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Thread: Premier Football to restart?

  1. #101

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    Quote Originally Posted by bpsaint View Post
    Oh yeah VAR - for a blissful while there I forgot that it existed. Damn you Shroppie
    Oh bugger!

    And without a crowd they could take as long as they wanted over each decision

  2. #102

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    Football won’t be returning this season

  3. #103

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    Quote Originally Posted by Whitey Grandad View Post
    Oh bugger!

    And without a crowd they could take as long as they wanted over each decision
    Yeah! And they could shove in an ad break..

    I was reading about the plan in an Italian newspaper: The two Manchester stadia, West Ham, Arsenal, Leicester, Aston Villa, Brighton and Southampton are the listed grounds, plus talk of other rules, no spitting, no post exercise massages, training in masks, twice a week tests.. etc.!

  4. #104

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    Quote Originally Posted by Shroppie View Post
    Exactly how will the restart of football put money directly in the NHS coffers?

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    If they donít play they wonít get any TV money, take the TV money out of the Prem and itís ****ed and the taxman will lose out.

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    Quote Originally Posted by suewhistle View Post
    Yeah! And they could shove in an ad break..

    I was reading about the plan in an Italian newspaper: The two Manchester stadia, West Ham, Arsenal, Leicester, Aston Villa, Brighton and Southampton are the listed grounds, plus talk of other rules, no spitting, no post exercise massages, training in masks, twice a week tests.. etc.!
    I'm sure that'll make the world of difference, when you get 10 corners per game and there're 16 players having a mosh in the 6 yard box, all panting over each other like a bunch of sex pests.

  6. #106

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    Quote Originally Posted by Lighthouse View Post
    I'm sure that'll make the world of difference, when you get 10 corners per game and there're 16 players having a mosh in the 6 yard box, all panting over each other like a bunch of sex pests.
    You do realise they wonít be infected in your homoerotic fantasy?

  7. #107

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    Quote Originally Posted by whelk View Post
    You do realise they won’t be infected in your homoerotic fantasy?
    Well which is it? You are way, way more likely to transmit the virus (heavily) breathing the same air as 15 other guys in an enclosed space than you are having a massage or spitting on the floor. What's the point? If they do that they're basically saying they know it's not safe but here's a token gesture which sort of looks like we're trying to mitigate risks. If they're going to play games then do it. Accept that you're eventually going to spread the virus around a few hundred people and probably kill a handful and admit it.

    I just can't stand the fact that they're doing this - basically saying a few deaths are okay so that Sky, the PL and a few Sheikhs don't lose money - whilst sticking their heads in the sand and pretending they've taken every precaution.

  8. #108

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    Quote Originally Posted by Lighthouse View Post
    Well which is it? You are way, way more likely to transmit the virus (heavily) breathing the same air as 15 other guys in an enclosed space than you are having a massage or spitting on the floor. What's the point? If they do that they're basically saying they know it's not safe but here's a token gesture which sort of looks like we're trying to mitigate risks. If they're going to play games then do it. Accept that you're eventually going to spread the virus around a few hundred people and probably kill a handful and admit it.

    I just can't stand the fact that they're doing this - basically saying a few deaths are okay so that Sky, the PL and a few Sheikhs don't lose money - whilst sticking their heads in the sand and pretending they've taken every precaution.
    Do you also think there will be a few deaths at every B & Q, Sainsburyís that open?
    Can you not comprehend that the virus isnít magic?

  9. #109

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    Quote Originally Posted by Lighthouse View Post
    Well which is it? You are way, way more likely to transmit the virus (heavily) breathing the same air as 15 other guys in an enclosed space than you are having a massage or spitting on the floor. What's the point? If they do that they're basically saying they know it's not safe but here's a token gesture which sort of looks like we're trying to mitigate risks. If they're going to play games then do it. Accept that you're eventually going to spread the virus around a few hundred people and probably kill a handful and admit it.

    I just can't stand the fact that they're doing this - basically saying a few deaths are okay so that Sky, the PL and a few Sheikhs don't lose money - whilst sticking their heads in the sand and pretending they've taken every precaution.
    You're going to absolutely lose your sh it when every single hairdressers in the United Kingdom are back open. 40,000 of them. Despicable people basically saying a few deaths are okay so they don't lose their filthy money running their so-called "businesses" cutting and styling so called "hair". Worse than murderers.

  10. #110

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    Quote Originally Posted by whelk View Post
    Do you also think there will be a few deaths at every B & Q, Sainsbury’s that open?
    Can you not comprehend that the virus isn’t magic?
    Collectively, yes. The more people that come into contact with each other the more people are going to die. Shops won’t be anywhere near as bad as football but there will be transmissions. Eventually it will be a trade off between deaths and the economy but if you ask me June is too soon.

    After over a month of social distancing, hand sanitising, etc. we’ve managed to record nearly 5,000 new cases today and over 600 deaths, so magic or no magic, it’s finding a way to get around somehow.

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    Quote Originally Posted by CB Fry View Post
    You're going to absolutely lose your sh it when every single hairdressers in the United Kingdom are back open. 40,000 of them. Despicable people basically saying a few deaths are okay so they don't lose their filthy money running their so-called "businesses" cutting and styling so called "hair". Worse than murderers.
    You can be flippant all you want but I’ve no idea what point you’re making. You’re the one in The Lounge criticising the governments response and pointing out that we’ve now overtaken the rest of Europe. Now you’re saying we should crack on with pretty much the highest risk activity there is, barely a month from now.

    Yes, eventually we will have to open business but this is a ludicrous way to start. You can open a hairdressers and reduce the risk of transmission with masks, disinfectant, distancing between customers etc.

  12. #112

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    Quote Originally Posted by Lighthouse View Post
    Now you’re saying we should crack on with pretty much the highest risk activity there is, barely a month from now.
    Now you are just talking nonsense.

    1. They are all going to be tested regularly. 2. They are all fit young men so will be very low risk anyway.

    Fat or old people wondering around BnQ will be taking a much bigger risk just to do some pointless DIY.

  13. #113

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    Even if they do play again it may be slightly farcical. No way players will be anywhere near as fit as before and no match fitness or practice,
    Possibly not the best way to decide relegation issues.
    Actually I've realised I don't miss football very much anymore, but I'm really going to miss watching my son play good village cricket and my annual Scarborough Cricket festival with my cousin.

  14. #114

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    Quote Originally Posted by Lighthouse View Post
    You can be flippant all you want but Iíve no idea what point youíre making. Youíre the one in The Lounge criticising the governments response and pointing out that weíve now overtaken the rest of Europe. Now youíre saying we should crack on with pretty much the highest risk activity there is, barely a month from now.

    Yes, eventually we will have to open business but this is a ludicrous way to start. You can open a hairdressers and reduce the risk of transmission with masks, disinfectant, distancing between customers etc.
    That's funny I don't recall anyone, anywhere, at all, saying that the easing of restrictions should "start" with Premier League football matches. Do show me who has suggested this. I'm not saying we should "crack on" with anything sweetheart.

    But it is interesting you have quite a blasŤ attitude about 40,000 locations of hairdressers, let's say 4 staff per outlet, 10 customers a day six days a week - millions of people, all touching each other, every day. But yeah, you seem super glib about that. Coupla masks, bit of distancing, splash of disinfectant. No probs. There's not going to be any variation in standards there, that's for sure.

    Compare that to a few locations in the country where 50 people, all tested in a controlled and highly monitored environment, plus a supporting workforce smaller than a typical garden centre, an Amazon warehouse or food factory that could all socially distance just as well as a hairdresser in Barnsley can.

    I think you can criticize parts of the government's approach without going into hysterical meltdown about some behind closed doors football matches being played at an appropriate time once restrictions are lifted. It's not "the highest risk activity there is". Jesus effing wept.
    Last edited by CB Fry; 02-05-2020 at 11:10 PM.

  15. #115

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    Quote Originally Posted by aintforever View Post
    Now you are just talking nonsense.

    1. They are all going to be tested regularly. 2. They are all fit young men so will be very low risk anyway.

    Fat or old people wondering around BnQ will be taking a much bigger risk just to do some pointless DIY.
    1. That doesn't stop you picking up the virus or or transmitting it to someone else before your next test. By the time you actually test positive, you could have given it to half the rest of the squad, the coach driver, officials, hotel and restaurant staff and a bunch of people who used the Tesco self checkout after you.

    2. I can't believe this has to be repeated again but we're not trying to protect them as such. We're trying to protect those who are vulnerable, who the virus could be passed on to.

    3. Their DIY may seem pointless to you but your football seems pointless to them. Nobody's hobby is any more or less valid than any other.

  16. #116

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    Quote Originally Posted by CB Fry View Post
    That's funny I don't recall anyone, anywhere, at all, saying that the easing of restrictions should "start" with Premier League football matches. Do show me who has suggested this. I'm not saying we should "crack on" with anything sweetheart.

    But it is interesting you have quite a blasŤ attitude about 40,000 locations of hairdressers, let's say 4 staff per outlet, 10 customers a day six days a week - millions of people, all touching each other, every day. But yeah, you seem super glib about that. Coupla masks, bit of distancing, splash of disinfectant. No probs. There's not going to be any variation in standards there, that's for sure.

    Compare that to a few locations in the country where 50 people, all tested in a controlled and highly monitored environment, plus a supporting workforce smaller than a typical garden centre, an Amazon warehouse or food factory that could all socially distance just as well as a hairdresser in Barnsley can.

    I think you can criticize parts of the government's approach without going into hysterical meltdown about some behind closed doors football matches being played at an appropriate time once restrictions are lifted. It's not "the highest risk activity there is". Jesus effing wept.
    TBH I can't be arsed with that much patronising sarcasm. If you think we should be playing football tournaments in June then we've apparently reached a difference of opinion. Goodnight.

  17. #117

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    Quote Originally Posted by Lighthouse View Post
    TBH I can't be arsed with that much patronising sarcasm. If you think we should be playing football tournaments in June then we've apparently reached a difference of opinion. Goodnight.
    Someone calling a few behind closed doors football matches "the highest risk activity there is" deserves to be patronised.

    All I think is that the current lockdown measures will not remain in place completely the same as now for the entirety of the month of June, and that the lifting of restrictions will not be determined by waiting for zero people to be dying of Coronavirus.

    Things are a little bit more complicated than that.
    Last edited by CB Fry; 03-05-2020 at 06:56 AM.

  18. #118

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    I'm with you, Lighthouse.

    The more you think about the logistics of neutral ground, locked door matches with all players, officials, medical, security, media and other backroom staff tested at least twice and kept in total isolation before, after and between matches, the more obvious it is that this is ridiculous. And that's before you add in the reports of players refusing to do it for fear of carrying infection back to families and injuring their own health.

    It's just desperation over money that's making them talk about it. I still think they know it can't happen, but have to demonstrate that they've tried. My guess is the number of clubs opposing it will steadily grow until the idea is abandoned.

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    I think desperation over money is going to be a big part in any business making decisions in the next 1-8 weeks. Football won't be alone in thinking that they need to generate some revenue.

    I am still completely perplexed as to why we are thinking about releasing lockdown. When we went into lockdown on 19th March, we had had a period of 500-600 new cases per day with a daily death rate in the 30-40s. Here we are 7-8 weeks later, daily new cases are 5-6k, daily deaths still 500+ and we are happy to try to head back to normality.

    I would be entirely satisfied (and not perplexed) if the Government turned around and said, "we're heading back to the new normality and the public can expect 500 people per day to die, until such point that we reach the promised land of herd immunity or a vaccine is avaliable".

    But if we're adding 5,000 new cases daily and we remove elements of lockdown, it would be reasonable to suggest that number increases, rather than decreases.

    It just doesn't make sense to me.

  22. #122

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    Quote Originally Posted by skintsaint View Post
    Good - he makes a good argument too. Hopefully a few other teams pipe up now and the whole thing just gets voided.

  23. #123

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    Quote Originally Posted by CB Fry View Post
    Someone calling a few behind closed doors football matches "the highest risk activity there is" deserves to be patronised.

    All I think is that the current lockdown measures will not remain in place completely the same as now for the entirety of the month of June, and that the lifting of restrictions will not be determined by waiting for zero people to be dying of Coronavirus.

    Things are a little bit more complicated than that.
    I honestly can't think of anything worse than football for virus transmission. Some other sports, like a rugby scrum, sure but nothing you or I are going to do on the high street. Zero distancing, zero face protection, plenty of physical contact, maximum exhaling of aerosols into a confined area.

    You can't even compare this with hairdressers. For a start we're talking 160,000 jobs, which are mainly young women on minimum-ish wage. They need to go back to work to pay the rent, we don't need to finish this season, it's purely about broadcasters and shareholders keeping their nose in the trough. We can open hairdressers and minimise the risks. We can't eliminate them, people will die because someone went for a haircut. That's a fact of life we have to live with now.

    I think in another month or two we should be bringing SOME normality back. Open shops, hairdressers, banks etc. but with social distancing and masks, much like we have in supermarkets. Send kids back to school, let them see their friends and finish their exams. Things like this all need to be slowly introduced before football, then we need a few months of monitoring the rates of infections and deaths. It's never going to get to zero, Pandora's Box has been opened. What we need is to slowly open the tap at a rate the NHS can cope with for a sustained period. When I say 'cope with' I mean deal with the Covid 19 patients AND start carrying out some of the deferred operations who've been told to stay away the last couple of months.

    I am with you Fry, just not on the timing. We MIGHT be able to pull off an on time start to next season, with a lot of the precautions being discussed. I can't see many bars and restaurants being open before then either.

  24. #124

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    I hope we learn from this and reduce the motorway speed limit to 20mph. Will save some lives so worth it.

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    Quote Originally Posted by whelk View Post
    I hope we learn from this and reduce the motorway speed limit to 20mph. Will save some lives so worth it.
    Again, a completely false equivalence. Having motorways at 70mph is a necessary part of life, if it was 20 the entirely logistics industry would grind to a halt. We wouldn't be able to stack supermarkets, commute to London etc. Aside from the fact that British motorways are already some of the safest roads in the world, driving that speed is a necessary 'evil'. A month of football just isn't.
    Last edited by Lighthouse; 03-05-2020 at 10:02 AM.

  27. #127

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    Quote Originally Posted by Lighthouse View Post
    Again, a completely false equivalency. Having motorways at 70mph is a necessary part of life, if it was 20 the entirely logistics industry would grind to a halt. We wouldn't be able to stack supermarkets, commute to London etc. Aside from the fact that British motorways are already some of the safest roads in the world, driving that speed is a necessary 'evil'. A month of football just isn't.
    Rubbish, would just be safer and slower. Oh and far more expensive

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    Quote Originally Posted by Lighthouse View Post

    I just can't stand the fact that they're doing this - basically saying a few deaths are okay so that Sky, the PL and a few Sheikhs don't lose money - whilst sticking their heads in the sand and pretending they've taken every precaution.
    If the maximum speed limit on any road was 20mph, weíd probably cut deaths caused by car accidents to a handful a year. By your logic society is saying over 1,700 deaths is ok because you can get to places quicker.

    People die doing things that they strictly donít need to. Flying, mountaineering, sailing, driving. How many people extra are going to die because football is being played behind closed doors? The whole things been blown out of all proportion, and I speak as someone who lost a loved one to this virus. If football never restarted nobody would ever die because of it. Nobody would suffer a heart attack in the ground, nobody would have an accident travelling to the match, nobody will drink too much watching Super Sunday in the pub, nobody will bang their head fighting rival supporters.

    There isnít any safe activity whilst this virus is around, unless you want people to stay indoors permanently, youíre saying a few deaths are ok. Why can you stand that, but not football being played?


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  29. #129

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    Quote Originally Posted by Lighthouse View Post
    Again, a completely false equivalence. Having motorways at 70mph is a necessary part of life, if it was 20 the entirely logistics industry would grind to a halt. We wouldn't be able to stack supermarkets, commute to London etc. Aside from the fact that British motorways are already some of the safest roads in the world, driving that speed is a necessary 'evil'. A month of football just isn't.
    I think it's pretty dangerous to accuse others of false equivalence when you have said that some behind closed doors football matches is the highest risk activity you can think of in relation to this virus, especially when the things you are prepared to support (millions of different people going to the hairdressers) is unequivocally, statistically, epidemiologically and in absolute terms massively much more of a risk.

  30. #130

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    Quote Originally Posted by Lord Duckhunter View Post
    If the maximum speed limit on any road was 20mph, we’d probably cut deaths caused by car accidents to a handful a year. By your logic society is saying over 1,700 deaths is ok because you can get to places quicker.

    People die doing things that they strictly don’t need to. Flying, mountaineering, sailing, driving. How many people extra are going to die because football is being played behind closed doors? The whole things been blown out of all proportion, and I speak as someone who lost a loved one to this virus. If football never restarted nobody would ever die because of it. Nobody would suffer a heart attack in the ground, nobody would have an accident travelling to the match, nobody will drink too much watching Super Sunday in the pub, nobody will bang their head fighting rival supporters.

    There isn’t any safe activity whilst this virus is around, unless you want people to stay indoors permanently, you’re saying a few deaths are ok. Why can you stand that, but not football being played?


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    1. It's not okay, it is necessary. The country would literally cease to function if the motorway speed limit was 20mph. It's a stupid straw man and I'm not willing to discuss it further.

    2. You can't compare that either, there's a risk to other people. If you fall off a cliff or stick a glider into a mountain and do yourself in, that's up to you. If people were crashing gliders into care homes every week and killing a couple of old dears watching countdown, then they would probably be closed down.

    3. At no point have I said never restart it. We should and we will, next season at some point. Not now though, whilst there are still over 600 deaths being recorded each day.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Lighthouse View Post
    3. Their DIY may seem pointless to you but your football seems pointless to them. Nobody's hobby is any more or less valid than any other.
    Exactly, B&Q is already open, we’re talking about playing a few football matches in over 1 months time.

    If half the Premier league clubs go bust (which they probably will do without TV money) the NHS will suffer more through lack of tax revenue than in the unlikely event that someone gets hospitalised because of this.

    Sooner or later we are just going to crack on with our lives as usual and accept that some people will die from Coronavirus, just like we accept that people die in car crashes, smoking and from other diseases.

  32. #132

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    For me, the idea of professional football being played behind closed doors is ridiculous and I won’t be paying to watch it.

    Any debate about whether or not it is safe is therefore in my view a pointless argument.

  33. #133

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    Quote Originally Posted by aintforever View Post
    Exactly, B&Q is already open, we’re talking about playing a few football matches in over 1 months time.

    If half the Premier league clubs go bust (which they probably will do without TV money) the NHS will suffer more through lack of tax revenue than in the unlikely event that someone gets hospitalised because of this.

    Sooner or later we are just going to crack on with our lives as usual and accept that some people will die from Coronavirus, just like we accept that people die in car crashes, smoking and from other diseases.
    That has been my view all along. It’s possible that as you get older and older you value what time you have left more and more.

  34. #134

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    Quote Originally Posted by CB Fry View Post
    I think it's pretty dangerous to accuse others of false equivalence when you have said that some behind closed doors football matches is the highest risk activity you can think of in relation to this virus, especially when the things you are prepared to support (millions of different people going to the hairdressers) is unequivocally, statistically, epidemiologically and in absolute terms massively much more of a risk.
    We're going round in circles now, so I'll give it one last go...

    Hairdressers are about jobs for people on low income with mouths to feed and rent to pay. They NEED their jobs and the longer we try and prop them up with the JRS, the more damage we do to the economy. Finishing this season is not necessary, it's purely driven by greed from some of the richest people and organisations in the World. This is about Sheikhs and investment conglomerates not wanting to miss out on their share of the prize money and TV revenue.

    If it's just the Premier League, they probably would spread fewer cases but that's only because there are 1,000 people involved instead of 160,000 hairdressers. Then what? If the PL starts up again, what about the rest of the FL? Rugby? Cricket? Athletics? Why can't go back to my gym and sit in the steam room with half a dozen strangers, so long as I get tested the day after?

    Your argument is based around allowing something dangerous and unethical but it being okay so long as it's only a small number of people get that privilege. If you want to stick to the motorway analogy, which would you prefer, given choice; a) Everyone drives at 70 like they do now and a couple of thousand people get killed. b) Everyone drives at 20 but I am allowed to drink drive at 130mph. The answers got to be b, right? I'd probably only kill about 5 people, that's way better than two thousand.

    If it's a straight choice between opening up the PL or hairdressers then the PL is less than 0.5% of the number of people going back to work.

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    The key is to keep the re-infection number below 1.0.

    If you can do that then the infection will gradually die out. At the moment it's between 0.9 and 0.6.

    If restrictions are eased and it creeps up above 1.0, the lockdown will have to be re-imposed. So it makes sense not to do anything that may increase re-infection.

    The rush to resume football is all about money. Void the season and start again in late summer assuming that the infection rate is still declining.

  36. #136

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    Quote Originally Posted by ecuk268 View Post
    The key is to keep the re-infection number below 1.0.

    If you can do that then the infection will gradually die out. At the moment it's between 0.9 and 0.6.

    If restrictions are eased and it creeps up above 1.0, the lockdown will have to be re-imposed. So it makes sense not to do anything that may increase re-infection.

    The rush to resume football is all about money. Void the season and start again in late summer assuming that the infection rate is still declining.
    But pumping out entertainment into people's homes can encourage them to stay at home. That is part of the thinking behind getting football back up and running. The government are supporting activities like this for that reason.

    It's a bit strange people don't understand that.

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    Quote Originally Posted by aintforever View Post
    Exactly, B&Q is already open, weíre talking about playing a few football matches in over 1 months time.

    If half the Premier league clubs go bust (which they probably will do without TV money) the NHS will suffer more through lack of tax revenue than in the unlikely event that someone gets hospitalised because of this.

    Sooner or later we are just going to crack on with our lives as usual and accept that some people will die from Coronavirus, just like we accept that people die in car crashes, smoking and from other diseases.
    You really don't seem to be in the real world.

    No way will half the PL clubs go bust. I assume you're working on the model that they have to continue paying ridiculous wages in an unsustainable model. At some point there will be a challenge to the absolute power of players to demand whatever they want. Faced with big wage cuts or no wage, because there are no clubs to pay them, things will change, and not before time.

    The players' God-given right to be paid in full whatever happens has to collapse at some point: it's not sustainable. And now is as likely a time as any for reality to kick in.

    It also appears that you feel you're at minimal risk so you're not worried, even though you might be asymptomatic but infect and possibly kill others. And you're clearly not going to worry about others if protecting them deprives you of football.

    Perspective is needed. Football doesn't really matter at the moment.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Shroppie View Post
    You really don't seem to be in the real world.

    No way will half the PL clubs go bust. I assume you're working on the model that they have to continue paying ridiculous wages in an unsustainable model. At some point there will be a challenge to the absolute power of players to demand whatever they want. Faced with big wage cuts or no wage, because there are no clubs to pay them, things will change, and not before time.

    The players' God-given right to be paid in full whatever happens has to collapse at some point: it's not sustainable. And now is as likely a time as any for reality to kick in.

    It also appears that you feel you're at minimal risk so you're not worried, even though you might be asymptomatic but infect and possibly kill others. And you're clearly not going to worry about others if protecting them deprives you of football.

    Perspective is needed. Football doesn't really matter at the moment.

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    It’s you that is not in the real world. Premier league clubs are buying testing machines that give results in 2.5 hours. Given that the players will be in strict lockdown in between, tested regularly and be in an expertly controlled sterile environment, AND are low risk symptom wise - the risks should be easily below what will be required in over a months time IMO.

  39. #139

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    Quote Originally Posted by Lighthouse View Post
    We're going round in circles now, so I'll give it one last go...

    Hairdressers are about jobs for people on low income with mouths to feed and rent to pay. They NEED their jobs and the longer we try and prop them up with the JRS, the more damage we do to the economy. Finishing this season is not necessary, it's purely driven by greed from some of the richest people and organisations in the World. This is about Sheikhs and investment conglomerates not wanting to miss out on their share of the prize money and TV revenue.

    If it's just the Premier League, they probably would spread fewer cases but that's only because there are 1,000 people involved instead of 160,000 hairdressers. Then what? If the PL starts up again, what about the rest of the FL? Rugby? Cricket? Athletics? Why can't go back to my gym and sit in the steam room with half a dozen strangers, so long as I get tested the day after?

    Your argument is based around allowing something dangerous and unethical but it being okay so long as it's only a small number of people get that privilege. If you want to stick to the motorway analogy, which would you prefer, given choice; a) Everyone drives at 70 like they do now and a couple of thousand people get killed. b) Everyone drives at 20 but I am allowed to drink drive at 130mph. The answers got to be b, right? I'd probably only kill about 5 people, that's way better than two thousand.

    If it's a straight choice between opening up the PL or hairdressers then the PL is less than 0.5% of the number of people going back to work.
    We're going round in circles because you don't understand how this virus actually works.

    Once you've opened up every single hairdressers in Britain, once you've decided to take that risk - which you are quite happy with - then the additional risk of putting on some football matches behind closed doors is statistically jack sh it.

    There are millions of people in and out of hairdressers and garden centres and DIY shops and bookshops but that's all fine as long as you can make some "principles" point about an activity involving only hundreds of people, not millions and millions of people. Crystal clear.

    Your only actual objection to Premier League football is money is evil and TV companies are evil and the owners are evil and football is evil. But all of this was exactly the same three months ago. So maybe ask yourself what are you doing on a Premier League football club fans forum and supporting such an industry that you seem to object to so much?

  40. #140

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    Quote Originally Posted by aintforever View Post
    Itís you that is not in the real world. Premier league clubs are buying testing machines that give results in 2.5 hours. Given that the players will be in strict lockdown in between, tested regularly and be in an expertly controlled sterile environment, AND are low risk symptom wise - the risks should be easily below what will be required in over a months time IMO.
    Small problems are that the tests aren't 100% reliable, players are rebelling at the thought of lockdown between games, other people will be involved and it will be pretty-well impossible to keep them isolated, all kit and equipment will need total sanitisation before and after games and every time anyone involved in any game is in contact with anyone or anything from the outside world, everyone will need retesting, at least twice.

    And one positive test blows the whole thing apart.

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  41. #141

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    Quote Originally Posted by CB Fry View Post
    We're going round in circles because you don't understand how this virus actually works.

    Once you've opened up every single hairdressers in Britain, once you've decided to take that risk - which you are quite happy with - then the additional risk of putting on some football matches behind closed doors is statistically jack sh it.

    There are millions of people in and out of hairdressers and garden centres and DIY shops and bookshops but that's all fine as long as you can make some "principles" point about an activity involving only hundreds of people, not millions and millions of people. Crystal clear.

    Your only actual objection to Premier League football is money is evil and TV companies are evil and the owners are evil and football is evil. But all of this was exactly the same three months ago. So maybe ask yourself what are you doing on a Premier League football club fans forum and supporting such an industry that you seem to object to so much?
    We aren't ready to lift any restrictions yet but when we do it's about risk versus reward. What's going to help the country most and what can we do to minimise risks. Opening shops and other businesses, when we have infections down to a sustainable level, will put hundreds of thousands of people back to work so they can pay their bills. The massive amount of good it will do will balance out against the increase in cases and deaths. It's grim but it's the new reality.

    People need jobs. They don't need football, most people in the country wont even watch it. It's a needless risk. If someone I loved died because a single mum reopened her beauty salon to put food on her kids plates, I could cope with that from a moral POV. If they died because the Marquis of somewhere invited a hundred of his Eton chums around for a polo tournament, I'd be livid.

    That's how I see it. If it's different for you, then we'll have to agree to disagree.

  42. #142

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    Quote Originally Posted by Shroppie View Post
    Small problems are that the tests aren't 100% reliable, players are rebelling at the thought of lockdown between games, other people will be involved and it will be pretty-well impossible to keep them isolated, all kit and equipment will need total sanitisation before and after games and every time anyone involved in any game is in contact with anyone or anything from the outside world, everyone will need retesting, at least twice.

    And one positive test blows the whole thing apart.

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    How can you possibly work out the risks without even seeing the proposed plans in detail?

  43. #143

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    Quote Originally Posted by Lighthouse View Post

    People need jobs. They don't need football, most people in the country wont even watch it. It's a needless risk. If someone I loved died because a single mum reopened her beauty salon to put food on her kids plates, I could cope with that from a moral POV. If they died because the Marquis of somewhere invited a hundred of his Eton chums around for a polo tournament, I'd be livid.

    That's how I see it. If it's different for you, then we'll have to agree to disagree.
    That’s a bullsh!t reason, there are many jobs of ordinary people that rely on professional sport.

  44. #144

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    Quote Originally Posted by Lighthouse View Post
    We aren't ready to lift any restrictions yet but when we do it's about risk versus reward. What's going to help the country most and what can we do to minimise risks. Opening shops and other businesses, when we have infections down to a sustainable level, will put hundreds of thousands of people back to work so they can pay their bills. The massive amount of good it will do will balance out against the increase in cases and deaths. It's grim but it's the new reality.

    People need jobs. They don't need football, most people in the country wont even watch it. It's a needless risk. If someone I loved died because a single mum reopened her beauty salon to put food on her kids plates, I could cope with that from a moral POV. If they died because the Marquis of somewhere invited a hundred of his Eton chums around for a polo tournament, I'd be livid.

    That's how I see it. If it's different for you, then we'll have to agree to disagree.
    Are you perpetually livid at all the other thousands of unfair deaths that happen around the world on a daily basis?

    This lockdown has made people mental.

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    Quote Originally Posted by aintforever View Post
    How can you possibly work out the risks without even seeing the proposed plans in detail?
    The point is there aren't any detailed proposed plans. As soon as they get into detail, this will all fall apart.

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    Quote Originally Posted by whelk View Post
    Are you perpetually livid at all the other thousands of unfair deaths that happen around the world on a daily basis?

    This lockdown has made people mental.
    I agree. There has not been just a pandemic of Covid-19 virus but another one of mass hysteria, one that causes people to lose a sense of proportion.

  47. #147

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    No government details for slow removal of restrictions has yet been given. Yet we are arguing like children over the possible slow return to sport being allowed to resume, albeit in a far different guise as likely to be behind closed doors. I would welcome a return to televised sport such as football and horse racing being shown freely on terrestrial tv. If, and only if, extreme precaution was seen to be used. Yes we need to think about returning to as normal a life as is possible but all in good time.
    Being stuck indoors for a minimum of 12 weeks because of health and age it would help me while away so many hours of boredom.

  48. #148

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    Why do so many people seem to regard the lockdown as an imposition when it's whole purpose is to shield people of all ages from Covid-19 and save lives and not just the lives of "fat, old people" as one of our more articulate intellectual contributors has suggested. People of all age groups are dying and not just people with underlying health conditions. The virus is a killer as we see every single day in the simply appalling death figures even with the lockdown. Every death is an untimely, horrific and lonely experience for those affected. Lockdown is not a game, without it the situation in the UK would be catastrophic.

    Talk of "getting back to normal" is premature, motivated as always by money. Talk of the resumption of PL football is a frivolous, unprincipled and selfish distraction from this grim new reality. Resolve and patience is needed until scientists find solutions that work effectively to reduce the lethality of this virus to the status of being just another illness that can be treated by GPs.

    People should not be fretting over the completion of this season, it isn't going to happen. There is not even a serious prospect of next season starting in 2020 either.

  49. #149

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    Quote Originally Posted by whelk View Post
    Are you perpetually livid at all the other thousands of unfair deaths that happen around the world on a daily basis?

    This lockdown has made people mental.

    These are untimely additional deaths. Most people very sensibly accept the reasoning behind the lockdown without question, which is why HMG made it 'advisory' rather than Law.

  50. #150

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    Quote Originally Posted by Lighthouse View Post

    People need jobs. They don't need football, most people in the country wont even watch it. It's a needless risk. If someone I loved died because a single mum reopened her beauty salon to put food on her kids plates, I could cope with that from a moral POV. If they died because the Marquis of somewhere invited a hundred of his Eton chums around for a polo tournament, I'd be livid.

    That's how I see it. If it's different for you, then we'll have to agree to disagree.
    Earlier up this thread you were complaining about other people making "false equivalences" and getting jolly upset.

    But yeah, well done on a really good point about, er, a Polo tournament at Eton.

    I think we all get it. You're absolutely hysterical.

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