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Thread: Time for VAR to be binned?`

  1. #1

    Default Time for VAR to be binned?`

    Having just seen the Spurs challenge which was clearly a red card and yet VAR deemed it OK, surely the time has come to bin this POS? The delays, the inconsistencies - while it was a great idea if implemented properly it has been an unmitigated disaster.

    The Le Celso challenge was far, far worse than Bertrands in the Leicester game (where he got the red card) yet it was not even a booking.

    When you compare 'video ref' reviews for rugby, cricket, AMerican football, etc, it is only VAR that is ridiculously bad (or at least the human operators of it). Waiting 3 minutes for a decision - wtf?

  2. #2

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    That was ridiculous. Red card all day.

  3. #3

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    Mistakes shouldn't equal 'binning it'. It just needs competent refs looking at at the screens. A lack of competent refs is a problems with or without VAR.

  4. #4

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    I despise VAR. It’s breaking up the momentum of games, players and fans don’t know if to celebrate or not and most of all, it’s sucking the joy out of football. This might sound a radical suggestion, but how about actually asking the the fans who pay to attend games or fork out for expensive TV subs if we want it?

  5. #5

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    Make it a referral system. One per half for each team. Ref views on monitor. Monitor relayed to big screen. Handballs viewed in real time. Offsides subject to 30 second counter. Fixed.

  6. #6

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    We (SFC) have benefitted overall from VAR this season.

    But I'd still bin it. Making the game very dull

  7. #7

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    Quote Originally Posted by Heisenberg View Post
    Making the game very dull
    How is it making it dull? If anything there are now more talking points because the refs are **** using what would otherwise be a good system.

  8. #8

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    Quote Originally Posted by benjii View Post
    Make it a referral system. One per half for each team.
    What about incidents where the players aren't aware of an issue?

    Quote Originally Posted by benjii View Post
    Ref views on monitor.
    The lack of this happening is a major issue.

    Quote Originally Posted by benjii View Post
    Monitor relayed to big screen.
    Would that help? May just wide up the crowd.

    Quote Originally Posted by benjii View Post
    Offsides subject to 30 second counter.
    What does that mean?

  9. #9

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    Quote Originally Posted by Matthew Le God View Post
    How is it making it dull? If anything there are now more talking points because the refs are **** using what would otherwise be a good system.
    I don't want more talking points. I want a more free flowing game and importantly when a goal is scored I want to celebrate. Not wait 3 minutes for a VAR check.

  10. #10

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    Quote Originally Posted by Heisenberg View Post
    I don't want more talking points. I want a more free flowing game and importantly when a goal is scored I want to celebrate. Not wait 3 minutes for a VAR check.
    Celebrate when it happens, then celebrate if the goal is allowed.

    2 celebrations >>> 1 celebration

  11. #11

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    I have, in principle, been in favour of VAR but that Lo Celso decision makes a mockery of the whole process ...
    No sensible footballing person could deem that anything other than a straight red !
    What it proves though is that it’s not the system but the people running it !!

  12. #12

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    Listening to radio they said Michael oliver didnt even check pitchside monitor

  13. #13

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    Default Time for VAR to be binned?`

    The decision to not send off Lo Celso has been recognised as incorrect

    Daft

  14. #14

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    Not even a yellow

    Refs/VAR just so inconsistent

  15. #15

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    Can there now be a retrospective red card as VAR now admit their mistake ?

  16. #16

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    Dermot Gallagher said that he can’t understand the decision and he normally backs the ref every time !
    A total joke !!

  17. Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Matthew Le God View Post
    Mistakes shouldn't equal 'binning it'. It just needs competent refs looking at at the screens. A lack of competent refs is a problems with or without VAR.
    One of the issues the FA has always quoted when the lack of competent refs is brought up is that the abuse they get doesn't make it a popular career choice. If VAR refs were left anonymous to the public and accountable behind closed doors, that would eliminate that problem.

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  18. #18

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    Quote Originally Posted by Matthew Le God View Post
    What about incidents where the players aren't aware of an issue?



    The lack of this happening is a major issue.



    Would that help? May just wide up the crowd.



    What does that mean?
    Coaching team refers, not players.

    Crowd being wound up is good.

    It means there's a 30 second counter from when the images start to be reviewed and if the decision can't be reversed in that time with certainty then the original stands.

  19. #19

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    Keep VAR, just sack the idiot who made the descision.

    Refs have always used the ‘didnt see it excuse’ now there is no hiding place for those that are just not good enough.

  20. #20

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    Most of what I've seen from VAR has been fine tbh - with the exception of some of the offside rulings, which I think should give players the benefit of the doubt..

    I'd keep it, but clarify offside rules and encourage the referees to look at foul decisions on the screens at the side of the pitch. Do that and it'll be fine.

  21. #21

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    Quote Originally Posted by Matthew Le God View Post
    Mistakes shouldn't equal 'binning it'. It just needs competent refs looking at at the screens. A lack of competent refs is a problems with or without VAR.
    Ooooooh ok brilliant, so we just need to bring in the competent refs instead of the incompetent ones then? Can somebody please relay MLG's message onto the Prem/FA so they can sort this?

  22. #22

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    I'm fully on board with the conspiracy theory that PL refs are doing their best to make VAR look bad so they can get rid of it.

    Stop blaming the technology, blame the same old terrible referees that operate it.

  23. #23

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    VAR is here to stay. In England what we need is a team of full time trained experienced referees that only work on VAR. At the moment every referee on the list takes his turn whilst still refereeing. That in itself leads to inconsistency. The only thing that is working well within the parameters laid down is offside. Right every time. It's the things that need an opinion are inconsistent. The same opinions that go against us regularly.

  24. #24

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    Would the Burnley penalty have been given ( ie reviewed ) if it wasn't part of the automatic check after Bompey "scored" on the break from a Burnley corner ? As they said on 5Live, that game went 0-0, 0-1, 0-0, 1-0, 1-1, 1-0, 2-0, 3-0, with 2 Bournemouth goals disallowed by VAR.

  25. Default

    Get rid

  26. #26

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    Please just pull the plug & let's never talk of VAR again

  27. #27

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    Quote Originally Posted by derry View Post
    The only thing that is working well within the parameters laid down is offside. Right every time.
    The offsides have been the biggest joke about VAR this season. I know the arguments, "well technically one of his right nostril hairs was offside so that's a great decision". Ok fine if that excites you and pleases you then go ahead, but undoubtedly the offsides (then perhaps the handballs next?) have been the most disgraceful element of this debacle.

  28. Default

    Beggars belief at times, you see the replay, e.g. Toby handballing it against us and think, “great, that’s a clear penalty” only to see them say “no”. Then the next day a Liverpool or City player will trip over his own bootlaces and it’s a penalty with the commentators saying “his foot brushed his thigh there, that’s a penalty for me” when the player was already diving before the minimal amount of contact. I just flip a ****ing coin now. Stupid.

  29. #29

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    VAR as a system is great. It is the inconsistency in its application that is the problem.

    When watching the RWC I noticed that the rugby boys have a 3 point "protocol" which they use when making a decision through VAR. It is clear and the crowd can hear the referees working through the protocol. "Did he do this... did he do that... etc etc " The same happens in cricket with lbw decisions where an established procedure is run through.

    It seems to work in rugby, a sport like football where there is an element of judgement involved and a sport like cricket where facts can be established (the ball would have hit the stumps). Could a similarly publicised, transparent protocol be established for football?

  30. #30

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    The should mic these cnts up at Stockley Park like the naf BT ******** of calling in a ref.

    How that Spurs tackled was referred and deemed fine was staggering amongst a so many staggering decisions, Are other countries making such a fcking mess of it as the PL?

    I reckon that woman who moans about too many elections if in a room with all the VAR decisions over the season would get more right than these professional officials

  31. #31

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    Felt sorry for Bournemouth yesterday, thought they were robbed even after VAR.

  32. #32

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    Fans need to start joining forces in the ground to sing "f.uck VAR" every time it's used. If we had the home and away supporters chanting together in every game it would send a powerful message.

  33. #33

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    For me VAR is being used for too many incidents which are open to interpretation. It should only be used for offsides because they are objective, you are either onside or you aren’t. It’s the communication with fans that is the issue with these decisions. If you had the VAR ref wear a mic it would be a start.

    For everything else just leave it to the on field ref, unless it’s a huge error (like the red card with Lo Celso yesterday or a dive) in which case have the VAR ref invite the on field ref to review his decision on the pitch side monitor. Using it for handball is a joke because there’s so much grey area around the rule itself.

  34. #34

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    "But VAR generates talking points" MLG 22.02.2020

  35. #35

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    Quote Originally Posted by Tamesaint View Post
    VAR as a system is great. It is the inconsistency in its application that is the problem.

    When watching the RWC I noticed that the rugby boys have a 3 point "protocol" which they use when making a decision through VAR. It is clear and the crowd can hear the referees working through the protocol. "Did he do this... did he do that... etc etc " The same happens in cricket with lbw decisions where an established procedure is run through.

    It seems to work in rugby, a sport like football where there is an element of judgement involved and a sport like cricket where facts can be established (the ball would have hit the stumps). Could a similarly publicised, transparent protocol be established for football?
    "the ball would have hit the stumps" is not a fact, merely and estimation.

  36. #36

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    Tamesaint is correct that the application of VAR is being abysmally managed with ridiculous errors and inconsistency of decisions. But also, VAR enables things which no referee could ever have seen, being found and to be examined in miniscule detail. The purpose of the rules is being lost, which should be to ensure a fair game. Instead the focus has moved the miniscule of the laws, such as whether a player's arm is beyond a defender's foot, by a couple of centimetres, regardless of whether any advantage was gained.

  37. #37

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    Binning VAR is not going to fix the problem, it would just enhance it.
    Referees would still get it wrong and we would still be talking about it till the end of time.
    Just improve the standard of refereeing and make consistent decisions,
    Or better employ foreign referees in the PL, why not get the best ones out there???

  38. Default

    A reminder this is supposed to be Video Assisting the Referee (VAR) not Video Replacing Referee (VRR).
    Pitch referees do seem to be leaving it to the Video Technician to make decisions now. "Bottling it" to quote Garth Crooks.
    If the pitch ref isn't prepared to take the decisions himself, then they're little point in him being on the pitch. May as well give the whistle and loud speaker to the Video Technician.
    I had been expecting the pitch ref to use the monitor pitchside to see contentious decisions played back, and then that ref to make the decisions HIMSELF.
    Can we just have that, not the man in the studio talking in the ref's ear and making the decision for him?

  39. #39

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    There is a meeting this week to establish any changes. It will mean 6 votes from 8 to get a decision. 4 home nations plus 4 FIFA reps. The offside rule is not up for discussion. All items for this meeting had to be ratified at a council meeting last December. What is up for discussion is to allow the spectators to see the video replays and hear the conversation while the evaluation is carried out.

  40. #40

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    VAR should have been the ideal way to ensure that games reflected the true result, and removed some of the terrible decisions made by the Refs. Instead, they have a flawed system that they have now made worse as the season has gone on.

    On offside, the rulings have been right, it is the rules that need changing, so armpits etc are not deemed to be interfering with play.

    The rest of it has been changed for the worse during the season. How can a defensive handball not be punished, but an attacking one is? Also, it is clear to me that they have decided that in nearly all cases the ref is right with his original decision unless you are playing Liverpool or City, in which case it can be changed.

    They need referees looking at the monitors, and they need to call a penalty when it is a penalty, even when the referee thinks it isn't.

    Finally, if they are going to change the rules, then they need to bring in a system where the clock is stopped each time the ball is not in play, and then we would actually the game time we have paid for by buying a ticket.

  41. #41

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    Quote Originally Posted by Cabrone View Post
    Felt sorry for Bournemouth yesterday, thought they were robbed even after VAR.
    How much 'settling in' of the system and process is required to adjudge handball ? ( Neither of the Bournemouth instances were ).

  42. Default

    Quote Originally Posted by CWD View Post
    For me VAR is being used for too many incidents which are open to interpretation. It should only be used for offsides because they are objective, you are either onside or you arenít. Itís the communication with fans that is the issue with these decisions. If you had the VAR ref wear a mic it would be a start.

    For everything else just leave it to the on field ref, unless itís a huge error (like the red card with Lo Celso yesterday or a dive) in which case have the VAR ref invite the on field ref to review his decision on the pitch side monitor. Using it for handball is a joke because thereís so much grey area around the rule itself.
    I agree main problem with VAR implementation at present is the remit is far too wide, which is making it too disruptive to the overall flow of the game. They are trying to use it to solve everything when that will never be achieved to the satisfaction of everyone anyway because so many decisions are subjective in football and down to interpretation.

    It needs to be limited more, either just to specific events that can be accurately ruled on, eg offsides, or by introducing a referrals system where each team gets max of say 2 referrals to VAR, if they are successful they keep their reviews, if they are wrong they lose them. Then it wouldn't be compulsory for every goal to be reviewed (apart from offsides), only reviewed for other matters where managers think they have seen a clear error. That should make it more in the spirit I think it was intended which was to remove the clear howlers made by on field officials, not to pore endlessly over every minute occurrence in the game trying to find something to overturn.

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  43. #43

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    VAR needs time to be refined and work better.

    Take offsides for example. Normally the lino's flag will go up no later than the ball hitting the back of the net, many times it will go up way before the attack has even got near the goal if the defence is playing a very high line. Either way the crowd knows pretty soon that offside has been given. The decision may be good, marginal or terrible, but nevertheless fans know where they stand.

    I can accept the forensic part of VAR is necessary in terms of getting the decision "right", but the process itself has not been integrated well into the matchday experience for supporters. I don't think fans generally give a toss beyond goal or no goal IMO, they just want to know the outcome ASAP. So it needs to be quicker.

    But ditching it altogether? Not for me. It will provide better consistency of decisions overall, they just need to be made using a more efficient process.

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