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Thinking about it, aren't we all technically creditors of the 2010 CVA? Us being tax payers and all that....

 

Indeed and the basis for my email to them.

 

Greetings Skatelets,

 

This is in response to your urgent plea to creditors of Portsmouth Football Club, the old company which entered administration (again) in February 2010.

 

As a tax payer, I do believe, I fall into the category of being shafted by said company and am therefore forwarding my email address to you.

 

Thanks

 

Wibble

 

 

P.S. I hope the Football League increase the points penalty for your barefaced cheek

 

 

 

Not expecting a reply but it makes me feel better

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Absolutely astonishing that they don't have these on record. They're basically saying we could never have paid them as we binned their claims and never actually had any intention of paying them either!

 

I think Hutch was on the right lines about this earlier....

 

You're missing the point trousers. I could send him that list, and so could half the people on this board. It's a public document.

 

That's not what he wants. If he has to drum up support from all the names on that list he's dead in the water.

 

So, are they trying to get around it by saying to the Football League...."look, we tried to get the 2010 creditors to agree to 2012, just like you asked, but it's not our fault that only 17% of them bothered to reply...." ?

Edited by trousers
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Absolutely astonishing that they don't have these on record. They're basically saying we could never have paid them as we binned their claims and never actually had any intention of paying them either!

 

I know this must be the umpteenth time its been said, but what the hell -one more time with feeling:

"You couldn't make it up"

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Hopefully the Football League will threaten them with the golden share and will scurry back to their sh*t hole!

 

If it was me in charge of the FL, I would say, yeah, no problem appeal away :)

 

However I would also say that the Golden share will be suspended until the appeal has been heard, then inform them that the earliest possible date for an appeal - as we're very busy at the moment! - would be January 2013.

 

That would shut them up fairly quickly I imagine.

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Absolutely astonishing that they don't have these on record. They're basically saying we could never have paid them as we binned their claims and never actually had any intention of paying them either!

 

Not wishing to rain on anyone's parade - but those creditors belong to Oldco, so there is no reason for Newco or PKF to have the contact details for them. Baker Tilly will have the list, it would not surprise me if there is even a copy knocking around Krap Nottarf somewhere, but Birch would probably have to get permission from Baker Tilly before he could use it.

 

Desperate waste of time anyway.

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Indeed and the basis for my email to them.

 

 

 

Not expecting a reply but it makes me feel better

 

Well done. No time to compose anything, so I rehased an old favorite (I will put something together on the weekend):

 

Dear Pompey (whatever comany you are this 1/4er)

 

Your urgent request poped up on my RSS feed calling for CVA 2010 creditors to get in touch, so I felt obliged to contact you, although im not sure why really after the way PFC treats its local community, business partners and sponsors.

 

( http://www.portsmouthfc.co.uk/LatestNews/news/Urgent-Plea-To-2010-Creditors-3538.aspx )

 

So, you want me to confirm I am satisfied that the club I used to love ruined my life? How about a little background...

 

I would like to point out that I was a victim in the previous Portsmouth 2010 administration, and as such I no longer run my freelance photography business as a result of the clubs collapse. A few thousand pounds may not mean much in the world of football but to a one man band like myself it is enough to ruin you. I now work in a shop, but at least I managed to keep my mortgage repayments up.

 

Now, as you are aware us creditors were pushed (I wont go as far as blackmailed) into accepting a CVA which payed a dividend of 20% of the original debt. The payment schedule was over a period of five years, however our first installment was pushed back to 2012. This was never going to solve the problems this administration had placed on my business, as a sole trader I knew it would finish me off either way and as such I simply voted with little care for myself.

 

Whilst I found it incredibly disturbing and deeply insulting to see the club continuing to sanction player purchases and associated salaries, I understand football and the nature of the beast of remaining competitive so it was something I had to accept, even though I was unable to continue my freelance work with the club.

 

To see the club go back into administration again this season was simply staggering, and discovering they had racked up more dozens of millions of debt, whilst never getting round to paying mine or any other poor souls from the creditors meetings a penny of our dividend, left me in a state of almost shock.

 

I am currently receiving correspondence from PKF regarding the 2012 administration (despite having to wind my business up), and I am told the original 2010 CVA debt will now be diluted into a 2012 CVA, and as such the 20% dividend will now be 2% of 20%.

 

What a generous offer from Mr Chainrai!

 

As a result my original debt in full will have gone from approximately £3000 to £12, and more importantly without my consent this time round. Not that I really had a say last time round, as Andronikou kept finding more debts to the point he magically produced the 75% he needed to stop HMRC liquidating the club.

 

That is absolutely scandalous and I cant help but think that if I tried to behave like that, I would be in prison by now!

 

As I have mentioned, I had to wind my business (and dreams) up so the debts owed to me are irrelevant what ever percentage they finally decide this time round.

 

 

So thats my background. Now I will consider your question again, am I in favour of CVA MKI being diluted into CVA MKII without my consent?

 

Let me highlight the financial consideration again: £3000 * 20% * 2% = £12 (with no consent)

 

How about you go and choke. You can shove your CVA and stick your proposals on an expensive trip to Gibraltar. My life is in ruins because of your behaviour, I want to see PFC struck right down to the lowest level of the game, only then will I continue to support the club I formerly loved that destroyed everything I had built up.

 

I sincerely hope you can understand quite how much distress this has cause myself and my family.

 

Regards

 

Paul Gentry

 

PFC fan 1965 - 2010

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TB has now lowered himself to feed from the sewer pipe like the rest of them. There he is lying on his back with his mouth open waiting to feed on the next log that falls his way. At no time does he consider the pain that 'great club' has inflicted on the creditors. For every free tour they have on a fan, they have begged, cheated hundreds more and the tax payer on their way to the top table.I suspect many of the decent Pompey fans squirm at the begging letter today and will hate the fact that such an act is being played out in the name of their club.

I am always suspicious of the actions of these people and perhaps Trousers is correct that they are hoping to hoodwink the FL.

I thought when we were given our points penalty that we were told we would not get our golden share or a bigger penalty if we appealed.

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How will they vet the validity of anyone emailing them if they don't know who the creditors are in the first place? Can't they simply ask Baker Tilly for a list....?

 

My first thought too - what kind of company doesn't have a list of it's creditors.....? Oh

 

All right what kind of dodgy administration experts would not be able to provide it....? Ah, beginning to see the problems here...some will have been lost, inflated, hidden....what a farking shambles!

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TB has now lowered himself to feed from the sewer pipe like the rest of them. There he is lying on his back with his mouth open waiting to feed on the next log that falls his way. At no time does he consider the pain that 'great club' has inflicted on the creditors. For every free tour they have on a fan, they have begged, cheated hundreds more and the tax payer on their way to the top table.I suspect many of the decent Pompey fans squirm at the begging letter today and will hate the fact that such an act is being played out in the name of their club.

I am always suspicious of the actions of these people and perhaps Trousers is correct that they are hoping to hoodwink the FL.

I thought when we were given our points penalty that we were told we would not get our golden share or a bigger penalty if we appealed.

 

They are desperate. Desperation leads to the utter abandoning of any residual moral scruples (not that they appear to have many left)

Edited by Waterside.saint
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Some interesting parallels in this blog about the head-in-sand mentality of Rangers fans....

 

http://oldpesky.blogspot.co.uk/2012/07/tae-see-oursels-as-others-see-us.html?spref=tw

 

In recent months vociferous supporters of Rangers Football Club have continually refused to listen to the opinions of others, claiming everyone was against them and their collapse was part of some dastardly Timmy plot orchestrated by Celtic’s Peter Lawwell.

 

This kind of outlook smacks of the spoilt child syndrome where everyone is to blame but themselves.

 

Instead of opening up to outside opinions during their time of need they closed ranks, which history shows, has always been the Rangers way.

 

In the past all Rangers problems, if and when any occurred, were dealt with in-house, away from prying eyes. If the club made any statement it was always just to confirm the matter was being dealt with, and that was that.

 

There was a culture of not speaking about or criticizing the club in public.

 

The club was always right, no matter what.

 

Anyone who said anything against Rangers, no matter how true, was labeled as anti-Rangers.

 

That still is the Rangers way.

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Hush my friend....you'll give the game away if you're not careful.... ;)

 

Under no circumstances would I urge you to send that link to the requested email address and copy in the Football League.

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E-mail them.

 

In relation to your plea for creditors to come forward, always happy to help – here’s the list.

http://www.uhy-uk.com/assets/media/download/turnaround-and-recovery/PFC%20CVA%2028th%20May%20Final2.pdf

 

Hopefully you can now contact them all before the weekend and see if they are happy to receive 0.04p in the pound.

 

Good luck for fielding a competitive team next season.

 

 

Best Wishes

 

Andysstuff

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Does it really matter? Not sure what good it will do. If you were owed £10,000 and a company ends up paying you £40 would you be happy to support them in a case of removing a points deduction?

 

It's pure and simple desperation. Shows how close to the endgame they are.

 

And as Matthew Le God has said, if it were me I would have only one response; F**k you. Remember though, that the bulk of creditors are probably also run by Skates and may be a little more lenient.

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Hush my friend....you'll give the game away if you're not careful.... ;)

 

Under no circumstances would I urge you to send that link to the requested email address and copy in the Football League.

Too late I did that over an hour and a half ago....and i tweeted the link to them also.

no bloody excuse now I'm afraid.

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It's pure and simple desperation. Shows how close to the endgame they are.

 

And as Matthew Le God has said, if it were me I would have only one response; F**k you. Remember though, that the bulk of creditors are probably also run by Skates and may be a little more lenient.

 

Surely to have any chance of removing the deduction they would need 100% support from the 2010 creditors. I can't see HMRC being happy with today's plea for help.

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MLG you have to realise that they only have the business adresses of all the companies that they have put under. Many of the poor s*ds have lost their livelyhoods due to the theft by the oldco skates and consequently the adresses are now invalid and this is the reason TB is begging for them to contact him. Personally I think the league should ensure 100% agreement from all creditors before any points deductions is reversed.

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Surely to have any chance of removing the deduction they would need 100% support from the 2010 creditors. I can't see HMRC being happy with today's plea for help.

 

And their biggest problem is going to be 50% of the creditors were made up by AA*, they've not even got a hope of getting a majority of them in favour.

 

 

 

 

 

 

*alledgedly

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ok whats going on now! trying to get back their 10 points?

 

http://www.portsmouthfc.co.uk/LatestNews/news/Urgent-Plea-To-2010-Creditors-3538.aspx

 

This is an urgent plea to creditors of Portsmouth City Football Club Ltd, the old company which entered administration in February 2010.

 

The club need all such creditors to contact us with names, addresses and email addresses immediately as a matter of great importance.

 

Time is of the essence as the fight goes on to save this great football club with 114 years of glorious history behind it.

 

2010 creditors are vital to the process.

 

We need these details so that we can contact all 2010 creditors, inviting you to decide whether you are in favour of or opposed to the latest CVA proposal approved in June 2012 in order that we can lobby The Football League to withdraw the 10 point deduction.

 

 

Surely they should have all this info on record?

 

 

Ive sent my reply by E-Mail but do not expect any reply

Sir

I am a UK tax payer and as such a crediter of your football club. I am absolutely disgusted with the way that Portsmouth Football club has acted. You have paid vast salaries to players, often outbidding revial clubs in the process. At the time you did not have the funds to afford to do this and as such ran up bill of £130million and then went on to do the same again.

 

I understand that you wish for us 'creditors' to say how wonderful that we think your actions were. I believe that your actions were vile and probably criminal.

 

Please feel free to quote me in your submission to the football authorities

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I 'CC the FL with all my emails.

 

 

 

Dear Trevor and PFC

 

Further to you 'Urgent Plea To 2010 Creditors'

 

To help you proceed with your plans to "lobby The Football League" , please find attached link from the administrator of CVA MK1.

 

Page 79 I believe is the start of the mammoth creditors list! In fact, rather than a desperate and rather suspicious 'plea', simply googling 'pfc cva 2010' will find this document for you... four or five down on page one!

 

This is the original CVA MK1 which subsequently was diluted into CVA MK2, without creditor approval, not a penny was ever paid.

 

http://www.uhy-uk.com/assets/media/d...y%20Final2.pdf

 

http://www.portsmouthfc.co.uk/LatestNews/news/Urgent-Plea-To-2010-Creditors-3538.aspx

 

What on earth you feel you have to appeal against is beyond me. Unless you wish to pay the £130m + £50m back, which included around £40m of tax payers money (let alone the charities) - then I commend you.

 

Kindest Regards

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Correct me if i'm wrong, but of the OldCo creditors wrapped up in to the one neat bundle managed by Baker Tilley isn't HMRC by far the lion's share, as all the football creditors are not included in that (even though they got to vote)?

 

Does anyone have an idea of how much?

 

i.e. how much is the BT amount worth in total, and what was HMRC's claim?

 

Presumably if they are going to try and set up some sort of crazy secondary CVA vote, then HMRC will wipe the floor with them?

 

And a further thought - if they do go ahead with this, wouldn't it effectively be an admission that the oldco/newco ploy was in fact just a ruse to work around insolvency legislation, and that the CVA1 creditors should still really be considered creditors of the newco after all?

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I'm pretty sure I can hear a dull thud from the east... *thud, thud, thud*

 

No, it's not Avram's betty swollocks thumping against the pert bottom of a Thai masseuse, oh no... it's better than that. It's sound of hammer against nail. Nail against coffin. My word, there's an abundance of nails already dutifully banged in and now there is only a few to go. Now we just need to stuff this vile, stinking football club into it's final resting place and we'll have ourselves a rap, ladies and gentlemen.

 

It appears TB's latest publicity stunt is purely a futile gesture to placate a very dim audience. Sure, a few more of woken up and subsequently identified the steaming hot cup of Joe but there is a still a few around who refuse to acknowledge blame, let alone the seriousness of the situation.

 

Another pointless charade, much like the trialists trip to Spain.

 

In a way, the actions of the club remind me of someone in a desperate situation telling you that everything really is OK when in reality, it's not. It really, seriously is not. Through the thinly-veiled act, you can see them squirming for a way out, praying that you buy their tall-tales and fantasies.

 

"I'll pay you tomorrow, I promise". Another empty, fruitless plea.

 

It's time for the dealer(s) to cock the revolver and put it to the forehead of this worthless sack of misery... and pull the trigger.

 

The almost lifeless body of football's biggest junkie is in it's final throes. I believe it's made one of it's last desperate pleas, but the dealer(s) not having any of it.

 

I hope I wake up soon and find what little brains this absurd and tiresome entity has painted across the pavement of a dark alley. That said, I hope they can survive long enough so that as they lie there in a gutter and the turds nestle beside them, they have a little time to think about their disgraceful actions.

 

WTFILN

Edited by Crab Lungs
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MLG you have to realise that they only have the business adresses of all the companies that they have put under. Many of the poor s*ds have lost their livelyhoods due to the theft by the oldco skates and consequently the adresses are now invalid and this is the reason TB is begging for them to contact him. Personally I think the league should ensure 100% agreement from all creditors before any points deductions is reversed.

 

I'd like to add just one caveat. The result is declared by value of debt, prior to the 2010 Administration.

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A shocking read of pages and pages of individuals and business they are still shafting - yet happy to up their spin by offering players more and more and more wages

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Have they appealed in time ? Have they appealed at all or are they just "playing the media" again ?

 

The nearest I can find in the FL rules is as follows (although nothing fits the Cheats exactly):-

 

The statement from the FL last week (12th) said

http://www.football-league.co.uk/footballleaguenews/20120712/league-board-makes-membership-offer-to-portsmouth_2293334_2847729

The Football League Board has absolute discretion as to whether to admit any new company as a member of The League. In doing so, it has to strike a balance between giving a club another chance and the effect this has on sporting competition between clubs. Through its Insolvency Policy.......

 

Now the Insolvency Policy is covered in Section 3 of the rules under "12.3 Sporting Sanctions" although most of it talks about "going into Admin", rather than the Cheats fixing the 1st CVA. However it does mention an Appeal process.

http://www.football-league.co.uk/regulations/20120702/section-3-the-league_2293633_2125717

12.3.10 A Club may appeal:

(a) against a decision of the Board to impose a points deduction arising from an Insolvency Event of a Group Undertaking under Regulation 12.3.2; and/or

....

12.3.12 Any Appeal must be in writing and be received by The League at its registered office no later than 7 days after The League serves the Notice. The Appeal must contain a statement setting out the grounds of appeal and provide copies of any documentation upon which the Club intends to rely in support of the Appeal.

12.3.13 The Club must also lodge with the Executive, at the same time as the Appeal, a deposit of £5,000 in respect of the costs of the Appeal.

 

So if they are covered by the "7 day" appeal notice they should have put their appeal in today with "copies of any documenation", yet they only ask for the names of the creditors from the 1st CVA today ?

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Have they appealed in time ? Have they appealed at all or are they just "playing the media" again ?

 

The nearest I can find in the FL rules is as follows (although nothing fits the Cheats exactly):-

 

The statement from the FL last week (12th) said

http://www.football-league.co.uk/footballleaguenews/20120712/league-board-makes-membership-offer-to-portsmouth_2293334_2847729

 

 

Now the Insolvency Policy is covered in Section 3 of the rules under "12.3 Sporting Sanctions" although most of it talks about "going into Admin", rather than the Cheats fixing the 1st CVA. However it does mention an Appeal process.

http://www.football-league.co.uk/regulations/20120702/section-3-the-league_2293633_2125717

 

 

So if they are covered by the "7 day" appeal notice they should have put their appeal in today with "copies of any documenation", yet they only ask for the names of the creditors from the 1st CVA today ?

 

Perhaps we have been far too generous in our recording of the travails of the fish.

 

Methinks we should have simply adopted the dodgy referee song from the off.

 

Seeing as TB was formerly the head of a football club, and was rumoured to be in line for a return to football at SMS with one of the many tyre kicking bids back in the day, think we dodged a bullet there.

 

Anyways, I'll head off to bed humming

 

You don't know what you're doing...........

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