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But it has to be with their consent - hence no Howard or McLeod.

 

Or with the agreement of the players to actually sign and get paid a pittance compared to what they were enticed with, which could also explain it.

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The trouble is, I'm sure the Trust still see it as a fallback option rather than the first-choice option. Clinging onto the old carcass won't solve any problems in the long run. The clever move for the Trust now would be to advise Birch to put the old club to sleep and start a new one but the fans have never seen it that way so I can't see them taking the initiative on this one.

 

But, of course, if/when it does happen I'm sure we'll hear someone declare "it's what we really wanted all along"...

 

Already got one of them on Pat from Poole's Facebook wall, twinned with the phrase "enjoy getting thrashed every week in the PL".

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I've been having a look around to see if there's any detail to the FL Transfer Embargo.

 

Coventry had one for not submitting accounts in time http://www.football-league.co.uk/championship/news/20120302/transfer-embargo-for-sky-blues_2293322_2630650 which according to the FL site "temporarily banned from any activity in the transfer market."

Birmingham the same : "consequently are now banned from any activity in the transfer marker until further notice" http://www.football-league.co.uk/championship/news/20120302/birmingham-under-transfer-embargo_2293322_2630756

 

The FL Rules indicate the right to "81.2.13 impose an embargo on registration of Players;" http://www.football-league.co.uk/regulations/20110629/section-8-offences-inquiries-commissions-disputes-and-appeals_2293633_2125735 . That's REGISTRATION, rather than transfer, or signing. That would prevent any players from being registered, whether they were unemployed, non-contract, player/coaches or whatever.

 

I'm not sure there's a better way of an unequivocal embargo on ALL players than preventing any players from registering no matter their previous status.

 

None of this answers how they've managed to sign two players whilst under embargo.

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Oh, and if you fancy a laugh, the FL's "Owners' and Directors' Test" is here : http://www.football-league.co.uk/regulations/20110629/appendix-4_2293633_2128219

 

'Disqualifying Condition' means all or any of the following:

(a) either directly or indirectly being involved in, or having the power to determine or influence, the management or administration of another Club or Premier League Club unless a dispensation in respect of the same has been granted by the Board in accordance with Regulation 91;

(b) either directly or indirectly holding or acquiring any Significant Interest in a Club while at the same time either directly or indirectly holding any interest in any class of shares or securities of another Club unless a dispensation in respect of the same has been granted by the Board in accordance with Regulation 91;

© being subject to a suspension or ban, whether directly (for example a sanction against the individual in particular) or indirectly (for example a direction to persons subject to the jurisdiction of the Sports Governing Body that they should not employ, contract with or otherwise engage or retain the services of, any individual), from involvement in the administration of a sport by a Sports Governing Body or such other similar forms of disqualification as may operate from time to time;

(d) being found to have breached (irrespective of any sentence actually imposed), or having admitted breaching (irrespective of whether disciplinary proceedings were brought or not) at any time:

(i) Rule E8 of the Rules of the Football Association (as amended, or replaced from time to time); and/or

(ii) any other rules in force from time to time in relation to the prohibition on betting on football matches played in England and Wales;

(e) having an unspent conviction (or where the Rehabilitation of Offenders Act 1974 does not apply for any reason, having a conviction within the period that would have rendered that conviction unspent had the provisions of that Act applied) for any offence (including any attempt to commit the same) that can reasonably be considered to fall within the category of:

(i) an offence involving a Dishonest Act;

(ii) corruption;

(iii) perverting the course of justice;

(iv) committing a serious breach of any requirement under the 1985 Act or 2006 Act;

(v) dishonestly receiving a programme broadcast from within the UK with intent to avoid payment under Section 297 of the Copyright, Designs and Patents Act 1988;

(vi) admitting spectators to watch a football match at unlicensed premises under Section 9 of the Football Spectators Act 1989;

(vii) ticket touting under Section 166 of the Criminal Justice and Public Order Act 1994;

(viii) conspiracy to commit any of the offences set out in paragraphs (i) to (iv) above; or

(ix) any conviction for a like offence to any of the above offences by a competent court having jurisdiction outside England and Wales,

whether such conviction occurred prior to or after 10th March 2005 (being the date of implementation of this Test).

(f) being subject to a banning order in accordance with Schedule 1 of the Football Spectators Act 2000;

(g) being a Registered Offender (as defined in this Appendix 4);

(h) having an unspent conviction (or where the Rehabilitation of Offenders Act 1975 does not apply for any reason, having a conviction within the period that would have rendered that conviction unspent had the provisions of that Act applied) for any offence anywhere in the World (including any attempt to commit the same) where such conviction has resulted in a sentence of at least 12 months' imprisonment but for the avoidance of doubt, not a suspended jail sentence unless that sentence is subsequently activated for a period of at least 12 months for whatever reason (irrespective of whether such conviction occurred prior to or after 10th March 2005 (being the date of implementation of this Test));

(i) being subject to a disqualification order as a director under the Company Directors Disqualification Act 1986 (as amended), or being subject to the terms of an undertaking given to the Secretary of State under that act, unless a Court of competent jurisdiction makes an order under that Act permitting an appointment as Director of a Club;

(j) being subject to any form of suspension, disqualification or striking-off by a professional body including, by way of example and without limitation, The Law Society, Bar Council or the Institute of Chartered Accountants, or any other equivalent body or bodies in any jurisdiction throughout the World and whether that suspension, disqualification or striking off is direct or indirect (for example a direction to Persons subject to the jurisdiction of the professional body that they should not employ, contract with or otherwise engage or retain the services of any individual);

(k) being subject to an Individual Voluntary Arrangement (in accordance with the provisions of Part VIII of the Insolvency Act);

(l) being subject to a Bankruptcy Order, Interim Bankruptcy Restriction Order or a Bankruptcy Restriction Order; and

(m) being a Club Director of:

(i) at least two Football Clubs that have each been subject to or suffered unconnected Insolvency Events;

(ii) one Football Club that has been subject to or suffered two unconnected Insolvency Events, on or after the 11th June 2004). For the purposes of this definition of Disqualifying Condition:

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This bit might be relevant :

 

4 Resignation from Membership

 

4.1 A Club may only resign from membership of The League at the end of a Season. Any Club wishing to resign from membership of The League otherwise than by reason of promotion to The Premier League or relegation to The Football Conference shall give provisional notice of its intention to do so by 1 January in the year concerned and shall confirm its resignation by 1 April in that year.

 

4.2 Any Club which is in breach of the provisions of this Regulation shall on demand indemnify The League against all losses, damages, liabilities, costs or expenses suffered or incurred by The League which result directly or indirectly from such breach including, but without prejudice to the generality of the foregoing, any loss of income or profits from any sponsorship or other commercial agreement or arrangement.

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This bit might be relevant :

 

4 Resignation from Membership

 

4.1 A Club may only resign from membership of The League at the end of a Season. Any Club wishing to resign from membership of The League otherwise than by reason of promotion to The Premier League or relegation to The Football Conference shall give provisional notice of its intention to do so by 1 January in the year concerned and shall confirm its resignation by 1 April in that year.

 

4.2 Any Club which is in breach of the provisions of this Regulation shall on demand indemnify The League against all losses, damages, liabilities, costs or expenses suffered or incurred by The League which result directly or indirectly from such breach including, but without prejudice to the generality of the foregoing, any loss of income or profits from any sponsorship or other commercial agreement or arrangement.

 

As they apparently do not, currently, hold a golden share, are they members ?

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This bit might be relevant :

 

4.2 Any Club which is in breach of the provisions of this Regulation shall on demand indemnify The League against all losses, damages, liabilities, costs or expenses suffered or incurred by The League which result directly or indirectly from such breach including, but without prejudice to the generality of the foregoing, any loss of income or profits from any sponsorship or other commercial agreement or arrangement.

 

Oops - that could spunk another million quid.

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And a bit about teams not completing the season... just in case it's relevant ;) which confirms all the stuff said about them just expunging records and carrying on with one fewer club.

http://www.football-league.co.uk/regulations/20120702/section-3-the-league_2293633_2125717#11

 

12.2 Cessation of membership. If a Club (or Clubs) ceases to be a member of The League for any reason (including, without limitation, pursuant to Article 4 of the Articles of Association or by way of relegation or expulsion for disciplinary reasons):

 

12.2.1 during any Normal Playing Season, its playing record shall be expunged and the number of relegation places from the relevant Division for that Season shall be reduced by the number of Clubs ceasing to be members;

 

12.2.2 during the period between the end of the Normal Playing Season and the conclusion of the last Play-Off Match for that Season, its playing record shall not be expunged but the number of relegation places from the relevant Division for that Season shall be reduced by the number of Clubs ceasing to be members; or

 

12.2.3 during the period between the conclusion of the last Play-Off Match and the start of the following Season, its playing record shall not be expunged but the number of relegation places from the Division in which a Club would have played but for its cessation of membership, shall be reduced by the number of Clubs ceasing to be members and, during that Season, the relevant Division shall operate with a reduced number of Clubs.

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As they apparently do not, currently, hold a golden share, are they members ?

 

I believe they are not - I'm just getting to that bit though... Sporting Sanctions and insolvency... couple of edits to reduce the post size but nothing vital.

 

12.3 Sporting Sanctions

 

Introduction

 

The following rule provides for how sporting sanctions will be applied to Clubs when the Club, or any Group Undertaking, becomes subject to or suffers an Insolvency Event, and also makes provision for an appeals mechanism, but only on the grounds of 'Force Majeure'.

 

By way of clarification the following are identified as circumstances which it is intended would be embraced under the category of 'Force Majeure'. It is intended that this appeals process should be limited to circumstances which are deemed unforeseeable and unavoidable. In all these examples, each case would have to be considered on its own merits:

 

Club Income: In the event that a club suffers material adverse effects upon the loss of anticipated income streams which mean that it is unable to meet its liabilities as and when they fall due. This could only be grounds for appeal, however, if the loss occurs during the currency of a binding agreement (i.e. not upon expiry).

 

Default by another Club: In circumstances where an insolvency event is caused by the default of another football club. Once again, however, for this to constitute legitimate grounds for appeal, the outstanding payments must be significant enough to have had a material and adverse effect upon the Club.

 

12.3.1 If any Club becomes subject to or suffers an Insolvency Event, that Club shall be deducted 10 points.

 

12.3.2 If a Group Undertaking of a Club becomes subject to or suffers an Insolvency Event, then the Board shall have the power to impose upon the Club a deduction of 10 points scored or to be scored in the League Competition. In exercising this power the Board shall have regard to all the circumstances of the case and to:

 

(a) such of the provisions of the Insolvency Act, the Competition Act 1998 and the Enterprise Act 2002 as are relevant and then in force;

(b) the need to protect the integrity and continuity of the League Competition;

© the reputation of The League and the need to promote the game of association football generally; and

(d) the relationship between the Club and the Group Undertaking.

 

12.3.3 Subject to the provisions of Regulation 12.3.4 below, where the Club becomes subject to or suffers an Insolvency Event, or the Board impose a deduction in accordance with Regulation 12.3.2:

...the stuff we know about cut-off dates.

 

12.3.4 Where the circumstances set out in Regulation 12.3.3(b) apply and at the end of that Season, having regard to the number of championship points awarded (ignoring any potential deduction):

 

(a) the Club would be relegated in accordance with Regulation 10.1.2(b) or 7.3, the points deduction will apply in the next following Season (including in the Football Conference if appropriate); or

(b) the Club would not be relegated as aforesaid, the points deduction will apply in that Season and Regulation 10.1.2(b) or 7.3 will then apply (if appropriate) following imposition of the points deduction.

 

12.3.5 For the avoidance of doubt, where a Club and/or Group Undertaking is subject to more than one of the procedures in Regulation 12.3.1 above during a process of compromising creditors (for example Administration followed by a Company Voluntary Arrangement), the Club shall only be deducted one set of 10 points, such deduction to apply with effect from the first Insolvency Event.

 

12.3.6 If:

(a) any club relegated to The League from The Premier League (in accordance with the Rules of The Premier League) (a 'Relegated Club') whilst it was a member of The Premier League became subject to or suffered an Insolvency Event at any time following the end of the season (as defined in the Rules of The Premier League) but before the Relegated Club becomes a member of The League, then that Relegated Club, upon being accepted as a member of The League in accordance with Regulations 7.4 and 10.1 shall suffer a deduction of 10 points in the League Competition, such points deduction to apply in respect of the following Season such that the Club starts that Season in The Championship on minus 10 points;

 

(b) any Group Undertaking of a Relegated Club, whilst the Relegated Club was a member of The Premier League, became subject to or suffered an Insolvency Event at any time following the end of the season (season being as defined in the Rules of The Premier League) but before the Relegated Club becomes a member of The League, then the Board shall have the power to impose upon that Relegated Club, upon being accepted as a member of The League in accordance with Regulations 7.4 and 10.1, a deduction of 10 points in the League Competition. In exercising this power the Board shall have regard to all the circumstances of the case and the matters set out in Regulation 12.3.2. Where the Board impose a deduction in accordance with this Regulation, the Relegated Club shall suffer a deduction of 10 points in the League Competition, such points deduction to apply in respect of the following Season such that the Club starts that Season in The Championship on minus 10 points.

 

12.3.7

Some stuff about coming from the Conference in Admin...

 

12.3.8 For the purpose of this Regulation 12.3:

(a) where an Insolvency Event is taken or suffered other than on a Business Day (as defined by the Insolvency Rules 1986 as amended from time to time) then for the purposes of determining the timing of any points deduction only the Insolvency Event will be deemed to have occurred on the immediately preceding Business Day; and

 

(b) if a Company Voluntary Arrangement is approved, then approval of that CVA shall be deemed to have been given at the date of the first meeting of creditors called to consider that CVA, and not the date of any adjourned meeting of creditors or the meeting of shareholders.

 

12.3.9 The League shall serve the Club with written notice of the points deduction (the 'Notice'). Article 82 shall apply as to the timing of receipt of such Notice.

 

12.3.10 A Club may appeal:

 

(a) against a decision of the Board to impose a points deduction arising from an Insolvency Event of a Group Undertaking under Regulation 12.3.2; and/or

(b) against an automatic deduction of points imposed where a Club, Premier League club or Football Conference Club suffers an Insolvency Event under Regulations 12.3.1, 12.3.6 or 12.3.7 respectively, but only on the ground that the relevant Insolvency Event(s) arose solely as a result of a Force Majeure event ('Appeal').

12.3.11 For the purposes of this Regulation 12.3, a 'Force Majeure' event shall be an event that, having regard to all of the circumstances, was caused by and resulted directly from circumstances, other than normal business risks, over which the Club and/or Group Undertaking (as the case may be) could not reasonably be expected to have control and its Officials had used all due diligence to avoid the happening of that event.

12.3.12 Any Appeal must be in writing and be received by The League at its registered office no later than 7 days after The League serves the Notice. The Appeal must contain a statement setting out the grounds of appeal and provide copies of any documentation upon which the Club intends to rely in support of the Appeal.

12.3.13 The Club must also lodge with the Executive, at the same time as the Appeal, a deposit of £5,000 in respect of the costs of the Appeal.

12.3.14 Upon receipt of the Appeal the Executive shall refer the matter to a Sporting Sanctions Appeal Panel (the 'SSAP') by delivering to the Chartered Institute of Arbitrators (or such other body as the Board may from time to time determine) five copies of the Appeal documents.

12.3.15 The SSAP shall consist of three Arbitrators, one of whom must be a barrister of at least 5 years call who will act as Chairman of the SSAP, each to be appointed by the Chartered Institute of Arbitrators (or such other body as the Board may from time to time determine).

12.3.16 The League shall, immediately upon receipt of the Appeal, instruct a firm of independent accountants to carry out a review of the activities of the Club and/or any Group Undertaking for the purposes of preparing an independent report into the circumstances surrounding and leading up to the relevant Insolvency Event(s). The Club shall meet the costs of preparation of that report in any event. The report shall be provided to the Club, the SSAP and The League. The SSAP shall take into account the contents of that report when determining whether the insolvency proceedings arose solely as a result of a Force Majeure event.

12.3.17 Both the Club and The League shall be entitled to make representations to the SSAP. The SSAP shall hear any appeal within 21 days of the lodgement of the Appeal.

12.3.18 The Club shall bear the burden of proof in relation to the matters set out in the Appeal on the balance of probabilities.

 

12.3.19 The SSAP shall have the power to:

(a) confirm the deduction of ten points; or

(b) set aside the deduction of ten points and substitute a deduction of such lower number of points as it shall deem appropriate; or

© order that there shall be no sanction at all.

 

12.3.20 The decision of the SSAP shall be final and binding. If the members of the SSAP are not unanimous the decision of the majority of them shall prevail. The SSAP shall give written reasons for its decision.

 

12.3.21 Any costs incurred by any party in proceedings brought before the SSAP shall be met by the Club in any event and shall be considered as a sum due to The League for the purposes of Article 80.

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What would be REALLY stupid would be if they wasted all their money on the current terminally ill club and had nothing left for a phoenix club.

 

This.

 

It really is time for Pompey fans to say goodbye to this terminal basket-case of a club. This situation now needs to be quickly and smoothly put out of its misery. Start again 2013/14 (too late for this season)

 

It is OVER....

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So let me just make sure I've got this right. Today's plan is that eight ex-players who have now left the club should donate double the amount pledged by ALL the fans, ALL the wannabe associate directors AND ALL the Ultra High Net Worth individuals combined.

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This.

 

It really is time for Pompey fans to say goodbye to this terminal basket-case of a club. This situation now needs to be quickly and smoothly put out of its misery. Start again 2013/14 (too late for this season)

 

It is OVER....

 

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So let me just make sure I've got this right. Today's plan is that eight ex-players who have now left the club should donate double the amount pledged by ALL the fans, ALL the wannabe associate directors AND ALL the Ultra High Net Worth individuals combined.

 

You neglected to mention the local council, but yes that's the attractive proposition they will be selling :lol:

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Too many questions to be able to say.

 

1) Does the fact that they now only have 18 year olds on the books mean that they are operating at break even? It so then TB could continue to run the club in Admin allowing more time to reach a solution.

 

2) How much will Chinny actually accept to release his charge on FP? If it is unrealistic TB could apply to court to sell it to somebody else at a realisic (or only slightly inflatated) valuation. This will take time though.

 

3) Can the trust raise the funds? I doubt it.

 

4) Might a 3rd party enter negotiations? Probably unlikely unless they are now able to trade at break even.

 

IMO Q1 is the most important. If they are now abel to operate at break even (PP covering deferals) then they have the time to reach a solution. If not liquidation probably becomes the most likely outcome.

 

All speculation obviously. Without knowing details none of us can make a realistic assessment.

 

Very good points.

 

Given the ejection of the old players, their outgoings have clearly gone down a lot. The wages of the former youth team are probably significantly less than Chainrai's budget of £1.5m. The difficulty is knowing about the income, no new kit to sell, fewer ticket sales at lower prices etc. Football cashflow is also notoriously 'lumpy' so there may be short term problems with suppliers not advancing credit.

 

However, it seems a reasonable assumption that the club can continue running at break even, unless they start getting more players. The question then becomes, how long can TB reasonably continue to run the club in administration? I can see this dragging on for weeks, if not months.

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How the hell did they manage to sort themselves out with a new set of kit for yesterday's match anyway ? All blue with a white v-neck and shirt collar, no sponsor... (Jobsite will be pleased, after renewing the deal).

 

http://www.pafc.co.uk/news/article/report-argyle-3-portsmouth-0-312383.aspx

 

As I pointed out yesterday, they also cost themselves £10 in shirt printing costs by insisting on high squad numbers instead of 1-11. ;)

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Very good points.

 

Given the ejection of the old players, their outgoings have clearly gone down a lot. The wages of the former youth team are probably significantly less than Chainrai's budget of £1.5m. The difficulty is knowing about the income, no new kit to sell, fewer ticket sales at lower prices etc. Football cashflow is also notoriously 'lumpy' so there may be short term problems with suppliers not advancing credit.

 

However, it seems a reasonable assumption that the club can continue running at break even, unless they start getting more players. The question then becomes, how long can TB reasonably continue to run the club in administration? I can see this dragging on for weeks, if not months.

 

Wow, we could even get to the mighty 1500 pages.

 

Remember the days when we didn't think we'd get as far as 100?

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Very good points.

 

Given the ejection of the old players, their outgoings have clearly gone down a lot. The wages of the former youth team are probably significantly less than Chainrai's budget of £1.5m. The difficulty is knowing about the income, no new kit to sell, fewer ticket sales at lower prices etc. Football cashflow is also notoriously 'lumpy' so there may be short term problems with suppliers not advancing credit.

 

However, it seems a reasonable assumption that the club can continue running at break even, unless they start getting more players. The question then becomes, how long can TB reasonably continue to run the club in administration? I can see this dragging on for weeks, if not months.

 

A question for those in the know about the insolvency profession.

 

What would stop TB (or any administrator) in a position like this from carrying on for as long as he likes and continuing to take fees?

 

Do the fees only get paid at the completion of administration? I.e. liquidation or sale? If that were the case it would put an absolute clock on how long this can continue for.

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I'm guessing that TB will set them a deadline to prove they have the ££ deposited as opposed to pledged before moving ahead with a sale.

 

Can't get past the fact that there is no PP left, that it's been used to pay off the old players. To me that totally fu.ck up their bid as there is no way that the FL will allow them to renege of those agreements & no way Kanu or TBH will write it off.

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Just can't see how their Trust bid can or will work. The amount Birch has negotiated with players (probably with Chanrai in mind) is for £4m-£6m more than the Trust have in their business plan!!!

 

Cant see them raising the difference, nor can I see it being possible to negotiate a further compromise from the players in time to satisfy the powers that be (even if potential liquidation might be focussing a few players minds).

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As I have said previously I have nothing but respect for their (PST) efforts to save their club, but when I saw this all I could see was a carry on film title. I can see it now, one of those by the pier versions with Babbs and Sid Jams laughing...at them

 

386819_10150950727171511_122134769_n.jpg

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As I have said previously I have nothing but respect for their (PST) efforts to save their club, but when I saw this all I could see was a carry on film title. I can see it now, one of those by the pier versions with Babbs and Sid Jams laughing...at them

 

386819_10150950727171511_122134769_n.jpg

 

The only way that will work is liquidation.

 

Start afresh, make it theirs from the bottom up. That will however require short/medium term pain for long term 'gain.'

 

Disclaimer: 'Gain' refers to the existence of a Portsmouth football club in the football league, not a european or premiership force, just a nationally competing club under their control. And even then, only after a decade of fightback. And no, they'll never go for that; They want it all and they want it now!!

 

WTFILN?

Edited by Colinjb
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Rarely post on here - there's little time to take a breather from laughing at the excellent efforts of others to be honest. Anyway, some have mentioned BC liquidating the club, but surely it has nothing to do with BC? Surely liquidation is the sole decision of the Administrator who can pull the plug anytime he sees fit - i.e. when the money runs out???

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