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Thread: Impact of fans on poor home form

  1. #1

    Default Impact of fans on poor home form

    Our home form is the worst in the league this season, and without being a good bit above average in terms of away form we would be relegated by now pretty much.

    We have seen that at times we are actually a good team and are capable of matching and beating teams with better players. Some of our football in December and January has been great, but mostly away from home.

    This has been the case for a while now.

    So, to what extent are we, as fans, to blame for this?

    I am a ST holder but couldn't go yesterday so watched on TV, and was struck by how woeful the atmosphere was. Jenas mentioned on commentary that he has seen us a lot at home and thinks the fans get on the players backs too easily, and that was certainly the case yesterday, at least from the TV experience.

    So, are we a problem, at least in some part?

  2. #2

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    Yes.

    A very large proportion of our fan base are the ‘GET IT FORWARD’ type.

    Whilst performances on the pitch have been shocking, the lack of atmosphere, constant groaning when a player doesn’t lump it long can’t help.

    To play an attacking free flowing game you need to be relaxed.

    Austin wasn’t wrong in his assessment of our lot.

  3. #3

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    4 years solid of a combination of sh*te football and terrible results makes it pretty impossible to get excited about going anymore, let alone get a proper atmosphere going.
    Think the suggestion above that fans are impatient is nonsense though, I don't remember hearing the crowd groaning at the ball being passed around and shouting to get it forward for quite some time now.

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  4. #4

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    Half the problem, IMO, is that most of the best and most passionate Saints fans are on the SWF match thread rather than at the game a lot of the time. If we could somehow get these people along to the game then problem solved.
    Last edited by trousers; 16-02-2020 at 06:54 PM.

  5. #5

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    Itís a vicious circle isnít it?
    We have watched what? 3 and a half seasons of absolute crap at home bar the odd good performance so as soon as things start to go wrong most fans think ďoh Christ, here we go againĒ

    Going to home matches stopped being a pleasure, itís now more of a chore, the chances of seeing a decent performance is small.

    If the players are affected by the reaction from the crowd why are they ok away from home where 80% of the stadium is hostile towards them?

    Is it the fans fault when a player puts a simple pass out of play or when we lose possession?
    Is it the fans fault when the defence is so bad we cannot stop conceding stupid goals?
    Is it the fans fault when Shane Long misses from a yard out?
    Is it the fans fault when the manager makes a ridiculous sub - and yes Ralph is very guilty of this?

    I donít remember fans getting all the credit under Poch and Koeman.

    I personally think itís got to the stage that itís a mental thing, as soon as they pull on that home shirt in the home dressing room they lose belief. Maybe they should play in the away kit at St Maryís !
    Last edited by beatlesaint; 16-02-2020 at 06:15 PM.

  6. #6

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    I think it's a cycle , home form has been terrible for a few years, fans get plssed off, atmosphere gets worse and so on. It's not just singing, it's constant negative moaning that does my head in from fans around me, honestly don't know why some of them bother.

  7. Default

    Quote Originally Posted by trousers View Post
    Half the problem, IMO, is that most of the best and most passionate Saints fans are on the SWF match thread rather than at the game a lot of the time. We we could somehow get these people along to the game then problem solved.
    But if they bothered to turn up, then wouldn't the abuse aimed at the players intensify?

  8. #8

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    Quote Originally Posted by SKD View Post
    Yes.

    A very large proportion of our fan base are the ‘GET IT FORWARD’ type.

    Whilst performances on the pitch have been shocking, the lack of atmosphere, constant groaning when a player doesn’t lump it long can’t help.

    To play an attacking free flowing game you need to be relaxed.

    Austin wasn’t wrong in his assessment of our lot.
    Don’t agree with this at all.

  9. #9

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    Any professional worth his salt should be able to turn up and perform in an empty stadium. A passionate crowd can sometimes give a team that extra lift, 1% extra when a do or die game is going down to the wire. However, nothing the fans at St Mary's have done (or not done) over the past four seasons is any excuse at all for some of the abject, pathetic non-performances the team has put in. Any player who says otherwise needs to shut up and take a good hard look at his own attitude.

    Players are all to quick to dismiss the fan base when it comes to going on strike, refusing to play and demanding a big money move elsewhere etc. So for some of them to turn around and pretend they care about our supposed lack of support would be taking the p*ss.

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    Well, we were pretty noisy and positive in the Northam, even at 2-1 down, cant hear the rest of the ground tbh;not our fault Ings let the ball pass him

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    The atmosphere has reached an all time low recently. Understandable with the crap weíve had to put up with for so long.
    The atmosphere has been fantastic at times in that stadium. Those who donít think it makes a difference are incredibly naive.
    Something needs to change.


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  12. #12

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    Quote Originally Posted by SKD View Post
    Yes.

    A very large proportion of our fan base are the ‘GET IT FORWARD’ type.

    Whilst performances on the pitch have been shocking, the lack of atmosphere, constant groaning when a player doesn’t lump it long can’t help.

    To play an attacking free flowing game you need to be relaxed.

    Austin wasn’t wrong in his assessment of our lot.
    Spot on.

    Things like ironically cheering pelle, boruc and Forster, giving standing ovations to Walcott and chamberlain when they’d spent the entire game on gulys back. Proper weird behavior.

    We do have a lot of get it forward types and ones who only want to spend 90 minutes slagging their own players off.

  13. #13

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    Nowt wrong in the itchen north

  14. Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Dusic View Post
    Our home form is the worst in the league this season, and without being a good bit above average in terms of away form we would be relegated by now pretty much.

    We have seen that at times we are actually a good team and are capable of matching and beating teams with better players. Some of our football in December and January has been great, but mostly away from home.

    This has been the case for a while now.

    So, to what extent are we, as fans, to blame for this?

    I am a ST holder but couldn't go yesterday so watched on TV, and was struck by how woeful the atmosphere was. Jenas mentioned on commentary that he has seen us a lot at home and thinks the fans get on the players backs too easily, and that was certainly the case yesterday, at least from the TV experience.

    So, are we a problem, at least in some part?
    FFS let's blame the fans again for how poor the team is. I am seriously getting fed up with this. I have been a season ticket holder for 25+ years and followed the team home and away through thick and thin, and the support has has always been brilliant. But us fans are not robots, if only the players and coaching staff gave half the passion that the loyal fans give then we wouldn't even be having this conversation. We are simply not going to 'happy clap' a pathetic performance, home or away. Players and manger need to step up

  15. #15

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    Quote Originally Posted by davefoggy View Post
    FFS let's blame the fans again for how poor the team is. I am seriously getting fed up with this. I have been a season ticket holder for 25+ years and followed the team home and away through thick and thin, and the support has has always been brilliant. But us fans are not robots, if only the players and coaching staff gave half the passion that the loyal fans give then we wouldn't even be having this conversation. We are simply not going to 'happy clap' a pathetic performance, home or away. Players and manger need to step up
    Totally this. Blaming the fans is an easy and pathetic get out excuse. It’s ironic Austin had a twitter rant at the fans this weekend yet a few weeks ago he recalled telling Mark Hughes the players, his team mates, were spineless.

    Players that look to blame fans for them being **** poor are totally spineless.

  16. Default

    Watching Saints away, probably like any away support, is putting on a united front on and off the pitch and giving maximum backing to the team from the terraces. As away support we do not give away our day and travel without this commitment to support our club, city etc.

    Excluding the support in the Northam and Kingsland North, at home we are in amongst much less partisan support. This is no criticism of those regulars, but the support is diluted by local uni students, occasional visiting neutrals, and 'tourists' all being in the home areas with no real interest in the result but often moaning if the game isn't played as they expect and slagging off the relevant Redmond, Austin, Cedric etc .

    I sit opposite the tunnel in seats we have had since the club moved from the Dell. The most critical 'supporters' around us are those I have never seen before.

  17. #17

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    It may have an impact, but compared to the impact of having a poor tactical approach against teams that donít attack and leave themselves open, or the impact of having a sub standard squad with years of poor recruitment and under funding, itís minimal.

  18. #18

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    Ridiculous....if you can't play to the required standard, be it home or away, you shouldn't be playing in the PL....unless it hurts their feelings ofcousrse

  19. #19

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    If you think fans don’t made a difference then I suggest you listen to this from after the spurs league game.

    https://twitter.com/solentsport/stat...831148033?s=21

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    Yeah cause at Anfield the other day the crown were ferocious in their support, well after they scored. Up to that point they barely made a noise.
    Selhurst Park, a cauldron of atmosphere, and they’re doing wonders.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Turkish View Post
    If you think fans don’t made a difference then I suggest you listen to this from after the spurs league game.

    https://twitter.com/solentsport/stat...831148033?s=21
    seriously
    remember how JWP told us how we were heading for Europe

  22. #22

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    I don't blame the fans one iota for the poor form of the team at home, this one lands straight at the feet of the players and they deserve no excuse for the ****e they have subjected us to over the past three years at home.

    I think given the tripe on display we have actually stayed behind them very well, plenty of other clubs would have seen fans boycotting after three years of bottom three home form on the bounce with little sign of effort to turn things around, especially given we are in the top 10 for season ticket costs.

    Of course thats not to say we don't have idiots, but we are no worse than any other club in that regard.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Noodles34 View Post
    seriously
    remember how JWP told us how we were heading for Europe
    A player has come out and said the fans had an impact on the performance straight after the game, sorry you don’t want to believe it’s possible.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Noodles34 View Post
    Yeah cause at Anfield the other day the crown were ferocious in their support, well after they scored. Up to that point they barely made a noise.
    Selhurst Park, a cauldron of atmosphere, and they’re doing wonders.
    The atmosphere at Palace a few weeks ago was dire - as bad as any PL ground. Which is to say it’s easy yet lazy to hold up saints fans to standards that very grounds in the PL meet. In that respect, I agree with you.

    I’ve been to Sunderland loads of times - nobody would say their fanbase is s**t or entitled but the atmosphere there in the last few seasons they were in PL is very similar to SMS: nervous, impatient, reactive, resigned (pick your adjective) mirroring the woeful performances on the pitch and lack of direction off it. It’s hard to avoid the conclusion that most fanbases -regardless of demographics- won’t react in a similar way. As for Saturday, lunchtime games are notoriously subdued, even before accounting for the weather.

  25. #25

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    The quality of football and the performances at home over the last few years has done absolutely nothing to get the fans excited.
    The fans go to St Mary's expecting to see a loss because mentally we've all been conditioned to expect it.
    The commentators yesterday mentioned how edgy and hostile the crowd were towards their team and it's not unreasonable.
    When Vestergaard is fannying around playing the ball on the ground in and around the penalty area to other defenders who have not instilled an iota of confidence in the team or fans, what does anyone expect?
    We are all willing the players to clear their lines and hoof it clear because we are all expecting a poor pass to be made and a goal conceded as a result.
    There is no joy to be had at home. There is no reason for optimism. Everyone is expecting a stupid mistake.
    It's the way it is. We don't have the players to build confidence in the stands, we do have the players to frustrate and make mistakes.
    Away from home the fans tend to be the hardcore few who will sing whatever the performance because they are outnumbered and want to be heard.
    Play well for a sustained period, get results, don't make mistakes, breed confidence and it will be returned.
    Mess about and concede goals, get tactics and personnel wrong and it won't.

  26. #26

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    Quote Originally Posted by shurlock View Post
    The atmosphere at Palace a few weeks ago was dire - as bad as any PL ground. Which is to say itís easy yet lazy to hold up saints fans to standards that very grounds in the PL meet. In that respect, I agree with you.

    Iíve been to Sunderland loads of times - nobody would say their fanbase is s**t or entitled but the atmosphere there in the last few seasons they were in PL is very similar to SMS: nervous, impatient, reactive, resigned (pick your adjective) mirroring the woeful performances on the pitch and lack of direction off it. Itís hard to avoid the conclusion that most fanbases -regardless of demographics- wonít react in a similar way. As for Saturday, lunchtime games are notoriously subdued, even before accounting for the weather.
    yeah, the palace support the other day was lacking as theyíd lost their last 5 games or so.
    i donít think our support at home is much less and probably sometimes a bit more than all the other clubs.
    our away support on the whole as had good days like Villa and Leicester and bad ones like Spurs, Liverpool and Chelsea (spot the connection).
    I'm sure players, like fans can get a bit more fired up when we are on top of te game and pressing forward, especially against the big teams, like the Spurs home game. But on the whole, Are they really affected that much that it contributes to a poor display?
    Impersonally do not think so at all.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Turkish View Post
    A player has come out and said the fans had an impact on the performance straight after the game, sorry you don’t want to believe it’s possible.
    a player says. That we are aiming up now, yep, Europe is a possibility, blah, blah
    And you believe that?
    if you’re buying into after match sound bytes mate, you’re clutching at straws.

  28. #28

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    If they want a better atmosphere then they need to start putting performances together. Fans aren't passionless robots, they need to see something to get excited about.
    I actually commend the fans that keep on going, I'd love to know how many have simply stopped going. I think it would be a lot.

  29. Default

    Moaning fans are universal at all levels of team games , partly fueled by ever increasing commersialisation and winning at all costs to keep the money rolling in. See NFL deflategate , athletics and cycling drugs etc etc.

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    Quote Originally Posted by trousers View Post
    Half the problem, IMO, is that most of the best and most passionate Saints fans are on the SWF match thread rather than at the game a lot of the time. If we could somehow get these people along to the game then problem solved.
    Very good point

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    Quote Originally Posted by Turkish View Post
    Spot on.

    Things like ironically cheering pelle, boruc and Forster, giving standing ovations to Walcott and chamberlain when they’d spent the entire game on gulys back. Proper weird behavior.

    We do have a lot of get it forward types and ones who only want to spend 90 minutes slagging their own players off.
    This

  32. #32

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    Our fans don't really have much impact on home games as we don't have a large bank of vocal fans behind a goal where they'd be noticed by the players and officials. That's why we don't get the 50/50 refereeing decisions going our way like other teams do when they play at home. At least at away games, our vocal fans are united in one large group.

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    I have sat in the Kingsland stand on a number of occasions this season (borrow of friends season ticket) & the number of fans that have not got a clue on football is staggering. As highlighted above the clueless 'get the ball forward' fans are laughable - prime example in the Norwich game a few months back. We are 2-1 in front & hanging on to a lead - the team are passing around at the back, keeping procession yet there are guys still standing up & yelling to lump in forward!

  34. #34

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    The design of the stadium,location of away fans and the desire to let the opposition attack "their " end second half are all basic factors.

  35. #35

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    Quote Originally Posted by SKD View Post
    Yes.

    A very large proportion of our fan base are the ‘GET IT FORWARD’ type.

    Whilst performances on the pitch have been shocking, the lack of atmosphere, constant groaning when a player doesn’t lump it long can’t help.

    To play an attacking free flowing game you need to be relaxed.

    Austin wasn’t wrong in his assessment of our lot.
    I wont argue that our that the atmosphere at home is very poor, has been for many many years and not so much to do with the rubbish we have put up with for the last 3/4 years. Does that have or should it have any effect on the teams performance, NOT ONE BIT. These people are massively overpaid professionals and should be embarrassed to even consider blaming, even to just themselves, supporters for our home form.

    I will however argue about the dribble in saying 'GET IT FORWARD TYPE'. I cant tell you as a ST holder sitting very close to the saint dugout Ralph hears every word shouted at him. I can tell you for a fact nobody has shouted to 'lump it long'. I can tell you for a fact he has been told that we should stop the pointless passing sideways at the back because a - our players are too slow in there passing, b - too slow in there footwork, c - too week in there mentality meaning that any form of pressing from a team induces catastrophic mistakes normally resulting in conceding.

    I can also tell you that what has been suggested was for the team to raise the tempo of there forward play meaning more movement from players, passing balls with pace expecting players to be able to control the ball and to control the ball so they can move the play forward and not towards our goal which our players have a problem defending. Basically to stop this slow, possession based play.

    Now i dont know about you but i would suggest that almost all of those points were implemented into our play after the back to back Man City losses and coincided with the amazing play and results we saw in the back end of the year and new year. I am not for 1 claiming were are responsible for the upturn in form, all of these things were obvious to see but to suggested fans were just saying to 'LUMP IT FORWARD' is plain and simply wrong.

    Back to the original post , home fans sheet - yes, does it matter - no

  36. #36

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    Thought our fans away at Portsmouth were excellent but I have been critical of the home 'support' for a longtime.

    Saying that I think only a handful of clubs in the EPL have excellent home support.

    I would say that this forum no longer represents the general fans views or opinions as its been moderated so that ALL views are allowed but the view and opinion MUST be positive.

  37. #37

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    I think the atmosphere at home is one of the major problems for our lack of points at home. There is always a nervousness or groans when we play the ball around at the back and that definitely filters through to the players. Unfortunately we are in a world now where everyone wants everything now and football is no different. I go to the majority of away games now, as the home atmosphere is so toxic and awful. Away from home everyone gets behind the boys.

    The other reason is we are not set up to be a home team with possession. Without Redmond and bow Boufal out injured we have no creativity or spark going forward. We are a counter attacking side and this doesn't work against teams who sit back and give you possession, as we cannot break sides down and and then the crowd get impatient.

    Ralph has mentioned it loads of times about the crowd are not helping and commentators are constantly mentioning the nervousness at home games. This needs to change and quickly.

  38. #38

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    Which way round is it?

    We've had plenty of good atmospheres over the years. When we were decent people seemed more excited about home games, when we scored more and could defend a league.

    Maybe our fans are average, below average, I don't know. But very few have had to put up with the lack of goals and wins at home in the last few years.

  39. #39

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    Quote Originally Posted by trousers View Post
    Half the problem, IMO, is that most of the best and most passionate Saints fans are on the SWF match thread rather than at the game a lot of the time. If we could somehow get these people along to the game then problem solved.
    Surely be better to improve the Wi-Fi and have all the fans at the game on the forum so Turkish can tell them how to be good fans in real time???

  40. Default

    Cut to Man U and Arsenal fans booing their teams off , chanting attack attack attack etc all fanbases are the same . Tourists , just people looking for Prem experience , clubs always looking to expand fanbase . Saints fanbase is similar to all fanbases , diehard will always back team , moaners who attend all home matches , fans who are just having a day out etc.
    Solution : team wins games and plays in positive style , all fans happy except some on here !

  41. #41

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    Quote Originally Posted by Heisenberg View Post
    Thought our fans away at Portsmouth were excellent but I have been critical of the home 'support' for a longtime. You are never at home games so have no idea

    Saying that I think only a handful of clubs in the EPL have excellent home support.

    I would say that this forum no longer represents the general fans views or opinions as its been moderated so that ALL views are allowed but the view and opinion MUST be positive.
    ...

  42. #42

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    It's a tricky one. Home games these days are a bit of a hostile environment, because it's been consistently 4 years of utter, utter, utter dross - with the odd random win sprinkled in there somewhere.

    It's impossible for this not to have influenced the fans. I still go, but there are 6 people I was with around me who no longer attend - people below me no longer attend. There's only so much money you can keep shelling out if you're getting the most substandard product, the prices haven't gone down in that time either.

    There is an element of apathy I feel - just an acceptance of our fate, I mean what can we do? We can't influence Kat or Gao, they've got their toy and they can just wave at us from up high whilst we hold banners up - but it would probably just create even more hostile environment for very little return.

    But the crux is that Gao needs to go before we can become a united club again, how that happens....no idea.

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    Nothing to do with the fans, everything to do with sloppy defending and lack of creativity.

  44. #44

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    Quote Originally Posted by Lighthouse View Post
    Any professional worth his salt should be able to turn up and perform in an empty stadium. A passionate crowd can sometimes give a team that extra lift, 1% extra when a do or die game is going down to the wire. However, nothing the fans at St Mary's have done (or not done) over the past four seasons is any excuse at all for some of the abject, pathetic non-performances the team has put in. Any player who says otherwise needs to shut up and take a good hard look at his own attitude.

    Players are all to quick to dismiss the fan base when it comes to going on strike, refusing to play and demanding a big money move elsewhere etc. So for some of them to turn around and pretend they care about our supposed lack of support would be taking the p*ss.
    Then why do most teams throughout history have better home records than away?

  45. Default

    Quote Originally Posted by hackedoff View Post
    The design of the stadium,location of away fans and the desire to let the opposition attack "their " end second half are all basic factors.
    Leicester and Stoke kicked towards their fans in the 1st half.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Dark Munster View Post
    Then why do most teams throughout history have better home records than away?
    Because they're used to playing there. They know the surface, the grass length, water it how they like, the dressing room, the sun direction etc. Yes, having a passionate stand of continental ultras would give them a small boost but in no way does that account for the four years of sh*te we've had to watch.

  47. #47

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    Quote Originally Posted by Dark Munster View Post
    Then why do most teams throughout history have better home records than away?
    There has been a lot of research into this. They found that the main factor was that the home crowd influenced referees to give more key decisions in favour of the home team. Obviously, a bank of noisy fans strategically located behind the goal will help gain penalties and free-kicks for their team as well as cards for the opposition. I've often seen referees react to noisy away fans in he Northam demanding a free-kick or a card for one of our players but you don't get the same effect from the quiet fans behind the goal in the Chapel

    "There is overwhelming evidence that referees decisions are biased towards the home team. Moskowitz and Wertheim (2012) found that the referee was the most influential factor on home advantage. They did make it clear that this is not done consciously, instead, the referees were affected subconsciously by the emotion of a home crowd.

    A study by Harvard Research Assistant Ryan Boyko on 5,000 Premier League games from 1992 to 2006 found for every 10,000 home team fans, home advantage increased by 0.1 goals."

    https://help.smarkets.com/hc/en-gb/a...otball-trading

  48. #48

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    "Official: bias is the most significant contributor to home field advantage”
    It sounds simple, but it’s true. Vocal fans make a difference, but not by getting into the head of their opponents–by getting into the head of the referees. Consider a few of the findings from Moskowitz and Wertheim:

    In examining 750 matches from Spain’s premier league, they found that in close matches with the home team ahead, referees shortened the game and when the home team was behind they abnormally lengthened the game. There was significant official bias in the allotment of discretionary time. And strikingly, in games that were not close, there was no bias at all. Referees also award more penalties in favor of the home team.

    To be clear, Moskowitz and Wertheim are not alleging any conspiracy against the visiting team. No one is instructing the referees to favor the home team. In fact, they are most likely unaware they are doing so. But it seems that the human inclination to please others and the propensity to conform, takes a toll on fallible officials. In fact, the evidence demonstrates that official bias increases with the size of the home crowd. The larger and more intense the crowd, the more advantage there is for the home team, especially in sports and in settings which allow for a lot of anxiety and a lot of discretion in decision making (e.g., extra time, yellow cards, personal fouls, end of game situations)."

  49. #49

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    Quote Originally Posted by Lighthouse View Post
    Because they're used to playing there. They know the surface, the grass length, water it how they like, the dressing room, the sun direction etc. Yes, having a passionate stand of continental ultras would give them a small boost but in no way does that account for the four years of sh*te we've had to watch.
    In reality, these factors are irrelevant. Research shows that when teams share a stadium, there is exactly the same advantage for the home team as when the 2 teams play at different stadiums, because they are allocated most of the tickets and so have the controlling influence on the officials.

  50. #50

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    Cant we get the 'White Witch' in again to purge the stadium of historical 'bad vibes' or dig up the pitch to locate the buried Pompey shirt.

    Something must be done as watching home games is indeed a chore as someone has described and this has been going on since Koeman left.

    I worry about forthcoming games against Villa, Newcastle and Brighton.

    We just cant lose any of these games.

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