces beyond ww2 worked together to create the state of Israel, then worked together to make it a powerful state, then worked together for the recognition of Jerusalem as its capital, just because they wanted the bible story to be proved true? For a while you were looking relatively sane on this thread.

Egg, people will see this as nuts, but it isn’t. It’s simply mans self righteousness pride that puts himself on top of every pile.

It’s funny though, so many people on their death beds give their hearts to God. You’ve gotta ask yourself why that is.

It’s because at the end of it all when all else is failing, we still believe in God.

When I get a chance I’ll post some really good videos on current prophecies. I’m sure you’ll enjoy watching it

MLG there is absolutely no point in debating with you, but just so you’re absolutely clear

 

1. I understand the bible and the theology behind it all very well

 

2. You couldn’t care less, and that’s fine

 

Anyway, I’m about to miss a deadline if I’m not careful

Did you read the bit about self fulfilling prophecies? Jews knew this passage was in the Bible and actively worked towards fulfilling it. How is that remarkable prediction of the future? It is people working towards trying to meet a goal in an old book.

 

If I order a meal at a restaurant and the waiter fulfils that order by bringing that meal to the table... is that a prophecy I've made about a meal coming to my table coming true?

The Russians also have the bible but that’s not stopping them from fulfilling the prophecy is it...

Hmm I'm not sure about that. I know quite a few Christians and they wouldn't agree withuch of what you've written.

That’s because only 2% of churches even discuss prophecy or end times because it freaks people out and they’re worried about numbers.

If the Christians you know would disagree with things like prophecy then I’d suggest they’re ignoring 28% of the bible.

 

It’s funny though, so many people on their death beds give their hearts to God. You’ve gotta ask yourself why that is.

 

Hedging their bets.

The Russians also have the bible but that’s not stopping them from fulfilling the prophecy is it...

Iran is a muslim country, they seem to be doing their bit to deliberately fulfil a bible prophecy.

"Religion is the sigh of the oppressed creature, the heart of a heartless world, just as it is the spirit of a spiritless situation. It is the opium of the people."

Karl Marx - Critique of Hegel's Philosophy of Right

I am with MLG on this. Surely the state of Israel was created in accordance with where the Bible said it should be. Of course they were working towards that. If not, why did it not end up in some random part of the planet that no one else gave a damn about?

I am not an expert in Jewish matters but I don’t recall them ever having a plan B?

I am with MLG on this. Surely the state of Israel was created in accordance with where the Bible said it should be. Of course they were working towards that. If not, why did it not end up in some random part of the planet that no one else gave a damn about?

I am not an expert in Jewish matters but I don’t recall them ever having a plan B?

If you had been tasked in the early 20th century with deciding where a potential Jewish state should be created, where would you choose ? This was an obvious and easy choice, as set out in the Balfour Declaration in 1917;

"His Majesty's government view with favour the establishment in Palestine of a national home for the Jewish people, and will use their best endeavours to facilitate the achievement of this object, it being clearly understood that nothing shall be done which may prejudice the civil and religious rights of existing non-Jewish communities in Palestine, or the rights and political status enjoyed by Jews in any other country. "

( Not sure if this can be extrapolated from any part of Ezekiel's prophesies ).

As I say, interpretation is key. So let me get this straight. World forces beyond ww2 worked together to create the state of Israel, then worked together to make it a powerful state, then worked together for the recognition of Jerusalem as its capital, just because they wanted the bible story to be proved true? For a while you were looking relatively sane on this thread.

So you don't think people made Israel become a nation? At what point in the creation of the nation was God involved? Jews wanted a nation... they worked to create it. No God required.

The Russians also have the bible but that’s not stopping them from fulfilling the prophecy is it...

Is Vladimir Putin named in the Bible? If it can see the future why does it not use names and dates?

MLG there is absolutely no point in debating with you, but just so you’re absolutely clear

 

1. I understand the bible and the theology behind it all very well

 

2. You couldn’t care less, and that’s fine

 

Anyway, I’m about to miss a deadline if I’m not careful

I am open to changing my mind if you provide good evidence. I've rebutted every single point you've made in this thread. You have an extremely low bar for the level of evidence you are willing to accept in order to beleive something. You have moved onto vague self fulfilling prophecies now... which is just nonsense.

It’s funny though, so many people on their death beds give their hearts to God. You’ve gotta ask yourself why that is.

Why do you think it is?

Wishing something to be true... doesn't make it true. When you are about to die some people may want more... does not mean it is possible.

A Self fulfilling prophecy? So you're seriously saying they created a country, planted oil in it and Russia, Iran and Turkey have sent soilders to the Northern border of this country all because they are aware of a prophecy in Ezekiel? That's mental even by your standards.

1) Did they work towards creating a country?

Yes, I really don't see how anyone can dispute that!

2) 'planted oil in it'

Where in the Bible does it mention oil being in Israel???

Plus oil is made of creatures that are millions of years old. The Bible states the world is 6,000 years old.

3) 'Russia, Iran and Turkey have sent soilders to the Northern border of this country'

Where in the Bible does the Bible mention that those countries would do that?

Egg, people will see this as nuts, but it isn’t. It’s simply mans self righteousness pride that puts himself on top of every pile.

 

It’s funny though, so many people on their death beds give their hearts to God. You’ve gotta ask yourself why that is.

 

It’s because at the end of it all when all else is failing, we still believe in God.

 

When I get a chance I’ll post some really good videos on current prophecies. I’m sure you’ll enjoy watching it

You're fusing 2 different subjects. God, and the Bible. I have a belief in the former, but find the latter hard to believe in many respects - the concept of a virgin birth being one - but whether the realised events flowing from the prophecies were a) predictions coming true or b) people working backwards to fulfil a prophecy or c) complete coincidence is a matter of opinion. I can see how people could see a), b) and c) all as being far fetched.

Whilst I don't have a firm view on how it is that certain prophecies have come true, the great intellectual Einstein once said "Coincidence is God's way of remaining anonymous", or to put it another way, coincidences are gods calling cards. Whatever anyone thinks, the bloke who formed the theory of relativity was no mug.

You're fusing 2 different subjects. God, and the Bible. I have a belief in the former, but find the latter hard to believe in many respects - the concept of a virgin birth being one - but whether the realised events flowing from the prophecies were a) predictions coming true or b) people working backwards to fulfil a prophecy or c) complete coincidence is a matter of opinion. I can see how people could see a), b) and c) all as being far fetched.

Why do you believe in God?

Whilst I don't have a firm view on how it is that certain prophecies have come true, the great intellectual Einstein once said "Coincidence is God's way of remaining anonymous", or to put it another way, coincidences are gods calling cards. Whatever anyone thinks, the bloke who formed the theory of relativity was no mug.

They are not coincidences! The prophecies in the Bible are so vague they are worthless as predictions. If they are prophecies from God why not name names, name dates. Instead they are extremely vague, largely without time limits and people try to shoe horn them to match events 2,000 years later.

Why do you believe in God?

 

 

 

They are not coincidences! The prophecies in the Bible are so vague they are worthless as predictions. If they are prophecies from God why not name names, name dates. Instead they are extremely vague, largely without time limits and people try to shoe horn them to match events 2,000 years later.

Mate, I'm not debating the former with you, and certainly so need to justify myself to you. You're an agnostic, I'm not, so let's leave it there.

Re the latter, it's been done to death on this thread. Again, you have a view and there are other views. Personally, I can't see any options other than the 3 that I have outlined. People are entitled to believe in any of them, neither of them, or something else. I respect people's individual opinions on such a thorny and individual subject.

If you had been tasked in the early 20th century with deciding where a potential Jewish state should be created, where would you choose ? This was an obvious and easy choice, as set out in the Balfour Declaration in 1917;

"His Majesty's government view with favour the establishment in Palestine of a national home for the Jewish people, and will use their best endeavours to facilitate the achievement of this object, it being clearly understood that nothing shall be done which may prejudice the civil and religious rights of existing non-Jewish communities in Palestine, or the rights and political status enjoyed by Jews in any other country. "

 

( Not sure if this can be extrapolated from any part of Ezekiel's prophesies ).

I think I would have chosen an area where there was no indigenous population.

Mate, I'm not debating the former with you, and certainly so need to justify myself to you. You're an agnostic, I'm not, so let's leave it there.

I'm an atheist. An atheist is someone who doesn't think the claims of theism have met their burden of proof.

There are only two options...

1) atheism - you don't believe the burden of proof has been met

2) theism - you do believe the burden of proof has been met

There isn't a middle ground, you either believe or you don't believe. If you aren't sure then you don't currently believe and so are an atheist.

Re the latter, it's been done to death on this thread. Again, you have a view and there are other views. Personally, I can't see any options other than the 3 that I have outlined. People are entitled to believe in any of them, neither of them, or something else. I respect people's individual opinions on such a thorny and individual subject.

To dispute people created Israel is bizarre. The only way a country can be formed is by people, it is a social construct.

I think I would have chosen an area where there was no indigenous population.

Such as...?

I'm an atheist. An atheist is someone who doesn't think the claims of theism have met their burden of proof.

 

There are only two options...

 

1) atheism - you don't believe the burden of proof has been met

2) theism - you do believe the burden of proof has been met

 

There isn't a middle ground, you either believe or you don't believe. If you aren't sure then you don't currently believe and so are an atheist.

 

 

 

To dispute people created Israel is bizarre. The only way a country can be formed is by people, it is a social construct.

I'm not here to tell you what you are, no more than you can expect people to agree with what believe / don't, but ^^^^ up there somewhere you said that you needed evidence to believe thus by my understanding that's the definition of an agnostic. The interpretation of atheism is a whole new subject, but if you want to be one of them instead, knock yourself out.

Of course man created man made things!! Nobody is claiming otherwise. The point you make is that man created a whole nation (Israel) and made it a mega power cos man wanted its creation to tie in with the Bible prophecies. As I say, all options seem far fetched but I can't believe world powers sat down after ww2 and said "about this Jewish state, let's have a look at the bible and do what it said in there". Is that really what you're saying?

That’s because only 2% of churches even discuss prophecy or end times because it freaks people out and they’re worried about numbers.

 

If the Christians you know would disagree with things like prophecy then I’d suggest they’re ignoring 28% of the bible.

I'm not here to tell you what you are, no more than you can expect people to agree with what believe / don't, but ^^^^ up there somewhere you said that you needed evidence to believe thus by my understanding that's the definition of an agnostic. The interpretation of atheism is a whole new subject, but if you want to be one of them instead, knock yourself out.

But you did tell me... you said 'You're an agnostic'

Which isn't the case.

Of course man created man made things!! Nobody is claiming otherwise. The point you make is that man created a whole nation (Israel) and made it a mega power cos man wanted its creation to tie in with the Bible prophecies. As I say, all options seem far fetched but I can't believe world powers sat down after ww2 and said "about this Jewish state, let's have a look at the bible and do what it said in there". Is that really what you're saying?

Why is it 'far fetched'? At what part of the process of the creation of the nation did God intervene?

People creating countries is not far fetched, we only ever had examples of people creating countries. No examples with good evidence exists of a God creating a country. To think a God intervened to create a country is far fetched, given the lack of evidence. In any case you'd need to start with good evidence for the existence of the God itself... which is very much lacking.

I think I would have chosen an area where there was no indigenous population.

Where might that have been ? Antarctica is the only area of land without any permanent residents. Anywhere other than Palestine would have been unacceptable, as the entire Jewish faith is based around Jerusalem. As for an 'indigenous population', there has been a Jewish presence in that area ever since since Judaism came into existence.

That’s because only 2% of churches even discuss prophecy or end times because it freaks people out and they’re worried about numbers.

 

If the Christians you know would disagree with things like prophecy then I’d suggest they’re ignoring 28% of the bible.

Still no comment from you on...

1) self fulfilling prophecies

2) vagueness of prophecies without names and dates

Egg, people will see this as nuts, but it isn’t. It’s simply mans self righteousness pride that puts himself on top of every pile.

 

It’s funny though, so many people on their death beds give their hearts to God. You’ve gotta ask yourself why that is.

 

It’s because at the end of it all when all else is failing, we still believe in God.

 

When I get a chance I’ll post some really good videos on current prophecies. I’m sure you’ll enjoy watching it

Perhaps they are hedging their bets? You have nothing to lose if you repent on your death bed. In this country I get the impression that fewer and fewer people believe in god. Churches are empty and are closing. People prefer to shop or play sport on Sunday than observe the day of rest. More people have humanist funerals. Religion served mankind for better or worse for centuries, but the more we embrace technology the less age old superstitions still hold sway. If there was one true God and one true religion don’t you think we would have sussed it out by a fifth of the way through the 21st century? We are no nearer a religious consensus than we were 2000 years ago. Mankind evolved believing in things beyond our comprehension. Thunder. Lightening. The change of the seasons etc. We know what causes them now so we no longer pray to the Gods whom we thought were responsible. Yet there is still a belief that there is a greater force at work that decides our fate. It makes no sense. A coincidence is a coincidence. If something possibly can happen then it probably will. This would be a much better world if we stopped worrying about some greater being beyond the clouds and just put more effort into getting along with each other. Religion is supposed to bring people together yet it divides us. It is supposed to bring out the best in us but often brings out the worst. We have little time on this planet. Surely it is better to focus on the here and now and not some hypothetical eternity that may or may not await us beyond the clouds?

MLG's militant atheism makes me more religious and then raging bull's insane religious answers make me more atheist. I'm in some quantum state between the two.

MLG's militant atheism makes me more religious and then raging bull's insane religious answers make me more atheist. I'm in some quantum state between the two.

Schrodinger's Hypochondriac.

But you did tell me... you said 'You're an agnostic'

 

Which isn't the case.

 

 

 

Why is it 'far fetched'? At what part of the process of the creation of the nation did God intervene?

 

People creating countries is not far fetched, we only ever had examples of people creating countries. No examples with good evidence exists of a God creating a country. To think a God intervened to create a country is far fetched, given the lack of evidence. In any case you'd need to start with good evidence for the existence of the God itself... which is very much lacking.

Mate, we're never going to agree on this, but I repeat that I consider it far fetched that when creating the state of Israel that man whipped out the bible and worked backwards to what was written; that man then went out of its way to create the mess that is the middle east; and planted various foreign forces on its northern border just to fulfil a prophecy. If you want to believe that, cool, but I don't.

Re atheism/agnostic. There's a debate about whether needing to be convinced about God by evidence makes one agnostic or atheist. There is also a school of thought that belief in a God but not a defined religion or holy scripture makes one an atheist. You can be whatever you want, makes no odds to me.

On the lattervpoint, other people can be what they want and believe what they want. Live and let live pal.

What I'd like to know is how MLG gets more than 3 posts a day as Registered User?

Am I well behind the times or is it divine intervention?

What I'd like to know is how MLG gets more than 3 posts a day as Registered User?

Am I well behind the times or is it divine intervention?

If ever there was proof of God...or the devil.

Mate, we're never going to agree on this, but I repeat that I consider it far fetched that when creating the state of Israel that man whipped out the bible and worked backwards to what was written; that man then went out of its way to create the mess that is the middle east; and planted various foreign forces on its northern border just to fulfil a prophecy. If you want to believe that, cool, but I don't.

Which is more far fetched...?

- people create a country (which they have been doing for a very long time)

- a God for whom there is no credible evidence intervenes and creates a country

Re atheism/agnostic. There's a debate about whether needing to be convinced about God by evidence makes one agnostic or atheist. There is also a school of thought that belief in a God but not a defined religion or holy scripture makes one an atheist. You can be whatever you want, makes no odds to me.

You are just creating your own definitions now.

On the lattervpoint, other people can be what they want and believe what they want. Live and let live pal.

People believing want they want is fine to a point, the problem is many let their irrational God beliefs impact on their actions and their actions impact on other people and society. That is an issue that needs to be tackled.

Like most things, problems arise when people try and impose their will and ideas onto others who have a different perspective. We need to find a way to live together that revolves around acceptance of our differences, not trying to force people to accept our way as the only way. It is something we are all guilty of. The only way we will survive on this planet is by learning to live and let live. So far the evidence points to that being beyond our comprehension.