Coronavirus

It seems that both Southampton and Norwich are applying to have their whole populations tested on a weekly basis via mouth swab tests. Good idea if it can be implemented.

Link?

My daughter has just phoned. She says she has been shopping and everybody seemed to be acting as if the lockdown has ended and she was the only one trying to Social Distance. Aisles as busy as they have ever been, and when she waited at the till, leaving a 2m gap, three people inserted themselves in front of her.

 

That was my experience yesterday, some people sensibly sticking to social distancing but made the whole exercise pointless by a few morons wandering around not giving a ****.

 

That’s what happens when you get people to rely on their common sense, some people just don’t have any.

And also hygiene. Showering and having change of clothes is very impractical for a lot of work places.

 

Helps the social distancing now though.

 

My commute is 12.5miles each way and I’m lucky as 10 of those are off road (MTB required) before meeting up the cycle lanes in the city otherwise I wouldn’t be doing it with the bad drivers around, it’s just not worth it.

Link?

 

https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-8313447/Officials-Norwich-plan-test-140-000-residents-coronavirus-WEEK.html

Truly horrific. Imagine being a 'novice' rider in London, utter carnage!

 

I used to cycle from Waterloo to Liverpool Street area and it was not particularly pleasant. OK on the backstreets but the busy junctions near the Thames and the City sucked big-time. Also, many of the cyclists were massive ****-heads.

I would rather risk catching the virus than cycle to work during rush hour, too many idiot drivers around.

I used to cycle from Waterloo to Liverpool Street area and it was not particularly pleasant. OK on the backstreets but the busy junctions near the Thames and the City sucked big-time. Also, many of the cyclists were massive ****-heads.

 

Same. Much much better now with graded cycle path from Lambeth all the way to Holborn Viaduct (did it a couple of times in Feb). Smithfields still the same, but then cycle path until Spittlefields - Brick Lane same as ever

https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-8313447/Officials-Norwich-plan-test-140-000-residents-coronavirus-WEEK.html

Thank you.

Johnson had a mare in PMQs.

 

What a difference a competent Leader of the Opposition makes.

What a difference a competent Leader of the Opposition makes.

 

Get the impression Starmer is going to tear Bojo apart. He's going easy on him over C-19.

Get the impression Starmer is going to tear Bojo apart. He's going easy on him over C-19.

 

Hague used to regularly monster Blair at PMQ’s didn’t make a blind bit of difference.

 

Let’s see how he does when the chambers full & there’s a coordinated heckling campaign from the vast banks of Tory MP’s. The subject matter lends itself to boring forensic scrutiny, it won’t always be like that.

 

 

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Boris' garrulous approach, which people once found refreshing, quickly wears thin when he floundering about. Apparently tory booing and clapping is going to save him, FFS.

 

Any thing can be forensically scrutinised, I look forward to more sessions with The Barrister and The Buffoon.

Hague used to regularly monster Blair at PMQ’s didn’t make a blind bit of difference.

 

Let’s see how he does when the chambers full & there’s a coordinated heckling campaign from the vast banks of Tory MP’s. The subject matter lends itself to boring forensic scrutiny, it won’t always be like that.

 

 

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Yes Duck One let's wait and see.

Yes Duck One let's wait and see.

 

Exactly...

 

 

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Bluster and waffle versus forensic scrutiny. Interesting times ahead.

Hague used to regularly monster Blair at PMQ’s didn’t make a blind bit of difference.

 

Let’s see how he does when the chambers full & there’s a coordinated heckling campaign from the vast banks of Tory MP’s. The subject matter lends itself to boring forensic scrutiny, it won’t always be like that.

 

 

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People probably were aware Blair was a QC not a failed reporter and well....William Hague (really? you're comparing the former solicitor general and one of our country's top barrister's to William "Tory boy" Hague....Lord Carrington's view of him was quite similar to a lot of people's opinion of Boris). That's clearly why Moggy wants the commons to return asap though.

Edited 13 May, 2020 by Hockey_saint

Bluster and waffle versus forensic scrutiny. Interesting times ahead.

 

Yeah but he has ruffled hair and says whiff waff.

Too busy being a bluff old cove to read his brief

 

LD probably taken in by his answer on the comparison slide and impressed by care home reply.

 

So encouraging to have Starmer now. Measured and trustworthy. Don’t know how good a leader he is but clearly massive massive improvement

Bluster and waffle versus forensic scrutiny. Interesting times ahead.

 

Shame he didn't apply the same level of forensic scrutiny, when the crimes of Jimmy Saville were dismissed for insufficient evidence by the CPS

Shame he didn't apply the same level of forensic scrutiny, when the crimes of Jimmy Saville were dismissed for insufficient evidence by the CPS

 

Bingo.

 

Shame Balders that you’re incapable of thinking for yourself beyond rehashing alt-right/left smears or understanding how organisations and the wider legal system work pal.

 

Just need John Worboys now for a full house. Trust another halfwit will be here soon enough to do the honours

Edited 14 May, 2020 by shurlock

Bingo.

 

Shame Balders that you’re incapable of having an original thought, thinking for yourself or understanding how organisations work pal.

 

Just need John Worboys now for a full house. Trust another halfwit will be here soon enough to do the honours

 

 

Kier Starmer obviously apologised for nothing then...

 

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-20992789

https://www.theguardian.com/uk/2013/jan/11/jimmy-savile-police-report

Edited 14 May, 2020 by Johnny Bognor

Kier Starmer obviously apologised for nothing then...

 

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-20992789

https://www.theguardian.com/uk/2013/jan/11/jimmy-savile-police-report

 

Yes he apologised on behalf of the CPS as it’s head. So what?

 

Was he personally involved in the case? The reviewing lawyer who decided not to pursue the allegations? Allegations that the police refused to pursue given how notoriously difficult it is to prosecute historical sexual offences (just ask Boris 'spaffing money up the wall' Johnson and one reason why Starmer recommended the introduction of mandatory reporting that would have required professionals to report suspected child abuse as it occurred or face liability, though the case for mandatory reporting is far from straightforward)? No.

 

The independent review didn’t fault Starmer; to the extent it was critical of any one person, it was the CPS's reviewing lawyer, a rape specialist, for not challenging the police account forcefully enough. Which is fair enough. You might want to educate yourself how the CPS works. It is not a top-down organisation; it is fiercely decentralised and autonomous made up of regional teams each headed up by a crown prosecutor with responsiblity for prosecuting cases locally. Or you might simply want to educate yourself how complex, path dependent organisations work.

 

Don't be so wet behind the ears or such a sheep Baaaalders.

Edited 14 May, 2020 by shurlock

Kier Starmer obviously apologised for nothing then...

 

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-20992789

https://www.theguardian.com/uk/2013/jan/11/jimmy-savile-police-report

Jesus wept.

Kier Starmer obviously apologised for nothing then...

 

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-20992789

https://www.theguardian.com/uk/2013/jan/11/jimmy-savile-police-report

 

I'm not a Labour voter but there are large volumes of images in the public domain of Savile with Tory campaign buses, with Thatcher who he was a close advisor to. In the 1980s, he was given all manner of accesses to public facilities he shouldn't have been. I'd quit whilst you aren't too embarrassed on this point.

Shame he didn't apply the same level of forensic scrutiny, when the crimes of Jimmy Saville were dismissed for insufficient evidence by the CPS

 

Done yourself no favours here JB.

Shame he didn't apply the same level of forensic scrutiny, when the crimes of Jimmy Saville were dismissed for insufficient evidence by the CPS

 

My boss at the time, Roger Coe-Salazar, a CCP, carried out the case review for Starmer who as Shurlock rightly says, was not involved in making the decision. You need to check your facts (a bit like Boris).

I've moved as much as I can be arsed, the Starmer stuff is all in the Labour thread.

Not sure about the numbers but know a lot feel been much wider than we’ve been lead to believe

 

This one is interesting...usual stuff from the Daily Mail:

I've moved as much as I can be arsed, the Starmer stuff is all in the Labour thread.

 

At least you've changed the title from "the death of the Labour party".

Is that the woman who used to present Homes Under the Hammer, in an open marriage? I wonder if Dion is involved.

This one is interesting...usual stuff from the Daily Mail:

I'm sick to death of some teachers and their attitude, making parents feel guilty for following government guidance. Teachers know they will get paid regardless and so have no economic pressure to return to work.

 

This is just one example from a school earlier today:

 

 

 

That's a complete distortion of the guidance and it seems to me that some teachers want the government to either cure the virus or keep them off from school indefinitely (this includes some of my friends who are teachers with this attitude.) it's not a surprise to me that the ones screaming loudest about having to return are those in the public sector who don't have to deal directly with the immediate economic impact that this is having.

Edited 14 May, 2020 by hypochondriac

Is that the woman who used to present Homes Under the Hammer, in an open marriage? I wonder if Dion is involved.

 

If that's her, she's aged badly!.....Clearly not been taking those age-defying pills the Mail advertises.

 

In all seriousness, the unions represent the teachers; they're not against their own members and anyone knows of a 4 or 5 year old that can socially distance....give them an award.

Most of the parents I know of are bricking it having to send their kids back. It's the government who want them back so mummy and daddy can continue being good little taxpayers and earn their rich mates some money....I grant you though, this still doesn't beat the Mail's "Hurrah for the blackshirts" front page.

Edited 14 May, 2020 by Hockey_saint

If that's her, she's aged badly!.....Clearly not been taking those age-defying pills the Mail advertises.

 

In all seriousness, the unions represent the teachers; they're not against their own members and anyone knows of a 4 or 5 year old that can socially distance....give them an award.

There is not one single reported case in the world of transmission of covid between a child under ten and an adult. Young children cannot do social distancing and they should not be asked to. Sensible precautions should be taken by the adults and risk should be managed just like everyone else who is still working is doing. Early years settings and schools have stayed open albeit at lower capacity and as far as I am aware there have been no cases in these settings. Even nurseries in hospitals have reported no cases.

 

Lots of teacher unions and headteachers are making lots of noise about it being unsafe but have yet to come up with any solutions to make it more safe in their eyes. If they judge it unsafe now, at what point do they believe it will suddenly be safe again to the degree that they can open? Or are they proposing that schools stay shut for the 18 months to a year that it may take to possibly have a workable vaccine? Teachers unions don't speak for teachers, they speak on behalf of some teachers and also some who have been pressured into joining but actually disagree with a lot of what the unions say. I think you'll find there are a lot of teachers who have continued to go into work during all this and are quite happy to return in June.

Edited 14 May, 2020 by hypochondriac

That's not backed up with anything though is it? Kid comes down with a cold and passes it to parents / teacher.....that happens all the time; I've worked in schools where half the teaching staff are off sick from colds passed around by the pupils. Most kids are asymptomatic or mild at worst. Of course they can pass it on. More often than not COVID-19 is harmless and that's a fair statement but the numbers that have returned or are still in childcare or schooling isn't really a big enough sample to prove either way.

 

There's an easy solution really....wait until the death figure gets a bit below, say, 100 daily then think about re-opening otherwise it's just far too soon....or, as suggested, keep a local hotspot register then it can be monitored from area to area.

That's not backed up with anything though is it? Kid comes down with a cold and passes it to parents / teacher.....that happens all the time; I've worked in schools where half the teaching staff are off sick from colds passed around by the pupils. Most kids are asymptomatic or mild at worst. Of course they can pass it on. More often than not COVID-19 is harmless and that's a fair statement but the numbers that have returned or are still in childcare or schooling isn't really a big enough sample to prove either way.

 

There's an easy solution really....wait until the death figure gets a bit below, say, 100 daily then think about re-opening otherwise it's just far too soon....or, as suggested, keep a local hotspot register then it can be monitored from area to area.

Hold on so you're saying that OF COURSE children under ten can pass on covid 19 to adults? This is huge news. Presumably you have some evidence for this claim? At best it is not known, there's no of course about it. Edited 14 May, 2020 by hypochondriac

This one is interesting...usual stuff from the Daily Mail:

 

Shouldn’t the headline be “Let Our Teachers Be Martyrs”?

Hold on so you're saying that OF COURSE children under ten can pass on covid 19 to adults? This is huge news. Presumably you have some evidence for this claim? At best it is not known, there's no of course about it.

 

I'm not saying that now am I? You however said they cannot....also no evidence of that.

 

And Sadoldgit.......yup, I like how the daily mail are essentially trying to say all the teachers actively want to go back but the pesky unions are stopping them. I think we can all agree that's not the case whatsoever.

Clearly I don’t know all teachers, but the ones I do know do not want to go back until they feel that both the children and themselves are going to be relatively safe. The fact that it appears that the government have not consulted with either scientific experts or the unions seems to suggest that they are right to be concerned about the current plans to return.

There is not one single reported case in the world of transmission of covid between a child under ten and an adult. Young children cannot do social distancing and they should not be asked to. Sensible precautions should be taken by the adults and risk should be managed just like everyone else who is still working is doing. Early years settings and schools have stayed open albeit at lower capacity and as far as I am aware there have been no cases in these settings. Even nurseries in hospitals have reported no cases.

 

Lots of teacher unions and headteachers are making lots of noise about it being unsafe but have yet to come up with any solutions to make it more safe in their eyes. If they judge it unsafe now, at what point do they believe it will suddenly be safe again to the degree that they can open? Or are they proposing that schools stay shut for the 18 months to a year that it may take to possibly have a workable vaccine? Teachers unions don't speak for teachers, they speak on behalf of some teachers and also some who have been pressured into joining but actually disagree with a lot of what the unions say. I think you'll find there are a lot of teachers who have continued to go into work during all this and are quite happy to return in June.

 

Sounds like you’re repeating a line that FullFact recently investigated. Hopefully you’re not taking findings out of context and drawing the wrong conclusions (I’m not saying you necessarily are).

 

https://fullfact.org/health/children-transmitting-coronavirus/

Edited 15 May, 2020 by shurlock

Most of the parents I know of are bricking it having to send their kids back. It's the government who want them back so mummy and daddy can continue being good little taxpayers and earn their rich mates some money....

 

Yeah, let’s let them stay home until a cure or vaccine is found. May effect their future prospects, but who cares, it’s only evil Tories that benefit from an educated work force.

 

 

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Is that the woman who used to present Homes Under the Hammer, in an open marriage? I wonder if Dion is involved.

 

Ouch. After that, nothing else will do.

Clearly I don’t know all teachers, but the ones I do know do not want to go back until they feel that both the children and themselves are going to be relatively safe. The fact that it appears that the government have not consulted with either scientific experts or the unions seems to suggest that they are right to be concerned about the current plans to return.

 

What is relatively safe?

 

Even once a vaccine is finally found and a full program has been undertaken, the WHO still believe that the virus isn't going to disappear - take measles, mumps and rubella where there is a known vaccine that is freely available yet all three of those diseases still exist.

 

So, what constitutes safe?

Sounds like you’re repeating a line that FullFact recently investigated. Hopefully you’re not taking findings out of context and drawing the wrong conclusions (I’m not saying you necessarily are).

 

https://fullfact.org/health/children-transmitting-coronavirus/

 

Yeah, who would do such a stupid thing?

 

GDPR compliant alteration handed in his notice at 5pm at an informal meeting of the governors, who were heavily criticised for failing to act as a check on the corporation's "defective" journalistic practices.

 

Lord Hutton lambasted GDPR compliant alteration and his colleagues on the board for their failure to check the facts behind Andrew Gilligan's report and the speed with which they squared up to the government without first quizzing management on the merits of the story.

 

https://www.theguardian.com/media/2004/jan/28/davidkelly.hutton9

Ouch. After that, nothing else will do.

At least now she's got more room downstairs.

I've moved as much as I can be arsed, the Starmer stuff is all in the Labour thread.

 

Needs a punchier title like...

 

Sir Kier despite holidaying with Jimmy Saville leads Labour to the promised land

 

CB Fry will probably come up with something

Sounds like you’re repeating a line that FullFact recently investigated. Hopefully you’re not taking findings out of context and drawing the wrong conclusions (I’m not saying you necessarily are).

 

https://fullfact.org/health/children-transmitting-coronavirus/

No I'm fully aware of the findings because it relates directly to my job. Like I said, at worst there is no conclusive evidence and I haven't seen any source that has definitively shown that children can pass on the virus to adults. Of settings that have stayed open (quite a lot albeit with reduced numbers) there have been zero reported cases. There's obviously a risk, but the reaction from some teachers is absolutely absurd. The union is saying that social distancing "will be difficult to implement." That is obviously the case and it will be the case for the rest of the year. If some teachers are saying they will not come to school if you can't implement proper social distancing with 5 year olds then how do they propose to solve that problem? Why are some teachers saying they are happy to return if the daily death rate is below a certain level? Why are they suddenly experts on what is deemed a safe death level? Edited 15 May, 2020 by hypochondriac

I'm not saying that now am I? You however said they cannot....also no evidence of that.

 

And Sadoldgit.......yup, I like how the daily mail are essentially trying to say all the teachers actively want to go back but the pesky unions are stopping them. I think we can all agree that's not the case whatsoever.

Erm no I didn't. Where did I say "they cannot"? Please stop making up things it's tiresome.

No I'm fully aware of the findings because it relates directly to my job. Like I said, at worst there is no conclusive evidence and I haven't seen any source that has definitively shown that children can pass on the virus to adults. Of settings that have stayed open (quite a lot albeit with reduced numbers) there have been zero reported cases. There's obviously a risk, but the reaction from some teachers is absolutely absurd.

 

Thanks for the clarification. There are limitations to observational studies which might explain why index cases involve adults and children are underrepresented. It appears that children have similarly high viral loads as adults (see evidence from Germany/Cambridge) which if the case would counsel caution until the science is more firmly established and understood.

Edited 15 May, 2020 by shurlock

Thanks for the clarification. It appears that children have similarly high viral loads as adults which if the case would counsel caution until the science is more firmly established and understood.

Surely the caution bit is only allowing three year groups in at a time with possibly reduced numbers? It seems to me that some teachers want pupils permenently at home until a vaccine is found. Even if young children can transmit it, we are going to have to learn to live with that risk and manage it at some point since there is no workable alternative. Rather than moaning about feeling unsafe, unions would be better served coming up with very specific and practical plans that they feel would make them happier about a plan. Have you seen anything about exactly what they are asking for? Because I haven't. Asking the government to "make it safe" whilst providing no workable outline of what they actually want is idiotic. Edited 15 May, 2020 by hypochondriac