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Thread: Coronavirus Discussion Thread

  1. #851

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    Quote Originally Posted by verlaine1979 View Post
    If your business is small enough that you can operate as cash only, or not cross paths with anyone issuing VAT invoices or anything else that creates a paper trail, you're probably not earning enough to make a real dent by skimping on your taxes anyway.
    multiply that by a few thousand and it would make a difference though wouldnt it.

  2. #852

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    Quote Originally Posted by SW5 SAINT View Post
    To get back to football related discussion, I see the National League are expected to void the entire season later this week. If they do that then the rest of the leagues will almost certainly be obliged to follow suit. The only sensible course of action in my opinion.....
    Yes that gutting, my local team is Harrogate Town, i go there are fair bit now. They are having their best ever season, 2nd in the conference 3 points behind top with them to play at home in a few weeks and in the semi final of the FA Trophy. The double was most definitely on and promotion to L2 would be incredible. It is the right thing to do though.

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    Quote Originally Posted by wild-saint View Post
    Agreed, with the debt we will need to take on to survive and the undoubted recession that will follow i suspect we will be feeling pain for 10 years at least.

    My focus is to keep my business breathing for the next 6 months and ensure i get out the other side. I dont need to lay anyone off yet but no doubt that will come. What makes that harder is there is nothing out there for people you do lay off. Tough times ahead. the pressure on business owners is immense and im feeling the pressure of ensuring my team of 12 have a job.
    Serious question, genuinely curious - when you say lay them off do you mean permanently. If yes why, when you can furlough them and they get paid 80% of there wages by the Government?

  4. #854

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    Quote Originally Posted by stknowle View Post
    Serious question, genuinely curious - when you say lay them off do you mean permanently. If yes why, when you can furlough them and they get paid 80% of there wages by the Government?
    Yep. About 90 of my staff are now on furlough. Should be comfortable for at least three months with the government measures. May struggle if its extended to six

  5. #855

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    Quote Originally Posted by stknowle View Post
    Serious question, genuinely curious - when you say lay them off do you mean permanently. If yes why, when you can furlough them and they get paid 80% of there wages by the Government?
    he probably means lay them off down the line. The fall out of all this will be economically horrendous, I imagine

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    Quote Originally Posted by Batman View Post
    he probably means lay them off down the line. The fall out of all this will be economically horrendous, I imagine
    I thought maybe that was the case but await the answer. I'm not normally the optimistic type but as long as this doesn't drag on for months I think we can bounce back very quickly in terms of business activity. Noted though we'll be saddled with a load more debt as a Country which is massively unhelpful. Can't see those potholes getting repaired any time soon.

  7. #857

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    Quote Originally Posted by stknowle View Post
    I thought maybe that was the case but await the answer. I'm not normally the optimistic type but as long as this doesn't drag on for months I think we can bounce back very quickly in terms of business activity. Noted though we'll be saddled with a load more debt as a Country which is massively unhelpful. Can't see those potholes getting repaired any time soon.
    Hopefully, you are right.

    There was an economics professor on the radio earlier, highlighting that it is wonderful that the govt are really leaning in and helping the vast majority in business and society (more then ever in our history), but this will come with a massive cost.

    He went to to say that should this level of shutdown go on into the Autumn, then the the effect on our economy will be 'catastrophic' at best.

    It wont go on that long will it? Probably see the lock down lifted/premier league football in May........we hope!


  8. #859

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    Quote Originally Posted by East Kent Saint View Post
    Nothing surprises me with that bloke, an utter, utter tosser.

    One of the cretins of society. All about money money to him, nothing else important.

  9. #860

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    Quote Originally Posted by hypochondriac View Post
    Yep. About 90 of my staff are now on furlough. Should be comfortable for at least three months with the government measures. May struggle if its extended to six
    Hypo, have you found anything yet about how you will receive payments?

  10. #861

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    [QUOTE=stknowle;2812028]Serious question, genuinely curious - when you say lay them off do you mean permanently. If yes why, when you can furlough them and they get paid 80% of there wages by the Government?[/QUOTE

    Yes, you can furlough them and get 80% but that’s only 3 months. I’d only lay off staff if there was a longer term threat to my business as I have enough operational cash to keep it running through this lockdown. The problem with furloughed employees is that you keep them on but they aren’t allowed to work. Not sure if there are any conditions around any payments that I / staff receive.

    My business relies on annual contracts but already I’m having conversations with clients who need / want to save money so envisage a reduction in turnover.

  11. #862

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    The thing with voiding the season is that it is all about money.

    Cancelling next season (to finish off this one) would be far worse (tbf only Pool fans want this)

    They will definitely try to finish the season off somehow, and then my bet is next season will be modified as much as possible without leaving a financial dent i.e. remove replays/remove league cup/single legged European ties

    I think the PL will be missing out on £800m if they can’t finish the season off.

  12. #863

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    Perhaps we could finish the season in the autumn and start again in the new year. From now on just run seasons starting February until late October.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Whitey Grandad View Post
    Hypo, have you found anything yet about how you will receive payments?
    I believe we have to pay staff as normal and then get reimbursed by the government for 80% of wages. I was told this will be happening next month but it's all a bit wait and see at the moment.

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    [QUOTE=wild-saint;2812050]
    Quote Originally Posted by stknowle View Post
    Serious question, genuinely curious - when you say lay them off do you mean permanently. If yes why, when you can furlough them and they get paid 80% of there wages by the Government?[/QUOTE

    Yes, you can furlough them and get 80% but thatís only 3 months. Iíd only lay off staff if there was a longer term threat to my business as I have enough operational cash to keep it running through this lockdown. The problem with furloughed employees is that you keep them on but they arenít allowed to work. Not sure if there are any conditions around any payments that I / staff receive.

    My business relies on annual contracts but already Iím having conversations with clients who need / want to save money so envisage a reduction in turnover.
    That's an issue I have. Some of the staff have said that if it comes to it in an emergency situation that they will volunteer but I'm not sure where we stand on that legally.

  15. #866

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    Quote Originally Posted by Matthew Le God View Post
    To compare this to flu as Le Tissier and now you have is daft.

    Without any measures this virus is predicted to kill 500,000 in the UK. Without measures like social distancing etc flu does not get remotely close to that.

    Please watch this...





    Do you have anything even remotely coming to good evidence to support that?

    If you do... post them in this thread https://www.saintsweb.co.uk/showthre...s#.Xnj_6oj7SUk
    There won't be a country in the world who gets anywhere near 500k deaths.

  16. #867

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    [QUOTE=wild-saint;2812050]
    Quote Originally Posted by stknowle View Post
    Serious question, genuinely curious - when you say lay them off do you mean permanently. If yes why, when you can furlough them and they get paid 80% of there wages by the Government?[/QUOTE

    Yes, you can furlough them and get 80% but that’s only 3 months. I’d only lay off staff if there was a longer term threat to my business as I have enough operational cash to keep it running through this lockdown. The problem with furloughed employees is that you keep them on but they aren’t allowed to work. Not sure if there are any conditions around any payments that I / staff receive.

    My business relies on annual contracts but already I’m having conversations with clients who need / want to save money so envisage a reduction in turnover.
    Quote Originally Posted by hypochondriac View Post
    I believe we have to pay staff as normal and then get reimbursed by the government for 80% of wages. I was told this will be happening next month but it's all a bit wait and see at the moment.
    All I can find is this,which says “aiming to get it done before the end of April”

    https://www.businesssupport.gov.uk/c...ention-scheme/

    I have questions about other aspects such as pension contributions, auto-enrolment and suchlike.

  17. #868

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    It's an absolutely massive thing to basically make up in a week or two so I'm not surprised it's light on detail. My focus is on keeping my staff in a job and keeping them healthy and safe as much as possible. Currently I have enough resources to do that for the next three months then we will see what happens after that. I assume the employer will still have to pay everything like normal and the government just reimburses you for 80%. I hope so anyway.

  18. #869

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    Quote Originally Posted by hypochondriac View Post
    It's an absolutely massive thing to basically make up in a week or two so I'm not surprised it's light on detail. My focus is on keeping my staff in a job and keeping them healthy and safe as much as possible. Currently I have enough resources to do that for the next three months then we will see what happens after that. I assume the employer will still have to pay everything like normal and the government just reimburses you for 80%. I hope so anyway.
    Well they’ve had several weeks to prepare but it has to be done properly.

    Our problem is that we haven’t been able to ship any product so we have almost run out of liquidity. Components that we get from China still haven’t arrived because of the Chinese New Year and then lockdown. Getting transport for them is also difficult. FedEx and DHL won’t go near the factories.

    I’m especially interested in this £10,000 grant we are supposed to be getting through the Business Rates system but that has to be claimed through Eastleigh Borough Council so we have to wait for a letter from them first.

  19. #870

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    Quote Originally Posted by hypochondriac View Post
    It's an absolutely massive thing to basically make up in a week or two so I'm not surprised it's light on detail. My focus is on keeping my staff in a job and keeping them healthy and safe as much as possible. Currently I have enough resources to do that for the next three months then we will see what happens after that. I assume the employer will still have to pay everything like normal and the government just reimburses you for 80%. I hope so anyway.
    I had assumed the 20% was the shortfall the employee took for not working? So your staff will receive full pay?

  20. #871

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    Quote Originally Posted by whelk View Post
    I had assumed the 20% was the shortfall the employee took for not working? So your staff will receive full pay?
    That was my original thought but my understanding is that everyone gets full pay and 80% of it is subsidised. That's what my accountant said anyway. Happy to be told otherwise thoigh. Very difficult to know the truth in all this. Its really hard, I haven't ever had to make decisions loke this before.

  21. #872

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    Quote Originally Posted by whelk View Post
    I had assumed the 20% was the shortfall the employee took for not working? So your staff will receive full pay?
    Quote Originally Posted by hypochondriac View Post
    That was my original thought but my understanding is that everyone gets full pay and 80% of it is subsidised. That's what my accountant said anyway. Happy to be told otherwise thoigh. Very difficult to know the truth in all this. Its really hard, I haven't ever had to make decisions loke this before.
    When it was first announced I saw a mention that it was up to the employer to decide whether to continue paying the 20%.

  22. #873

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    Quote Originally Posted by Whitey Grandad View Post
    When it was first announced I saw a mention that it was up to the employer to decide whether to continue paying the 20%.
    Well I've got no idea. We have enough cash with no business rates and with less electricity, gas etc to pay everyone for the next three months but not sure after that. Let's hope we can have some semblence of normality from June for at least a little while.

  23. #874

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    Managed to speak to someone this morning. I've been told by HMRC that all tax liability is automatically deferred from 20th March until 20th June. Not sure if that includes NI for staff on furlough though. Still have to pay NEST pension contributions apparently.

  24. #875

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    Quote Originally Posted by hypochondriac View Post
    Managed to speak to someone this morning. I've been told by HMRC that all tax liability is automatically deferred from 20th March until 20th June. Not sure if that includes NI for staff on furlough though. Still have to pay NEST pension contributions apparently.
    Thanks, every snippet helps. One problem I have is that the person who handles the PAYE is one who would be furloughed. That is normally done as RTI through Sage Payroll so I assume there will be an update for that.

  25. #876

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    Quote Originally Posted by hypochondriac View Post
    Managed to speak to someone this morning. I've been told by HMRC that all tax liability is automatically deferred from 20th March until 20th June. Not sure if that includes NI for staff on furlough though. Still have to pay NEST pension contributions apparently.
    I have been given some info which says employers NI and Auto pension form part of the £2500 limit. I will be paying my staff 80% of their calculated payment. My staff are supply teachers so donít have employment contracts and some kind of average earnings will be used, donít know what yet.

    Hmrc are making some kind of portal for administering this and creating a way to pay employees.

    The other 20% has some moral question with paying or not, we could not afford to pay that and it is in our employees best interest for us to survive this and restart. If theyíre not working we have no income!! Our guys will be happy to receive the 80%, itís enough to tide them over until we get through this.

    Best of luck to everyone with a business at the moment, really tough times.

    To those criticising business owners as tax dodgers; my personal tax is very low but our business payed HMRC over £150k in tax last year through NI, PAYE, VAT and corporation tax. Lot more than I would in my old job and I earn less now.


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  26. #877

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    Quote Originally Posted by Whitey Grandad View Post
    Thanks, every snippet helps. One problem I have is that the person who handles the PAYE is one who would be furloughed. That is normally done as RTI through Sage Payroll so I assume there will be an update for that.
    That's a tough one. Our head admin person is one of the few we haven't put on furlough for that reason. Does someone else know how to do it? You could maybe do it unofficially. I think it's a bit dodgy with furlough but my hope is that there is a recognition of this emergency situation.

  27. #878

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    For those that are interested:

    Re job retention scheme, got the below link from my accountant yesterday. Seems the best explanation I have found so far..

    https://www.icaew.com/insights/viewp...lough-guidance


    Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

  28. #879

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    I'm just glad my wife is a teacher and will continue to get paid normally and that her job is safe when this all over. My work have told me not to come in for the foreseeable but I have no idea what will happen with my pay (not to mention the inevitable rumblings from management about redundancies). Thank goodness we have some reasonable savings put buy to help navigate all this. I could well see the family finances being worse off after all this. I imagine my ST will be one of the first causalities of the new reality.

  29. #880

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    Quote Originally Posted by wooley7 View Post
    For those that are interested:

    Re job retention scheme, got the below link from my accountant yesterday. Seems the best explanation I have found so far..

    https://www.icaew.com/insights/viewp...lough-guidance


    Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
    Thanks for that

  30. #881

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    Quote Originally Posted by wooley7 View Post
    For those that are interested:

    Re job retention scheme, got the below link from my accountant yesterday. Seems the best explanation I have found so far..

    https://www.icaew.com/insights/viewp...lough-guidance
    Very useful link. Many thanks.

  31. #882

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    Quote Originally Posted by wooley7 View Post
    For those that are interested:

    Re job retention scheme, got the below link from my accountant yesterday. Seems the best explanation I have found so far..

    https://www.icaew.com/insights/viewp...lough-guidance


    Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
    Thanks for this. I await the government’s offering.

    I might have to put myself on furlough too although I only get a pittance.

  32. #883

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    Quote Originally Posted by Whitey Grandad View Post
    Thanks for this. I await the governmentís offering.

    I might have to put myself on furlough too although I only get a pittance.
    Can you furlough yourself? I'm a company director and I wasn't sure.

  33. Default

    https://www.pkf-francisclark.co.uk/b...e-have-so-far/

    Here is another recent article. The problem for directors is that they must be completely non-active to qualify for the grant. That includes no administration work, no business related telephone calls, emails etc.

  34. #885

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    Quote Originally Posted by hypochondriac View Post
    Can you furlough yourself? I'm a company director and I wasn't sure.
    Im getting mixed stories on this. My wife will be furloughed on tuesday at the end of the month. She works for a electrical company all their jobs have been cancelled until further notice so the owner has basically shut down the business until this ends. Some people are saying shes okay others aren't as hes just effectively asking her to take an extended break.

  35. Default

    If she is not doing any business work she will be treated as a furloughed employee from the start of next month

  36. #887

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    Quote Originally Posted by hypochondriac View Post
    Can you furlough yourself? I'm a company director and I wasn't sure.
    I donít think you can but really, who knows. Should be something this afternoon for company directors, I hope!!


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  37. #888

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    Quote Originally Posted by Hyde and Seek View Post
    If she is not doing any business work she will be treated as a furloughed employee from the start of next month
    It can be backdated to the beginning of March, apparently.

  38. Default

    Quick question to anyone ITK....

    Can a company refuse to furlough an employee if they deem it's easier just to lay them off?

    My daughter was 'laid off' from her job in a bakery/cafe (due to the Corona Virus situation) a couple of weeks ago, just before the Job Retention Scheme was announced by the chancellor.

    She's about to go back to the cafe owner to deduce what they intend doing as far as furloughng is concerned but I'm pre-empting what they might say in my question above.
    Last edited by trousers; 26-03-2020 at 12:00 PM.

  39. Default

    Correct if she undertook no business work in March.

  40. #891

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    Quote Originally Posted by trousers View Post
    Quick question to anyone ITK....

    Can a company refuse to furlough an employee if they deem it's easier just to lay them off?

    My daughter was 'laid off' from her job in a bakery/cafe (due to the Corona Virus situation) a couple of weeks ago, just before the Job Retention Scheme was announced by the chancellor.

    She's about to go back to the cafe owner to deduce what they intend doing as far as furloughng is concerned but I'm pre-empting what they might say in my question above.
    I think it's unlikely that she can be put back on the payroll.

    I am looking at the Sage website now desperately seeking advice. This link gives some details:

    https://www.sage.com/en-gb/blog/coro...ob-anchor-link

    "Your workers need to be currently working in your business – and not have been laid off or made redundant – in order for you to access the scheme. If required, they can take on other jobs with other businesses; doing so won’t impact on this cover – but they can’t do any work for the employer who claims under the Coronavirus Job Retention Scheme."

    There is a webinar if anybody is interested.

    https://www.sage.com/en-gb/coronavirus/

  41. Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Whitey Grandad View Post
    I think it's unlikely that she can be put back on the payroll.

    I am looking at the Sage website now desperately seeking advice. This link gives some details:

    https://www.sage.com/en-gb/blog/coro...ob-anchor-link

    "Your workers need to be currently working in your business – and not have been laid off or made redundant – in order for you to access the scheme. If required, they can take on other jobs with other businesses; doing so won’t impact on this cover – but they can’t do any work for the employer who claims under the Coronavirus Job Retention Scheme."

    There is a webinar if anybody is interested.

    https://www.sage.com/en-gb/coronavirus/
    Cheers WG

    Hmm... that was my fear.... seems a tad unfair for employees who had to be laid off before the scheme was announced who would otherwise have been furloughed had the scheme existed. That said, AFAIK, the cafe owner has only 'informally' laid off the employees so they may not have informed HMRC yet and therefore not techincally off the payroll yet. Who knows. Let's see how it pans out.

  42. Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Jonnyboy View Post
    There won't be a country in the world who gets anywhere near 500k deaths.
    They are already starting to say today that the numbers have probably been over estimated. Meanwhile, the economy is wrecked and will take years to recover

  43. #894

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    Quote Originally Posted by trousers View Post
    Cheers WG

    Hmm... that was my fear.... seems a tad unfair for employees who had to be laid off before the scheme was announced who would otherwise have been furloughed had the scheme existed. That said, AFAIK, the cafe owner has only 'informally' laid off the employees so they may not have informed HMRC yet and therefore not techincally off the payroll yet. Who knows. Let's see how it pans out.
    If it is not formal yet then I suspect she will have a chance.

    These are difficult times for all of us.

  44. Default

    Quote Originally Posted by hypochondriac View Post
    That was my original thought but my understanding is that everyone gets full pay and 80% of it is subsidised. That's what my accountant said anyway. Happy to be told otherwise thoigh. Very difficult to know the truth in all this. Its really hard, I haven't ever had to make decisions loke this before.
    Not sure they even knew when they announced it/know now but I was under the impression that they get 80% from Gov't then up to employer to top up or not. Taking a 20% hit seems a more than reasonable alternative to losing your job altogether.

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    Quote Originally Posted by davefoggy View Post
    They are already starting to say today that the numbers have probably been over estimated. Meanwhile, the economy is wrecked and will take years to recover
    Numbers will be lower due to the actions taken. Would you have preferred we did very little and allowed it to claim thousands more, many of whose deaths could have been entirely prevented? What price a life?

  46. #897

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    Quote Originally Posted by stknowle View Post
    Not sure they even knew when they announced it/know now but I was under the impression that they get 80% from Gov't then up to employer to top up or not. Taking a 20% hit seems a more than reasonable alternative to losing your job altogether.
    We are paying everyone 100% for March as we got all our income a month in advance. We now have a month to decide what we are doing next month. Going to look at it and make the decision as we will have to go through everyone manually and make the changes.

  47. #898

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    Quote Originally Posted by davefoggy View Post
    They are already starting to say today that the numbers have probably been over estimated. Meanwhile, the economy is wrecked and will take years to recover
    Who are 'they'?

  48. #899

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    Quote Originally Posted by Matthew Le God View Post
    Who are 'they'?
    Professor Neil Ferguson for one.

  49. Default

    Quote Originally Posted by hypochondriac View Post
    We are paying everyone 100% for March as we got all our income a month in advance. We now have a month to decide what we are doing next month. Going to look at it and make the decision as we will have to go through everyone manually and make the changes.
    Good luck with it all, seriously. I run a business with 1 employee (me) I'd hate to have to deal with all that on top of all the personal worry we're all suffering as well.

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